Donny van de Beek | van de Beek's father: "[Moving to United] a dream come true."

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Gandalf Greyhame said:
Very pleased with the quality depth addition. Can rotate in for Bruno/Pogba and is better than Pereira/Lingard in midfield. 40m seems cheap for his age as well.

If we had such a great relation with Ajax/VDS, we should have been in Ziyech earlier for the RW. It won't matter if we get Sancho, but if we don't then not being proactive for him might be an expensive mistake.
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Ziyech was signed in January by Chelsea. No one would have predict the pandemic will happen and at that time we are making Sancho as the no 1 target of our winger option.

Nothing the club can do with the Ziyech situation, we needed to do it in January if we are going to sign him and if we do, people might call it mistake since right now no one else is in to sign Sancho which people would have debate it that this year is the best chance to get Sancho.
 
Chief123 said:
Absolutely. Traditional Roy Keane types are not as important.

Look at Barca in their prime....they used to press with high intensity with Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta in midfield. Busquets is never a hard tackling midfielder. But he was technically brilliant and part of a cohesive pressing system.
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A- tika taka is dead. Even Marca admit that. The idea is great and all but you need a squad of players whose got superb passing skills and are in their prime to play such highly intense and passing obsessive football. No one can afford that.

B- Keane was never the oaf type of DM whose only good in defending and offered nothing going forward. He spent his early career as an AM (Forest and with us up until Scholes started playing in CM). In fact Sir Alex's spat with Incey was precisely on that matter. Ince wanted Keane to play DM instead of him and Sir Alex refused which lead to Ince ignoring Sir Alex tactical instructions during that infamous FA final against Everton which we lost. Once Scholes was introduced in CM, Keane spent did the lionshare in terms of defensive duties. However we needed that as he was the defensive focal point of a team who played 5 attacking minded players in it. Having said that Keane was still a great player going forward. He dominated Juventus in that famous semi final.

Defensive wise we're currently playing an older type of football then the one Keane played in. We've got a dedicated DM and two fullbacks who offers next to nothing going forward. That reminds me of the good old catenaccio system. Keane, Gaz and Irwin are far more modern style of players then AWB, Shaw and Matic.

My only concern with Keano is his attitude. He's got this old fashioned aggressive way of percieving football which was already a problem during Queroz time. Modern players have agents protecting them these days. They won't allow nutters who commit career threatening tackles on their clients during training just to point out whose the alpha male in that group
 
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Chief123 said:
I watched virtually every game Keane played for us. I know exactly what kind of midfielder he was. Your response is totally irrelevant to the point I made.

One of Keane’s best attributes was a hard tackling ball winner. The game has changed in that defensive minded ball winning midfielders are not as significant anymore. Of course Keane offered a lot more than that, but my point was that having a defensive midfielder in the traditional sense of shielding the back four and winning the ball back is not as essential as having midfielders with high intensity, stamina and the ability to press high.
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The high press wasn't a thing in Keane's time but he would excell at it if he was around today IMO. He also was a midfielder who played a highly intensive game which helped us maintain a high tempo. His stamina levels were also superb IMO.
 
Chief123 said:
I watched virtually every game Keane played for us. I know exactly what kind of midfielder he was. Your response is totally irrelevant to the point I made.

One of Keane’s best attributes was a hard tackling ball winner. The game has changed in that defensive minded ball winning midfielders are not as significant anymore. Of course Keane offered a lot more than that, but my point was that having a defensive midfielder in the traditional sense of shielding the back four and winning the ball back is not as essential as having midfielders with high intensity, stamina and the ability to press high.
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Roy Keane wasn’t a defensive midfielder for most of his career. This not Makelele we are talking about here.

Have you ever seen a defensive midfielder put in the kind of performance he did in Turin?

Keane in his 30s was a different player because he no longer had the mobility he had previously, and was therefore much more defensively minded.

Him and Viera in their pomp would dominate in today’s game.
 
SteveW said:
You've just made me imagine a midfield of Keane, Pogba and Bruno. It would be about as close to perfect as you could get.
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People would still complain that there isn't a proper DM in that midfield..
 
Amadaeus said:
Van de Beek will give us incredible depth in the midfield. Maybe he is a cheaper alternative to Grelish? I feel like our board are tired of getting fleeced. Honestly, I rather have Grelish, but I guess he is too pricey.
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This! If there is an option - vd Beek at £40 million or Grealish at £70-80 million - the choice is really easy. I can defend spending £100 million on Sancho because he is really, really special and 5 years younger than Grealish - and because realistically there are no better options out there then Sancho. But Grealish (as much as I would love him here) - isn't special enough to warrant spending £70 million on him.
 
