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Donny van de Beek Netherlands flag

2020-21 Performances


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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
36
Goals
1
Assists
2
Yellow cards
1
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There’s absolutely nothing wrong with giving him time to adapt and find his place in the squad and team. Some people come in and it’s easy, others struggle and that is not necessarily based on talent. I’ve no doubts Donny will get plenty of game time but I do trust Ole that if he’s not playing currently, it’s because there are players in better form ahead of him. You have to fight for your chances in training and when you get them, you have to take them, no matter where you are played positionally. That’s how top teams work and it’s why quality players are on benches.

Let’s face it, he’s played games and in those games he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire so far. He’s not a no.10 so he needs to find his place in one of the midfield positions or wide like Pogba has.
 
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with giving him time to adapt and find his place in the squad and team. Some people come in and it’s easy, others struggle and that is not necessarily based on talent. I’ve no doubts Donny will get plenty of game time but I do trust Ole that if he’s not playing currently, it’s because there are players in better form ahead of him. You have to fight for your chances in training and when you get them, you have to take them, no matter where you are played positionally. That’s how top teams work and it’s why quality players are on benches.

Let’s face it, he’s played games and in those games he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire so far. He’s not a no.10 so he needs to find his place in one of the midfield positions or wide like Pogba has.
The problem in my opinion is that we're actually putting more pressure on him than if he played here and there (regularly, even if not often). Now every game will be under microscope, and it's not easy to perform in a tight game being thrown at the last 10 mins.
 
Needs time, bringing him on for 10 mins here or there is not enough.
When he started a few games he actually fitted in well, he will get chances and i hope he takes them.
 
The problem in my opinion is that we're actually putting more pressure on him than if he played here and there (regularly, even if not often). Now every game will be under microscope, and it's not easy to perform in a tight game being thrown at the last 10 mins.
I think the key is bringing him on when we’ve got a game wrapped up. Rather than trying to force a win by bringing him on and piling pressure on him.

I’m confident he will become a valued part of the squad, right now we need results and he hasn’t set the world alight in his cameo’s so far so Ole is right to not start him at this time.
 
When he starts passing the ball forward instead of backwards I’m sure Ole will favor him. As things stand he is in the right pecking order.
 
Obviously struggling to make an impact, he isn't a holding midfielder, so he can either play as a box to box player or as a number 10. Unfortunately with Fernandes pretty much being the best player in the league right now he stands no chance getting into the team as a number 10.

Fred's form in centre mid has also meant getting in the team in the box to box position is hard.

Plus Pogba has shone more in recent weeks and has also shown he can play on the left.

So at the moment Donny just has to sit and wait. Which lets be honest was always likely going to be the case. To be honest, though the fact that that he is basically a reserve just shows how deep our squad is. Genuinely think this is the best squad we have had since 2008
 
The problem in my opinion is that we're actually putting more pressure on him than if he played here and there (regularly, even if not often). Now every game will be under microscope, and it's not easy to perform in a tight game being thrown at the last 10 mins.
True, but if he can't stand up to this we probably don't want him anywag
 
Not that I'm too worried about van de Beek, but he was already dropped to bench in last Netherlands games (after joining United and not playing much), wasn't he?

He was never regular in national team to begin with.
 
When you go to a club as big as ours, you should know that you will probably be a squad player, and it should be like that, unless you are a world class talent as Messi, Ronaldo etc. At this moment only Bruno, Marcus, and Maguire (captaincy, price tag, fitness, etc) are the only ones guaranteed to play, all the other places are to be fought.

The last 7 years we've been playing anyone in our team, just remember not long ago it was frequent to see lingard, pereira, fellaini, young, lukaku, etc either players not good enough or past it.

You don't see that anymore, and that's Ole's work, so having players like VDB in the bench is a privilege not all clubs can have. Look at our bench against Everton in the carabao and compare it to the bench we usually had under mou and you can see the difference.

