Donny Van de Beek

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Ali Dia said:
I think Werner looks much more like kicking on next season at this moment in time. I can’t write Donny off yet but I’m not sure. In his last few cameos he was very aggressive. He starts and then he just seems to think all he has to do is short pass the oppo to sleep. I think he’s actually confused about what he’s supposed to do in our setup. It didn’t help that Pogba and Fred were all over the shop too. They are 2 starters they should have been guiding him through the game but they were also very poor.
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The problem is, at best we're looking at a Mata ( 2017 to present) type that still doesn't really work for us. No pace, no dribbling, poor passing range and not even willing to take risks. He's not a player that moves arent working for like Di Maria was. He didn't get injured prior like Falcao or Schweinsteiger. There's literally not enough there to suggest he could be anything more than a squad player for us.
 
ThehatchetMan said:
People need to get off his back, the witch hunt is pathetic.

I think because he's had so few minutes that every cameo or appearance he does get he comes under extra scrutiny and people are expecting a match winning performance even when he's played out of position.

His last handful of cameos before today have actually been pretty good. Unless he's getting regular minutes though, he's going to struggle to hit the ground running.

I think he's had a very professional attitude this season and I hope he proves alot of people wrong next season.
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Agree about his previous cameos he looked on form before today to be fair to him, and I thought he was taking more responsibility on the ball.
 
red woppit said:
My god, you have it in for Fred so much its clouded any realistic thoughts you have about the match. A Fred mistake gives them an opportunity to shoot, and he struck it really well, that's the only mistake I remember him making.
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read the posts beforehand. The first sentence was about the start of their careers - not tonight.

It’s not really debatable that Fred was poor in his first season. He was poor tonight - but for him I’m not taking too much stock from it given the situation.

For DVDB he had a chance that he needed to grasp, and he didn’t.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
People saying he's not good are ignorant He's quality but he's a system player
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I love the system player argument!

sonic he has the right system that suits him, the right players around him, the right manager - then he’s a good player. Doesn’t that apply to every single player? Unfortunately life owing perfect, and good players have at least some adaptability.
 
If he makes it here, it won't be in advanced position. Certainly not as a fake-winger or whatever role we wanted him to fit into tonight. This 4222 formation works because of Pogba on the left, makes no sense otherwise.

I can see some strong sides for him, he drops to midfield to receive the ball but is ignored because we don't płay that way.
 
tjb said:
The problem is, at best we're looking at a Mata ( 2017 to present) type that still doesn't really work for us. No pace, no dribbling, poor passing range and not even willing to take risks. He's not a player that moves arent working for like Di Maria was. He didn't get injured prior like Falcao or Schweinsteiger. There's literally not enough there to suggest he could be anything more than a squad player for us.
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I hear you but I still think it’s still a little too early to call but the indications are mixed Just given his age and his position he could still improve a lot in his mid 20s but I have my doubts about his aggression and confidence. Let’s see how he does next season but I could also easily see him being another Kagawa or Miki flop- system dependant. He was 35 million and we will get most of it back if we sell. It’s not like he’s another Keita at least!
 
Looks totally lost. Feel for the lad as I think he's a decent player but it's just not working out. Needs to leave for his own sake as he's not getting much game time for us next season either.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Looks totally lost. Feel for the lad as I think he's a decent player but it's just not working out. Needs to leave for his own sake as he's not getting much game time for us next season either.
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He does look lost doesnt he. I think he has good technique and works hard, but people saying he is clever....just dont see it at all. He just looks neat and tidy, thought he was over rated before we even signed him, but judging on his performances for us, he seems weaker in areas I didnt expect.

Disagree on feeling for him and having to move on for the sake of his career. Got a move to one of the biggest clubs in the world, on a great salary, fantastic opportunity and he isnt taking it. All this "so and so position doesnt suit him", he has player 3 different positions already, admittedly for a very short period of time...what position does suit him then?

Have sumpathy for some like Fosuh-Mensah, a talented youngster that looked an outstanding centre back prospect.......and a piss porr right back, always played at right back. That is someone should move for the sake of there career while young. But VDB who should maybe move for his sake as he hasnt taken his fleeting opportunities and in all honesty isnt anything special anyway.....harsh, but no so, I dont feel for him
 
jesperjaap said:
He does look lost doesnt he. I think he has good technique and works hard, but people saying he is clever....just dont see it at all. He just looks neat and tidy, thought he was over rated before we even signed him, but judging on his performances for us, he seems weaker in areas I didnt expect.

Disagree on feeling for him and having to move on for the sake of his career. Got a move to one of the biggest clubs in the world, on a great salary, fantastic opportunity and he isnt taking it. All this "so and so position doesnt suit him", he has player 3 different positions already, admittedly for a very short period of time...what position does suit him then?

Have sumpathy for some like Fosuh-Mensah, a talented youngster that looked an outstanding centre back prospect.......and a piss porr right back, always played at right back. That is someone should move for the sake of there career while young. But VDB who should maybe move for his sake as he hasnt taken his fleeting opportunities and in all honesty isnt anything special anyway.....harsh, but no so, I dont feel for him
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Some players just suit certain systems and certain ways of playing.

