Who is James? Rodriguez?
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Thats interesting that you have seen that, we really don’t need him playing as a false 9 if we have martial up top as I feel martial has improved so much with his back to goal.
Yea, I’m not really judging him off this game tbh, it’s a tough one. Just in general never really seen the top level class, but as others have said, as a squad player, he could of course be useful. When his signing was confirmed, I jokingly referred to him as the offensive version of McTominay. Of course, can be a good player and useful, but not that Ajax stamp of class IMO.
You just knew Donny would get hammered if he failed to score a hat trick tonight 
I see similarities personally. Both got good numbers from midfield at Ajax, but neither showed that class of say a Ziyech for example. I agree that the others have been bought as starters, although Ziyech may well very much be part of a rotation there. He cost less than VDB and I’d have preferred him personally. I’d have also taken David Brooks instead, but goes without saying, we all hope for the best. I just won’t pretend I’ve always rated him just because he joined us. But of course, I ‘like’ him a lot more now!
Yep, made no secret I’m a fan of him, and feel his quality is massively underrated. For £20m, you wouldn’t get a better back up #10, and if he settled well and played his best football, he wouldn’t even be a back up to Bruno anyway in my opinion.
Really not sure what people are expecting tbh.
he nearly scored before he was subbed - fantastic save by donnarumma.
he was playing higher up the pitch getting close to Memphis, but it’s been a very equal game, nobody has stood out as excellent.
anyway since when has international form been the decider of a good player? wait and see what ole gets out of him.
he nearly scored before he was subbed - fantastic save by donnarumma.
he was playing higher up the pitch getting close to Memphis, but it’s been a very equal game, nobody has stood out as excellent.
anyway since when has international form been the decider of a good player? wait and see what ole gets out of him.
I thought that, just getting into the game and he took him off. They don't look any better for it either.
The Klaasen comparison is lazy. Regular Ajax watchers say there is a gulf in quality between them.
I mean... he had the least amount of touches on the pitch and just 6 passes in the game... Didn't watch, but thats way too invisible regardless.You just knew Donny would get hammered if he failed to score a hat trick tonight
Anyway I hope we use him deeper where he first broke through, and not as a 10. Need him as a box to box or deeper mid where he is also very good, and that versatility is why he was an attractive option.
Bruno is a few levels above him. He’s arguably our best player now.
I watched the first half and he was poor, but the whole Netherlands team was shit. Not much to read into a single game IMO.
Italy had a lot more possession at times. He barely got a chance to see the ball, nevermind pass it. Also commentator just said it was three Dutch wins in 21 against the Italians. They just seem to know how to stop them playing and have done for a long time.
I like Van de Beek but thats a lame excuse IMO. He had less touches than either goalkeeper, and he's part of a midfield grouping. Only 6 passes. He's not a lone 9 in a game you're being dominated, its a midfielders responsibility to get involved, regardless of the role he's asked.
I disagree, but it’s a valid view. I mean, his career is in a better place, but having watched both over a length of time, I think James is more talented, and has had periods of showing it regularly and others where he hasn’t. But the career choices he’s made are a lot harder to thrive in. Madrid will replace you just because, for example.
Of course, it’s a conversation for another thread and another time, but I don’t see what Bruno can do better than him. James is a better passer (by quite a bit, I’d say) and a better finisher to me. That said, I don’t expect much from him at Everton. There’s something about that club. Them and West Ham. They can sign as many good players as they want, I expect all of them to go and perform significantly below their best. The clubs have lost their souls I feel, players just turn up for a cheque. For those who place emphasis on sheer numbers though, James has had impressive ones throughout his career. He’s a little similar to Ozil of a few years ago, in terms of the importance of the distinction of what he ‘can’ do and what he ‘does’ do.
It's the hair.
Right now James is a level below Bruno so I am not sure what you are even arguing. If James was that good he wouldn't have signed for Everton.
These international nation league matches are so boring. Roberto Mancini isn't aging so well
Too many people apply formula and narrative to football opinion. I guess it is understandable, as people don’t have time to watch more than a clip here and there, so require pre-packaged opinions like the one you just provided. ‘Why do Real want to sell Reguilón?’, ‘how come Coutinho is on loan then?’ ‘Why did Barcelona let Arthur go if he was good?’.
