Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition

[Pavl3n]

It highlights our decline since 2015.

And it's painful to watch. We've been so reactive, without a clear plan on how to get back to winning ways.
I suppose it's necessary to go through such poor spell, hiring and firing managers in order to realize bringing them for the short term quick fix is not going to cut it.
I really hope Ed backs Ole's ideas. Not financially primarily, but stand by his plan on how to revive the team.

 

[Winrar]

I remember the 70's and 80's and when we were relegated. Yes these times feel just as bad, but give Ole an Phelan a chance to get rid of the deadwood and bring in their own players, then Judge.

Fergie had a huge job when he came in 1986 getting rid of the deadwood, but he DONE it and we blossomed.

Do think solskjaer and phelan deserve a chance based on the excellent form we showed after they got put in charge, since it shows that they can get us to have a good run of form with good football. I’m just watching to see if they can mend the deficiencies we have with shrewd signings so we can play some good football if they are given chance to fix our deficiencies.

 

[Rednotdead]

Woodward has presided over the total destruction of the playing side of our club ever since Fergie retired. Things have got worse instead of better and it's all under his direction. The longer he remains involved in this decision making position, the further we will fall.

 

[RedPed]

Woodward has presided over the total destruction of the playing side of our club ever since Fergie retired. Things have got worse instead of better and it's all under his direction. The longer he remains involved in this decision making position, the further we will fall.

Go to most of the previous transfer threads and you will see that Woodward was hailed a genius many times. Nearly all of the signings were met with approval. It's so easy to criticize after they didn't work out but anybody saying they didn't expect the signings to be successful are lying to themselves. Nobody would be banging on about Sanchez's wages if he was scoring goals for fun. We nearly turned it around when OGS came on board in December. So how Woodward is to blame for the post PSG implosion is baffling. This window is probably going to be the most important post Fergus so I'm interested to see how the Woodward/Solskjaer era will begin.

 

[fallengt]

Liverpool at least tried to modernize football with Moneyball and shit although they partly failed.
Here at United Woodward and his board been going circle since promotion, doing predictable stuff without any long term plan whatsoever to get club back on track.
LvG, Mourinho, even Ole were flavor of the month. Anyone could make that decision. For a CEO of billions pound company you'd expect him to be different but Woodward did exactly what fans told him to.

Been 7 years and we still talk about this "rebuild" , why hasn't it started already? Oppo fans would call it "laughing stock" not rebuild. We're in exact same spot as City was in their first few years when Mansour took over. Clueless

 

[Rednotdead]

Go to most of the previous transfer threads and you will see that Woodward was hailed a genius many times. Nearly all of the signings were met with approval. It's so easy to criticize after they didn't work out but anybody saying they didn't expect the signings to be successful are lying to themselves. Nobody would be banging on about Sanchez's wages if he was scoring goals for fun. We nearly turned it around when OGS came on board in December. So how Woodward is to blame for the post PSG implosion is baffling. This window is probably going to be the most important post Fergus so I'm interested to see how the Woodward/Solskjaer era will begin.

I'm talking about the whole playing operation and structure, not simply about transfers.

 

[Bestietom]

Do think solskjaer and phelan deserve a chance based on the excellent form we showed after they got put in charge, since it shows that they can get us to have a good run of form with good football. I’m just watching to see if they can mend the deficiencies we have with shrewd signings so we can play some good football if they are given chance to fix our deficiencies.

I agree, give them a chance before we judge.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Been 7 years and we still talk about this "rebuild" , why hasn't it started already?

In order to rebuild, you need a long-term strategy and a clear idea about what sort of people you wish to recruit. Woodward has never had that - at least not based on the evidence.

Perhaps he's finally learned his lesson now, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If Ole has been hired because there is faith in his ability to preside over a bit of a clearout - and then bring in the right profiles, working systematically with a team of assistants (and academy people, and scouts, and a possible "transfer committee" - and, hopefully, a DoF before too long), then there's hope.

If he's been hired because - well, he was there and looked pretty good at the time, and fans/journos seemed to think he deserved the gig...we're probably fecked (unless Ole actually is a genius on par with SAF).

 

[Keefy18]

The number 1 problem.

Damn right.