If VDB as a player can't be thrilled and motivated to be among the best and try to compete against them for places, then this club isn't for him and he should go back to Ajax, because we are heading up and forming a team that will win leagues and will compete for europe, and that's the aim.

Ole said he will be successful here, and I firmly believe in that.
 
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The problem in my opinion is that we're actually putting more pressure on him than if he played here and there (regularly, even if not often). Now every game will be under microscope, and it's not easy to perform in a tight game being thrown at the last 10 mins.
Absolutely. It’s not easy, however he has had eight starts in all competitions and featured in 19 games overall (although as you say, some of those are 10-15 minutes at the end). He started in three of our six Champions League games, the only competition we have failed in so far, and has one goal and one assist to his name overall. He’s had chances to impact games and other than that one good performance with Mata in the Carabao and that one tidy game as a deep lying midfielder, I don’t think anyone can say he’s done anything to warrant being in the starting 11 right now.
That doesn’t mean that he won’t be eventually and I do expect him to get more chances against City and especially Watford.
 
I'm intrigued by the idea of selling Martial and buying a prime RW and just giving Van De Beek some games as a false 9 option behind Cavani or Greenwood, who I'd like to see more centrally.

Rashford(James)-----------------Cavani(Greenwood, VDB)----------------------RW(Diallo)
----------------------------------------------------Bruno(VDB)----------------------------------------------------
---------------------Fred (VDB, Caicedo)------------------DM(McTominay)------------------------

is 12 guys for 6 spots, you can loan Pellistri to get another wide option or plug him in for James if he goes. The occasional game for Puigmal (19, scoring from midfield and versatile) or another youth player wouldn't be so bad, we also realistically would somehow probably will keep Mata, Matic or Lingard for another season.

This is what I think will happen too.

I dont think Van De Beek personally has a chance to find 'his role' at United unless he ends up playing like the false 9. If deeper he gets the more competitive aspect of midfield where I think others are already better - as a false 9 he can go one vs one against Martial.

There is a reason people called Van De Beek a player like Muller. Just because other people dont see it doesnt mean it's not particularly true - it depends if Ole one day sees it; or even just one day tries it out because Martial is having an unfortunately inconsistent performance and is replaced by Van De Beek because we have no one else.

We have seen Van De Beek is good at beating the press, he isnt good as through balls but he is good at short passes and interlinking players together with simple passes, he is good and finding the spaces and making the runs and 95% of his finishes are within the box even though he may start off outside them at times. He is good at heading. His runs receiving the balls centrally off players like Bruno Fernandes and him making a simple back pass to another player free in space or a nice finish doesnt sound as bad as many people would think in my opinion.

Let's see if it ever happens.
 
In his first few appearances, Donny did look really good. It’s not as though he was poor and slid down the order. He looked good, and Ole dropped him anyway.

But we’re level on points with Liverpool so there can’t be any complaints with Ole, but it’s hard to see a future for Donny at OT. He’s not going to be content being a squad player for us.
 
In his first few appearances, Donny did look really good. It’s not as though he was poor and slid down the order. He looked good, and Ole dropped him anyway.

But we’re level on points with Liverpool so there can’t be any complaints with Ole, but it’s hard to see a future for Donny at OT. He’s not going to be content being a squad player for us.
He didn't, and hasn't. If everyone isn't pretending that he did, then they would recognize why he is exactly where he is.
 
He's probably worse than the others in training, so he doesn't get to start. Simple as that.
 
In his first few appearances, Donny did look really good. It’s not as though he was poor and slid down the order. He looked good, and Ole dropped him anyway.
It was couple of games or so. He struggled to get selected, then had couple of games where he did good (nothing spectacular). Lost his spot because of the rotation. Again got 1-2 chances were he looked just ok-ish. He has been a mixed bag. \

He is rightfully fighting to get a spot. Unless of course he has a different skill, like being a good winger or something.
Then again, I am not worried much. A good player puts his head down, does better than others in training and makes the manager pick him.
 
