Donny Van De Beek / LOAN to Everton

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When two managers don't play the same player then its has to be the player isn't up to it, you can see how Dalot has benefitted from Rangnicks arrival and even Telles has gotten more game time
 
NoPace said:
He might even fancy it with a World Cup spot there to take with Winaldjum struggling, Gravenberch not having fully emerged and Klassen doing a job sure but it's gotta be killing him not to start over him.
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No offence to our Donny, but let's put "Wijnaldum struggling" into context here. He's 5 times the player VDB is and has been Holland's best performer for years now. VDB could start alongside him instead of Klaassen if LVG sticks to 2 CAMs. If it's the one no 10 he would always be a bench player.

Gravenberch is nowhere near the standard.
 
Trex said:
When two managers don't play the same player then its has to be the player isn't up to it, you can see how Dalot has benefitted from Rangnicks arrival and even Telles has gotten more game time
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Two managers wanted to play Fellaini instead of Ander in CM

Fellaini we finally got rid of and he went to play in China

Ander went to the most star studded team in the world and became a starter

When DVB has actually got a start in DM at least half the time he's put in a good performance and progressed the ball better than McTominay and Fred tend to do. So theres good reason to want to see him given a run or more chances instead of coming in, playing well, then not playing again
 
Ekeke said:
Two managers wanted to play Fellaini instead of Ander in CM

Fellaini we finally got rid of and he went to play in China

Ander went to the most star studded team in the world and became a starter

When DVB has actually got a start in DM at least half the time he's put in a good performance and progressed the ball better than McTominay and Fred tend to do. So theres good reason to want to see him given a run or more chances instead of coming in, playing well, then not playing again
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Maybe fact check before posting comparisons.. he's only been regularly starting this season, his 3rd season at PSG.
 
Ekeke said:
Two managers wanted to play Fellaini instead of Ander in CM

Fellaini we finally got rid of and he went to play in China

Ander went to the most star studded team in the world and became a starter

When DVB has actually got a start in DM at least half the time he's put in a good performance and progressed the ball better than McTominay and Fred tend to do. So theres good reason to want to see him given a run or more chances instead of coming in, playing well, then not playing again
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Beg to differ that his performances as a DM have been good half the time, mostly they have been poor and he has looked lost on the pitch. Scott and Fred are barely squad level for us but they are significantly better at the DM role than Donny. I do believe he would be effective played further forward but not as an out and out CAM. The Diamond would suit him probably and a few other tactical adjustments but I don't know that we are likely to be doing that.
 
Ekeke said:
Two managers wanted to play Fellaini instead of Ander in CM

Fellaini we finally got rid of and he went to play in China

Ander went to the most star studded team in the world and became a starter

When DVB has actually got a start in DM at least half the time he's put in a good performance and progressed the ball better than McTominay and Fred tend to do. So theres good reason to want to see him given a run or more chances instead of coming in, playing well, then not playing again
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You're aware Fellaini isn't the flashiest footballer, but he had more of an impact than Herrera right, the truth is Donny hasn't been great when he plays, agreed Fred and Mctominay are average but at least they got legs, we'll have to make do with them till we can reenforce
 
Trex said:
You're aware Fellaini isn't the flashiest footballer, but he had more of an impact than Herrera right, the truth is Donny hasn't been great when he plays, agreed Fred and Mctominay are average but at least they got legs, we'll have to make do with them till we can reenforce
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Oh dear
 
Gandalf said:
Beg to differ that his performances as a DM have been good half the time, mostly they have been poor and he has looked lost on the pitch. Scott and Fred are barely squad level for us but they are significantly better at the DM role than Donny. I do believe he would be effective played further forward but not as an out and out CAM. The Diamond would suit him probably and a few other tactical adjustments but I don't know that we are likely to be doing that.
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He's been miles better playing the ball than they have been in the majority of their united games.
 
Surely has to start seeing mctom is suspended and matic is as old as sin. Which will make it all the more amusing when he starts the game on bench.
 
VanDeBank said:
No offence to our Donny, but let's put "Wijnaldum struggling" into context here. He's 5 times the player VDB is and has been Holland's best performer for years now. VDB could start alongside him instead of Klaassen if LVG sticks to 2 CAMs. If it's the one no 10 he would always be a bench player.