And yet he and the board are rumored to be currently looking at former players and involve them in the club...just like whom? Oh yeah Bayern.

And how do the majority of our fan base react? "eD's A CnUT" & "wHAt dOEs FlETChEr KnOw"

How many think Falcao and De Maria were more marketing ideas than who van Gaal wanted?

The fact LVG tried to force di Maria into a role he wasn’t suited for, and never had been, I’m going to go with marketing. I find it odd that lvg would buy a flair player to use in a rigid squad role.

ADM never wanted to leave RM but being as Real were selling a player who was arguably the best wide attacking player in the world at the time, why wouldn't we want him?

As for trying different roles with him, no harm. He was hit n miss and struggled in many games in the league, as is often the case with some foreigners adapting to the league.

LVG has his own agenda but who’s going to argue with his ‘zero understanding of football’ assessment of Woodward? Not me.

Feel free to look around at the Resume's of the top 6 clubs CEO's... they aren't "football men" either.

City - Soriano - Masters in Business and worked in Telecoms & management consulting firms he founded.
Liverpool - Peter Moore - Masters in Business I believe and closest he's come to football is working with a subsidiary of Reebok and being a PE Teacher!!
Spurs - Levy - Masters in Economic & Land Economy - A Spurs fan and business ventures in fashion and media.
Chelsea - Can't see much info in regards to Guy Laurence's education, seems to be all about his experience. Again worked in Telecoms and worked through Vodafone.
Arsenal - Masters in Economics & Management, worked on London Olympics committee. He has a chartered accountant qualification.

Finally to round out this complete and utter misconception, Gill was a "glorified accountant" exactly like Woodward.

Can we please stop this utter cod sh*t about CEO's having to be "footballing men".

There isn't a single feckin "football man" to be found in the top 6 sides CEO's unless you count working for a subsidiary of Reebok and teaching PE worthy of being a "Football man".

The manager isn't going to be negotiating the transfers and the incoming money.

No the nuts and bolts of that are probably down to Ed and Arnold, but would probably involve the manager at certain points as well. Ferguson mentioned in his books he was consulted upon often with regards transfer negotiations.

It's a bit of give n take and balancing books and trying to do what's right by the club and the team together.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

ADM never wanted to leave RM but being as Real were selling a player who was arguably the best wide attacking player in the world at the time, why wouldn't we want him?

As for trying different roles with him, no harm. He was hit n miss and struggled in many games in the league, as is often the case with some foreigners adapting to the league.

See the other thread (Guardian interview with LVG). Mentions Di Maria specifically, says he wasn't his first choice - but that he wanted him (and had wanted him years before, at AZ).

 

[Keefy18]

See the other thread (Guardian interview with LVG). Mentions Di Maria specifically, says he wasn't his first choice - but that he wanted him (and had wanted him years before, at AZ).

I saw it, I take form that quote he wanted him for years. Not just that he wanted him only 7 years ago and not since.

I mean, in the following 7 years ADM only improved and improved to the point of him being the best wide attacker in Europe arguably.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I saw it, I take form that quote he wanted him for years. Not just that he wanted him only 7 years ago and not since.

I mean, in the following 7 years ADM only improved and improved to the point of him being the best wide attacker in Europe arguably.

Yeah, that's how I read it too. In other words, he rathed him and was fine with the transfer (i.e. the "Ed pushed ADM on LVG" story can be dismissed as bollocks).

He wasn't first choice, that seems clear. But who was LVG's first choice? Müller, conceivably. Not an easy target, that.

 

[JPRouve]

See the other thread (Guardian interview with LVG). Mentions Di Maria specifically, says he wasn't his first choice - but that he wanted him (and had wanted him years before, at AZ).

And that's generally what happens, managers don't necessarily get their first choice but still get someone that they rate and appreciate. It's generally perplexing when people think that only the first choice matter, you are not necessairly in a position to pry him away from his current club and you are also not the only club that wants his services. One of the keys in sport management is to make the best of what you actually have not what you dream about, for example wasn't Shearer our first choice at some point?

 

[Kapardin]

And it's painful to watch. We've been so reactive, without a clear plan on how to get back to winning ways.
I suppose it's necessary to go through such poor spell, hiring and firing managers in order to realize bringing them for the short term quick fix is not going to cut it.
I really hope Ed backs Ole's ideas. Not financially primarily, but stand by his plan on how to revive the team.

