Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition

Kapardin said:
Nepotism and bias has been the bane of our club.

Ferguson favoring Moyes as his successor. The Glazers appointing their yes-man Woodward and giving him unquestioned power. Ole's rushed appointment based on sentiment alone. Ole's pandering to Rashford and Lingard just because they are academy products and "local".

The club is mired in the past and unable to bring in a truly meritocratic system which is simply digging us a bigger hole. In contrast, clubs like Liverpool and City, and even Chelsea are far more ruthless.
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Nah, that's just the 'United Way'
 
Pavl3n said:
Gold!
I love the "He needs another good season in the PL, before we consider him" or "He's good on his day, but he's Southampton quality, not good enough" comments.
Guy went to win CL, while we could've been out of EL had it not been for Ole's feel good factor.
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It highlights our decline since 2015.
 
Saffron said:
I remember mods literally locking threads voicing concerns about Ole and actively shaming anyone who wasn’t fully onboard the ”Ole at the wheel” train. So you can’t really blame ordinary Caf members too much when the discourse was being actively herded to a certain consensus.
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I'm not sure which threads you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure they would have been about issues that didn't exist at all- till then at least
 
anant said:
No, the argument is the revisionism that people have here.
It's like when we hired Ole, people were completely onboard his train- he understands United, he has learnt from SAF, previous job does not matter as the expectation was different and so was the team quality.
Now, we've changed tune to- He's inexperienced at the top, stuck in the past, we are obsessed with romanticism, etc.
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Because behind your reasoning here there is a huge amount of emotional thinking. Ole story would be the best possible one. Of course everyone was on board. I mean, I absolutely love the man (goes in my favorite 3 - Cantona, Scholes, Ole). He can get us relagated and I would still adore him.

The board shouldn't act the same or get a free pass because of that. Bad decision is a bad one.

Tbf, Ole just started and we will see, but my problem with the decision was that at the moment when we done that there was absolutely no clear pattern in terms of how he wants us to play which for me means that our board/Ed still do not have a clear plan in terms of our football identity.

Maybe he explained them in a meeting.

But hey, I thought Jose ane LVG were good choices so here is hoping. Because I don't feel this is a good one.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
He's had plenty of chances to

The posting in threads criticising the board and Woodward has been pretty consistent.

The nature of a forum means that current events are going to influence what gets bumped to the top. It doesn't make the criticisms any less valid. Especially in the context of 6 years of failure and Woodward's consistent gross mismanagement.

Agree that our fans should do more to put pressure on Woodward and the Glazer's though.
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It’s been consistent because our rivals have been consistently better. This thread rears it’s head every summer when we don’t sign the players we wanted, during the season when the manager should be sacked and whenever our rivals win something.

If people hate the board then at least be consistent with it and do something about it. Stop buying United branded shit, avoid our sponsors, don’t go to the games, stop following us on social media.

At the moment this thread is basically:

What is Solskjaer?
Why haven’t we signed De Ligt/Messi/Griezmann?
Why do Jones and Young have new contracts?
Why are our rivals better?

= sack the board.

While I agree serious questions need to be asked, nothing is going to happen until people take action. Green and Gold was great until we won a league title and that fecking stopped that.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
He's had plenty of chances to

The posting in threads criticising the board and Woodward has been pretty consistent.

The nature of a forum means that current events are going to influence what gets bumped to the top. It doesn't make the criticisms any less valid. Especially in the context of 6 years of failure and Woodward's consistent gross mismanagement.

Agree that our fans should do more to put pressure on Woodward and the Glazer's though.
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Sure, we've got a lot of things wrong, including 3 managerial appointments in a row. We're now a massive victim of our own past successes, but to say we've had 6 years of complete failure is a little overboard. We've still won more than 99% of all league clubs, albeit that we've not hit the heights that we once did. I maintain that the biggest problem for United is our rivals playing great football and achieving trophies. Our fanbase is jealous. That puts pressure on to immediately do something now whereas we need to build in a way that gets us back up to that level and to maintain that level.

Again, the problem is how you do that without being stiffed on every deal.
 
crossy1686 said:
It’s been consistent because our rivals have been consistently better. This thread rears it’s head every summer when we don’t sign the players we wanted, during the season when the manager should be sacked and whenever our rivals win something.