Carl said:
People would still complain that there isn't a proper DM in that midfield..
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Imo that complain/worry is quite legit. All of them are not very defensively minded and could 100℅ guarantee the necessary balance. And a good midfield is all about balance imo.

I'd stay skeptical on VDB until he's played a few games for us. Blind was POTY in the Eredivisie the season before he signed for us. Same was Depay I think.

This is definitely a promising signing but imo we should leave it exactly where it is.
 
devilish said:
A- tika taka is dead. Even Marca admit that. The idea is great and all but you need a squad of players whose got superb passing skills and are in their prime to play such highly intense and passing obsessive football. No one can afford that.

B- Keane was never the oaf type of DM whose only good in defending and offered nothing going forward. He spent his early career as an AM (Forest and with us up until Scholes started playing in CM). In fact Sir Alex's spat with Incey was precisely on that matter. Ince wanted Keane to play DM instead of him and Sir Alex refused which lead to Ince ignoring Sir Alex tactical instructions during that infamous FA final against Everton which we lost. Once Scholes was introduced in CM, Keane spent did the lionshare in terms of defensive duties. However we needed that as he was the defensive focal point of a team who played 5 attacking minded players in it. Having said that Keane was still a great player going forward. He dominated Juventus in that famous semi final.

Defensive wise we're currently playing an older type of football then the one Keane played in. We've got a dedicated DM and two fullbacks who offers next to nothing going forward. That reminds me of the good old catenaccio system. Keane, Gaz and Irwin are far more modern style of players then AWB, Shaw and Matic.

My only concern with Keano is his attitude. He's got this old fashioned aggressive way of percieving football which was already a problem during Queroz time. Modern players have agents protecting them these days. They won't allow nutters who commit career threatening tackles on their clients during training just to point out whose the alpha male in that group
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Good post. But just on the last part, when you're part of a generation, you are moulded by it. Keane would be a feisty character but he would naturally be tempered version as it would be ingrained in him throughout his youth/growing phase.
 
lysglimt said:
This! If there is an option - vd Beek at £40 million or Grealish at £70-80 million - the choice is really easy. I can defend spending £100 million on Sancho because he is really, really special and 5 years younger than Grealish - and because realistically there are no better options out there then Sancho. But Grealish (as much as I would love him here) - isn't special enough to warrant spending £70 million on him.
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Also we have to factor in the potential emergence of Hannibal Mejbri, so this potential deal makes alot of sense over Grealish. In a years time it could well look a great decision IMO.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Very pleased with the quality depth addition. Can rotate in for Bruno/Pogba and is better than Pereira/Lingard in midfield. 40m seems cheap for his age as well.

If we had such a great relation with Ajax/VDS, we should have been in Ziyech earlier for the RW. It won't matter if we get Sancho, but if we don't then not being proactive for him might be an expensive mistake.
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Ziyech is far from a guaranteed success. Plenty of Ajax fans were frustrated with his inconsistency. It could go the same way as Depay, or he might find that next level from playing in the Eredivisie. I’d trust that we looked at him, seen as we want to fill that position, and decided against it. It was well known he was available for that price for a while.
 
Chief123 said:
The same club can be used to prove my point if you look at how successful Madrid were with Modric and Kroos as their holding midfielders with the likes of Ozil or Isco in front of them in attacking mid. Neither of which were defensive minded but they still won European cups with that setup.
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Aside from having a mare with the whole holding midfielders thing and Keane opinion who is the epitome of a complete midfielder, Modric and later Kroos always had a holder behind them (Xabi, Khedira, Casemiro) while Ozil never won a European Cup.
 
From what I've seen he is like an improved version of Ander Herrera in the sense of being box to box but offers more of an attacking threat and has a trick or two up his sleeve.

Great signing.
 
Looked decent against Spurs in the CL a couple of seasons ago so hopefully the Prem wont be a massive shock to him and has CL experience as well, decent package hopefully.
 
Cheimoon said:
I think it's good news for United that someone like him (and earlier Bruno) chooses United. Not because he's the Next Big Thing, but because he apparently had a lot of choice and then went for United. To me, that signifies a belief in the current direction of the club.


I thought at the end of last season everyone was saying that United have a great first team but horrendous squad. Now they buy a player that might make the first team but certainly really strengthens the squad, and that's unnecessary...?