Did Bruno just become a level above James the other day? Because I could use formula and ask you ‘why was he playing in Portugal at 25 if he was a level above James?’. And if, indeed, your opinion is based on you having objectively watched both players and formed an opinion (which it probably isn’t), what do you think Bruno does better than James, out of curiosity?
The comparison comes from him als being a scoring midfielder, but mostly it's the blonde Dutch farmer look I'd say. Vd Beek is much better.
Didn't impress today. We might need him to perform straight away for us, but I would start him on the bench.
Matic, Fred, Bruno midfield if covid takes away Pogba.
Matic, Fred, Bruno midfield if covid takes away Pogba.
I'm glad we went no where near him. Would be in crazy wages, wrong kind of personality for the squad and most likely no where near the profile of player the manager is after. Maybe he will work out with ancelotti a manager that knows him, but I see that as a poor signing for us.
Don't think he's interested in being anyone's back up #10, hence his move.
I mean, that's such a flawed way of looking at footballers. Van Dijk is by a distance the best center back in the world, yet at 26/27 was at only Southampton. Bruno showed top level form for 2 years in Portugal but teams are always hesitant due to adaptation and costs involved in transfers these days. Its not very useful to look at more than the previous season or 2 when judging players these days because of how quickly form can change. James Rodriguez basically just had a season where he wasn't involved at all. The season before that was a squad player at Bayern on loan. Its been years since he's shown any sort of top class form or creativity or production, or top level performances. He has little games here and there and some moments but very much few and far between.
Bruno on the other hand has completely revamped us, after being a one man show at Sporting for 2 years and by many accounts, the best player that league has seen since Deco at Porto (in terms of current ability while playing in that league). I get it, you don't like that his pass accuracy is lower 70%, but that sort of carelessness is the difference between him reaching the absolute top level of attacking mids where De Bruyne is alone, and being on a tier with a few others who are absolutely excellent footballers, just a level below De Bruyne. Nothing wrong with that.
Anyway, we'll see next season, but I suspect you'll have a change of heart for what you think is unsustainable production when he continues to be our key player for the entire season.
That’s true. Although I imagine Ancelotti is the main reason he’s at Everton. And we didn’t move for him anyway I guess, but if we did, I’d have liked to think he would back himself to win a starting spot. He’s got pedigree and could fight it out with Bruno for sure. I do fear for him at Everton though. The club looks lost to me.
Well...https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article13172600.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2_PAY-Roberto-Mancini-Silvia-Fortini-enjoying-the-day-at-Club-55-in-Saint-Tropez.jpg
I’m mot saying it is perfect logic. I’m saying it isn’t, but if we were to apply formula to football opinions like the one I responded to, then I could just as easily say the same.
And yes, they have had different last couple of seasons. But they were operating in very different ponds. Bruno was excelling in Portugal, just as James had done at 20 years old, while James was a Real Madrid player, or a Bayern player on loan.
Bruno is a great player in his own right, and I didn’t really mean to drag this out. But all that ‘transformed our team’ stuff is nice, but those are largely these intangible metrics for assessing football players. By the generic metrics, he hasn’t shown he’s a better passer than James. Maybe his energy and personality were needed in the team. People said that about McTominay at a point this season. But in the nuts and bolts of football, he has leas quality than James Rodríguez.
Bruno has been a God send for us, and I think he’ll be better next season. He fits the club, and the club fits him. But similarly to how say, Eric Cantona meant more to us than he meant to football in general, I think there’s a bit of that. Of course, Cantona was a great player. And within the context of United, even greater. But there have just been better footballers, some with less personality and charisma, but those are intangibles and skewed metrics.
Ultimately, I think James at £20m is below what his quality demands, and I’d have considered him as a back up 10 at that price. We didn’t go for him, it’s fine, was just a passing comment, as he cost half of
What VDB cost. I do feel some of the views on him have been lazily formed. He made the BuLi team of the season at Bayern, and his record speaks for itself. Madrid get rid of players who are quality all the time. I wouldn’t be judging a player based on these things, I’s be asking myself what his talent is like, does he still have it to offer, and is he still motivated enough to deliver. I don’t know what those answers are regarding James. But I think there’s a lazily generalisation that players don’t have any hunger or don’t want it anymore if they leave Real or Barca. Di Maria is happy in Paris and is showing world class form for them. Bayern was just a loan move, and even then, he was a 1 in 3 scorer in his time there.You say it’s been years since he’s been productive, but I think it’s more a case of years since he was the coolest kid around. His record speaks for itself. I personally would have taken a punt on him at the price, and I know the quality he has, so I find it hard to think if it had happened he’d have necessarily been condemned to being behind Bruno. He may not push himself, but I think he has more quality, so it’s within him to win that battle. VDB doesn’t have the quality to replace Bruno even at his very best for me.