If people hate the board then at least be consistent with it and do something about it. Stop buying United branded shit, avoid our sponsors, don’t go to the games, stop following us on social media.

At the moment this thread is basically:

What is Solskjaer?
Why haven’t we signed De Ligt/Messi/Griezmann?
Why do Jones and Young have new contracts?
Why are our rivals better?

= sack the board.

While I agree serious questions need to be asked, nothing is going to happen until people take action. Green and Gold was great until we won a league title and that fecking stopped that.
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Yep. Stop giving those leeches money.
 
Jim Beam said:
Because behind your reasoning here there is a huge amount of emotional thinking. Ole story would be the best possible one. Of course everyone was on board. I mean, I absolutely love the man (goes in my favorite 3 - Cantona, Scholes, Ole). He can get us relagated and I would still adore him.

The board shouldn't act the same or get a free pass because of that. Bad decision is a bad one.

Tbf, Ole just started and we will see, but my problem with the decision was that at the moment when we done that there was absolutely no clear pattern in terms of how he wants us to play which for me means that our board/Ed still do not have a clear plan in terms of our football identity.

Maybe he explained them in a meeting.

But hey, I thought Jose ane LVG were good choices so here is hoping. Because I don't feel this is a good one.
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It's just not my POV. My 1st preference was Poch (has been since LVGs 2nd season), but after the initial run, it was obvious that he deserved a proper chance as our full time manager. Even without the emotional thinking, Ole was bound to get the job. We finished 3rd in the league since he came in, took us to QF of CL (beyond expectations), QF of FA Cup (beyond expectations considering the draw). He would have faced some serious questions in the shareholder's meeting had the Full time manager not performed better than this next season (which is not an easy task).
Either ways, the emotional reasoning is part of football. People love for that romanticism, the hollywood script, rags to riches story or one of our own coming back to take the club to pinnacle of football.
Now, next is the style of play part- we have been trying to go for quick slick passing in the final third to open the oppo defences. It will take time after thekind of football we've played since last few years. He did try to go for a higher pressing game and us running our socks off which resulted in half the squad getting muscular injuries. I hope that we'll be working on the fitness this summer and come back better come next season.
Additionally, his transfer targets atleast have a plan. He understands where we are and he know that he needs to get the foundation stronger and build the side for next half a decade than a couple of seasons, Hence, the players we are getting linked with are in their late teens or early 20s which again is a great sign.
Now obviously it can go south, but we need to be completely fair to Woody here. He's got stuff wrong, but most of hid decisions seemed obvious to everyone at the time.
 
Saffron said:
I remember mods literally locking threads voicing concerns about Ole and actively shaming anyone who wasn’t fully onboard the ”Ole at the wheel” train. So you can’t really blame ordinary Caf members too much when the discourse was being actively herded to a certain consensus.
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Yep, I remember that too.
 
Between sales of De Gea, Pogba and Lukaku, United should get enough money to reinvest wisely and build well for the future. Unfortunately I have zero confidence in this clown doing it right.
 
JPRouve said:
Who told you that it was a thing? Woodward isn't the one identifying players, he doesn't negotiate transfers or wages and many clubs have been looking for a DOF for a longer time than United as an example Chelsea and Lyon, it's not actually that easy to find someone most clubs take a long time to do it.
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Woodward may not lead the negotiations but he definitely does have final say, remember last summer when Mourinho wanted a CB but was vetoed? To absolve him of blame is ridiculous. Even if someone else was did handle transfers completely from A-Z, six years without even challenging for a league title, he should be firing everyone around him!

No one said its easy but the examples you cited are fringe, most clubs can and have changed DOFs regularly. We need to follow good examples rather than bad ones.
 
Hamadovich86 said:
Woodward may not lead the negotiations but he definitely does have final say, remember last summer when Mourinho wanted a CB but was vetoed? To absolve him of blame is ridiculous. Even if someone else was did handle transfers completely from A-Z, six years without even challenging for a league title, he should be firing everyone around him!

No one said its easy but the examples you cited are fringe, most clubs can and have changed DOFs regularly. We need to follow good examples rather than bad ones.
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I don't because it never happened, United went after CBs some rejected us like Boateng and Godin while we reportedly talked to Leicester for Maguire but they asked for too much money.

