If you'd done the decent thing and gotten eliminated Desailly was definitely on our shopping list, and we probably would have played a back four then
You still should man. Chumpitaz is offering you nothing here.
EAP VS Pat/Skizzo - All time 3 year peak - Auction Draft
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
You still should man. Chumpitaz is offering you nothing here.
I've just posted a gif of Eusebio winning a penalty after dribbling down the entire left wing
! Peeling wide was a big feature of his game. I'll post several showing the work that Gullit did from the right wing as well. I've posted a video of Maradona's famous goal against England where he took on half their team from the right wing. They're three of the most mobile forwards imaginable - they're not going to be stood in the centre of the pitch like fecking statues!You're playing a defensive right back at right wing back, and if your playing Charlton at his peak he's going to be playing very centrally. Your argument about this advantage in width begins and ends with Jairzinho, and he was hardly a line hugging winger either.
There's no doubt in my mind that our attack is at least as well balanced as yours and on a different level in terms of individual quality.
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I think they are needed to provide the adequate freedom for Cabrini and Amoros to bomb forward. His wing-backs are his primary source of width and he needs that extra CB/DM to give them all the freedom they need. Not that they were poor defensively or can only provide width in a back 5 but since it is their primary job here, I can see why they opted for a back 5. Tbf, I think a DM would work better as both van Hanegem and Tardelli were pretty decent on the channels/flanks and could provide some 'support' width when needed from their central positions, with a DM behind them.
You still should man. Chumpitaz is offering you nothing here.
We've got Effenberg and Platini on the bench, and neither fit particularly well really. We were madly tempted to go with the Magic Square with Platini and Maradona of course, but given some of the comments about our attack now I'm not convinced it would have went down well.
This discussion is just wrong
Drafted my all-time favorite team before the start, when I considered participating, and both were in there (even though it fecked the balance). They both are equally fantastic and, no doubt about that, are top-top-top players (hi Stevie), the difference between them is not in quality but in their playing style. And who is the better midfielder on the bench? There are no "better midfielders" than Falcao . If it's Rivelino it's strange to compare them, totally different roles on the pitch. Edgar. He's a used car salesman. Half decent one, be it said.But feckin' hell.
Edwards and Charlton are a highly successful, proven combo. Sure. Can't argue with that. If you're a halfwit, that is. Which your opponent ain't, fortunately for him.
Aye, a dedicated DM is the real gap in our squad. There just wasn't a massive amount of options there in the reinforcement pool unfortunately. If Desailly or Rijkaard had been available we'd have been swarming all over them like flies around shite.
Bingo!
I don't agree at all. Lots of offensive wingbacks operated in a back four, including Cabrini and Amoros. You don't need to play three centre backs to enable the fullbacks to move forward.
In particular it's not needed when you have a defender as good as Figueroa and you're only facing a lone striker in Vieri. It's completely unnecessary.
And I'd have pushed you to the full 50 (though you had the cash to splurge). I was desperate after a DM so I don't have to play a back 5 too
But feckin' hell.
Edwards and Charlton are a highly successful, proven combo. Sure. Can't argue with that. If you're a halfwit, that is. Which your opponent ain't, fortunately for him.
He does have a real knack for putting his opponent on the back foot in these debates.
But feckin' hell.
Edwards and Charlton are a highly successful, proven combo. Sure. Can't argue with that. If you're a halfwit, that is. Which your opponent ain't, fortunately for him.
And I'd have pushed you to the full 50 (though you had the cash to splurge). I was desperate after a DM so I don't have to play a back 5 too
We'd have got our man
Oh, I forgot that he had him, shame on me! Well, that's a tough one, but I love Falcao too much.
I've just posted a gif of Eusebio winning a penalty after dribbling down the entire left wing
Well I withdraw my comments about him on left. Still that's fixing the smaller problem...both your forwards are better at operating off a No9. As I mention when you are defending it'll be Gullit suitable to drop back and not Maradona...which kinda screws up your tactics there.
For me, I still rate my midfield duo as more effective to the set up and with Charlton dropping back, we would have advantage in the midfield. Add that to my right wing advantage, we can still penetrate your defence.
Oh, in the midst of this posting rampage I've forgot to mention an obvious change in tactical emphasis. If EAP is sitting back and trying to counter then of course our emphasis changes to the 'quick transition' side of our tactics and away from counter-attacking. We'll still be looking to find Maradona or our front pair quickly, but if the quick break isn't on we're happy to hold onto the ball and probe for openings, with Van Hanegem and one of the wing backs joining the attack.
Aye, Platini is a bit of a mess with Maradona and Eusebio and Gullit. You should have gotten Muller, even without Platini the team is still shouting out of a #9.
I'd still probably play Platini or Effenberg ahead of Chumpitaz though. I just don't think he's adding much and even though they aren't great fits I see the others contributing more.
Went for Pat/Skizzo.