We are currently like the kid who has all the lego blocks he needs but doesn't know how to build the structure. I don't expect a coherent transfer policy with Ed at the helm, but there is always a chance that by fluke, we end up having a successful summer and hence a very good season, which would spur our efforts to get back to the top. A fluke whereby we get most things right is basically what we can hope for, I assume it should happen sometime by the law of averages.

 

[roonster09]

And that's generally what happens, managers don't necessarily get their first choice but still get someone that they rate and appreciate. It's generally perplexing when people think that only the first choice matter, you are not necessairly in a position to pry him away from his current club and you are also not the only club that wants his services. One of the keys in sport management is to make the best of what you actually have not what you dream about, for example wasn't Shearer our first choice at some point?

Also this looks like Van Gaal distancing himself from the failed transfer. He named Di Maria as the quality winger we need to play 4-3-3 and once the transfer failed, he wasnt his choice.

"At this moment, we have five No. nines and four No. 10s – and we don't have wingers to give us attacking width," the former Netherlands coach told reporters.

"Or, I should say, we don't have wingers of the highest level, like Ronaldo or Di Maria or somebody like that.

"So, I have to play in another way – and you have seen that already. I only buy when I think we need to buy – in the position that is necessary."

 

[Chesterlestreet]

One of the keys in sport management is to make the best of what you actually have not what you dream about, for example wasn't Shearer our first choice at some point?

He was.

As was Gazza before that (imagine if that had gone through - could've been interesting to say the least - and it very nearly did).

And numerous others. Batistuta, for instance - and even Ronaldinho at one point. Fergie didn't get any of them at the end of the day - but managed alright nonetheless.

 

[Offside]

Surely this clown is on his way out? No way he lasts much longer. It’s obvious to everyone now where the problems at the club lie.

 

[Keefy18]

He was.

As was Gazza before that (imagine if that had gone through - could've been interesting to say the least - and it very nearly did).

And numerous others. Batistuta, for instance - and even Ronaldinho at one point. Fergie didn't get any of them at the end of the day - but managed alright nonetheless.

I've been saying this a lot since I joined the caf... folks are revising history.

Fergie missed out on or simply didn't sign plenty of players over the years. It's specifically a coaches job to coach the players at his disposal and improve them. To mold them into a functional unit, a team.

The 2 best teams in the league and now one of them Europe, are both extremely well drilled teams and we are not.

 

[Ekeke]

I've been saying this a lot since I joined the caf... folks are revising history.

Fergie missed out on or simply didn't sign plenty of players over the years. It's specifically a coaches job to coach the players at his disposal and improve them. To mold them into a functional unit, a team.

The 2 best teams in the league and now one of them Europe, are both extremely well drilled teams and we are not.

One of the best things about United and Sir Alex was that most of the time we wouldnt sign the very best, most expensive player in the world. Instead we'd take someone a tier or two below and they would develop at United into a great player. It showed that under Sir Alex players improved and became better.

 

[Keefy18]

One of the best things about United and Sir Alex was that most of the time we wouldnt sign the very best, most expensive player in the world. Instead we'd take someone a tier or two below and they would develop at United into a great player. It showed that under Sir Alex players improved and became better.

In fairness we've still done that quite a bit in recent years.

There's a running narrative that Ed only wants "Galacticos". But if you look at our actual signings, who realistically fits that narrative?

Does Herrera? Shaw? Martial? Bailly? Lindelof? Dalot? Blind? Rojo?

We've signed far more players that fit your narrative than the "Galactico" narrative so I've never understood why its peddled so much.

How they've performed is specifically on the manager alone and not a CEO.

 

[Bestietom]

In fairness we've still done that quite a bit in recent years.

There's a running narrative that Ed only wants "Galacticos". But if you look at our actual signings, who realistically fits that narrative?

Does Herrera? Shaw? Martial? Bailly? Lindelof? Dalot? Blind? Rojo?

We've signed far more players that fit your narrative than the "Galactico" narrative so I've never understood why its peddled so much.

How they've performed is specifically on the manager alone and not a CEO.

