I wasnt upset about it, I just argued against it because playing 2 central midfield roles only isnt very flexible. Disagreeing and arguing different points is the reason for a forum in the first place. Matic would be our only midfielder who wouldnt be "flexible" if that was the criteria. McTominay, Fred, Pogba and Bruno can all play a defensive role or get forward. Bruno possibly on the right as well.
Donny van de Beek | van de Beek's father: "[Moving to United] a dream come true."
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I wasnt upset about it, I just argued against it because playing 2 central midfield roles only isnt very flexible. Disagreeing and arguing different points is the reason for a forum in the first place. Matic would be our only midfielder who wouldnt be "flexible" if that was the criteria. McTominay, Fred, Pogba and Bruno can all play a defensive role or get forward. Bruno possibly on the right as well.
Seriously? You don’t think the player deployed at no.10 for United has more freedom of movement than the two lining up behind him?
Were he to sign, I would find the notion of him and Fernandes working in tandem ahead of a designated holding player appealing, but the idea of him in the deeper pair in our current shape underwhelming.
This isn't one of those "dream, believe, achieve" scenarios, hun x
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So Ligue one have ruled an end to the season and Lyon’s appeal is finished.
Houssem Aouar would be an amazing signing and looks almost certain to leave Lyon now.
So question for you DVB or Aouar?
Houssem Aouar would be an amazing signing and looks almost certain to leave Lyon now.
So question for you DVB or Aouar?
Where did I say that? Nowhere.
You can find notions and ideas all you want, doesn’t make them true. van de Beek has played the majority of his career in a deeper pair and his highest scoring season was in a deeper position. Those are facts. He doesn’t need a free role to pick up good positions in attack. That is also a fact. You’ve claimed he can’t find the space and movement from a deeper position with no basis at all and completely contrary to the actual facts and evidence of his countless performances as an 8.
He’s largely played as an 8 and been fantastic at it and will continue to be. Players are capable of providing attacking output without having a free role.
You're telling me he can do all this from deep?? I don't see that happening if his other midfield members are Bruno and Fred
My suspicion is that Ole prefers all rounders in midfield. That isn’t to say he hasn’t looked to Matic to fill gaps, or doesn’t care for defensive midfielders full stop. But I think he wants his central midfielders to be able wear many hats. Which would make sense when you consider the kind of midfielders he was accustomed to playing with. I don’t think we’re buying destroyer types going forward.
It’s interesting that you use this video to support your argument. You see, I watched that video earlier (how sad) and see a proper central midfielder there. Granted, he’s playing higher up the field in many of those clips; however, he’s clearly very rounded. I actually think he’s quite languid, arguably erring on the side of cumbersome, for what the groupthink usually consider a #10 to be.
I was then sad enough to watch another video, but from a year or so ago. His position was markedly deeper and he looks like a proper central midfielder: solid passer, committed in the challenge, quick thinker and clearly a goal threat. I see shades of Herrera at his best. Herrera, too, was an all rounder - albeit nowhere near as efficient in front of goal.
I would have absolutely no issue with this lad playing in central midfield. He looks every bit an old school, ‘I’ll do a bit of everything’ central midfielder, as unfashionable as they are these days.
Sad enough
. Link the video?I've seen alot of people including Ajax fans saying that though he's versatile his best position is higher up the pitch. With the argument that he is only being bought because Pogba is leaving or will leave in the future I don't see why we should go for a player whose best position is AM and not in a pivot that Pogba plays in. I just want to be certain we would not be underutilising him playing him in a pivot behind the AM
Sad enough
I've seen alot of people including Ajax fans saying that though he's versatile his best position is higher up the pitch. With the argument that he is only being bought because Pogba is leaving or will leave in the future I don't see why we should go for a player whose best position is AM and not in a pivot that Pogba plays in. I just want to be certain we would not be underutilising him playing him in a pivot behind the AM
I watched that. Feel free to disagree, but based on the (incredibly) small amount of footage I’m watching, I see a central midfielder there. I’m not watching a second striker like Rooney, or a #10 like Mata, or a Coutinho. I wouldn’t really compare him to our own Bruno either, to be honest. To me, that’s a central midfielder who happens to be pretty nifty in and around the box. If that’s where Ajax prioritise him then they will have good reason for it. But that doesn’t mean to say that’s all he is.
You talk about a ‘pivot’ but, really, that’s just the team sheet on the tele before kick off. As I said earlier, Ole seems to like all rounders and I don’t expect our midfield positions to be too regimented. This is certainly the case now that Pogba returns.
That is a good observation. Almost all of Redcafe are in unison that we need someone to replace Matic soon, but yeah, doesnt look like Ole thinks that way.
Find it abit strange if we are going to play both Pogba and Bruno together, but I guess he has faith in McT and Fred in the long run, and that he switches to 3-5-2 against good opponents.
It can also explain why he wants hardworking players (like Bruno and DvB) that dont shy tracking back.
It’s peculiar though, since almost all of the other top PL sides operate with a pure DMif Im not mistaken.
Good video where he actually played deeper but he looked more alive further up the pitch to be honest. If he plays deeper what exactly would be his stand out quality? With Mctominay and Fred playing deep I know they are energetic ball winners. With Pogba playing deep I know he's a deep lying playmaker. Matic I know he's shielding the back line. With Van den Beek it just looks like someone that can do a job there sort of like a jack of all trades. He looks more useful higher up the pitch
I fear he may end up being a player like Davy Klaassen, they were really similar players in their time with Ajax, and we all saw how Klaassen didnt made it here with everton.
Who made this shite up?
I haven’t watched enough of him to make an educated assessment, but from what I’ve seen and read is that he’s good at passing through the lines, very intelligent with his movement and very good at retaining possession on the ball. From what I’ve read he averages 1 interception per game, BUT Ajax are so dominant in the Dutch league that he doesn’t have as much opportunity to do so.
