Donny Van de Beek

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The signing made no sense given we have 2 of the best attacking midfielders around already at the club. It wasn't a priority position even if he had performed well the only benefit you were ever going to get out of it was Bruno might get a nice rest every now and then... When we already had Pogba who could deputise that AM role. Was it really worth it?

We should have tried him in the deep midfield role at least a few times to see whether he can perform in that role, but Ole has refused and it's likely too late in the season now to find out whether he's up to it, so it's best to move him on and use the money for new signings.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
If you look through the various threads you will see people saying ole can't coach the patterns of play to get the best out of beek. It has become a joke over the months but that was a very serious narrative a while back
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Ah. Well, I think the middle ground is inevitable in the sense the loss we would take this summer would be hard to justify when the other option is to give him another chance.

The only way I can see a different outcome is if he is too unhappy or unwilling to fight to turn things around, or that the management think him to be so poor and unlikely to do so that we should get rid for the benefit of all concerned. Fred fought to turn things around and is a combative player, VDBs path may be somewhat different. It is not even clear where we play VDB in an attempt to clarify matters.
 
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Abraxas said:
Ah. Well, I think the middle ground is inevitable in the sense the loss we would take this summer would be hard to justify when the other option is to give him another chance.

The only way I can see a different outcome is if he is too unhappy or unwilling to fight to turn things around, or that the management think him to be so poor and unlikely to do so that we should get rid for the benefit of all concerned. Fred fought to turn things around and is a combative player, VDBs path may be somewhat different. It is not even clear where we play VDB in an attempt to clarify matters.
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True. Hopefully we find a slot that works well for him
 
Scholsey2004 said:
When we went in for him I thought he was overhyped off the back of the Real Madrid interest. I honestly dont see a difference in quality between van de Beek and Cleverley. If Cleverley had been playing for Ajax in the Eredivisie hed have looked just as good IMO.
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Agreed. They did the same with players like Tadic. The only bad signing under Ole in my opinion.
 
Hughes35 said:
Agreed. They did the same with players like Tadic. The only bad signing under Ole in my opinion.
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What do you exactly mean with 'players like Tadic'?

Are you referring to Tadic swimming along in the stream of a good Ajax team?

Tadic is and has been the boss of this Ajax team since the second he came here. He is the player which creates the wave other players - if any - are swimming along with...
 
2 man midfield said:
Hasn’t worked out has it. Reckon Ajax would give us 20m during a pandemic?
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In a heartbeat mate..

And we will probably sell him again in 3 years for 40 million to Bayern or something.. The fact that Donny isnt making it at United at the moment can have many reasons, but it doesnt mean he is a bad player... Im very convinced there are top teams in top leagues in which he would still be very valuable.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
In a heartbeat mate..

And we will probably sell him again in 3 years for 40 million to Bayern or something.. The fact that Donny isnt making it at United at the moment can have many reasons, but it doesnt mean he is a bad player... Im very convinced there are top teams in top leagues in which he would still be very valuable.
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Of course you would.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
What do you exactly mean with 'players like Tadic'?

Are you referring to Tadic swimming along in the stream of a good Ajax team?

Tadic is and has been the boss of this Ajax team since the second he came here. He is the player which creates the wave other players - if any - are swimming along with...
Click to expand...

I more meant that Tadic was / is a good player but Ajax seem able to really bring the best out of players and make decent players look great players.

An overly simple way of looking at it but Tadic for Southampton was 20 goals in 134 appearances. Tadic for Ajax is 53 goals in 91.

It very much looks that the Ajax factor in DVB's case was making a below average player look decent.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
What do you exactly mean with 'players like Tadic'?

Are you referring to Tadic swimming along in the stream of a good Ajax team?

Tadic is and has been the boss of this Ajax team since the second he came here. He is the player which creates the wave other players - if any - are swimming along with...
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You made me think of this
 
I don't see the sense in keeping him here another year. Bruno plays too many games and is too effective for us for DvB to ever stake a claim in that position. Pogba can play in that same spot, Sancho too if we sign him. Sell him now while we can still get a decent chunk of money back.
 
He's like Aaron Ramsey without the ability or confidence, goals via runs from deep is the only way he's going to make it at Utd but I don't think Ole will move away from the two runners in midfield
 
He has hardly had a chance in the first team, has he? One of our problems has been breaking down organised defences. One of his assets is his awareness of space in and around the box, and quick passing to exploit it. I'd rather see him be allowed to show that before we talk about getting rid. The issue may be that as long as we play with a two man pivot it will be difficult to find a place for him on the pitch.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
In a heartbeat mate..

And we will probably sell him again in 3 years for 40 million to Bayern or something.. The fact that Donny isnt making it at United at the moment can have many reasons, but it doesnt mean he is a bad player... Im very convinced there are top teams in top leagues in which he would still be very valuable.
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Oh no by no means do I think he’s a bad player. I was made up when we signed him as I’d seen how important he was for you guys in Europe. I thought he’d be a shrewd alternative to Grealish, but for whatever reason it just hasn’t happened for him here. Probably best for all parties if he’s allowed to return to Ajax and pick up where he left off.
 