He was never regular in national team to begin with.
Well that makes the panic in this thread even more odd.

True, but if he can't stand up to this we probably don't want him anywag
Absolutely. It’s not easy, however he has had eight starts in all competitions and featured in 19 games overall (although as you say, some of those are 10-15 minutes at the end). He started in three of our six Champions League games, the only competition we have failed in so far, and has one goal and one assist to his name overall. He’s had chances to impact games and other than that one good performance with Mata in the Carabao and that one tidy game as a deep lying midfielder, I don’t think anyone can say he’s done anything to warrant being in the starting 11 right now.
That doesn’t mean that he won’t be eventually and I do expect him to get more chances against City and especially Watford.
Firstly, my personal opinion on van de Beek is he's not an attacking midfielder. His strengths don't suit playing on the edge of the box like Bruno or Pogba, he is not a threat in that area. We're setting him up for failure, the same as with Pogba in midfield. Ole got it completely wrong (should've switched them).

In Donny case, we should move him either deeper into midfield or higher into the box.

Secondly, he's not an impact player. He's a supporting player, he will help to move the ball around, get away from pressing etc, but don't expect him to "create for himself" the way Bruno, Pogba or Rashford do.

He is very good in tight spaces, and has good awareness. Combined with workrate, he can make a decent midfielder.

He can help us playing through midfield but I guess Ole has some reservations over his lack of athletism, fair enough.

The reason he's not doing well is because Ole 1) does not trust him to play from the start 2) doesn't like subbing midfielders 3) still believes he's an impact attacking player.

All things considered, strange transfer and I wouldn't be surprised to see him sold at the end of the season.
 
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In his first few appearances, Donny did look really good. It’s not as though he was poor and slid down the order. He looked good, and Ole dropped him anyway.

But we’re level on points with Liverpool so there can’t be any complaints with Ole, but it’s hard to see a future for Donny at OT. He’s not going to be content being a squad player for us.

As an impartial view, Whoscored rates him this season at 6.39 in his appearances, worse on average than any of our other midfielders, hardly very good.

You may be a fan of his playstyle and he may come good but in no way has his performances been "Very good"
 
In his first few appearances, Donny did look really good. It’s not as though he was poor and slid down the order. He looked good, and Ole dropped him anyway.

But we’re level on points with Liverpool so there can’t be any complaints with Ole, but it’s hard to see a future for Donny at OT. He’s not going to be content being a squad player for us.

He looked really good in which position? What did he do that was really good? Ole dropped him anyway? I recall he got dropped after the West Ham game where he started in the 10 role and we couldn't get out our own half.

Bruno came on in his position and we scored 3 goals.... reason why he is dropped is because there is a player who is performing better in that position.

Just because a new player has not got a place in the starting 11 in the first 6 months you see no future? No one saw a future for Fred.

Stop being reactionary and have patience.
 
When you go to a club as big as ours, you should know that you will probably be a squad player, and it should be like that, unless you are a world class talent as Messi, Ronaldo etc. At this moment only Bruno, Marcus, and Maguire (captaincy, price tag, fitness, etc) are the only ones guaranteed to play, all the other places are to be fought.

The last 7 years we've been playing anyone in our team, just remember not long ago it was frequent to see lingard, pereira, fellaini, young, lukaku, etc either players not good enough or past it.

You don't see that anymore, and that's Ole's work, so having players like VDB in the bench is a privilege not all clubs can have. Look at our bench against Everton in the carabao and compare it to the bench we usually had under mou and you can see the difference.

If VDB as a player can't be thrilled and motivated to be among the best and try to compete against them for places, then this club isn't for him and he should go back to Ajax, because we are heading up and forming a team that will win leagues and will compete for europe, and that's the aim.

Ole said he will be successful here, and I firmly believe in that.

Really deserves credit for the clear out so far.
 