Perhaps he could be moulded into more of a Carrick type player under the tutelage of none other than the man, the myth, the legend Michael Carrick. If not then we have strength in depth further up the field.
Carrick is probably a good model of how VdB would go as a player. IIRC Carrick was also played in attacking position and wasn't even playing that deep lying playmaker role before he came to United.
And I don't think Ole is looking at a specialist destroyer in midfield. He never played with one in his playing career, and he never employed such player in his managerial career. I don't see how he would looking for one. Anyone who say Matic, Matic's game is alot more than a mere defensive midfielder. He got a good passing range as well
Frank de Boer said that he the qualities to play as a number 6 but needs to work on the defensive side of his game. He’s not long turned 23 which is very young for a central midfielder and it wouldn’t be a surprise if his role developed in that way.
It's also due to way our fullbacks often play - one of them tends to tuck in when we are in possession, forming something like a back 3 with the 2 centrebacks and allowing our 2 midfield pivots to push further forward
So this guy was nailed on to join Madrid but with the panademic they really do not want to make any major transfers so now we are serious contenders to bring him in.
If Pogba was leaving in the summer I could think the story has substance but if Real are reluctant to make any major signings then Pogba is going nowhere and Juve will not pay the money and I really think going back to a club he played with for four seasons before and won all domestically hardly represents a new challenge.
We are not going to pay over 30mil for another midfielder while we have our existing roster.
If Pogba was leaving in the summer I could think the story has substance but if Real are reluctant to make any major signings then Pogba is going nowhere and Juve will not pay the money and I really think going back to a club he played with for four seasons before and won all domestically hardly represents a new challenge.
We are not going to pay over 30mil for another midfielder while we have our existing roster.
I claimed he wouldn’t have the same freedom to create or utilise space as he does in the no.10 role deeper in midfield. You can claim that’s baseless all you want, it doesn’t make it so. It’s impossible for that not to be the case - were he to apply the same liberal approach to his positioning, movement and runs he would no longer be operating deeper. The obligation of operating deeper dictates that the freedom and license to roam and vacate his position, working off of the other attacking players and where or how they move and how the opposition defenders react, would be restricted.
Perhaps his awareness and speed of thought translates well to a deeper role and in his positioning and decision-making in aiding ball progression. You say he is fantastic as a no.8 - great. There’s no way he can provide what he does in a more advanced position though.
I would like to see VDB at the club. I feel that Lingard, Andreas, Mata and Matic are soon on the way out. Bringing in VDB and then slowly giving more games time to Gomes and Garner would give us good depth in the midfield.
Having said that, I try not to get too excited about these rumours because us fans never know what's going on behind closed doors.
Having said that, I try not to get too excited about these rumours because us fans never know what's going on behind closed doors.
Yeah, the thing is even Fergie realized the game had movedYeah even Fergie who had some staunch football beliefs realized that the game had moved on from using two all rounders when he went for Carrick.
Ole's idea to have two all rounders with a #10 might work, but not with Pogba in the team IMO, if Pogba is in the double pivot he needs a DM with him.
VDB 2018/19 heat map. Found on totalfootballanalysis.com.
Get this guy! I have feeling if we sign him, Fernandes and VdB will be our own Silva and KdB or Modric and Kroos.
Don't think we need him in all honesty, especially, for that price. He's AM and 40M EUR for rotation option is too much even for us.
This is the world we live in now where even a rotation is going to cost. Look at the depth of City and Liverpool. If we adoptEd your viewpoint they would still have Delph, Rodwel and Sinclair on the books.
VDB 2018/19 heat map. Found on totalfootballanalysis.com.
Interesting. Where's the attacking direction, mate?
I think you need to think again about your KDB comparison and the Kroos one too for that matter.
Carrick was an all rounder when we bought him. He was no destroyer, or exclusively an attacking midfielder void of defensive input. Over time, he was encouraged to support our build up from a deeper position but he wasn’t a De Jong-type bruiser who was in there to do one job and one job only. After Milan, we were probably the second best team in Europe in 2007 and Scholes and Carrick contributed to that; both of whom were very rounded in their skill sets.
I agree with the view that Pogba will need midfield partners who are good defensively. But that doesn’t dictate we buy players who are one-dimensional to complement. I think we’ll be buying midfielders who bring more to table, and rightly so.
This is the season someone here said he played as an 8. Yet he looks to be the most advanced midfielder with a free roleVDB 2018/19 heat map. Found on totalfootballanalysis.com.
Left to right, surely? Unless he’s a goalkeeper.
Unless he was a DM. Gk should have all yellow on the box though, with other shades a bit further.
But most likely you're right.
What if Paul Pogba or Bruno gets injured. Then its Lingard or Perierra. Buying another midfielder like Van De Beek. I mean Pogba was injured for most of the season. Wouldn't suprise me if the same happened next season
That looks quite deep if you take into consideration that Ajax more than likely dominate possession in the majority of their games. Seems he prefers the left ever so slightly.VDB 2018/19 heat map. Found on totalfootballanalysis.com.
sounds like there is a list, and Woody is negotiating with all, to put pressure on no 1 target to sign.
I wonder if this Van Der Beek & Grealish situation is similar to Lukaku & Morata in 2017. So maybe the plan was to sign Jack until they got wind that Real were hesitating on Donny.
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Left to right. This is the season I believe he played 80% of the matches as AM, rest as CM.
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The only list is the one the media has and that one is all the players we can feasibly link to Manchester United
No thank you, would not work for us.
18/19 was just last season, with their run to the Champions League semi-finals. Van de Beek played as a no.10, ahead of Frenkie de Jong (no.6) and Lasse Schone (no.8).
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