Fair points Pat and Skizzo. I just rate Vieri higher than some in here. His level is at least equal to Tardelli as CM, imho.
EAP VS Pat/Skizzo - All time 3 year peak - Auction Draft
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
They play on opposite sides of a pitch. You can't establish a GK/ST link by this! Edwards/Charlton have combined and played well together at high level. I certainly can't find anything faulty in that partnership.
No worries. All of this is based on opinions to a degree anyway
I do think that's a vast understating of Tardelli's abilities though. Especially when vieri would have a much more difficult job. Tardelli would be right at home In a midfield battle, and comfortable with us in possession. Vieri here wouldn't be able to impact the game in any way with our defense.
I would say none of your attackers (Maradona, Eusebio and Gullit) have played in a counter attacking set up before. Mine may be less star value, but is a better fit as a team.
His comment was fairly tongue in cheek I think, since they came from similar stylistic backgrounds like anto said his players did from various barca and Ajax sides.
And pat already mentioned that Carlton and Edwards had limited games together, so not sure how much of a world class, dominating link that is.
We already mentioned that we won't be looking to counter if that's how you're set up. We'll enjoy the possession and let Maradona run the show. I don't see where you covered a game plan to try and limit his influence?
And it really isn't even about names or star value. Vieri is out of his depth and will have no influence. If he can't perform his role of linking and holding play, suddenly Charlton isn't at his prolific self.
Since I'm not getting any traction, I'll give up on counter attach and switch to a more balanced strategy. Rivellino comes in to boost the strength in attack...and get the final winning goal!
@Aldo sub please.
@Aldo sub please.
Yeah pat mentioned it later but I think it got shuffled under his drunken tirades
Yeah pat mentioned it later but I think it got shuffled under his drunken tirades
Then your players are probably confused and not effective?
Then your players are probably confused and not effective?
Not as much as the defense led by ballon d'or winning Sammer who suddenly got yanked off the pitch
Which it is IMO. Proven pairs are great but I don't hold them in much higher esteem than pairs that would clearly work very well stylistically. I think that pair is one of your highlights, more so than the eye-catching Maradona-Eusebio.
The criticism of that isn't absurd at all. Your team would be far better with Platini and Müller in it than it is right now with Maradona and Eusebio. Not a shadow of a doubt in my mind.
I'd also agree with those arguing you have one defender too many while lacking a holding midfielder that really frees up Marco and van Hanegem. Yes, I get that Effenberg shouldn't be holding, but you really should have got a DM. You can't just sit around praying Desailly will be released for upgrade.
Since I'm not getting any traction, I'll give up on counter attach and switch to a more balanced strategy. Rivellino comes in to boost the strength in attack...and get the final winning goal!
@Aldo sub please.
WTF have you done? This scenario is the one where you drop your two RBs and play your best one.
Lizarazu - Forster - Sammer - Djalma
Mr. Brainfart strikes again
Is there really a gap between Alberto and Djalma? Always thought there's nothing in it, Djalma probably the better defender and Alberto better on the ball (which helps when you're chasing the game and you're opponent is playing without a left winger).
I would concede Vieri would struggle when facing three CBs and with figueroa minding him. That said, most strikers would. Ultimately, Vieri was making a major contribution of taking Figueroa out of the equation (or else he WOULD make an impact) leaving Chumpitaz and Ruggeri to deal with Jairzinho and Charlton while Falcao and Edwards bomb forward through the middle.
I would have thought we would have appreciated by now that even when a striker may not score he can play a valuable role in keeping certain defenders busy and dictating their positioning. That's what Vieri did for EAP which neither Eusebio nor Gullit do for you: he led the line, pegged back defenders, and as a result created space between the lines for his teammates.
I do rate Djalma higher.
My main problem there really isn't Djalma/Torres but Sammer being dropped and keeping Burgnich. It's not just Sammer being an evidently superior player (and the sort of ball player required, indeed). Burgnich is a deep-sitting defender and if EAP is going to take the game by the scruff of the neck he needs to play a high line. And if you play Sammer you may want him foraging forward at times and I fancy Djalma as the better defender to cover for him.
In short, if you move to four at the back Burgnich goes, Sammer stays, and Djalma is the one you want at RB then.
Think antohan wants Sammer there as the sweeper so that he has the freedom to bomb forward and help in the midfield battle/dealing with Maradona and help free up Falcao or Duncan to bomb forward more (not doing all that at once but in fine balance ofc). Skizzo/Pat don't really have a packed forward line with Eusebio/Maradona and are playing without a true spearheading #9, so I can see why playing with a sweeper instead of 2 stoppers might be better. In that case, with Sammer there, Djalma would have been a much better fit than C.Alberto.