When you go to a club as big as ours, you should know that you will probably be a squad player, and it should be like that, unless you are a world class talent as Messi, Ronaldo etc. At this moment only Bruno, Marcus, and Maguire (captaincy, price tag, fitness, etc) are the only ones guaranteed to play, all the other places are to be fought.

The last 7 years we've been playing anyone in our team, just remember not long ago it was frequent to see lingard, pereira, fellaini, young, lukaku, etc either players not good enough or past it.

You don't see that anymore, and that's Ole's work, so having players like VDB in the bench is a privilege not all clubs can have. Look at our bench against Everton in the carabao and compare it to the bench we usually had under mou and you can see the difference.

If VDB as a player can't be thrilled and motivated to be among the best and try to compete against them for places, then this club isn't for him and he should go back to Ajax, because we are heading up and forming a team that will win leagues and will compete for europe, and that's the aim.

Ole said he will be successful here, and I firmly believe in that.

Normally, the bolded part would be an /thread.

But there's a fair chance that this was a Woodward signing and Ole isn't playing him due to politics, (a bit more complicated that just that, of course).

Woodbleep's been flying under the radar for a while due to all of the positivity right now, but it's dangerous for the fanbase to ever lose sight of the fact that he's still and always will be 'Me Manchester United, Me Make the Biggest Deals Me Pay 250k/w to Players to Feel Like Big Biggest Man Me Me ME'
 
He looked really good in which position? What did he do that was really good? Ole dropped him anyway? I recall he got dropped after the West Ham game where he started in the 10 role and we couldn't get out our own half.

Bruno came on in his position and we scored 3 goals.... reason why he is dropped is because there is a player who is performing better in that position.

Just because a new player has not got a place in the starting 11 in the first 6 months you see no future? No one saw a future for Fred.

Stop being reactionary and have patience.

I agree with this and one of the best recent examples for a player who's outstanding in his position is Fabinho. He didn't start fixtures immediately but was nurtured into the first 11 by Klopp. Obviously Klopp has a very good basis to develop players more so than what we can give Ole credit for but transitions take time. That's why all the noise about Werner / Havertz is reactionary.
 
Normally, the bolded part would be an /thread.

But there's a fair chance that this was a Woodward signing and Ole isn't playing him due to politics, (a bit more complicated that just that, of course).

Woodbleep's been flying under the radar for a while due to all of the positivity right now, but it's dangerous for the fanbase to ever lose sight of the fact that he's still and always will be 'Me Manchester United, Me Make the Biggest Deals Me Pay 250k/w to Players to Feel Like Big Biggest Man Me Me ME'
VdB is a quality player and if the reason he's not playing is because of "politics" as opposed to him not deserving to start over the other midfielders, then that would be very silly and I'd be disappointed in Ole because he'd be putting his ego above the benefits of the club. And that's exactly why I'm sure it's not that.

The more likely reason is that Ole noticed Donny is still not ready for the pace and physicality of the premier league, which is why he's given him a lot more chances in the champions league (and I expect it will be the same in the Europa). Instead of throwing him out there, he's easing him into the league by giving him minutes here and there so that he won't immediately be labelled a flop (like Fred was in his first year) as soon as he underperforms. If anything, depending on how the situation evolves from here on out, I think this could be another example of Ole's good man management
 
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He looked really good in which position? What did he do that was really good? Ole dropped him anyway? I recall he got dropped after the West Ham game where he started in the 10 role and we couldn't get out our own half.

Bruno came on in his position and we scored 3 goals.... reason why he is dropped is because there is a player who is performing better in that position.

Just because a new player has not got a place in the starting 11 in the first 6 months you see no future? No one saw a future for Fred.

Stop being reactionary and have patience.

I specifically referred to the first few matches.

Fred is happy to be a squad player for us and maybe Donny is too, although I seriously doubt it. And I’m sure he’s thinking WTF that he’s now behind Dan James.

