Downing to Liverpool?

Goal Assist
The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball scoring a goal.

Key Pass
The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring.

Chances Created
Assists plus key passes.

Really shit definition of key pass BTW, I thought it meant what it said.
 
jrsenior said:
Redcafe: Young 15M, very good player. Downing 20M, overpriced, mediocre player.
RAWK: Young 18M, overpriced, mediocre player. Downing 18M, very good player.

Football fans...
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Before either looked certain to go anywhere, I would have been equally happy with either. They are at the same level imo.

Young had a year left on his contract, so obviously cheaper.
 
B9 said:
Before either looked certain to go anywhere, I would have been equally happy with either. They are at the same level imo.

Young had a year left on his contract, so obviously cheaper.
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Young has a lot more to his game. He is two footed and can score goals.

Downing is more of a kick, run and cross type player who tracks back. An upgraded Albert Riera.
 
Young is far more talented than Downing. Liverpool are buying all of the wrong players. Downing will just end up on the end of a long list of failed wingers in recent times at Anfield.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Yes but it doesn't take into account bad or inaccurate crosses.

A cross maybe bad and may lead to a player heading the ball straight at the keeper.

Now the header is on target but had the player crossed better the striker may have scored. Infact this sort of thing happens all the time with wingers. Yet this would count as a "created chance" eventhough its a bad cross in reality.

Very ambiguous and doesn't say much at all IMO.
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Oh no, I agree. The fact that Davies is second from top tells me it's not really worth paying any attention to. I very much doubt this was a big factor in Comolli signing him, I suspect their statistical analysis is a bit more complex than a stat as basic as this. It's probably what they looked at 10 years ago.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Young has a lot more to his game. He is two footed and can score goals.

Downing is more of a kick, run and cross type player who tracks back. An upgraded Albert Riera.
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I could swear that Young was described as a kick and run type of player on here.
Before we bought him that is.
 
So Malouda created almost twice as many chances as Nani, but Nani had more than three times as many assist. Torres' fault?
 
Or Malouda played a lot a shit balls that were never likely to be scored from. Or Malouda played a lot of balls to Lampard who hit a pile of crap shots that weren't deflected in for a change. Meaningless crap stat in short.
 
Brwned said:
Oh no, I agree. The fact that Davies is second from top tells me it's not really worth paying any attention to. I very much doubt this was a big factor in Comolli signing him, I suspect their statistical analysis is a bit more complex than a stat as basic as this. It's probably what they looked at 10 years ago.
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I agree that we are obviously not ordering a stat block from OPTA, checking up on 'chances created' and deciding he is worth going for. There will be a number of stats assessed, probably some of them of the proprietary kind not yet in use by public stat companies such as OPTA to see what kind of synergies can be exploited, in conjunction with scout assessments.

But it is interesting that both Henderson and Downing seem to score high in this stat. And also not coincidental that in the long term, it is some of the best and highest profile players in the league who top those charts. Although it is probably not that exact stat being used, I do think it suggests that it is stats centering around the final ball that are probably in high currency with Commoli.
 
Plan M said:
Young is far more talented than Downing. Liverpool are buying all of the wrong players. Downing will just end up on the end of a long list of failed wingers in recent times at Anfield.
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Don't forget they wouldn't be signing Downing had they not failed to sign Young.
 
Wow, 20m for Downing. Talk about inflated prices these days. He really isn't good and I don't understand how the scousers can be happy to spend that much money on these players. They should be more critical. I could never become like that, I guess I'm too down to earth. Like us signing Young and Jones, I'm still not sure about those signings of us (especially for those signing fees).

Unless they sign 2 top top class players, I can't see Liverpool competing for the trophies, especially not with players like Henderson, Caroll, Adam and Downing. I'm all for adding players for strength in depth, but squad players shouldn't cost a combined value of, 80m+. For this money you could (and should) add real quality.
 
B9 said:
But it is interesting that both Henderson and Downing seem to score high in this stat. And also not coincidental that in the long term, it is some of the best and highest profile players in the league who top those charts. Although it is probably not that exact stat being used, I do think it suggests that it is stats centering around the final ball that are probably in high currency with Commoli.
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Just a slight tangent, but how do you see your team lining up next season?

I for one can't see how you will fit Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson, Adam, Downing, Suarez and Carroll (possibly Kuyt as well) in a front six that makes sense.

This is assuming Meireles is leaving.
 
Bryan, I would agree with that. Young would have been ideal for us, but you obviously made your move even though you had more pressing needs elsewhere - can't blame Young for choosing you. On the flip side Downing will still be a 10x better option than we have now (Maxi, Cole, Jovanovic). Doesn't make him world class, just shows our current options as utter, utter sh*t right now.

Unam - we clearly had/have £85m to spend. But no 'quality' players as you put it want to come right now. We're not in CL. This point often gets overlooked.
 
Unam333 said:
Wow, 20m for Downing. Talk about inflated prices these days. He really isn't good and I don't understand how the scousers can be happy to spend that much money for these players.
Unless they sign 2 top top class players, I can't see Liverpool competing for the trophies, especially not with players like Henderson, Caroll, Adam and Downing. I'm all for adding players for strength in depth, but squad players shouldn't cost a combined value of, 80m+. For this money you could (and should) add real quality.
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They have hardly kicked a ball for Liverpool, who knows if they will be squad players or key parts of the first team.
 
Dumpstar said:
Bryan, I would agree with that. Young would have been ideal for us, but you obviously made your move even though you had more pressing needs elsewhere - can't blame Young for choosing you. On the flip side Downing will still be a 10x better option than we have now (Maxi, Cole, Jovanovic). Doesn't make him world class, just shows our current options as utter, utter sh*t right now.

