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2020-21 Performances

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5.7 Season Average Rating
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36
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1
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2
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I am absolutely confident that if you give VDB a 2 month run at that position he will greatly improve his defensive contribution.
All attributes are there. Work rate, plays with energy, doesnt shy away from tackling or contact, disciplined.

This is a much different situation than Pogba. Pogba's mentality is I dont do the defensive side as well and thats okay whereas VDB will be more like Hererra.

Now obviously the way our midfield defended against Istanbul wasnt nearly good enough, especially in that period before Matic came on.
But VDB will get much better defending. Just give him a run of games and watch.
 
Borys said:
Yeah it could work I guess, but might as well play McTominay instead of Fred who isn't essential to our attacking play. Scott is also a ball winner, and Donny does the forward passing in that scenario. I also Rate McTominay long range passing higher than Fred.

So in two man midfield, VdB + Fred or McTominay maybe yes, VdB + Matic or Pogba definitely no.
He looks tailored to 4-3-3 or 5-3-2 (for extra protection).
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I agree with you.
 
I can't get enough of this player. Thank you Ajax.
 
HowYouDoin said:
I am absolutely confident that if you give VDB a 2 month run at that position he will greatly improve his defensive contribution.
All attributes are there. Work rate, plays with energy, doesnt shy away from tackling or contact, disciplined.

This is a much different situation than Pogba. Pogba's mentality is I dont do the defensive side as well and thats okay whereas VDB will be more like Hererra.

Now obviously the way our midfield defended against Istanbul wasnt nearly good enough, especially in that period before Matic came on.
But VDB will get much better defending. Just give him a run of games and watch.
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I agree with what you are saying but why would Ole want to do tha?

He hasnt got the time from fans to let a player learn defensive duties.

After every bad results / performance its Ole out.
 
UmbroDays said:
Nice. Thanks.

Yeah I think the most studies I did was when de Jong and Schone still played. So he seemed to be more attacking.

What would you say is the best position for him if we play a 4-2-3-1? In the 2 with Fred/McT or on the right of the 3?
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I think he could do a fine job in the 2 with a solid defensive player next to him and maybe let him get forward a bit more, because last game it seemed that Ole didn't want him to go forward all that much.
But it's hard to say because at Ajax while he was playing there, everything was a bit more fluid. So roaming around a bit wasn't unusual and he was contributing offensively as well as defensively.
 
romufc said:
I agree with what you are saying but why would Ole want to do tha?

He hasnt got the time from fans to let a player learn defensive duties.

After every bad results / performance its Ole out.
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Well its a trade off. VDB can make the midfield tick more than any of our other CM's.
If he can also improve defensively game to game then giving him time is a good return of investment.
And honestly how much time were Pogba and Martial given? Loads.
Now what if instead we gave Mason a 2 month run at CF and VDB a 2 month run at CM?
Not saying play them there 90 minutes a game and in all games. For example against Paris you clearly play Fred and McT cuz its been proven to work great. But little by little let Mason and VDB grow in their roles.
And honestly would we be that much worse off if Mason got Martial's minutes and VDB got at least 30 minutes at CM each game?

We have been saying for 5 years give Pogba and Martial time. How about 2 months for Mason and VDB?

I would start VDB against Southampton and I can almost guarantee he would do better defensively than against Istanbul. He will grow game to game because he has the attributes and he wants it. If playing at CM is his chance, he will make the best of it. I would bet on him and his character. instead we bet on Pogba and Martial and well hasnt turned out so great.
 
HowYouDoin said:
Well its a trade off. VDB can make the midfield tick more than any of our other CM's.
If he can also improve defensively game to game then giving him time is a good return of investment.
And honestly how much time were Pogba and Martial given? Loads.
Now what if instead we gave Mason a 2 month run at CF and VDB a 2 month run at CM?
Not saying play them there 90 minutes a game and in all games. For example against Paris you clearly play Fred and McT cuz its been proven to work great. But little by little let Mason and VDB grow in their roles.
And honestly would we be that much worse off if Mason got Martial's minutes and VDB got at least 30 minutes at CM each game?