But if all parties are happy with Donny getting nothing but garbage minutes, that’s great.
 
VdB is a quality player and if the reason he's not playing is because of "politics" as opposed to him not deserving to start over the other midfielders, then that would be very silly and I'd be disappointed in Ole because he'd be putting his ego above the benefits of the club. And that's exactly why I'm sure it's not that.

The more likely reason is that Ole noticed Donny is still not ready for the pace and physicality of the premier league, which is why he's given him a lot more chances in the champions league (and I expect it will be the same in the Europa). Instead of throwing him out there, he's easing him into the league by giving him minutes here and there so that he won't immediately be labelled a flop (like Fred was in his first year) as soon as he underperforms. If anything, depending on how the situation evolves from here on out, I think this could be another example of Ole's good man management

We don't know how he's settling into home life. It's reasonable to give him as much time as he needs to be physically and mentally ready. Some are ignoring that certain subs have been forced on Ole which restricted chances of Donny getting time.
 
DVB has played only 253 minutes in premier league and is 23 years old . How come so many here say so much negativity about DVB based on what ! DVB is last player to worry about in our team.
 
Selling Martial? so VDB can play as a false 9?

Thanks God you're not the one who run United :lol:

Bruno and Rashford are the core starters in the front 6. Presumably Bruno provides the most value centrally and Rashford the most from an attacking position on the left.


Rashford----9------RW
--------------Bruno-------
---------CM------DM-----

Who's the next starter you'd build your thinking around? I think it's very much up for grabs, really. Cavani, Martial, Pogba (even at his low ebb he's in this group) Fred and McTominay are the 6 most consistently productive players we have, so first choice at the moment is:

Rashford on the right and Martial on the left with Cavani up top or Pogba instead of one of Martial or Cavani with the other up top based on the style of game and how deep the opposition is and if we need a threat in the box for crosses (Cavani) or more interplay (Martial).

And then Van De Beek competing with Fred and McTominay and Pogba for the 2 holding spots that make sense most of the time since freeing up Bruno completely with 2 holders is our best option at the moment.

I think Greenwood will score a lot of goals as a 9 and he's hurting us at RW at the moment, especially against teams that sit deep. I'm not sure we're not better off with Martial here versus the fee we'd get for him (say what, 60m?) and having Cavani and Greenwood fight for the 9 job next year with Van De Beek as a backup option (along with Rashford able to play there obviously, with James, Pogba or even Bruno on the left) in 21/22 and spending that money on the DM and LCB spots we badly, badly need upgrades in.

If money is no issue, and we have good solutions we feel confident in at those spots without selling Martial, then sure keep him, but we do need to upgrade from a 9 who has 53 in 157 for us and 1 in 25 for France, unless you think he's going to become a proper 20+ goal scorer in the league most years in the 2nd half of his 20s, which he easily could. So yeah, if some Serie A team or PSG wants to spend 60M on Martial and we can get Haaland or Sancho or Grealish for that plus 30M so I'd do that in a heartbeat, sure, even if it meant hoping to squeeze a good second season out of Cavani and Greenwood being trusted to play centrally and god forbid 10 games a season of Van De Beek as a false 9 or Rashford getting 10 games up there with Pogba or his replacement or even James at LW.
 
Don't see why we would be starting him now that things seem to be clicking with the starting lineup. A little surprising he hasn't come off the bench recently though.
 
VdB is a quality player and if the reason he's not playing is because of "politics" as opposed to him not deserving to start over the other midfielders, then that would be very silly and I'd be disappointed in Ole because he'd be putting his ego above the benefits of the club. And that's exactly why I'm sure it's not that.