And no clubs do not change DOFs regularly, that's one of the main reason behind the role, to not change it regularly.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't because it never happened, United went after CBs some rejected us like Boateng and Godin while we reportedly talked to Leicester for Maguire but they asked for too much money.
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Do you think it's ole who gave new contracts to someone like jones? Will you blame Mourinho for extending Rojo? Lingard on 100k was that Mourinho who negotiated it?

Woodward probably signs those contracts with his final signatures where as his right-hand beurocratic style set ups with matt law negotiates on his behalf.

The blame lies on his door.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't because it never happened, United went after CBs some rejected us like Boateng and Godin while we reportedly talked to Leicester for Maguire but they asked for too much money.
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Mate it has been repeatedly reported that Mourinho was vetoed by United Management aka Woodward
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...united-veto-jose-mourinho-wishlist-cash-fears
https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/football/why-united-said-no-to-mourinhos-wish-list

And even if like you said we got rejected by Boateng and Godin and Maguire was too expensive, you mean to tell me that Man United are incapable of signing a CB if the manager as requested? Last summer's window was indicative of our season we literally signed two first team players when surely it was time to strength and try to move the team forward. At best Woodward and his team failed to sign the targets (still damming for them) and at worst they literally refused to sign the players the manager wanted.
 
Patrick08 said:
Do you think it's ole who gave new contracts to someone like jones? Will you blame Mourinho for extending Rojo? Lingard on 100k was that Mourinho who negotiated it?

Woodward probably signs those contracts with his final signatures where as his right-hand beurocratic style set ups with matt law negotiates on his behalf.

The blame lies on his door.
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It is the manager who decides who we extend or not but it's Judge who is supposed to do the negotiation. What you can do is blame Woodward for appointing Judge and Mourinho, he is responsible for both of his subordinate.
 
JPRouve said:
It is the manager who decides who we extend or not
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If that was the case Martial and Shaw wouldn't have been here and probably sold under mourinho. Power centres at this club is divided. Manager is no longer running the show.
 
Hamadovich86 said:
Mate it has been repeatedly reported that Mourinho was vetoed by United Management aka Woodward
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...united-veto-jose-mourinho-wishlist-cash-fears
https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/football/why-united-said-no-to-mourinhos-wish-list

And even if like you said we got rejected by Boateng and Godin and Maguire was too expensive, you mean to tell me that Man United are incapable of signing a CB if the manager as requested? Last summer's window was indicative of our season we literally signed two first team players when surely it was time to strength and try to move the team forward. At best Woodward and his team failed to sign the targets (still damming for them) and at worst they literally refused to sign the players the manager wanted.
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You do realize that journalist have no idea about what is on the "whishlist", the only thing that we know is that we went after Godin and Boateng because the players said it themselves and then we have the reports about Maguire which contradict your claim that Woodward vetoed the purchase of a CB. Don't try to wiggle out of your initial claim.
As for the rest of your post, every clubs on earth fail to sign some of their targets every year, the clubs and players on the other side of the table have interest to protect.
 
Patrick08 said:
If that was the case Martial and Shaw wouldn't have been here and probably sold under mourinho. Power centres at this club is divided. Manager is no longer running the show.
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The manager has never been managing the show, not even SAF who was denied players and had to follow a strict wage structure until mid 2000s. That's not a thing in football and sport in general, managers are employees and they don't cut the checks.
 
JPRouve said:
The manager has never been managing the show, not even SAF who was denied players and had to follow a strict wage structure until mid 2000s. That's not a thing in football and sport in general, managers are employees and they don't cut the checks.
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Now your contradicting your own previous stand buddy.
 
Rendezvous with Ronaldo said:
True. But Barcelona and Madrid are built on nepotism and bias - check out their managerial history for clear proof - the last manager at Madrid to have no links to them is Ancelotti, and at Barca it's even worse (I think, not certain). Liverpool for many years after their League titles dried up were the same - Souness, Roy Evans and Dalglish show this. And it's easier not to be as run on nepotism and nostalgia when you have the more modest history of Man City and Chelsea (although Chelsea are genuinely ruthless).
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The point is, neither Barca nor Real would hesitate to sack a manager like Enrique or Zidane if they underperformed, even if the appointment was based on connections to the club. Or move on players as well.

We are always too late to react in sacking managers, rectifying mistakes and also hoard mediocre players based on whether they are British or from the academy.
 