We have been saying for 5 years give Pogba and Martial time. How about 2 months for Mason and VDB?
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I agree that he should be given time and you pick and chose the matches. Most home matches it could work, playing teams that sit back away from home like Burnley could work.

We have given Martial and Pogba time, it cost Jose his job.

Unfortunately, Ole is in a position where alot of fans are stern Ole out, they will not see logic in anything he does, only pick holes in everything he does.

Which is why I get he is cautious with Donny.
 
romufc said:
I agree that he should be given time and you pick and chose the matches. Most home matches it could work, playing teams that sit back away from home like Burnley could work.

We have given Martial and Pogba time, it cost Jose his job.

Unfortunately, Ole is in a position where alot of fans are stern Ole out, they will not see logic in anything he does, only pick holes in everything he does.

Which is why I get he is cautious with Donny.
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Yeah well Ole needs to pick his poison then. He will be criticized either way.
 
HowYouDoin said:
Well its a trade off. VDB can make the midfield tick more than any of our other CM's.
If he can also improve defensively game to game then giving him time is a good return of investment.
And honestly how much time were Pogba and Martial given? Loads.
Now what if instead we gave Mason a 2 month run at CF and VDB a 2 month run at CM?
Not saying play them there 90 minutes a game and in all games. For example against Paris you clearly play Fred and McT cuz its been proven to work great. But little by little let Mason and VDB grow in their roles.
And honestly would we be that much worse off if Mason got Martial's minutes and VDB got at least 30 minutes at CM each game?

We have been saying for 5 years give Pogba and Martial time. How about 2 months for Mason and VDB?

I would start VDB against Southampton and I can almost guarantee he would do better defensively than against Istanbul. He will grow game to game because he has the attributes and he wants it. If playing at CM is his chance, he will make the best of it. I would bet on him and his character. instead we bet on Pogba and Martial and well hasnt turned out so great.
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Mason, for me, is nowhere near ready to play as a our striker in any game other than Carabao Cup against lower league teams. If anyone should take Martial's place, it must be Cavani.

As for Donny, while I see your point, keep in mind that getting at least 30 minutes each game implies he is subbed on. With 3 subs only you can't really 'reserve' one for any player. I think Ole will use Donny and Fred (or McT if Fred is tired) against teams that sit deep and McT and Fred against the teams who attack us with intent.

I also believe that if we have proper wide players (which may well be very soon with Pellistri and Dialo), Ole will try a 4-3-3 and Donny will be part of that midfield three, alongside Fred and Bruno.
 
romufc said:
I agree that he should be given time and you pick and chose the matches. Most home matches it could work, playing teams that sit back away from home like Burnley could work.

We have given Martial and Pogba time, it cost Jose his job.

Unfortunately, Ole is in a position where alot of fans are stern Ole out, they will not see logic in anything he does, only pick holes in everything he does.

Which is why I get he is cautious with Donny.
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Donny can be what Pogba was meant to be in the double pivot. The press resistant midfielder that transitions the play from midfield to. The extra creativity and goal threat against low blocks. I think a Bruno Fred and Vdb midfield can very much be balanced and efficient instead of vulnerable like how it was against Istanbul. The problem is the team doesn't know how to press collectively.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Donny can be what Pogba was meant to be in the double pivot. The press resistant midfielder that transitions the play from midfield to. The extra creativity and goal threat against low blocks. I think a Bruno Fred and Vdb midfield can very much be balanced and efficient instead of vulnerable like how it was against Istanbul. The problem is the team doesn't know how to press collectively.
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Yep, I agree, players get drawn to the ball and leave their man. Its all about making sure we cut off passing lanes and push teams wide, at the moment 3/4 passes and you can get at our defence.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Donny can be what Pogba was meant to be in the double pivot. The press resistant midfielder that transitions the play from midfield to. The extra creativity and goal threat against low blocks. I think a Bruno Fred and Vdb midfield can very much be balanced and efficient instead of vulnerable like how it was against Istanbul. The problem is the team doesn't know how to press collectively.
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I'm not sure we will ever press with Maguire and Lindelof as our CB's unfortunately.