Unam - we clearly had/have £85m to spend. But no 'quality' players as you put it want to come right now. We're not in CL. This point often gets overlooked.
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Well, at least you're spending. That's the most important thing. Liverpool as a squad has improved compared to last season. That's the most important thing.

Of course the jury is still out there, I could be wrong and 1 or 2 would do a great job for you.
 
Allforone said:
By a country mile, its a laughable comparison, Youngs clearly a far more gifted and all round much much better player.
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There's not that much in it - Young is more gifted but Downing is more consistent and hardworking.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Just a slight tangent, but how do you see your team lining up next season?

I for one can't see how you will fit Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson, Adam, Downing, Suarez and Carroll (possibly Kuyt as well) in a front six that makes sense.

This is assuming Meireles is leaving.
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I see us lining up in different formations as much as we have so far under Kenny. My guess is Henderson and Kuyt will be warming the bench a bit more than Lucas, Adam, Gerrard, Downing, Suarez and Carroll. But it's obvious that part of the strategy was to also strengthen the squad depth to after being seriously eroded over the past few years. Now we have viable firstteamers on the bench.

fwiw, I wouldn't be surprised to see another winger or striker added to the mix before the end of this window. Or for one of Meireles and Aquilani to stay put (hopefully the latter).
 
average player in an average team. They will beat most of the shite out there though and look to stifle good sides.

Any Liverpool fan truly happy with this signing is just showing how far they have fallen.

Ecstatic.
 
peterstorey said:
There's not that much in it - Young is more gifted but Downing is more consistent and hardworking.
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There really is a clear and obvious gap in quality when you watch both on the pitch, Downing is a very average one dimensional winger who does one thing, Young is more versatile, quicker, far more skillfull and consistently delivers better end product, im pretty sure Youngs stats over the last few years better those of downings both in terms of goals and assists.

I really dont think theres any debate on who the better player is between those two, ones now a regular and shining at International level, the others Stewart Downing...
 
DFreshKing said:
average player in an average team. They will beat most of the shite out there though and look to stifle good sides.

Any Liverpool fan truly happy with this signing is just showing how far they have fallen.

Ecstatic.
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We took more points off the top 4 last season than the bottom 4.

Some flat track bullies would be welcome.
 
Allforone said:
There really is a clear and obvious gap in quality when you watch both on the pitch, Downing is a very average 1 dimensional winger who does 1 thing, Young is more versatile, quicker, far more skillfull and consistently delivers better end product, im pretty sure Youngs stats over the last few years better those of downings.

I really dont think theres any debate on who the better player is between those two, ones now a regular and shining at International level, the others Stewart Downing...
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Well, Villa fans seemed to be having that debate and had them coming out as fairly equal players.
 
Downing is a good player... but he is not worth 20 million. No chance.
 
Dumpstar said:
Bryan, I would agree with that. Young would have been ideal for us, but you obviously made your move even though you had more pressing needs elsewhere - can't blame Young for choosing you. On the flip side Downing will still be a 10x better option than we have now (Maxi, Cole, Jovanovic). Doesn't make him world class, just shows our current options as utter, utter sh*t right now.

Unam - we clearly had/have £85m to spend. But no 'quality' players as you put it want to come right now. We're not in CL. This point often gets overlooked.
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Downing is underrated in my opinion, should provide plenty of crosses for Carroll.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Downing is underrated in my opinion, should provide plenty of crosses for Carroll.
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It seems like the scousers are putting a lot of eggs in one basket though. A lot depends on how well Carroll plays now. He could very well struggle for them and they dont really have any one else playing the target man game.
 
B9 said:
Well, Villa fans seemed to be having that debate and had them coming out as fairly equal players.
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He's reliable and thats about it. Never rated him at middlesborough to be fair so hardly gonna shine a torch up his arse now.

Your building a strong side a bit like shitty two years ago to me. I don't think its enough for a title challenge though unless we have a stinker.

Chelsea are unknown with the newbie and Arsenal will probably flatter to deceive. Shitty are the biggest threat as they are a year ahead of the curve and may still add another 20 players.
 
jrsenior said:
It seems like the scousers are putting a lot of eggs in one basket though. A lot depends on how well Carroll plays now. He could very well struggle for them and they dont really have any one else playing the target man game.
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Though the obvious use of Downing is Carroll's headers, is Downing really that inept as a footballer that this is the ONLY thing we're going to use him for? Can he run a bit, pass, maybe shoot himself?
 
A poor man's Valencia for me. Can get past a man and put a cross in for them, will track back and be fairly solid defensively. Pretty one-footed.

He'll be a good addition to their squad, it's difficult to argue that, but he's not going to set the world alight that's for sure. The fact the fans are happy with them paying £20m for a player of his stature speaks volumes though. They could push for top 4 but will most likely miss out on it IMO.
 
Joey Mac said:
A poor man's Valencia for me. Can get past a man and put a cross in for them, will track back and be fairly solid defensively. Pretty one-footed.

He'll be a good addition to their squad, it's difficult to argue that, but he's not going to set the world alight that's for sure. The fact the fans are happy with them paying £20m for a player of his stature speaks volumes though. They could push for top 4 but will most likely miss out on it IMO.
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This is only a perception on rival football sites and possibly RAWK (which is worse than a rival football site).
 
Allforone said:
There really is a clear and obvious gap in quality when you watch both on the pitch, Downing is a very average one dimensional winger who does one thing, Young is more versatile, quicker, far more skillfull and consistently delivers better end product, im pretty sure Youngs stats over the last few years better those of downings both in terms of goals and assists.

I really dont think theres any debate on who the better player is between those two, ones now a regular and shining at International level, the others Stewart Downing...
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You've changed your tune in the last six months.

Allforone said:
N'Zogbia is a very good player, not one we need of course but id much rather him than be linked with shite like Ashley Young.
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