@Patrick08 that doesn't contradict what I said, that particular duty is on the manager and that's why I also told you that you can blame Woodward for appointing people in their respective roles. The power being in Woodwads hadns doesn't mean that all duties are executed by him.
 
Kapardin said:
The point is, neither Barca nor Real would hesitate to sack a manager like Enrique or Zidane if they underperformed, even if the appointment was based on connections to the club. Or move on players as well.

We are always too late to react in sacking managers, rectifying mistakes and also hoard mediocre players based on whether they are British or from the academy.
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Biggest cause of our decline alongside hiring the wrong ones in the first place. Fair enough you've accidentally set your kitchen on fire, but don't fecking wait till it's burned down your entire house before doing something about it.

But according to our club and our fan base, letting the entire house burn is the more honourable thing to do.
 
anant said:
It's just not my POV. My 1st preference was Poch (has been since LVGs 2nd season), but after the initial run, it was obvious that he deserved a proper chance as our full time manager. Even without the emotional thinking, Ole was bound to get the job. We finished 3rd in the league since he came in, took us to QF of CL (beyond expectations), QF of FA Cup (beyond expectations considering the draw). He would have faced some serious questions in the shareholder's meeting had the Full time manager not performed better than this next season (which is not an easy task).
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Yeah, looks good. Still, if we waited and made the decision after the season was over do you honestly think he would get the job? Because I don't feel that way. And that is my problem with the decision making process. It just seemed reactionary. If board/Ed would not make the same decision now then that's
already a massive problem and shows lacks of long term planning imo. Absolutely no way that there should be 2 separate decisions in space of so little time.

anant said:
Either ways, the emotional reasoning is part of football. People love for that romanticism, the hollywood script, rags to riches story or one of our own coming back to take the club to pinnacle of football.
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Aye, agree with that. But it shouldn't guide our board and people should understand why so many people were behind the decision and now have concerns.

anant said:
Now, next is the style of play part- we have been trying to go for quick slick passing in the final third to open the oppo defences. It will take time after thekind of football we've played since last few years. He did try to go for a higher pressing game and us running our socks off which resulted in half the squad getting muscular injuries. I hope that we'll be working on the fitness this summer and come back better come next season.
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My hope as well. My concern atm is that lack of fitness still doesn't explain lack of movement in attacking phase and it looks like (again) we rely on individual moments and not collective effort. Second, it seemed like the team, after initial phase, reverted into the style of play that was brought by Jose as it is the one they've been working on for the last 3 years which is also a problem as you should feel managers hand after half a year. I thought that this team can play and do better. After all, we do have a proof of that at the start of Jose 2nd season and when Ole came in. I absolutely don't buy this current narrative that the whole team is shit.

As for the transfers, I am happy we are going for younger players. All in all, hope you are right and Ole proves me wrong. I know he has the best interest of the club in his heart and I certainly didn't have the same feeling with Jose after things went bad.
 
crossy1686 said:
It’s been consistent because our rivals have been consistently better. This thread rears it’s head every summer when we don’t sign the players we wanted, during the season when the manager should be sacked and whenever our rivals win something.

If people hate the board then at least be consistent with it and do something about it. Stop buying United branded shit, avoid our sponsors, don’t go to the games, stop following us on social media.

At the moment this thread is basically:

What is Solskjaer?
Why haven’t we signed De Ligt/Messi/Griezmann?
Why do Jones and Young have new contracts?
Why are our rivals better?

= sack the board.

While I agree serious questions need to be asked, nothing is going to happen until people take action. Green and Gold was great until we won a league title and that fecking stopped that.
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I think it's safe to say we don't look like winning the league title again anytime soon. Yet we should have more resources than Liverpool who came close.

2 of those 5 questions you cite are down to the boards bad planning.

We do need to "zoom out" and look at the longer term factors which have got us into this position. Contributing factors go back as far as "no value in the market" and not re investing the Ronaldo money. Obviously there has been bad decision after bad decision since 2013 to compound that squad decline.

Woodward is the new fall guy and is part of the problem. But he is only the right hand of the Glazers.
 
backofthenet said:
Sure, we've got a lot of things wrong, including 3 managerial appointments in a row. We're now a massive victim of our own past successes, but to say we've had 6 years of complete failure is a little overboard. We've still won more than 99% of all league clubs, albeit that we've not hit the heights that we once did. I maintain that the biggest problem for United is our rivals playing great football and achieving trophies. Our fanbase is jealous. That puts pressure on to immediately do something now whereas we need to build in a way that gets us back up to that level and to maintain that level.

