Have to admit I thought ETH would bring the best out of him, but there’s no evidence of an improvement yet. Just reckon he needs to calm down and not panic so much.
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Interesting thread:
Cheers, yes that was a good read. It's still a big stretch to see if DVB will find himself and his place in this team but I trust ETH's approach.
Similar to Sancho, both had a free summer and I had thought they would both come out all guns firing to start the season but they've either been injured or not played well in key moments. Another false dawn perhaps and I know it's the hope that gets you but this world cup break may be another chance for them to show their worth.
Faint praise but at least he was a bit more combative off the ball in this game compared to last week. Whilst I know he has qualities as a '10', I do feel he has some qualities deeper too ala Herrera. Big ifs of course.
Nice read. He made lot of good runs but he really isn't someone who make thing happen. That's the problem. If ETH has praised his movements, pretty sure he has a future here.
Why is everyone passing to Bruno ? Seriously, I love that guy but needs to calm down I guess.
There is an interesting analysis / Twitter thread that looks at first half of Carabao cup game
It basically claims that DvB is positioning himself they way he was taught at Ajax (the way EtH wants him to?) but none of the other players have a clue of that system / understand what Donny is doing / or are intentionally not giving him the pass, so Donny ends up getting zero passes and becomes a passenger.
My thoughts:
1. It's an interesting point when we are in possession. Maybe, indeed, not all the blame is on DvB, but if nobody else understands you and you keep doing it - what does it say about you?
2. Still doesn't explain him being 100% useless when we are out of possession and trying to get the ball back.
It basically claims that DvB is positioning himself they way he was taught at Ajax (the way EtH wants him to?) but none of the other players have a clue of that system / understand what Donny is doing / or are intentionally not giving him the pass, so Donny ends up getting zero passes and becomes a passenger.
My thoughts:
1. It's an interesting point when we are in possession. Maybe, indeed, not all the blame is on DvB, but if nobody else understands you and you keep doing it - what does it say about you?
2. Still doesn't explain him being 100% useless when we are out of possession and trying to get the ball back.
I know it's not something tangible but I do believe character and personality (on the pitch) matter a lot. DVB is rather weak in this matter and it's definitely holding him back; same for Sancho. Sometimes you need 'passion', negative, positive or whatever it is to affect a game. It's hard to suddenly be a game raising, shouting, chest beating cnut if that's not innately you but it can help. They should channel their frustrations with their own or other player's games by throwing a massive strop and get angry at their teammates and go charging 100 mph into a ball etc.
Fergie used to do it by over criticising one player at half time to get a reaction from the team. Bruno does it by being a whinging brat and always being visibly available on the pitch and never shying even if he does ridiculous passes etc. It's on the player and the manager to control but you need your players to let it out on the pitch too.
A bit random but I look at Ashley Young, who has above average ability and I think he 'made' it at Utd and his career in general by being unabashedly himself and not accepting feeling inferior. He could have easily fettered to lower leagues etc. Don't get wrong, he should have never have stayed as long as he did etc but I 'get' why he did.
Ok body language, psychology lesson over.
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It means he's unable to adapt to the hero ball playstyle that our players are used to.
The day he becomes useful is the day we've finally been accustomed to how Ten Hag wants us to play. Until then, our final third pattern of plays are basically passing around trying to find Bruno on the half turn and hope he does something.
This is not a new issue at United. Look when Mata played. He will come deep and take over the possession even though other players are in better space.
I noticed it much earlier even when Berbatov played. He would move and want the ball but it won't be passed to him.
ETH made Donny and so he knows what he is capable of and more importantly his style of play. I am sure privately ETH would be instructing his players. Already he has said that Donny is not going anywhere in the summer.
I noticed it much earlier even when Berbatov played. He would move and want the ball but it won't be passed to him.
ETH made Donny and so he knows what he is capable of and more importantly his style of play. I am sure privately ETH would be instructing his players. Already he has said that Donny is not going anywhere in the summer.
Starting with Donny is like having a player sent off as soon as the starting whistle is blown.
If Van De Beek starts again this Saturday, we will know that he is somehow doing what he is supposed to do and the rest of the team is to adapt to him.
If that is true (which is what this analysis says but I have some doubts esp in out of possession phase) then EtH is to be blamed. He can't be playing DvB and the rest of the team in two different styles and just waiting for one of them to catch up
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Sam Allardyce lost a lot of weight
The Master
Seems to me ETH is saying that you not crush DVB furthermore down the drain. Managers are praising shit performances all the time so the players dont fall further down
This annoys me so much. 7 passes in 45 mins. I watch him and I can’t believe how shit he is. I always used to say he will get 20 plus games a season and will become a good squad option with a future here. Maybe under ETH he will but he looks worse than ever to me.
His fanboys always say its someone's or something else's fault (Bruno's character, the players not seeing his runs, the system).
Donny's just fecking sh*te full stop.
A inexperienced kid, Garnacho, has been more influential than him.
Donny's just fecking sh*te full stop.
A inexperienced kid, Garnacho, has been more influential than him.
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I think its worse. When you get a teamate sent off you elevate your game. Including Donny must have the opposite effect
To me, it's not very impressive to say he has positioned himself as in the Ajax structure but isn't getting the ball.