I think he'd look far better than he has for us playing in a team that plays more tippy tappy stuff.

Doesn't make him a bad player for not working out. Just means he's not what we need.
 
He needs to step up big time next season. Poor again tonight.
 
His style doesn’t suit us.

I wouldn’t mind to make him as part of the swap deal plus cash with Sancho. I also wouldn’t even mind to do straight swap deal with Kessie, AC Milan might need a no 10 as Hakan could leave for free this summer.

I don’t think it will hurt his feeling if we use him as part of the swap deal. Dortmund and Milan are still big club and it’s better playing regular than sitting on the bench watching Pogba, Bruno & Rashford.
 
dal said:
If he stays, I do feel Ole will improve him.

He needs to get a lot stronger, so physique is the first thing and mentality is the second.
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Why you bumping this thread without any transfer news to offer? There is a player thread to discuss him.
 
ThehatchetMan said:
People need to get off his back, the witch hunt is pathetic.

I think because he's had so few minutes that every cameo or appearance he does get he comes under extra scrutiny and people are expecting a match winning performance even when he's played out of position.

His last handful of cameos before today have actually been pretty good. Unless he's getting regular minutes though, he's going to struggle to hit the ground running.

I think he's had a very professional attitude this season and I hope he proves alot of people wrong next season.
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Really pathetic from posters on this thread. Embarrassing to read the posts here
 
I swear he has a jealous twin brother that was absolutely awful at Football who has taken him hostage and is now living out his life as a Footballer. It's the only plausible thing I can think of. This isn't the same guy that was at Ajax.
 
Said it a while ago. I have never been more certain that a player can't turn it around at a club.

He show's absolutely nothing. Just cut our losses, get a bit of money back in and invest it elsewhere.
 
Guys, it's his first season. Give him some time.

Fred was sub-par for us in his first season. Maguire and AWB (were good in their first season) but they've obviously gone up a few levels this season. Lindelof was poor in his first season, too.

Not every player is like Bruno and can hit the ground running putting MotM performances in.

I'm sure Donny will come good, but he needs a bit more time and a run of games. It's hard standing out when you're given irregular minutes. If we were to sign a DM and play a midfield 3 of DM, Donny and Bruno, I think we'd see his best form.
 
I thought he was fine in the first half, made a great run to setup the chance for fernandes.

2nd half he was left isolated, and clearly he isn’t athletic enough to play that position. I have no idea why we keep playing him on the wing, it just seems like a waste of what he’s good at.
 
We need to sell and be shrewd. It’s just not a fit and it was a totally unnecessary signing in the first place. There’s a good player in there but we’d be far better off getting money and using it on players we really need to take us up a level. He’s never going to do that.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I thought he was fine in the first half, made a great run to setup the chance for fernandes.

2nd half he was left isolated, and clearly he isn’t athletic enough to play that position. I have no idea why we keep playing him on the wing, it just seems like a waste of what he’s good at.
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Agree with this, first half he was alright, should be in the centre.
 
If we sell him now it’d be at a major loss, he’s been so poor. He’ll get at least another season because he can’t get any worse anyway, hopefully he kicks on.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
read the posts beforehand. The first sentence was about the start of their careers - not tonight.

It’s not really debatable that Fred was poor in his first season. He was poor tonight - but for him I’m not taking too much stock from it given the situation.

For DVDB he had a chance that he needed to grasp, and he didn’t.
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I was commenting on your quote that 'he was poor again tonight', what has that to do with any posts beforehand.
 
Hughes35 said:
Said it a while ago. I have never been more certain that a player can't turn it around at a club.

He show's absolutely nothing. Just cut our losses, get a bit of money back in and invest it elsewhere.
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When we went in for him I thought he was overhyped off the back of the Real Madrid interest. I honestly dont see a difference in quality between van de Beek and Cleverley. If Cleverley had been playing for Ajax in the Eredivisie hed have looked just as good IMO.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
When we went in for him I thought he was overhyped off the back of the Real Madrid interest. I honestly dont see a difference in quality between van de Beek and Cleverley. If Cleverley had been playing for Ajax in the Eredivisie hed have looked just as good IMO.
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I don’t either.

I would love @Hughes35 to be right - and perhaps he can be righteous on 12 months. But i just don’t see any outstanding qualities that he possesses.
 
To people defending him - ask yourselves, would you rather have Herrera instead of Donny?

Its amazing how we sold a terrific mentality player like Herrera and got Donny for 40m.

Dvdb does not have a good first touch, can not play a long ball, often misplaces simple passes, can not shoot.
He’s technically one of the worst players we’ve had with such a huge reputation. With Mkhi, Kagawa you could see the quality-

Donny is just a nothing player all round. I don’t see one quality that would make me back him - what do you guys see honestly?
 