Gravenberch is nowhere near the standard.
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Sure, but Wijnaldum is 31 and might get loaned out as he's playing so poorly for Paris. He'll be 32 come the tournament and even if he keeps his place it might be a shorter leash. He's a player who relies heavily on his physical qualities (and ability to keep the ball to be fair) as a midfielder. Was also terrible in the loss against the Czechs at the Euros.
 
Red the Bear said:
Surely has to start seeing mctom is suspended and matic is as old as sin. Which will make it all the more amusing when he starts the game on bench.
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You do realise this is a premier league game and not the league cup right? Why would VDB suddenly start out of nowhere when he has barely featured?
 
If we sell McTominay, none of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would ever want him.

If we sell vdb, at least half of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would want him

Let's make it simple, both RR and Ole are biased and are making wrong footballing decisions. Like how our "worldclass" managers overrated players like Felliani back in the days
 
Trex said:
You're aware Fellaini isn't the flashiest footballer, but he had more of an impact than Herrera right, the truth is Donny hasn't been great when he plays, agreed Fred and Mctominay are average but at least they got legs, we'll have to make do with them till we can reenforce
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Fellaini's "impact" is just scoring those odd heading goals like once every 8 games and a few good chest control per game, at the expense of sacrificing our midfield tempo and fluidity.
 
JeffFromHK said:
Fellaini's "impact" is just scoring those odd heading goals like once every 8 games and a few good chest control per game, at the expense of sacrificing our midfield tempo and fluidity.
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Fellaini would dominate games when you play to his strength in the manner Herrera wouldn't in any system of football, just see Fellaini level at Everton and at times at utd compared to any version of Herrera.
 
I always thought VDB wowed me more if he played as a CAM player that worked in to CF positions behind the opposition back.

The CM areas didn't seem like what I was watching him for.
 
I have a theory with VDB… I find it really strange that two managers haven’t really utilised him but are still very reluctant to sell him on or loan him out, doesn’t make sense to me, therefore, I’ve started to believe (and I could be miles off with this), that ETH has said that part of his deal to take over next season is if VDB is kept as he knows how to get the best out of him. Wild theory and probably just wishful thinking but it’s the only thing I feel can make sense
 
Bebestation said:
I always thought VDB wowed me more if he played as a CAM player that worked in to CF positions behind the opposition back.

The CM areas didn't seem like what I was watching him for.
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For Ajax yes, but anytime he's played in Bruno's position for us he's been poor. I would say thats mostly due to our over reliance on Bruno to make something happen in attack for us to get a chance, while DVB is more like the goalscoring side of Bruno where he joins the striker in the box and finishes. So unlike Bruno, he needs someone else to be making the killer passes. He doesn't do both the creating and the scoring.

Moved back to our DM role though and DVB's passing, though not likely to rip teams to shreds is still better at progressing the ball than McTominay and Fred, which is the area that those 2 leave plenty to be desired most of the time. Now obviously Fred had that one great game doing that and McTominay adds to the attack in a different way, with long shooting.
 
JeffFromHK said:
Let's make it simple, both RR and Ole are biased and are making wrong footballing decisions. Like how our "worldclass" managers overrated players like Felliani back in the days
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So keeping it simple, JeffFromHK knows better than Ole and Rangnick?
 
Trex said:
Fellaini would dominate games when you play to his strength in the manner Herrera wouldn't in any system of football, just see Fellaini level at Everton and at times at utd compared to any version of Herrera.
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Herrera was always a much better central midfielder than Fellaini was. However what Fellaini was good for was being given a very specific role to focus on (and it could be either an offensive or defensive role), where he would normally do well and cause the opposition all kinds of problems. If we'd limited him to only being used in the latter role I expect he would have been very good for us and be considered a bit of a cult hero. The fact we spent most of his time here trying to play him as a normal central midfielder was a huge problem for both us and him.

In saying that, I don't really remember many extended runs where Fellaini was chosen ahead of Herrera in midfield. They tended to play together quite a lot, or Fellaini would play while Herrera was injured or just coming back from injury (which did happen quite a lot).
 
JeffFromHK said:
If we sell McTominay, none of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would ever want him.

If we sell vdb, at least half of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would want him

Let's make it simple, both RR and Ole are biased and are making wrong footballing decisions. Like how our "worldclass" managers overrated players like Felliani back in the days
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Where on earth are you getting this from?
 
JeffFromHK said:
If we sell McTominay, none of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would ever want him.