Hoping to see him Get a good 7 minutes this evening where He plays the ball sideways 4 or 5 times because he is scared he wont get 8 minutes next week. 7 minutes should allow him enough time to Run into space about 3 times pointing only to be ignored
 
Having watched the united goal of the season video, he was quite involved in the goals against brighton and newcastle earlier in the season.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/goal-of-the-season-2020-21.462713/

Real pity he hasn't kicked on from that, he did seem like he had promise. Now seems to be totally devoid of confidence.
Ole eventually turned Fred around last season, maybe he can do the same with VdB eventually.

P.S.
Have any players from that 18/19 "golden generation" Ajax team really stood out since then. Admittedly I haven't really paid much attention
 
ThreeCorners said:
Having watched the united goal of the season video, he was quite involved in the goals against brighton and newcastle earlier in the season.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/goal-of-the-season-2020-21.462713/

Real pity he hasn't kicked on from that, he did seem like he had promise. Now seems to be totally devoid of confidence.
Ole eventually turned Fred around last season, maybe he can do the same with VdB eventually.
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Would absolutely love that.

Could certainly be the old "like a new signing" that people throw out. Been so disappointed with his minutes this campaign; if I were in his position I'd be wondering why exactly this Ole geezer brought me in last summer
 
mancsarered said:
Would absolutely love that.

Could certainly be the old "like a new signing" that people throw out. Been so disappointed with his minutes this campaign; if I were in his position I'd be wondering why exactly this Ole geezer brought me in last summer
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Is that really a healthy perspective for the player to have?

It seems to create an element of fault and place it squarely with the manager. The problem being that every time the manager does give him and his competition minutes he seems be proven right in his assessments. Both in that VDBs performances are so poor it is hard to select him and that his competition are doing decent jobs.

I think if he is to turn it around he has to focus on what is hindering his own performances in training and on the pitch. At this point it is not going to be the case that he gets a run of 10 games to comfortably bed in so the argument people have that he needs a consistent run may be true but it isn't going to magically happen. It's a case of he needs to go out there and make some kind of impact on the game in order to get his name into the mix for selection. Which isn't an unrealistic expectation.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
In a heartbeat mate..

And we will probably sell him again in 3 years for 40 million to Bayern or something.. The fact that Donny isnt making it at United at the moment can have many reasons, but it doesnt mean he is a bad player... Im very convinced there are top teams in top leagues in which he would still be very valuable.
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Similiar situation to Davey Klassen. Went to Everton and didnt make it but then went and had a good few seasons in Germany and has probably been Ajax's best player this season.
I can't see Ajax taking him back as Kudus is the long tern "10" for Ajax. Donny could do well at a team like Leverkusen on Monchengladbach
 
I'll keep repeating this, there's no point in keeping him. Is not only about him not performing is also about him doesn't suiting our style. He cant play in the pivot nor is creative enough to play in Bruno's spot, never mind Bruno plays almost every single minute.

So his best shot is to play on the wings, which have Rashford, James, Greenwood, Pogba ahead of Jim in the pecking order. With the rumors about us pursuing a RW this summer and the possible inclusion of Amad and Pellistri I mean what's even the point in keeping him?

Every month that passes gets his value lower and lower, just sell him try to get some of the money back and use that money to buy a player that fits the tactics.
 
SAFMUTD said:
I'll keep repeating this, there's no point in keeping him. Is not only about him not performing is also about him doesn't suiting our style. He cant play in the pivot nor is creative enough to play in Bruno's spot, never mind Bruno plays almost every single minute.

So his best shot is to play on the wings, which have Rashford, James, Greenwood, Pogba ahead of Jim in the pecking order. With the rumors about us pursuing a RW this summer and the possible inclusion of Amad and Pellistri I mean what's even the point in keeping him?

Every month that passes gets his value lower and lower, just sell him try to get some of the money back and use that money to buy a player that fits the tactics.
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Yeah I’m never usually one to not give a player a chance, I just don’t think that’s the problem here. It’s a systems thing.

If we can get good money for him and use that to strengthen the key areas we need to them I would seriously consider that.

Not a bad player but a bad fit.
 
Would have got more value from Donny Osman.

he’s done for this season. Hopefully we will see a different player next season.

I assume he’s not going to the Euros? Needs to get his arse in gear over the summer.
 
He can’t be this bad, surely it’s just a combination of circumstances. I watched him a few times for Ajax and he looked superb. I think he just needs a run of games and to find a defined role in the team, ala Fred.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Would have got more value from Donny Osman.

he’s done for this season. Hopefully we will see a different player next season.

I assume he’s not going to the Euros? Needs to get his arse in gear over the summer.
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At this point I will took prime leon osman rather than him.
 
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