Anyway DVB was doing fine, the issue was it was 2 v 3 most the time as once Fernandes went off and Martial went central he became more of a striker and stopped helping out with the defending.

Obviously he isn't a natural defender but he made plenty of tackles and interceptions, the main thing is he keeps working hard. On the ball he was great.
 
georgipep said:
Mason, for me, is nowhere near ready to play as a our striker in any game other than Carabao Cup against lower league teams. If anyone should take Martial's place, it must be Cavani.

As for Donny, while I see your point, keep in mind that getting at least 30 minutes each game implies he is subbed on. With 3 subs only you can't really 'reserve' one for any player. I think Ole will use Donny and Fred (or McT if Fred is tired) against teams that sit deep and McT and Fred against the teams who attack us with intent.

I also believe that if we have proper wide players (which may well be very soon with Pellistri and Dialo), Ole will try a 4-3-3 and Donny will be part of that midfield three, alongside Fred and Bruno.
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Not a thread about Mason but I absolutely disagree. Give Mason the same amount of minutes Martial always gets and he will score more. He is just a much more natural finisher and isnt that a forwards main job, to score.
Cavani works for me too. Cavani and Mason, move Martial to the left for the time being, Rashford to the right.

Anyway silver lining in all of this, we do have great depth now and that will allow us both to keep our players fresh and go through the gruelling schedule all while experimenting and finding out our best team.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Donny can be what Pogba was meant to be in the double pivot. The press resistant midfielder that transitions the play from midfield to. The extra creativity and goal threat against low blocks. I think a Bruno Fred and Vdb midfield can very much be balanced and efficient instead of vulnerable like how it was against Istanbul. The problem is the team doesn't know how to press collectively.
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Absolutely agree.
VDB is far more press resistant than Pogba and more disciplined, harder working defensively. Better work rate.
Should be a no brainer to pick him over Pogba.
Again I dont want him in all games, not yet. PSG, forget about it but games like yes even Southampton, not just the likes of Burnley, I do want VDB to start.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Sometimes the best way of defending is making sure you do not give the ball away needlessly.
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Absolutely. I think it's something Fred and Mctominay need to get better at. Great teams have players that work hard and are technically consistent.
 
We've got Donny, du du du du du du, ohhh, Rashy, Rashy :lol::lol::lol:

We are a better side with him in the starting 11 imo 100%
 
What Donny gets that Pogba doesnt is that dwelling on the ball is slowing our attacking play, allowing the opposition to allways be able to organize themself.
 
WR10 said:
I can't get enough of this player. Thank you Ajax.
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Not to put the lad down or write him off in any capacity but what does he offer that makes you feel this way about him?

His movement is decent, link up play and quick passing are all good, never gets caught on the ball etc.

But he’s not a goal threat, he’s not getting assists, his movement isn’t world class or anything. Personally, he feels like a younger Mata but I’m struggling to see where he fits in when we have better players who play in his position.

I’m sure he will come good and will have a solid career but he feels a lot like a player that will do a job rather than improve us.
 
crossy1686 said:
Not to put the lad down or write him off in any capacity but what does he offer that makes you feel this way about him?

His movement is decent, link up play and quick passing are all good, never gets caught on the ball etc.

But he’s not a goal threat, he’s not getting assists, his movement isn’t world class or anything. Personally, he feels like a younger Mata but I’m struggling to see where he fits in when we have better players who play in his position.