If we sell vdb, at least half of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would want him

Let's make it simple, both RR and Ole are biased and are making wrong footballing decisions. Like how our "worldclass" managers overrated players like Felliani back in the days
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Is that why he's being reportedly offered to the likes of Dortmund and fighting for survival Newcastle? Who you know, still have seemingly not wet themselves with excitement to sign him.
 
I can picture Donny on the coach into Villa park, hoody up, headphones on, Eminem “Lose Yourself” on repeat, lyrics ringing in his ears....and as he finally steps out on to the turf for the first time...to collect the water bottle McTominay fuked on the sidelines in the 90th minute...he realises he is living in the twilight zone and fuks off to Dortmund.
 
Trex said:
Fellaini would dominate games when you play to his strength in the manner Herrera wouldn't in any system of football, just see Fellaini level at Everton and at times at utd compared to any version of Herrera.
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Yep. Fellaini could dominate some games. Especially now in China. At the same time Herrera has started on CL final and has featured regularly in PSG. I can't believe that people still defend Fellaini. He was so great that at 29 nobody in Europe wanted him.
 
led_scholes said:
Yep. Fellaini could dominate some games. Especially now in China. At the same time Herrera has started on CL final and has featured regularly in PSG. I can't believe that people still defend Fellaini. He was so great that at 29 nobody in Europe wanted him.
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Fellani never dominated a single game in his life ...what is this bullshit? He dominated centre halves because he is fuking huge and aggressive. He scored goals, set up others but that was usually in games where the ball was pinged into him in the box.

dominate games...Jesus Mary and Joseph.
 
led_scholes said:
Yep. Fellaini could dominate some games. Especially now in China. At the same time Herrera has started on CL final and has featured regularly in PSG. I can't believe that people still defend Fellaini. He was so great that at 29 nobody in Europe wanted him.
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Loads of players are finished at 29. Fellini got more hate than was deserved from the fans. I thought he was alright, I think Donny has yet to prove himself to even by alright. 1800+ minutes in all comps should be enough for most players to show a glimmer of what they are about. He is improving but I don't think he will ever make it here. I hope I'm wrong.
 
yipthatman said:
Loads of players are finished at 29. Fellini got more hate than was deserved from the fans. I thought he was alright, I think Donny has yet to prove himself to even by alright. 1800+ minutes in all comps should be enough for most players to show a glimmer of what they are about. He is improving but I don't think he will ever make it here. I hope I'm wrong.
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The way you use his minutes played(1800) is completely disingenuous. It’s not like that equates to 20 games where he was given extended periods of time consecutively and opportunities to gel with a full strength team around him who he was used to playing with. How many games of being played week in week out did it take Fred to show his value? Donny has never had that chance...his minutes are mostly made of of drubs and drabs.

We played about 55 games last season give or take and have played at least another 30 or so this season. Say 85 games since he’s joined- he has never played even two 90 minute games consecutively. Give the guy a break. He ain’t a world beater but you can’t say a car hasn’t worked out if you’ve never really driven it.
 
captaincantona said:
Fellani never dominated a single game in his life ...what is this bullshit? He dominated centre halves because he is fuking huge and aggressive. He scored goals, set up others but that was usually in games where the ball was pinged into him in the box.

dominate games...Jesus Mary and Joseph.
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That's nonsense. He dominated a game against us for Everton for one. We failed to handle him all game.

You can talk about his overall ability of course but the guy could be a genuine menace. There were at least a few games for us where his physicality dominated or opened the game, Spurs under LvG he got a goal, assist, and man of the match for instance.
 
People arguing whether Donny is good or not good enough for United is very strange considering we have no way of knowing. You can't judge a player on how good he is if he only plays 10 mins here and there every month or so. Most of you here would be calling for Vinicius head if you were Madrid fans last season. Zidane didn't give him much and he struggled. But this season Ancelotti came in, entrusted him and he's been tearing it up. There's nothing to indicate Donny won't do the same... or maybe he'll fail. But the problem is we simply don't know because he was never even given a chance. You can't expect a player to perform, especially a midfielder, when he isn't given any starts to showcase his abilities. Even when he performs well, he is swiftly benched rather than being given a chance. Even when there is an injured or a red carded player (Fred or McT) he again doesn't get a sniff, rather the starting position goes to old, decrepit Matic who looks like he is going to pass out any time he is on the field. How do you expect a player to keep his motivation or desire when he sees that?
 
