Against the likes of West Brom we should be expecting pretty much any combination of our midfielders to be enough.
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Something i didn't notice while watching the game. But he coaches the people he passes the ball to. Because sometimes they just don't see the next pass right away.
I like this idea, seems like a good tactics. No need to throw him in from the start to be honest, it was first 90' from him this season too. McTominay will be fresh on Sunday, and Fred probably is rested already.
I re-watched the first half of the Basaksehir game looking primarily at Van de Beek and Fred, because I had a hunch our quick attacking play had something to do with them, and was wondering if the feeling of insecure defending was down to them. Two things stood out:
1. Fred played very well but Van de Beek was astonishing in terms of quick transitions from defence to attack, and from side to side. His movement, speed of play, precision and choice of play was instrumental almost everytime Bruno, Telles, Cavani or Rashford found themselves up the pitch with a decent amount of space to attack in. We don’t have any other player that could have done the same.
2. There were two clear examples of weak defendingthat stood out, where more determined and intensive defending would have prevented dangerous attacks. Both were the kind that Herrera would never allow just out of tenacity.Apart from that, Fred and Van de Beek balanced well and protected well, the little trouble we got was mostly due to sloppiness from players like Bruno, Maguire and Telles. Basically I was positively surprised based on first impression.
Given that this was just 45 mins and against an opponent that couldn’t handle that kind of football very well, I’m moderately enthusiastic, but certainly eager to see more. It’s not so difficult to spot that Van de Beek has special capabilities when you watch for speed of transitions and compare with Pogba, Fred, McTominay. Bruno and sometimes Fred has that kind of speedy mind, but both lack the precision needed to do that in central midfield, and Bruno’s tactical instincts are much better developed in the last third of the pitch than the middle.
He is so so reliable passing target, if you know what I mean. Very comfortable on the ball too. I like his confidence, he invites pressure so that players come to him and leave space in behind. Bruno will love his passing between the lines.
He is the anti Pogba in terms of midfielder skills, not very strong, non-existent long range passing but knows how to play it quickly, does simple but effective things to get out of pressure and moves around to move himself available for a pass. He was much better than I expected and it wasn't an easy game to be honest.
My prediction is we will end up with him and McTominay in midfield in near future. But for now I'd stick to MdFred duo.
He is the anti Pogba in terms of midfielder skills, not very strong, non-existent long range passing but knows how to play it quickly, does simple but effective things to get out of pressure and moves around to move himself available for a pass. He was much better than I expected and it wasn't an easy game to be honest.
My prediction is we will end up with him and McTominay in midfield in near future. But for now I'd stick to MdFred duo.
He does, and that rubs off on the players around him. He gives away at least one clear cut chance per match by either attempting a ridiculous challenge (see latest game for evidence) or by passing the ball straight to an opposition player. In some games he does both. I know that a lot of people in here love him, I am not one of the admirers I am afraid.who's panicking?
Thanks for this, interesting read based on what you saw.
From watching United the last two season's I'm fully under the impression that almost all our faults start and end with the midfield. We have a front line that's on par with the best in the league, the issue with them is that no matter how many intelligent runs are made they're never found because the midfield are ponderous and take 4 or 5 touches before moving the ball (mostly sideways).
What I did see from VDB yesterday was that he never really took more than 1 touch before passing the ball. The only time he took multiple touches was when he was dribbling. This is something we absolutely need more of if we're to beat teams who sit deep, or generally if we want to win things.
Bruno is fantastic but he gives the ball away too often and slows play down. It might be worth trying Bruno a bit deeper or playing 3 AM's instead of wingers.
I recognize the midfield issues you’re talking about, and tempo is maybe the biggest issue I’ve had with it. When the ball arrives at the final third, the opposition is in order and the forwards have little space and a tough job, particularily as there are few filling in into the box from midfield. It was easy to tell Solskjær was frustrated with both on many occasions. Bruno made a huge difference in both regards, but there is so much more to go on. One swallow does not a summer make.
I agree Bruno can be sloppy. He sometimes slows play, but also is the player who will speed it up. To get quick passing play you need four or five quick passers, though, and a couple of quick thinkers.
I still think Bruno is better higher up, not just because his risky/sloppy passes yield more and cost less in that area, but especially as he to me seems to dally mor when he is deep, as if he’s looking for the key passes but it’s much harder to find one so far from goal.
With him and fernandes in the team now, I would be ok with selling Pogba. We’re definitely in a much better postion now if we do decide to sell.
Looks so positive in terms of passing, his urgency to pass the ball isn't coming from cowardice like it used to be with Cleverley, he actually passes forward a lot when the opportunity presents itself and when the angles are right.
Also he points with his arms a lot which gives an impression that he's trying to act like on field coach. Doesn't seem to influence his teammates too much at the moment but as his status grows within the squad I see him emerging as a tactical leader on the pitch, I'd like that.
Also he points with his arms a lot which gives an impression that he's trying to act like on field coach. Doesn't seem to influence his teammates too much at the moment but as his status grows within the squad I see him emerging as a tactical leader on the pitch, I'd like that.
Wut? Bruno slows play down?! If anything, he is speeding it too fast. It is a good idea to play our top assist and goal threat further back because we want to accommodate someone else.
That someone else might be good but he has to prove that he is better than Bruno first. And, people want to play 2 AM formation. It would not happen this season unless we are playing against a pretty bad team.
He has the odd loose touch and sometimes doesn’t get his weight of pass right but it’s nowhere near as regular as you make out, and he more than makes up for it with what he brings to the team.
sure he’s not perfect but he’s the best we have in terms of balance, I think him and DVB will make a really good partnership.
Fair enough. I grew up watching Bryan Robson and then later on, Roy Keane. Fred just doesn't cut it for me in comparison. I really hope that you are correct though and I am proved wrong and I will happily come back in here and admit it.