Again, think the convo has run away a bit. Next time I’ll ensure my thread posts follow topic to the letter as this is quote a tangent now.
What does Bruno does better than James, well for starters he plays regularly at the top level at the present moment while James hardly played this season. Now if you are basing on James from 2014 to 2017 then maybe yes that can be argued but I don't know how you with straight face say you see had james joined us he would have outperformed Bruno without any base. It's like saying let us buy bale instead if sancho because he will topple him because he was amazing some years back. Football doesn't work like that buddy.
Now if your argument is I would have preferred james instead of van de beek then maybe that can be debated with a straight face but to come and say James would be a better option than Bruno or may have outperformed Bruno had he joined us has no base to it. How about you put both james and Bruno in the market right now , I bet all the top clubs would have Bruno (if you take the cost thing out of the way). Even Ancelotti the manager you seem to rate so much and are using to shat on our players will also choose bruno ahead of james. Again that doesn't mean james is a bad footballer but at the present moment bruno is outperforming James in all the department.
Also, if you want to continue this debate then I would say let us take it the James to everton thread.
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You admitted you didn’t watch a kick yet still critique his performance, while calling somebodies opinion ( who watched the game) lame- classic caf.
I can imagine it's difficult being the playmaker behind a relatively underwhelming dutch attack. I'm sure we'll see a lot more De Beek's qualities when he's linking up with our delicious front line.
He should compliment Martial really well. He dovetailed excellently with Tadic, and will take up positions and make runs based on how and where Martial looks to receive the ball. 'Second striker' or 'false no.10' would be better words to describe him.
What Bruno does better than James is simply the fact that he trains like a professionnal football player. It's well known that James parties a lot and was the worst player at practice both at Real Madrid and Bayern, and that's why he was sold. And he was sold to Everton because the only coach that managed to make him work a bit was Ancelotti at Real Madrid. James is probably more talented than Bruno but it's not enough, he's just not professionnal.
As for VdB, I still don't understand how he'll fit into th team as a starter so he'll probably be a sub, which is an odd carreer move for him because he could have caught a starter spot in a lot of clubs last year. He had an average season before COVID.
I didn't watch the match, but wasn't the Dutch league suspended for a much longer time than the EPL? This is probably his first competive game in months.
You don't need to have watch the game to know that 6 passes for a midfielder and also the least amount of touches on the field (including both goalkeepers) is never going to be enough. He has it in him to be far more than that, making any sort of excuses is just sugar coating it as you can play poorly, but you have to get involved.
I haven’t watched him apart from YouTube compilation videos. Which player would the DvB fans/experts compare him to?
I get Bilbao Ander Herrera vibes from him, seems like he can do a bit of everything. Of course he has the benefit of being brought in Ajax, so technique, off-the-ball movement and quick passing should be way above average. If he is similar to Herrera, then I’m glad we don’t have LvG or Mourinho here to mess with his playing style.
I get Bilbao Ander Herrera vibes from him, seems like he can do a bit of everything. Of course he has the benefit of being brought in Ajax, so technique, off-the-ball movement and quick passing should be way above average. If he is similar to Herrera, then I’m glad we don’t have LvG or Mourinho here to mess with his playing style.
Heard he just had a very poor game... and he is our only buy this summer... not looking good
Seems like he did most of what he normally does, won the ball a bunch, good movement for the team off the ball... He only had 6 passes in 56 minutes so obviously he had trouble actually getting the ball in the positions he was getting into. The Netherlands as a whole were clearly dominated by Italy's system with Italy's midfield way on top
He was signed to give us his goals or assists because his speciality is to find space and make run in the box, more like Lingard. He’s not playmaker. He needs good services and players who can find him when he’s making run which something he will get by playing with Pogba & Bruno not with Wijnaldum. Don’t worry, Ole got this.
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