With Fergie, any player that did not give 110% was dropped.

 

[Keefy18]

With Fergie, any player that did not give 110% was dropped.

Players have been dropped for periods of time as well in recent years.

Rooney (Jose), Pogba (Jose), Martial (Ole), ADM (LVG)...

 

[Bestietom]

Players have been dropped for periods of time as well in recent years.

Rooney (Jose), Pogba (Jose), Martial (Ole), ADM (LVG)...

Also players that have not given their all have been kept on the field too often under LVG and Mourinho. If you watched you would know.

 

[Keefy18]

Also players that have not given their all have been kept on the field too often under LVG and Mourinho. If you watched you would know.

I've watched practically every single game and yes I know some have been kept on field too often.

If you take the LVG / Rooney situation, what would you have him do?

He inherited a player "over the hill" (his own words), protected by large sections of the supporter base still as a "club legend" and more importantly had only months previously been rewarded for abject performances by Moyes with a new 5 year deal, pay rise included to tie him to the club til he was 34.

He gave him ample chances up front, failed. Then tried him in midfield which was slightly lesser of 2 evils.

Extremely difficult situation to handle, impossible to say otherwise.

 

[Bestietom]

I've watched practically every single game and yes I know some have been kept on field too often.

If you take the LVG / Rooney situation, what would you have him do?

He inherited a player "over the hill" (his own words), protected by large sections of the supporter base still as a "club legend" and more importantly had only months previously been rewarded for abject performances by Moyes with a new 5 year deal, pay rise included to tie him to the club til he was 34.

He gave him ample chances up front, failed. Then tried him in midfield which was slightly lesser of 2 evils.

Extremely difficult situation to handle, impossible to say otherwise.

Yes, You are right and I'm not arguing with you. What I am trying to point out is players that Mourinho left on the field that were not trying, and brought others off. He done this with Rashford and Martial several times, and left Lukaku on.

 

[POF]

Random question. Are Richard Arnold and Matt Judge long time friends of Woodward or is it just a coincidence that they went to the same university and all ex PWC?

I've always felt United's hierarchy are outsiders in "football circles". You couldn't imagine Woodward moving on to a role in FIFA/UEFA and nobody at the club seems particularly well connected. Any major deals seem to be negotiated via intermediaries or by paying huge agent fees.

It's not unusual for top level management to appoint people they know and trust but if that is the hiring policy for senior executives, it's not surprising that the club is struggling with the structure on the football side.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

And yet he and the board are rumored to be currently looking at former players and involve them in the club...just like whom? Oh yeah Bayern.

And how do the majority of our fan base react? "eD's A CnUT" & "wHAt dOEs FlETChEr KnOw"





ADM never wanted to leave RM but being as Real were selling a player who was arguably the best wide attacking player in the world at the time, why wouldn't we want him?

As for trying different roles with him, no harm. He was hit n miss and struggled in many games in the league, as is often the case with some foreigners adapting to the league.



Feel free to look around at the Resume's of the top 6 clubs CEO's... they aren't "football men" either.

City - Soriano - Masters in Business and worked in Telecoms & management consulting firms he founded.
Liverpool - Peter Moore - Masters in Business I believe and closest he's come to football is working with a subsidiary of Reebok and being a PE Teacher!!
Spurs - Levy - Masters in Economic & Land Economy - A Spurs fan and business ventures in fashion and media.
Chelsea - Can't see much info in regards to Guy Laurence's education, seems to be all about his experience. Again worked in Telecoms and worked through Vodafone.
Arsenal - Masters in Economics & Management, worked on London Olympics committee. He has a chartered accountant qualification.

Finally to round out this complete and utter misconception, Gill was a "glorified accountant" exactly like Woodward.

Can we please stop this utter cod sh*t about CEO's having to be "footballing men".

There isn't a single feckin "football man" to be found in the top 6 sides CEO's unless you count working for a subsidiary of Reebok and teaching PE worthy of being a "Football man".



No the nuts and bolts of that are probably down to Ed and Arnold, but would probably involve the manager at certain points as well. Ferguson mentioned in his books he was consulted upon often with regards transfer negotiations.

It's a bit of give n take and balancing books and trying to do what's right by the club and the team together.