I can see the merits of having C.Alberto too as the opposition only has one LWB (and van Hanegem/Chumpitaz helping out) on that flank against Jairzinho and C.Alberto but the former option would probably give EAP more oomph in the middle, where Skizzo/Pat have Eusebio and Maradona.
Great minds think alike @Joga Bonito
His role was meant to be the focal point of the attack, to hold up the ball and win headers to knock down for the supporting cast. Doesn't matter how we spin it, he wouldn't do that here. He's not holding the ball up, nor does he have the benefit of an aerial advantage...And since Edgar mentioned Forster was following Gullit out wide, I think we would have had exactly what we wanted with space opening up for Maradona.
Although he's yanked him and Sammer off now so it's in the past
His role was meant to be the focal point of the attack, to hold up the ball and win headers to knock down for the supporting cast. Doesn't matter how we spin it, he wouldn't do that here. He's not holding the ball up, nor does he have the benefit of an aerial advantage...And since Edgar mentioned Forster was following Gullit out wide, I think we would have had exactly what we wanted with space opening up for Maradona.
Although he's yanked him and Sammer off now so it's in the past
Well yeah, if you stick to the letter of what EAP said... Anyone with half a brain would know Jairzinho doesn't need some chap knocking balls down to him though.
I'd still question that logic of Vieri becoming completely anonymous, he was averaging one goal a game against some of the meanest defences the world has ever seen. He is getting massively underrated here just on the back of this being an all-time draft.
I rate each and every one of your three (although I dislike them as a trio, particularly Chumpitaz who looks out of sorts to me in that setup) but I don't see what they have on the better late 90s Serie A defences. Take this, for instance: Cannavaro and Thuram as CBs and Buffon in nets...
Sure, Eusebio is a GOAT, and EAP would have been blessed to have him instead but Vieri has been reduced to some sort of Grant Holt, which he wasn't.
Fair enough, I just think that 'much better' is a bit of an exaggeration. C. Alberto was an excellent defender, even played centerback later in his career. He on his own is an excellent fit in that role as well.Great minds think alike @Joga Bonito
He is a good fit, no doubt. If there was no Djalma around you would play him and I certainly wouldn't see anything wrong with it. But he does have Djalma, and THAT is exactly the sort of setup you spunk 40M on Djalma for (or whatever he cost, but I remember it being rather steep).
Play any flat back four sitting back and many RBs can do a good enough job. Play a high line with a libero foraging forward or coming forth to pick up an Eusebio dropping deep and the best RB you could possibly have is Djalma Santos. Or if you were to play one of those spastic Magyar formations with three at the back... That is where he is in a league of his own, far ahead of most rightbacks, even the better ones. Superb defender.
Sorry for the delay. Just woke up. EAP formation updated.
Great minds think alike @Joga Bonito
Tbf to EAP, I won't really call it a brainfart though, as playing C.Alberto has its own merits. However, you are spot on in that Djalma would have been brilliant at covering for Sammer and holding the fort whilst Sammer goes forward to deal with Maradona/Eusebio and make more of an impact going forward for EAP.
Anyway with the current change, EAP gets a clearer C.Alberto-Jairzinho link-up and I'm sure there will be quite a few who will view C.Alberto-Jairzinho flank as more advantageous than having Sammer as the sweeper with Djalma as the RB. Kocsis coming on for Vieri is bound to be received well too. Do think Vieri has been underrated here but then, he is up against Figueroa so it's reasonable to a certain extent. So it's a good tactical change overall imo.
Yeah, it does sound harsh reading it again but I do think Djalma Santos was the better fit as a dynamic defensive behemoth, who could help facilitate Sammer's forays forward, as opposed to the more refined but physically less endowed (relatively ofc) C.Alberto. Djalma Santos's offensive game is also extremely underrated and his one-touch passing was just
. He truly was a complete and balanced FB with great technical qualities and immense defensive ability. Just wasn't someone who could incessantly bomb up and down the flank though. Anyway the comment was more to do with Djalma's suitability to the back-line with Sammer in it as opposed to C.Alberto's lack of individual ability but I can understand why it came across as me underrating C.Alberto. He is more than fit enough to hold his own against the very best imo, so it isn't me underrating him.Anyway that isn't the change that's occurred here so will drop it as it isn't relevant to the game right now.