I’m sure he will come good and will have a solid career but he feels a lot like a player that will do a job rather than improve us.
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Not the poster you replied to but, I'm not blown away by him yet but I like how quickly he likes to move the ball on, never gets caught dwadling and I do think his general movement is intelligent. I'll give him a year before making any cast iron decisions, we've not really seen that much of him yet.
 
AltiUn said:
Not the poster you replied to but, I'm not blown away by him yet but I like how quickly he likes to move the ball on, never gets caught dwadling and I do think his general movement is intelligent. I'll give him a year before making any cast iron decisions, we've not really seen that much of him yet.
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Yeah and I completely agree with what you’ve said here. It feels a bit like “new toy” syndrome for some in here though. He’s our saviour right now but one poor performance and he’ll be shit again and Ole doesn’t fancy him anymore.

It will be interesting to see where he fits in moving forward but I’ll give him this season and next season before I feel confident saying he’s got what it takes or not.
 
crossy1686 said:
Not to put the lad down or write him off in any capacity but what does he offer that makes you feel this way about him?

His movement is decent, link up play and quick passing are all good, never gets caught on the ball etc.

But he’s not a goal threat, he’s not getting assists, his movement isn’t world class or anything. Personally, he feels like a younger Mata but I’m struggling to see where he fits in when we have better players who play in his position.

I’m sure he will come good and will have a solid career but he feels a lot like a player that will do a job rather than improve us.
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His movement is generally excellent and he tends to be good for a decent chunk of goals per year. But its the sort of midfield play that helps everyone else and you need in your team. We can't have a team of individuals. We need a mix of some players like Rashford and Bruno who can be individuals, and some like VdB who are excellent team players and elevate the level of those around him. His quick thinking, technique and passing will help us move the ball around and get it to players in better positions, more frequently and quicker than before. Thats what you want from your deeper midfielders. I don't want someone like Pogba in midfield who sits on the ball and takes 5 touches because he's scanning the field for a killer/highlight pass, and ends up losing it or giving it away a lot of the time. It slows everything down and everyone plays worse. Having players who can play it quickly and want to up the tempo only helps everyone else.
 
City managed to play KDB and Silva at their peak. Granted they had Kompany and Laporte but playing with two holding midfielders at home against West Brom is shameful. We need a bolder approach at home against bottom half teams.
 
I believe I am one of the most insightful fan on this forum and here's why.

1. I always said Fred would be a better player than Herrera after watching him and McT together
2. I always said buying Pogba would be a huge mistake and been proven right (I knew he wasn't mobile enough (lateral mobility) for the premier league).
3. Sticking with Martial and Shaw hoping they'd come good has held us back over 5yrs now.
4. It should be a United Principle never to buy a player who at a minimum cannot adequately pass the ball and is intelligent (this simple rule would have saved us from buying Fred, Pogba, AWB, Lukaku, etc. Players who aren't too bad but pretty bad buys relative to price.


The solution for Sundays game is to start with Fred and McT in midfield and bring VDB in the 60th minute for McT when Soton run out of steam a little bit. They had absolutely wolves on the back-foot till they tired in the second half due to their relentless running.

But Ole being Ole he will play Fred and McT for 80 minutes.
 
I fear for him a little, because I feel like he's always one bad United run away from 'but what does VdB actually do" the instant we get some dodgy results.
I do like him, but very little in the way of big Hollywood passes, or massive tackles, just a lot of nice neat moments in the games he's played so far. Hope he carries on the way he's started
 
CaptainBirdseye said:
I fear for him a little, because I feel like he's always one bad United run away from 'but what does VdB actually do" the instant we get some dodgy results.
I do like him, but very little in the way of big Hollywood passes, or massive tackles, just a lot of nice neat moments in the games he's played so far. Hope he carries on the way he's started
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Why does he need hollywood passes or massive tackles?

He could hit a 30 yard pass when needed but he's been brought up on playing quick 1 touch passes which we saw in the first half, i'd much rather that than a billy big bollocks smash across the pitch.
 
Oh and btw where is the "we didn't need him!" crowd ? :)
 
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