The more likely reason is that Ole noticed Donny is still not ready for the pace and physicality of the premier league, which is why he's given him a lot more chances in the champions league (and I expect it will be the same in the Europa). Instead of throwing him out there, he's easing him into the league by giving him minutes here and there so that he won't immediately be labelled a flop (like Fred was in his first year) as soon as he underperforms. If anything, depending on how the situation evolves from here on out, I think this could be another example of Ole's good man management

Actually if it were indeed the case that there are some politics at play, then it wouldn't be very silly at all and it'd be exactly the opposite of Ole putting his ego above the benefits of the club since the effects he'd be trying to counter would be the effects that brought in Pogba, etc and wrecked the dressing room culture to the point where he has to play politics to fix it. This would be another example of Ole's good man management.

Since your post is largely just what @Nicolarra90 already said (@Nicolarra90 included something that stood out from the run-of-the-mill dvB post), I'll chuck in some of the stuff implied in the "(a bit more complicated that just that, of course)" part.

First, try to do your best to never lose sight of Woodblight's personality. TL:DR, when a narcissist like Woodward starts 'losing status' it ain't pretty. See Donald Trump. Same exact thing.

1. He will have been miffed/lost face with the Bruno transfer. He'll be hyper-aware of the whole 'what if we'd gotten Bruno in the summer' dynamic. Sadly, it won't be because of the 'we might have been fifteen points better off' side of that dynamic. It'll be the '#%$^, they made ME, EDWARD WOODWARD, THE SAVIOR OF THIS CLUB, LOOK BAD' side. When people like him are in positions like that, they will be out to try and show people up. They often *appear* to turn to spite, even deliberate sabotage. But this is almost overwhelmingly always actually an artifact of the next point.
2. The "Real Madrid" transfer falling through. To Blubwad - again, due to the narcissism - this was a chance 'to look like he's on Madrid's level'. Narcissists sort of 'lunge' to try and seem part of a group they're not in. Woodplop has a looooooooooooooong history of this type of behavior. Rooney-textgate is a textbook example. Literally a textbook example. You put it in a textbook and one million out of one million psychiatrists (good ones who know what they're doing) will go 'Yes, that's a pretty good example for the general public'.
3. There was a lot of talk about his 'incompetency' around that time. He had to do something. He's got the Sancho thing on the front-burner. The market's virtually frozen because Covid's happening. Internally, the Bruno transfer has made him look bad - particularly possibly to the Glazers, who just might be starting to get tired of the vitriol coming their way via him - and Ole and his team are doing in nine months what he hasn't been able to do in years. On top of all of this, he still has his innate need to splash on that 80m player, show everyone he's the big bad boss of MAnnnncheester United.
4. In this climate, Van der Sar offers him this 'Real Madrid' player for 36.8m.
5. Ole and the footballing people are on the fence; they wouldn't mind an extra warm body, but they also don't need one. Woodmire sees this as 'the united front against him' growing stronger. He *knows* they whisper behind his back and conspire. Pressure on all sides (pressure of his own creating). How dare they not immediately kiss his feet in gratitude for bringing them such a player. He must lay down the law.

That's actually still all the simple stuff. Many, many, many posters with intelligent track records have pointed out this possibility without bothering to list the obvious specifics.

Here's the fun part. Where it gets complicated is this:

Ole could have not really wanted this, but also been not totally opposed to getting an extra body in, and in the end chosen not to veto it due to politics, because he knew he could simultaneously have his cake and eat it, too, sort of. Again, and this might be hard for one (and that's not one's fault), one has to realize how narcissistic Woodpeep is.

If worst came to worst, he could both send a message to Woodfart ("This is what I'll do if you keep trying to force yourself into the footballing side - See? We're doing well without the player you forced through. We know what we're doing, now let us do our jobs. I won't say anything in public. You can still take all the credit later.") and manage the player as best he could while he sent that message. Crazy how the 'complicated part' boils down into two sentences while the underlying 'simple' stuff can take ten pages. That be like how it do.

It's great that you have your own opinion. (It absolutely could be as simple as the staff thinking he'd do better after some re-training. The Nani-renaissance happened after he was 'out of the team' for a lengthy spell which the staff almost certainly spent working intensively on the timing of his decision-making, trying to get him to stop waiting for 'the perfect time'.)