Nothing like rewriting history, huh.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

And yet he and the board are rumored to be currently looking at former players and involve them in the club...just like whom? Oh yeah Bayern.

And how do the majority of our fan base react? "eD's A CnUT" & "wHAt dOEs FlETChEr KnOw"





ADM never wanted to leave RM but being as Real were selling a player who was arguably the best wide attacking player in the world at the time, why wouldn't we want him?

As for trying different roles with him, no harm. He was hit n miss and struggled in many games in the league, as is often the case with some foreigners adapting to the league.



Feel free to look around at the Resume's of the top 6 clubs CEO's... they aren't "football men" either.

City - Soriano - Masters in Business and worked in Telecoms & management consulting firms he founded.
Liverpool - Peter Moore - Masters in Business I believe and closest he's come to football is working with a subsidiary of Reebok and being a PE Teacher!!
Spurs - Levy - Masters in Economic & Land Economy - A Spurs fan and business ventures in fashion and media.
Chelsea - Can't see much info in regards to Guy Laurence's education, seems to be all about his experience. Again worked in Telecoms and worked through Vodafone.
Arsenal - Masters in Economics & Management, worked on London Olympics committee. He has a chartered accountant qualification.

Finally to round out this complete and utter misconception, Gill was a "glorified accountant" exactly like Woodward.

Can we please stop this utter cod sh*t about CEO's having to be "footballing men".

There isn't a single feckin "football man" to be found in the top 6 sides CEO's unless you count working for a subsidiary of Reebok and teaching PE worthy of being a "Football man".



No the nuts and bolts of that are probably down to Ed and Arnold, but would probably involve the manager at certain points as well. Ferguson mentioned in his books he was consulted upon often with regards transfer negotiations.

It's a bit of give n take and balancing books and trying to do what's right by the club and the team together.

Get back to work Ed. The transfers aren't going to complete themselves.

 

[U99ted]

Are we really blaming Woody for not getting Mane? We were literally mocking Ed for going after Mane after having pursued former CL winners!
We were after Pedro that season initially and then became heavily linked with Muller. Towards the end of the summer, Mane's name popped up and nearly all of us were against that move. If anyone is interested in knowing how highly he was rated by us when we did not sign him, you can refer to this link- https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sadio-mané.408248/ (Don't want to sign an online feud and hence not quoting posts).

Lots of gold in there!

However, Ed Woodward and whoever is at United should know better than the common fan. They should be able to tell the Manes and Van Dijks from the Schneiderlins.

 

[Saffron]

Get back to work Ed. The transfers aren't going to complete themselves.

 

[Saffron]

Lots of gold in there!

However, Ed Woodward and whoever is at United should know better than the common fan. They should be able to tell the Manes and Van Dijks from the Schneiderlins.

Exactly. Brexit isn’t a good thing just because people voted for it.

 

[RedPed]

I'm talking about the whole playing operation and structure, not simply about transfers.

Nobody would be talking about Woodward if we were winning games on the pitch. Nobody can blame him for the way we played against Huddersfield, Cardiff for example and countless other games. The point I was making is that over the years we have been provided with the players to be more successful than we have been. As I said he was hailed when those players came in. For whatever reason, they just haven't performed. Changing the playing operation and structure is not going to affect that. The only blame I attribute to him is the Moyes appointment, along with the Fellaini signing at that time

 

[r0663664]

To me, it is very simple. Chose the right manager and back him all the way. When Klopp and Pep was available, it was a no-brainer. Jose is definitely not the manager for us. Van Gaal could possibly do it but it takes time. Ole is still very inexperienced so I don’t know if he would be successful in 3-5 years.

 

[We need an rvn]

Surely this clown is on his way out? No way he lasts much longer. It’s obvious to everyone now where the problems at the club lie.

Impossible for us to know, but I think the owners find the financial side more important than anything and thus happy to keep Woody. But I just don't get how they can't see how us not winning anything will harm the brand and throwing money at it like Woody has isn't the way to do it. They need to change the layout at the top.

If I were owner, I'd keep him definitely involved in the finance side of things but set up the director of football area up who has just as much power as Woody does and leads that side of the business

 

[1988]

Feel free to look around at the Resume's of the top 6 clubs CEO's... they aren't "football men" either.