About their attack - it's a perfect set-up for Platini, and less so for Maradona. I don't think that the gap between them was that big, and 100% of Platini here would've been better than 90% of Maradona, in my opinion. I understand the urge to get one of the two (three? four?) best players in history, but I still feel that it should've been Platini (who is easily in all-time top 10 himself).
Still, Gullit is the perfect "workhorse" at this level, Eusebio will be floating around in left-central channel and Maradona centrally? Looks more convincing than Pillow's set-up.
It's so hard to vote against Edwards - Falcao
About their attack - it's a perfect set-up for Platini, and less so for Maradona. I don't think that the gap between them was that big, and 100% of Platini here would've been better than 90% of Maradona, in my opinion. I understand the urge to get one of the two (three? four?) best players in history, but I still feel that it should've been Platini (who is easily in all-time top 10 himself).
Still, Gullit is the perfect "workhorse" at this level, Eusebio will be floating around in left-central channel and Maradona centrally? Looks more convincing than Pillow's set-up.
It's so hard to vote against Edwards - Falcao
They both have the skillset to do the No. 9 role just fine. When one of them is dropping wide or deep, the other will be gravitating more towards the centre forward position. Its not a complex tactical instruction - I reckon me and Skizzo could manage it ourselves, never mind Eusebio and Gullit!
So Charlton can drop back without impacting his attacking positioning, but Gulit can't? The right wing argument effectively boils down to a defensive-minded, slightly out of position Carlos Alberto, and Jairzinho, against Cabrini, with support from Van Hanegem and Chumpitaz, with the latter having considerable freedom to come to the left given that Ruggeri and Figueroa can clearly take care of Vieri.
Well Charlton doesn't have Maradona back there, does he? I really don't see your team work well with Gullit dropping back along with Maradona.
Yeah, it most certainly isn't a necessity but it facilitates and provides a better platform for them to focus more on their attacking duties, as they are the sole providers of width for Skizzo/Pat's team.
It's so hard to vote against Edwards - Falcao
Damn right. It's actually a cryin' shame. But it has to be done. Pat and Skizzo offer players I respect (and all that) in the midfield department. Respect. All that. But that is...all.
Edgar's combo, on the other hand, is grand - completely blows that respectable counterpart out of its respectable but practically brackish water. But it's the rest of it.
Not much in it, but just enough for Pat/Skizzo.
Agree completely on the Diego/Platini comments.
But you have Maradona available, what do you do? Play that corrupt French twat? No, you don't. 'Course you don't.
Gullit is a good workhorse normally, but specifically not in this set up. He drops and intrudes into Maradona. And even if he goes wide, he has Kh Forster there. I certainly don't see the best of Gullit in here.
I expect you to draft me next time. 10m opening bid.
I wouldn't expect him to play wb. It's a soaking back 5 and it would/should be primarily Lizarazu foraging.
Carlos was a great playmaker from deep on his flank, and can do that here aiming for a proven partner in Jairzinho and possibly Rivelino if he came on.
He is fine and would have a great game IMO, just not a WB game.
Again, your implying that Maradona is going to be stood still. I've posted a video of his (second) most famous goal, and he picks up the ball deep and on the right wing. There's ample space for Gullit and Maradona. If anything, the criticism would be more valid if we'd played Platini instead, who was much more 'vertical' and rarely drifted wide.
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Anyway, Edgar's done a great job of keeping the focus on perceived flaws in our frontline, while ignoring the elephant in the room.
Vieri is a weak selection in this company, and he couldn't be facing worse opponents stylistically. All three of our centre backs are strong and excellent in the air, particularly Ruggeri and Figueroa. In fact, I'd argue that out of the elite tier central defenders, Figueroa is the worst possible match up for him. With Beckenbauer and Baresi for example, he might just get some joy due to his physicality and height respectively, depending on who they were partnered with. With Figueroa, he's screwed basically. Figueroa was tall, powerful and a beast aerially.
Its not as if he's going to get any joy drifting onto one of the other centre backs either. Ruggeri is absolutely in his element in a bruising battle against a physical centre forward.
In the absence of any other physically powerful forwards, he needs a striker who can hold the ball up and bring others into play - he admits so himself:
Vieri is simply facing a much higher calibre of opposition who match up brilliantly against him stylistically, and as they dominate him with relative ease, EAP's attacking game plan unravels.
Vieri is a weak selection in this company, and he couldn't be facing worse opponents stylistically. All three of our centre backs are strong and excellent in the air, particularly Ruggeri and Figueroa. In fact, I'd argue that out of the elite tier central defenders, Figueroa is the worst possible match up for him. With Beckenbauer and Baresi for example, he might just get some joy due to his physicality and height respectively, depending on who they were partnered with. With Figueroa, he's screwed basically. Figueroa was tall, powerful and a beast aerially.