Even a kid on the playground that plays the number 10 position, a privileged position on the pitch has the sense to seek to impact the game if things aren't going his way. What the hell is the point in playing a flawless game in the Ajax mould that achieves precisely nothing in real terms. He's at Man United. That Ajax side doesn't even exist anymore!
Even a kid on the playground that plays the number 10 position, a privileged position on the pitch has the sense to seek to impact the game if things aren't going his way. What the hell is the point in playing a flawless game in the Ajax mould that achieves precisely nothing in real terms. He's at Man United. That Ajax side doesn't even exist anymore!
ETH is being kind. He knows Donny is shot for confidence and he knows he’s going to have to move him on. Advertising him as “doing all the right things but not quite happening for him” is a perfectly reasonable stance for him to take in public.
He will be loaned in Jan and sold in June.
If we’re going up be honest, most of us would acknowledge we’re nowhere near close to being a great passing team yet. There’s still too many moments of individual brilliance when we do score — when Donny is on the bench, that is — and hardly any goals scored that you’d say we were well worked team goals.
ETH clearly wants to develop the squad into one that opens pockets of space with passing and third men running, but we’re miles away from that vision being realized. We’ve ground out some good wins, but we’re not there yet.
ETH clearly wants to develop the squad into one that opens pockets of space with passing and third men running, but we’re miles away from that vision being realized. We’ve ground out some good wins, but we’re not there yet.
From what I’ve seen of him, he seems be our best finger pointer in the team. He’s world class at telling players where to pass the ball.
Thats leadership.
ETH said loaning him makes no sense which makes good sense IMO
If he cannot impose himself in the squad then there is no place for him anyway and he would be moved on.
I've been a critic of his performances the last couple of games but even I can see that his team mates are just not passing him the ball.
It's quite similar to how the players play when Ronaldo is on the pitch, but in reverse.
It's quite similar to how the players play when Ronaldo is on the pitch, but in reverse.
Receiving and making passes are two very different things. Plus, perhaps opponents just “let” him be free knowing his passes will not be threatening.
That's because he will just pass it back to them. Doesnt exactly helps speed the attack up.
It does if he moves to another position to receive the ball back. But anyway, I don't see how he is going to succeed. He needs other players to pass to him.
Hope he doesn't
He's always moving into positions that may otherwise be useful, but unless maybe he's running in behind, the player giving him the ball knows he's getting it back immediately if he gives it to Donny. No matter how great his movement might be, it doesn't matter much if he's not going to do anything if he's given the ball.
It's like having Pippo Inzaghi in midfield.
We are a few building blocks away from getting a team that plays the ETH system. A proper no. 9 and a possession based transition midfielder to replace Fred is ideal. We are much used to impact players like rashford and bruno and it'll take a couple of years to build a team in his mould.
Not saying VDB will become world class all of a sudden but there is a lot we can get out of him with the right players around.
Not saying VDB will become world class all of a sudden but there is a lot we can get out of him with the right players around.
“Players don’t pass him the ball” give me a break, he’s not 12 years old. Demand the ball, go and get the ball, show some intensity, some passion. Not getting passed the ball Is the worst excuse I’ve ever seen for a player not performing. He’s just far too passive.
They pass to Ronaldo because even at his worst he can do something. Donny does nothing with the ball.
There's (some) truth to players opting not to pass to him at times, but its largely because they don't expect him to do anything useful with the ball. He just doesn't have enough, skill wise and personality wise, to make a difference at this level.
Tbh I expect that playing him in recent games was a final opportunity for him. Makes sense for ETH to praise him, he's still a player he's managing, and still an asset that United own and will be looking to sell sooner rather than later.
I wouldn't be surprised if he even leaves in January, although the summer may be more likely unless we also sign in January.
Tbh I expect that playing him in recent games was a final opportunity for him. Makes sense for ETH to praise him, he's still a player he's managing, and still an asset that United own and will be looking to sell sooner rather than later.
I wouldn't be surprised if he even leaves in January, although the summer may be more likely unless we also sign in January.
I was most interested in how he'd grasp the game today. As one of the most experienced players I thought he'd try imposing himself, but he felt rather anonymous.
I know it was only one half with a mismatched team but I didn't see him get into good positions or make intelligent runs much (unless I missed some)
Anyone got stats for him?
I know it was only one half with a mismatched team but I didn't see him get into good positions or make intelligent runs much (unless I missed some)
Anyone got stats for him?
Hard to keep track of a ghost. Besides judging from the complete lack of interest/posts from the Cadiz game, I doubt if anyone cares about him anymore.
I have rarely seen a supposedly talented player's career going to trash so badly in such short time. And the worst part is - he is now with the manager that made him great, so it's hard to blame Ole for all of it. Maybe Ole didn't help back in the day, but that's a distant past now. What the feck is his excuse now?
I’m ready to admit defeat on Beek now too. I still hope we get to a point where we play amazing pass and move footy, Ajax on steroids, and maybe in that magical set up Beek thrives, but we are half a team away from that and we can’t wait.
Ronolad went from world class to laughingstock in a year and change.
At this point, the expectations for Donnie are so low, that one good pass and he will be back up to superstardom again.
The only tiny difference is that Ronaldo is 37-38, when a footballer's decline is typically rapid (even if they last that long), whereas VDB should be approaching his prime as a midfielder at 25.
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