City - Soriano - Masters in Business and worked in Telecoms & management consulting firms he founded.
Liverpool - Peter Moore - Masters in Business I believe and closest he's come to football is working with a subsidiary of Reebok and being a PE Teacher!!
Spurs - Levy - Masters in Economic & Land Economy - A Spurs fan and business ventures in fashion and media.
Chelsea - Can't see much info in regards to Guy Laurence's education, seems to be all about his experience. Again worked in Telecoms and worked through Vodafone.
Arsenal - Masters in Economics & Management, worked on London Olympics committee. He has a chartered accountant qualification.

Finally to round out this complete and utter misconception, Gill was a "glorified accountant" exactly like Woodward.

Can we please stop this utter cod sh*t about CEO's having to be "footballing men".

There isn't a single feckin "football man" to be found in the top 6 sides CEO's unless you count working for a subsidiary of Reebok and teaching PE worthy of being a "Football man".

City have Tixiki Begiristain as a Director of Football, and Arsenal have Raul Sanllehi (They had Sven Mislintat). Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs seems to just have a somewhat working structure in place where it seems the manager still has a lot to be said. We work with a similar structure the only difference is that our CEO has been looking at every possible short sighted option ever since Ferguson left (Both managers and most players). I don't mind Eddy as a CEO, but I would love for a "footballing" man to come in and give us a long term strategy because Ed have proven he isn't capable of doing just that.

 

[crossy1686]

Surely this clown is on his way out? No way he lasts much longer. It’s obvious to everyone now where the problems at the club lie.

Probably not? Problem is, I'm not entirely sure how much of the issues are his doing.

He doesn't take care of the financial side, Arnold and the team do that. He doesn't negotiate contracts. The manager is the one, along with the scouting team, that identify potential targets, Woodward then tries to sign them? Maybe?

He's very much the face of our failure but he's the Glazer's right hand man, he does whatever they tell him to.

I think our structure at the top is what's fecking us to be honest, not solely Ed Woodward.

 

[Kapardin]

City have Tixiki Begiristain as a Director of Football, and Arsenal have Raul Sanllehi (They had Sven Mislintat). Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs seems to just have a somewhat working structure in place where it seems the manager still has a lot to be said. We work with a similar structure the only difference is that our CEO has been looking at every possible short sighted option ever since Ferguson left (Both managers and most players). I don't mind Eddy as a CEO, but I would love for a "footballing" man to come in and give us a long term strategy because Ed have proven he isn't capable of doing just that.

Liverpool have Michael Edwards and Klopp's thorough knowledge of the Bundesliga while it appears Chelsea and Spurs have better scouts than we do. But Chelsea's transfer policy is hit and miss at times, so they aren't significantly better than us in that regard.

 

[UncleBob]

The fact LVG tried to force di Maria into a role he wasn’t suited for, and never had been, I’m going to go with marketing. I find it odd that lvg would buy a flair player to use in a rigid squad role.

Absurd chain of thought. We have sacked 3 managers since Fergie retired, two of them are known for speaking their minds and both loathe it when players are forced upon them (especially Mourinho), yet none of them have even hinted in the direction that Woodward signed players they didn't want. Mourinho loves to blame others, yet all he's complaining about is that he wasn't backed enough...

The notion that Woodward has been signing players for marketing purposes is fan-made fiction, there's nothing to back it up.

Di Maria being a failure at United is not evidence that the manager didn't want him.

 

[1988]

Liverpool have Michael Edwards and Klopp's thorough knowledge of the Bundesliga while it appears Chelsea and Spurs have better scouts than we do. But Chelsea's transfer policy is hit and miss at times, so they aren't significantly better than us in that regard.

Yeah, FSG did well appointing Edwards. Him and Klopp seems to share a common vision. Chelsea is a scattergun just like us. They did try with a Football Director if I remember correctly though. Did the completely scrap that?

 

[MackRobinson]

The fact LVG tried to force di Maria into a role he wasn’t suited for, and never had been, I’m going to go with marketing. I find it odd that lvg would buy a flair player to use in a rigid squad role.

Unsubstantiated nonsense. No surprise given the poster.