Again, the problem is how you do that without being stiffed on every deal.
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I don't buy this "jealousy" argument or "being a victim of past successes" to justify the terrible decisions and lack of strategy from the board. We should have the resources to compete. We finished 6th. This is not even a new league position for us!

No matter who won the trophies this year, serious questions and criticism need to be directed at our board and owners.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Woodward is the new fall guy and is part of the problem. But he is only the right hand of the Glazers.
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Glazers, Woodward, Judge(contracts), previous and current managers, the players....

The Glazers is the most fundamental problem. Replacing them, with owners that prefer winning over $$$, would cause major changes at the club. Simple as that.
Woodward: We do not know what decisions are his, the board or the managers... Can't know for sure. So thinking that he has everything or nothing to do with the problems at the club, and replacing him will either fix nothing or everything. Well, not likely.
Managers: Same issue as Woodward.
The players: Could argue that 75% of them are not good enough(their abilities are a long way off, or age has taken them) to play for a team that is fighting for CL/PL titles.
 
How is he contradicting himself? Woodward and the club set the wage structure that the manager has to operate within. How the manager does that is on him. Of course Jones contract was approved by Mourinho with the obvious knowledge that he could not sign another player on the same wages without getting rid of Jones.
Its a very different thing if the manager maxes out our wage bill and then some as Mourinho did with the Sanchez transfer. If the manager then comes crying for more money for wages in the summer, its a financial decision to turn him down, which the clubs brass is suppose to take. This has no relevance for an argument that Woodward gets involved in individual transfers or if we need another CB or not. Mourinho had to sell to get what he came crying for in the summer after Sanchez flopped. Mourinho could easily have let Fellaini go and those wages would had been there for a new top CB. Mourinho prioritized differently. Thats on him.
You are talking like it should be down to the manager to decide on the size of the wage bill. Then we would have had a pretty damn decent team today. But thats just idiotic.
 
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Fosu-Mens said:
Glazers, Woodward, Judge(contracts), previous and current managers, the players....

The Glazers is the most fundamental problem. Replacing them, with owners that prefer winning over $$$, would cause major changes at the club. Simple as that.
Woodward: We do not know what decisions are his, the board or the managers... Can't know for sure. So thinking that he has everything or nothing to do with the problems at the club, and replacing him will either fix nothing or everything. Well, not likely.
Managers: Same issue as Woodward.
The players: Could argue that 75% of them are not good enough(their abilities are a long way off, or age has taken them) to play for a team that is fighting for CL/PL titles.
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How do you propose to do this then? You understand that the Glazers own the club and we as fans cant "replace" them.
There are two options if the Glazers sell: a) we will be taken over via another leveraged takeover, that will be way worse than the Glazer´s and saddle the club with enormous debt; b) we will be taken over by an arab or Chinese owner for reasons that at least I dont want to see the light of day of near our club. Sometimes its better with the devil you know, and as long as the Glazers has us on a wage/turnover ratio of 50 or so percent (as now) they are doing what can be expected and we should be happy with them. It could be way worse, and I seriously dont see a realistic option how we could get a better owner.
 
Bestietom said:
Says who. He is feeding the Glazers.
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Says anyone that knows anything about the club. Woodward was replaced as commercial director by Richard Arnold 5 years ago. He has not negotiated one noodle deal since then Not his responsibility anymore. As to the footballing side that is such a myth. We have a manager and a head of corporate development in Matt Judge that works with the manager and negotiates contracts etc. Woodward had that negotiating role for like 9 months just after his appointment as CEO while they were looking for a head of corporate development, a position that was then offered to Judge. There is no evidence at all that Woodward has been anywhere near the sporting side of things anymore if you dont include tabloid ABU-media. Do you even know what a CEO does?
Great response btw.
 
Bestietom said:
Says who. He is feeding the Glazers.
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If I'm not mistaken Arnold, Baty and Judge are supposed to be in charge of the commercial and finance side of things but Woodward had reportedly difficulties to let go of that side. On the football side, he is supposed to be hands off, with the manager being in charge and Judge doing the negotiations, on the football side as the vice chairman the obvious aspect where he definitely has direct influence is the budget.
 
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