That being said, there can be deeper issues at work than one might realize and it's not a bad thing to be aware of and contemplate them - especially when there are elements present like Woodward with lengthy track records for just such organizationally-disruptive behavior.

The great part of @Nicolarra90's post was that he/she pointed out something specific that a good man-manager might say to someone in vdB's position to keep them motivated and trusting.
 
Actually if it were indeed the case that there are some politics at play, then it wouldn't be very silly at all and it'd be exactly the opposite of Ole putting his ego above the benefits of the club since the effects he'd be trying to counter would be the effects that brought in Pogba, etc and wrecked the dressing room culture to the point where he has to play politics to fix it. This would be another example of Ole's good man management.

Since your post is largely just what @Nicolarra90 already said (@Nicolarra90 included something that stood out from the run-of-the-mill dvB post), I'll chuck in some of the stuff implied in the "(a bit more complicated that just that, of course)" part.

First, try to do your best to never lose sight of Woodblight's personality. TL:DR, when a narcissist like Woodward starts 'losing status' it ain't pretty. See Donald Trump. Same exact thing.

1. He will have been miffed/lost face with the Bruno transfer. He'll be hyper-aware of the whole 'what if we'd gotten Bruno in the summer' dynamic. Sadly, it won't be because of the 'we might have been fifteen points better off' side of that dynamic. It'll be the '#%$^, they made ME, EDWARD WOODWARD, THE SAVIOR OF THIS CLUB, LOOK BAD' side. When people like him are in positions like that, they will be out to try and show people up. They often *appear* to turn to spite, even deliberate sabotage. But this is almost overwhelmingly always actually an artifact of the next point.
2. The "Real Madrid" transfer falling through. To Blubwad - again, due to the narcissism - this was a chance 'to look like he's on Madrid's level'. Narcissists sort of 'lunge' to try and seem part of a group they're not in. Woodplop has a looooooooooooooong history of this type of behavior. Rooney-textgate is a textbook example. Literally a textbook example. You put it in a textbook and one million out of one million psychiatrists (good ones who know what they're doing) will go 'Yes, that's a pretty good example for the general public'.
3. There was a lot of talk about his 'incompetency' around that time. He had to do something. He's got the Sancho thing on the front-burner. The market's virtually frozen because Covid's happening. Internally, the Bruno transfer has made him look bad - particularly possibly to the Glazers, who just might be starting to get tired of the vitriol coming their way via him - and Ole and his team are doing in nine months what he hasn't been able to do in years. On top of all of this, he still has his innate need to splash on that 80m player, show everyone he's the big bad boss of MAnnnncheester United.
4. In this climate, Van der Sar offers him this 'Real Madrid' player for 36.8m.
5. Ole and the footballing people are on the fence; they wouldn't mind an extra warm body, but they also don't need one. Woodmire sees this as 'the united front against him' growing stronger. He *knows* they whisper behind his back and conspire. Pressure on all sides (pressure of his own creating). How dare they not immediately kiss his feet in gratitude for bringing them such a player. He must lay down the law.

That's actually still all the simple stuff. Many, many, many posters with intelligent track records have pointed out this possibility without bothering to list the obvious specifics.

Here's the fun part. Where it gets complicated is this:

Ole could have not really wanted this, but also been not totally opposed to getting an extra body in, and in the end chosen not to veto it due to politics, because he knew he could simultaneously have his cake and eat it, too, sort of. Again, and this might be hard for one (and that's not one's fault), one has to realize how narcissistic Woodpeep is.

If worst came to worst, he could both send a message to Woodfart ("This is what I'll do if you keep trying to force yourself into the footballing side - See? We're doing well without the player you forced through. We know what we're doing, now let us do our jobs. I won't say anything in public. You can still take all the credit later.") and manage the player as best he could while he sent that message. Crazy how the 'complicated part' boils down into two sentences while the underlying 'simple' stuff can take ten pages. That be like how it do.