Smores said:
That's nonsense. He dominated a game against us for Everton for one. We failed to handle him all game.

You can talk about his overall ability of course but the guy could be a genuine menace. There were at least a few games for us where his physicality dominated or opened the game, Spurs under LvG he got a goal, assist, and man of the match for instance.
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Dominated a game? When you talk about dominating a game you mean more then just a Duncan Ferguson like performance bullying a back line. Undoubtedly he opened games up as players of his kind generally do...that’s why they are used. But dominating a 90 minute game is something midfielders and number 10s do. They control matches. In the types of games you’re talking about I’d be surprised if he even touched the ball that much. His presence generally disrupted a back line and made them approach the game differently. Hardly dominating a game though.
 
Sviken said:
People arguing whether Donny is good or not good enough for United is very strange considering we have no way of knowing.
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I simple look at it like this:
He honestly can't be worse than Fred and Mctominay on the ball, who have dire technical ability while VDB was raised in the school of technique.
Mctominay scores the odd goal here and there, but whenever he is on the pitch the midfield is so painfully open defensively, and his passing is often a form of torture.

We need a midfielder who can at least pass. To help us control the game better. We have one. At least give him a go for 5 to 10 games, especially since we're handing out first team starts to dire performers.
 
Trex said:
When two managers don't play the same player then its has to be the player isn't up to it, you can see how Dalot has benefitted from Rangnicks arrival and even Telles has gotten more game time
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This could be the case but then both Ole and RR have said Donny is training well.

Also in the super limited time he has played I think he has been good although not spectacular. This has to be expected as there is no way he is match sharp and usually only gets a few minutes as a sub.

I also remember there were reports just before Ole was sacked that a number of senior players couldn't understand why Donny wasn't getting a chance as he was performing to a high level in training.

I don't want to make it sound like Donny is the answer to our problems and if the team was flying high and putting in dominant performances week in week out I could understand why he isn't getting used.

The truth is McTominay, Fred and Bruno play almost every game and have been poor this season. We have barely won a midfield battle, have no creativity, can't keep the ball and opposing teams run through our midfield as if it's non existent and still a 40 million player who was shortlisted for the Balon D'or can't be given a fair chance. It just doesn't sit right with me.
 
JeffFromHK said:
If we sell McTominay, none of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would ever want him.

If we sell vdb, at least half of Chelsea, Liverpool, PSG, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona would want him

Let's make it simple, both RR and Ole are biased and are making wrong footballing decisions. Like how our "worldclass" managers overrated players like Felliani back in the days
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Some of the VDB admirers appear to be living in absolute Dreamland. We had a free run at VDB when he was at the height of his powers. It was only really Madrid that showed much interest and clearly not all that seriously.

Now you think half the world's best teams would want him after the ineptitude we've seen where two managers don't rate him and in his limited game time the best anyone can say is he passes it better than McTominay?

You need to come back down to reality.
 
Abraxas said:
Some of the VDB admirers appear to be living in absolute Dreamland. We had a free run at VDB when he was at the height of his powers. It was only really Madrid that showed much interest and clearly not all that seriously.

Now you think half the world's best teams would want him after the ineptitude we've seen where two managers don't rate him and in his limited game time the best anyone can say is he passes it better than McTominay?

You need to come back down to reality.
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Stop talking sense.

The worst fear of the Donny Club is him actually getting a run of games.
 
Abraxas said:
Some of the VDB admirers appear to be living in absolute Dreamland. We had a free run at VDB when he was at the height of his powers. It was only really Madrid that showed much interest and clearly not all that seriously.
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This post is kinda ironic. Would Madrid ever want McT, even if we offer him for 1 million? Obviously no top club will want Donny now since he's barely played a full game these past 2 seasons, but back then he was one of the most highly rated prospects in football. And this worries me because in the future such players would not agree to come to us after seeing we're a death factory for talent. We already got snubbed by Bellingham and Haaland.
 
Bobski said:
Stop talking sense.

The worst fear of the Donny Club is him actually getting a run of games.
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I want him to get a run of games so that people can actually see how bang average he is and stop with the '1800+ minutes is nothing if they are not back to back games' nonsense. I just fear we will drop more points if this ever happens. I guess the managers see it this way too. People say that he can't be worse than either of McFred but he can, he really can.
 
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