Alberto, I am guessing, got the nod due to his link with Jairzinho, which is fair enough. I do agree with the above posts that Djalma and Sammer would make a lot of sense in the back four, I am not sure what Burgnich is still doing there especially next to Forster.
BTW to the old timers - we know quite a bit about their national team exploits, even there Djalma played 4 WCs, but who wins it between him and Alberto in their club careers? This guy's defensive nous is really amazing..
(no. 4)
BTW to the old timers - we know quite a bit about their national team exploits, even there Djalma played 4 WCs, but who wins it between him and Alberto in their club careers? This guy's defensive nous is really amazing..
(no. 4)
Cheers Aldo for setting it up! Agree with Balu etc about the teams not being as perfect as one would wish for at this stage in an all time draft. Gullit looks like the perfect foil in a Maradona setup and he would bring work-rate, selfishness and width to that striker role.
Eusebio/Maradona looks very odd, both are ball carrying players who would like to operate in similar areas. The five man defense looked overkill against Vieri who would pose no major threat considering the quality of the competition.
I wasn't a fan of Vieri and Charlton as a pseudowinger and the younger Charlton would have been a much better choice for this match and I would have really liked him in that role.
This new setup from EAP looks pretty good. Lizarazu would play as a wing back or at least more offensive to compensate for the lack of width from Rivellino. On the other side Alberto/Jairzinho can't be upgraded and it shouldn't be tampered with.
I don't agree that Sammer should be playing as a centre back here, I prefer Burgnich and Förster even if it isn't perfect either.
Eusebio/Maradona looks very odd, both are ball carrying players who would like to operate in similar areas. The five man defense looked overkill against Vieri who would pose no major threat considering the quality of the competition.
I wasn't a fan of Vieri and Charlton as a pseudowinger and the younger Charlton would have been a much better choice for this match and I would have really liked him in that role.
This new setup from EAP looks pretty good. Lizarazu would play as a wing back or at least more offensive to compensate for the lack of width from Rivellino. On the other side Alberto/Jairzinho can't be upgraded and it shouldn't be tampered with.
I don't agree that Sammer should be playing as a centre back here, I prefer Burgnich and Förster even if it isn't perfect either.
I knew @Edgar Allan Pillow 's midfield reminded me of something...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/decades-draft-tournament-aldoraine18-vs-brwned.375872/
It seems, Gullit is their kryptonyte!
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/decades-draft-tournament-aldoraine18-vs-brwned.375872/
It seems, Gullit is their kryptonyte!
I knew @Edgar Allan Pillow 's midfield reminded me of something...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/decades-draft-tournament-aldoraine18-vs-brwned.375872/
It seems, Gullit is their kryptonyte!
42 votes in that game! As a drafting community, it looks like we've done a fine job of alienating and boring the feck out of everyone in the intervening 2 years
I still think their attack is more star power than functional!
Gullit and Maradona will only get onto each others way in this set up. Gullit will end up deeper than Maradona and with no hold up play, don't see them scoring here!
Again with this shite? How on earth is there no hold up play when Gullit is clearly a match for any of your defenders physically? As I posted before regarding Eusebio and Gullit, which you failed to respond to:
We wouldn't mind an answer to our Charlton question as well, even though you have switched things around now.
190 cm tall, built like a tank and a physical specimen, and a proven target man to boot. There maybe issues in that front three, mainly with Diego and Eusebio, but hold up play isn't one of them. The Tulip is towering above the rest here.
Voted EAP. TBF I probably would have done before his change. His side is more cohesive than Pat/Skizz's. I actually think Platini would have been a better option in this setup: Eusebio and Gullit pull wide and allow Platini to score serious amounts of goals.
11-6 to 11-10. EAP working his (magic).
Eusebio strength was not in playing with his back to the goal, but rather running at Defenders from deep. You'll not get the peak Eusebio here.
What Charlton question? Am in. Mobile and can't find it. Can you quote for me please?
Aye, its a bizarre criticism. I had to check back to make sure we hadn't started Gianfranco Zola and Giovinco up front by mistake!
It isn't significant currently, but you did play a large chunk of the match with an increible set of demands on Charlton.
This is from the beginning of the thread, and has went out the window entirely now that you've dropped Sammer. At this level, Burgnich and Forster are far from ideal in terms of distribution from defence.
He's talking about Gullit.
The brainfart wasn't keeping Torres, the brainfart was dropping Sammer and keeping Burgnich when he is admittedly chasing a game. A catenaccio specialist leading a high line. Yeah, that will work...
It's crazy shit.
Eusebio van Tulippen