It's great that you have your own opinion. (It absolutely could be as simple as the staff thinking he'd do better after some re-training. The Nani-renaissance happened after he was 'out of the team' for a lengthy spell which the staff almost certainly spent working intensively on the timing of his decision-making, trying to get him to stop waiting for 'the perfect time'.)

That being said, there can be deeper issues at work than one might realize and it's not a bad thing to be aware of and contemplate them - especially when there are elements present like Woodward with lengthy track records for just such organizationally-disruptive behavior.

The great part of @Nicolarra90's post was that he/she pointed out something specific that a good man-manager might say to someone in vdB's position to keep them motivated and trusting.

I dont understand.

Try make it simple for someone who is simple
 
I think the issue with Donny is one to do with adaptability, same with what happened with Fred.

Donny is an Ajax academy graduate, he has excellent touch and control of the ball, good passing and good overall technique, and played in an Ajax team under ten Hag, who plays a possession style with fluid passing and movements (short & indirect passes with a lot of one touch passing and movements).

United with Solskjaer play with a direct style and requires our midfield players to switch the ball quickly to an attacking player or winger/fullback (longer passes into channels/wide areas or driving the ball forward), and Donny haven't adapted yet to this style (he still plays short passes and prefers to exchange short passes to progress the ball).

I confident once Donny adapts to United's style, he will be a quality option and can also compete for a regular starting place if he maintains high level of performances.
 
I agree with this and one of the best recent examples for a player who's outstanding in his position is Fabinho. He didn't start fixtures immediately but was nurtured into the first 11 by Klopp. Obviously Klopp has a very good basis to develop players more so than what we can give Ole credit for but transitions take time. That's why all the noise about Werner / Havertz is reactionary.

Agreed, in a season like this where anything can happen, we cannot take risks.

Klopp got Fabinho in when his midfield was injured and he took his opportunities. Donny has not really taken his chances when he has got them.

We play with 2 DM's so he can only really fit in as a 10, unless people are happy to drop Bruno for him, just to get minutes, how do we get him in?

I would not drop Bruno for him.
 
I specifically referred to the first few matches.

Fred is happy to be a squad player for us and maybe Donny is too, although I seriously doubt it. And I’m sure he’s thinking WTF that he’s now behind Dan James.

But if all parties are happy with Donny getting nothing but garbage minutes, that’s great.

If you watch Manutd play, whether you like it or not, we play 2 DM's. He is behind Dan James, ofcourse he is because they play different positions, one is a winger and one is a CAM. Its like saying, Matic is upset because he is behind Bailly in the CB position, makes no sense.

Fred is a starter actually, him and McTominay start in most PL games. Donny is not a CM, we have seen it on 2 occasions this season where he played there and we were open.
 
Pogba is going, he's going to take his position in the squad next year.

He's gonna be ready and settled by next season, it's a smart move by Ole bringing him in this year.
 
Donny is not a CM, we have seen it on 2 occasions this season where he played there and we were open.
I mean, you might be right in the end but this sentence alone is quite easy to dismiss. We looked very much open against, say, Leeds or Aston Villa, both games featuring the hallowed Fred-McTominay duo. We also looked open in plenty of games with Matic who is supposed to be a defensive midfielder.
 
I mean, you might be right in the end but this sentence alone is quite easy to dismiss. We looked very much open against, say, Leeds or Aston Villa, both games featuring the hallowed Fred-McTominay duo. We also looked open in plenty of games with Matic who is supposed to be a defensive midfielder.

We scored 6 and could have had 10 against Leeds... but okay we were very open.

Villa had how many chances?

Yes, when Matic played as a sole DM, which is the reason why Ole goes with 2 DM's.

If you think we are open with 2 DM's, you need to watch the games we played with 1.
 
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