Its not as if he's going to get any joy drifting onto one of the other centre backs either. Ruggeri is absolutely in his element in a bruising battle against a physical centre forward.
In the absence of any other physically powerful forwards, he needs a striker who can hold the ball up and bring others into play - he admits so himself:
Vieri is simply facing a much higher calibre of opposition who match up brilliantly against him stylistically, and as they dominate him with relative ease, EAP's attacking game plan unravels.
Come on., you're making Maradona a Rivelino here. He is a predominantly central AM.
Deep on the Right Wing is where Gullit drifts as per your tactics, right?
The elephant is your attack. I've mentioned and emphasised on Charlton and Jairzinho being able to score, but you just negate Vieri and assume things are ok. Maybe Figueroa will get the better of Vieri, but Charlton and Jairzinho as capable of breaching your defense.
I've just posted the quotes where you emphasised the importance of Vieri in bringing Charlton and Jairzinho into play! So all of a sudden he's irrelevant to how they perform?
Nope, he's more mobile and better than Rivelino. Here's another great goal where he drifts to the left channel:
They're not hard to come by either. Its insane to me that I'm having to argue that Maradona was a playmaker who operated across the entire width of the pitch.
A point you made during your last match that we'd like clarified:
Where exactly is he playing here, and what are his peak years? In this thread, variously, he's contributing to this supposed advantage in width, dropping back into midfield to give you numerical superiority, being a primary goalscorer now that Vieri is up against it with Figueroa.
As great as Charlton was, against this calibre of opposition you're asking a hell of alot from him.
Also, you mentioned that Forster will be tracking Gullit when he drifts to the right wing.
Given that Gullit is more than comfortable operating as an orthodox right winger, how far do you want Forster to track him before passing him over to Lizarazu? If Forster follows him all the way out, as you've implied, then you potentially open yourself up to a 2vs2 with Maradona/Eusebio vs Burgnich/Sammer.
Where exactly is he playing here, and what are his peak years? In this thread, variously, he's contributing to this supposed advantage in width, dropping back into midfield to give you numerical superiority, being a primary goalscorer now that Vieri is up against it with Figueroa.
As great as Charlton was, against this calibre of opposition you're asking a hell of alot from him.
Also, you mentioned that Forster will be tracking Gullit when he drifts to the right wing.
Given that Gullit is more than comfortable operating as an orthodox right winger, how far do you want Forster to track him before passing him over to Lizarazu? If Forster follows him all the way out, as you've implied, then you potentially open yourself up to a 2vs2 with Maradona/Eusebio vs Burgnich/Sammer.
But feckin' hell.
Edwards and Charlton are a highly successful, proven combo. Sure. Can't argue with that. If you're a halfwit, that is. Which your opponent ain't, fortunately for him.
It's a bad choice of words. Would you disagree that two classic Busby men would find it easy to play alongside each other? I don't. I once put together a team that had largely not played together but were all Dutch school Barca/Ajax players. I would expect them to gel myself, wouldn't you?
It's a bad choice of words. Would you disagree that two classic Busby men would find it easy to play alongside each other? I don't. I once put together a team that had largely not played together but were all Dutch school Barca/Ajax players. I would expect them to gel myself, wouldn't you?
To that extent, its a valid point. But then the Van Hanegem/Gullit axis becomes equally valid. Two Dutch school Total Football types, both of whom integrate perfectly with the versatile, quick transition tactics we're implementing. Well rounded players with the tactical intelligence to find space and cover for other players who roam out of position. It makes most of the shit we copped for earlier regarding our attack look absurd.
I see that EAP's would get the majority of ball, and their play is more fluid from back to the front.
Pat/Skizzo do have more scorer
Up front, though, that can win match on their own.
I just think EAP's is more flexible in their style.
Pat/Skizzo do have more scorer
Up front, though, that can win match on their own.
I just think EAP's is more flexible in their style.
He is giving up the majority of the ball as he said he'll be playing on the Counter. so he will be hoping to try and soak up pressure and spring forward. Good in theory, but the last person you want to be conceding possession to is Maradona. He doesn't have anyone on him man marking, and is just hoping to crowd him out somehow. With Eusebio ahead of him, we have plenty of goals in us.
At the other end, our defence isn't likely to be breached by Vieiri, and if he can't hold the ball up for Charlton to arrive in the box (which honestly, he really cant. He's far out of his depth here) then that leaves Jairzinho as his main threat. Which works well when you have someone like Pelé to take defenders away from you...But here, our defence would be rather comfortable dealing with his offensive threat.
Thanks for the feedback though! Just wanted to address it
He's stated that he's playing as a counter-attacking side, and Vieri is going to see very little of the ball. I just don't see his tactics working at all, and I see very little flexibility in his set up.
EDIT: I see the gaffer has responded to your post already, so sorry for the double team!
I don't like Pat/Skizzo's set up, but their names will probably win this on their own. Will probably not vote. EAP may have benched the wrong people here.