He'll have to get used to playing with smaller footballs in the EPL.
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You had me there for a moment. For a second I was thinking why is the ball bigger in the Dutch league and how have i not known about this :lol: :lol:
 
People need to not get carried away with the need for a DM. In truth we havn't even played a DM in yonks. Name the last DM we have had.
This is not some Fifa Ultimate team chemistry formula. If the attributes are there, the game plan and the balance you can be defensively sound with 3 Paul Scholes in midfield.
Some games you want to nullify a certain danger and you play a more defensive minded player to counter that. But a true DM in a squad is not a must have unless you actually play that style.
If you have physicality in midfield and the right attitude along with a little tenacity, discipline and an interception/tackle to boot then your sorted.
 
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DeeDee7 said:
People need to not get carried away with the need for a DM. In truth we havn't even played a DM in yonks. Name the last DM we have had.
This is not some Fifa Ultimate team chemistry formula. If the attributes are there, the game plan and the balance you can be defensively sound with 3 Paul Scholes in midfield.
Some games you want to nullify a certain danger and you play a more defensive minded player to counter that. But a true DM in a squad is not a must have unless you actually play that style.
If you have physicality in midfield and the right attitude along with a little tenacity, discipline and an interception/tackle to boot then your sorted.
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Matic
 
DeeDee7 said:
People need to not get carried away with the need for a DM. In truth we havn't even played a DM in yonks. Name the last DM we have had.
This is not some Fifa Ultimate team chemistry formula. If the attributes are there, the game plan and the balance you can be defensively sound with 3 Paul Scholes in midfield.
Some games you want to nullify a certain danger and you play a more defensive minded player to counter that. But a true DM in a squad is not a must have unless you actually play that style.
If you have physicality in midfield and the right attitude along with a little tenacity, discipline and an interception/tackle to boot then your sorted.
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Yup. Closest thing we've had to a true DM is Carrick. We've never really played with a DM in the style of Makelele, Senna etc. However, I thought that's what we'd go for this summer purely so we could push Pogba further up the pitch, rather than having him as deep as he has been.
 
meamth said:
In conclusion, traditional CDM has no more time to dwell on the ball like they used to.

This is the way to go. I hope.
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I tend to agree. How many times are people screaming when Matic gets caught on the ball, as you say you don't get time on the ball now. I think in the modern game he can work in a midfield three with Pogba and Bruno.
 
Quality player that will be important to keeping Bruno and Pogba fresh. Good signing and for once it seems we didn't pay United tax on it.
 
Happy with this signing.

Young
Ajax academy graduate
Plays a much needed role for us

I've seen him play a couple of times, so far from an expert on him, but he looked good. He ticks a lot of boxes for us.
 
My expectation is that he comes as a starter.

Pogba's role has changed to be a deep lying player to get him on the ball more, while Fernandes plays the 10 and the other midfielder does the pressing and is the spare user of the ball when the opposition presses Pogba in possession.

Its the role Fred played in the last couple of games and I think VDB is an upgrade for that job.
 
This is a wonderful signing. VdB does more things than catches the eye. His off the ball play is fantastic. He is basically a back-up for both Pogba and Bruno, as well as having the ability to play with those 2. We lost Sevilla mainly because the players had no gas in the tank and having a versitale player such as VdB could be the difference in those games.

40 Mil is an absolute bargain. In that aspect, he might be the biggest bargain since... I don't know van der sar maybe?
 
Hang out the bunting, warm up the band... we might actually have signed someone...
 
NotQuiteManc said:


Based on the video, one of traits that interests me is that he is pretty similar to Muller, whereby he would look for others first, almost always even though he had the chance to score himself. Plus, his lack of style or flair, is similar to Muller as well. Could be a good match for the team now.
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I like his decision making & he always seems to look for a pass first. The Muller comparison is pretty spot on, not a flair player but occupies the right spaces, finds the right pass & has a good amount of energy.

I would love to see more clips of him as a CM.
Considering our lack of width & wing play, I wonder if he could play where Greenwood or Rashford play too.

I don’t understand anyone who wouldn’t want him at that price, our squad is laughably thin.
 
Squeaky Bumtime said:
He's not a pure DM so the guy you quoted is kind of right.
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Matic isn’t a DM? What would you class him as if not?

I would say he’s the very definition of a DM personally but do agree with the point that the DM role is different now and the typical Makelele role isn’t used anymore.
 
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