I think he has a lot more to offer but obviously he hasn't done well enough to earn the regular place he needs to show it. Looks low on confidence and sharpness but not on ability.
 
sincher said:
I think he has a lot more to offer but obviously he hasn't done well enough to earn the regular place he needs to show it. Looks low on confidence and sharpness but not on ability.
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What ability have you seen ? I’m honestly interested to know - maybe i’ve missed it. He moves around well but apart from that where and what is the ability?
 
snk123 said:
What ability have you seen ? I’m honestly interested to know - maybe i’ve missed it. He moves around well but apart from that where and what is the ability?
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He hasn't shown very much for us but was very good at Ajax. In some of the early games before his confidence went he looked bright, passed the ball well, made good runs.

I am not sure it will happen for United but I see a good all-round player there.

If he were only a bit more dynamic I would put him in for Fred at 6 and give him a run to the end of the season. I don't think he does enough at 10.
 
Very underwhelming, am starting to feel it might be best for the club and him in the long term if he moved on in the summer.
 
snk123 said:
What ability have you seen ? I’m honestly interested to know - maybe i’ve missed it. He moves around well but apart from that where and what is the ability?
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I honestly do not think I have seen a convincing explanation, at least relative to this league. Usually vague notions surrounding his suitability to possession football, or that he needs players on his wavelength to feed off. Interestingly, similar explanations were offered for Kagawa and we never really got to the bottom of why he didn't perform, especially where the simplest explanation that he simply wasn't good enough were ignored.

However, when these ideas are ventured I have to rack my brain for times when he has shown technical ability that would actually support it. If anything, the primary justification for him ought to be that he was a very productive player in Holland which we have yet to see because beyond that there has barely been a hint as to what our scouts were seeing.

However I think we pretty much have to give the guy another season and hope for the best because I'm not sure he can lose much more value.
 
£20m to Ajax? Must have some suitors at that price. I think that's his fair value, in no world is he a £40m player. The scout got this one wrong.
 
snk123 said:
What ability have you seen ? I’m honestly interested to know - maybe i’ve missed it. He moves around well but apart from that where and what is the ability?
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Exactly. Can’t finish, can’t create, can’t pick the runs our strikers are making and is always trying to pass it to a player and run into space.

He will be good but in a very specific system where players interchange positions and play narrow. We are often playing wide to stretch dogged defences so he is really ineffective.

I hope he develops a new dimension to his game and tries to break into one of the 3 positions behind the striker.
 
Abraxas said:
I honestly do not think I have seen a convincing explanation, at least relative to this league. Usually vague notions surrounding his suitability to possession football, or that he needs players on his wavelength to feed off. Interestingly, similar explanations were offered for Kagawa and we never really got to the bottom of why he didn't perform, especially where the simplest explanation that he simply wasn't good enough were ignored.

However, when these ideas are ventured I have to rack my brain for times when he has shown technical ability that would actually support it. If anything, the primary justification for him ought to be that he was a very productive player in Holland which we have yet to see because beyond that there has barely been a hint as to what our scouts were seeing.

However I think we pretty much have to give the guy another season and hope for the best because I'm not sure he can lose much more value.
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He played many games before United.

Like kagawa, he was very effective before United.

There are two sides to this, one side he is almost too good to play for ole and that he should be guaranteed starts, the other side he isn't good enough. Don't understand why there isn't a relaxed middle ground, that he might come good in time, like Fred as a recent example.
 
marktan said:
£20m to Ajax? Must have some suitors at that price. I think that's his fair value, in no world is he a £40m player. The scout got this one wrong.
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Think we paid about 35 which is just nothing. Tubes did an interview when he signed just laughing his head off at the fee
 
Crashoutcassius said:
He played many games before United.

Like kagawa, he was very effective before United.

There are two sides to this, one side he is almost too good to play for ole and that he should be guaranteed starts, the other side he isn't good enough. Don't understand why there isn't a relaxed middle ground, that he might come good in time, like Fred as a recent example.
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I remember when it was just accepted that new players would be better in their second season.
 
snk123 said:
Its amazing how we sold a terrific mentality player like Herrera and got Donny for 40m.
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Very strange comment. We offered Herrera a contract and he turned it down. He was also sold a full year before we even signed VDB.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
He played many games before United.

Like kagawa, he was very effective before United.

There are two sides to this, one side he is almost too good to play for ole and that he should be guaranteed starts, the other side he isn't good enough. Don't understand why there isn't a relaxed middle ground, that he might come good in time, like Fred as a recent example.
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Like Kagawa in that he was successful at a certain kind of club, but different in that he was part of a team in which the quality differential between his teammates and the opposition was quite drastic. This is probably a factor that contributes to some of the difficult transitions from the Dutch league.

I don't know what "too good for Ole" means. It is fair to say in terms of relative performance within their roles only one of them is coming out of that comparison with any credit, although I fail to see what the purpose of that analysis is.
 
Abraxas said:
Like Kagawa in that he was successful at a certain kind of club, but different in that he was part of a team in which the quality differential between his teammates and the opposition was quite drastic. This is probably a factor that contributes to some of the difficult transitions from the Dutch league.

I don't know what "too good for Ole" means. It is fair to say in terms of relative performance within their roles only one of them is coming out of that comparison with any credit, although I fail to see what the purpose of that analysis is.
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If you look through the various threads you will see people saying ole can't coach the patterns of play to get the best out of beek. It has become a joke over the months but that was a very serious narrative a while back
 
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