Clearly he’s no robson Keane or scholes and maybe that’s where you’re going wrong, you can’t compare him to them.
Fred is the best we have right now though so we have to accept his flaws, but he is an excellent water carrier.
I don’t think I am going wrong thinking that way. We are Manchester United, why should we have to settle for something? He might be the best we have right now but I can still want us to have a better player can’t I?
McTominay out injured, so good chance he starts after that display.
There is no such thing lightweight in modern football midfield because we don’t do long kick goal kick anymore. I wouldn’t be worried playing Fred & VDB again against Southampton.
The reason I worry about the VDB Fred partnership isnt because of VDB; it's more to do with Fred.
I really like Fred but he isnt a CDM. VDB moves all over the place as a CM to try find the right spaces before making a quick short pass before moving again and this can leave Fred by himself which he isnt always the most complacent thing he does.
I'd give it ago since we cant really knock it off unless it fails and it hasnt yet -
However, I really want to see VDB playing behind 2 strikers like Rashford and Greenwood and play Bruno as the slightly deeper one in midfield.
I feel like for our current strikers like Rashford, Martial, Greenwood they can get something from VDB'S short passing or his movement rather than Brunos clinical through balls which we arent always going to make the runs for against a low block.
I want to see the guy given a chance now. Ole is crying about match schedule and it's nearly december. The guy has hardly started a match. It's making me wonder if this is Pochettino's Dele alli signing behind the striker.
I really like Fred but he isnt a CDM. VDB moves all over the place as a CM to try find the right spaces before making a quick short pass before moving again and this can leave Fred by himself which he isnt always the most complacent thing he does.
I'd give it ago since we cant really knock it off unless it fails and it hasnt yet -
However, I really want to see VDB playing behind 2 strikers like Rashford and Greenwood and play Bruno as the slightly deeper one in midfield.
I feel like for our current strikers like Rashford, Martial, Greenwood they can get something from VDB'S short passing or his movement rather than Brunos clinical through balls which we arent always going to make the runs for against a low block.
I want to see the guy given a chance now. Ole is crying about match schedule and it's nearly december. The guy has hardly started a match. It's making me wonder if this is Pochettino's Dele alli signing behind the striker.
Yup, Bruno's contributions are not good enough and Fred is a shit midfield player.
Because we want VDB to play more.
I didnt say they should be dropped did I
I just see Bruno with a really hard working energy so I'd like to see Fred, Bruno and VDB in a midfield 3 with VDB having the ability to make runs in to the attacking space whilst Bruno gets to make chances or shoot from a bit deeper. I dont see Bruno's contribution dropping from playing a little bit deeper either; if he is allowed to get forward whilst Van de Beek covers for him and vice versa. I actually think alot of the time Bruno could pick out Van De Beek's runs if done right but ofcourse all of this might be wrong.
There is 3 hard working players in there as well, who will be dropping and running back every time an attacking run fails.
Let's see if it ever happens.
The issue is the formation. We need to go with 4 midfield players as Telles is good enough to cross the ball. Just go with two up front and play 4 midfield players. Yes we need a massive upgrade on Matic. Get a new DM and play Fred and DVB as left and right midfield players and Bruno forward of them.
I am just curious. What other top clubs play with 442?
Why the formation is the issue?
Southampton 2:3 Man Utd
Thought he was great. When the game needed him to find spaces in and arond the box he did that. Started showing some physicality. When he needed to keep possession he did that... even started spraying the ball about towards the end. VDB Fred Bruno should start from now.
His place in the starting lineup has to be cemented now, surely. Thought he was great.
He’s good when he gets on the ball. Which seems to be roughly once every ten minutes.
You can give him a hospital ball and he'll somehow be able to keep possession and keep it moving. Showcased some good long range passing towards the end as well. Should start moving forward.
Better today than last game with less defensive work required of him.
Obvious MotM aside, I thought he was out best player today. He's still not in sync with the team, he's way too fast and direct in thought and in action, but I really enjoy his game – movement, passing, decision-making
He's really really good. Him and Bruno really complement each other.
My only worry is how our defence copes without 2 holding midfielders if we play both VdB and Bruno full time
My only worry is how our defence copes without 2 holding midfielders if we play both VdB and Bruno full time
Doesn't assert himself enough on the ball when he's part of a 3, but he does always plays a good pass. Midweek in a 2 he was excellent. Later on today he took more risks/played longer balls and showed he has a very good passing range as well. Just needs more confidence/arrogance to take charge and use his talent. Hes a good player now, but has the ability to be an excellent one. Up to us to unlock that mentality in him, to take more risks, to take command more and not just be a supporting piece.
Easily the most press resistant player in the squad.
He'd made a couple of vital interception in the last game, in fairness.
He's clearly a level above all the other midfielders in terms of his football brain and practical technical ability.
Another player who surely has played himself into the first XI.
He keeps a hold of the ball too well to be a midfielder for us. Too forward thinking and doesn't really dally around like a twat.
he's kind of a 7/10 midfielder, too tidy at times, need to show some courage to bring the ball forward, take a shot, he just lays it off first time all the time, which could be good to speed up the play but hopefully with time he will get more confidents to go by himself.
He was great in the last 10 minutes though, just need to upgrade Matic in that midfield and learn how to defend set pieces
He was great in the last 10 minutes though, just need to upgrade Matic in that midfield and learn how to defend set pieces
Doesn’t give it away at all, quite refreshing to see.
When our players click with him... It's going to be goals galore.
My thoughts as well. Doesn't lose the ball to a press too often, recycles it well, doesn't shy away from ambitious, direct passes and puts in a shift both going forward and tracking back.
He isnt a midfielder, though he can play there. He wants to play one twos behind a striker.
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