[KirkDuyt]

Let me derail the thread a little. What do you think of Kudus Mohammed ? I being Ghanaian am a bit biased towards him but I feel he’s a much more dominant and technically gifted midfielder than Donny albeit not ready yet for the big stage.

I think his style of play is more of what we’re looking for in Donny. He has potential to be a starter in a bigger team if he can get over his injuries and be more consistent.

Also more talented than Donny, but haven't seen much of him since he's been out injured a lot. I also have to admit, I don't watch Ajax outside of the CL / EL a lot. Seeing them trounce opposition week after week while my beloved Feyenoord stumbles about is too painful

 

[BlackBen]

Also more talented than Donny, but haven't seen much of him since he's been out injured a lot. I also have to admit, I don't watch Ajax outside of the CL / EL a lot. Seeing them trounce opposition week after week while my beloved Feyenoord stumbles about is too painful

Thanks for your reply. Hopefully Feyenoord returns to it’s glory days soon.

 

[theklr]

this is mainly down to sharpness + fitness. Players who aren't playing regularly won't be at their peak athleticism.

While he's obviously not going to be a "quick" player, he never had this issue in the CL against the likes of Juventus, Real Madrid and Tottenham.

The proof is there that he CAN operate at that level, so what is the difference?. Let's not act like he was supposed to be dominating this match single handedly either, Ndidi and Tielemans are 2 of the best CM's in the league.

Just like Fred, he's obviously taking time to adjust to the pace of the league. In the PL teams shut you down ASAP and don't give you time to dwell on the ball, other leagues retain shape and make you pass through them but it gives you more time to think.

Before we become too judgemental we need to give him a chance to have a break, hit it again next year and see if he can come back fighting. I know he is a very good player, but will he be able to handle the speed? that's the question.

He had a perfectly fine first half but people here can't seem to acknowledge that either.

Fred had the benefit of getting alot of game time because we more or less had noone else to use there.

VDB wont have that luxury, and without enough game time its much harder yeah.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I thought he was decent last night without really standing out. Felt like he was let down a bit by the way Matic was playing the game. Seemed to focus more on being a CB which left Donny few options to work with and Mata wasn’t much better.
The passing out from the defence was horrendous to him as well. When he did get on the ball he was trying to slot some nice passes through, he Certainly doesnt take as many risks as say Bruno but when there was something there he was trying to slot it through. He’s a lot more measured in his approach.

2nd half felt like he became more cautious but I’d be intrested to see what he could do with someone with energy like a Fred in there with him.

Wasn‘t mind blowing but certainly a performance that shows maybe he can do a job somewhere but doubt he will be a starting 11 player unless we have an injury crisis.

 

[SoCross]

Was disappointing last night.

He was brought in as backup for Bruno and with the capability to fill in as a 8 but the game seems to be moving just a tad too fast for him. Hopefully he will adjust. Out of interest, does anyone know how many times he has played with our regulars? McFred, Rashford, Bruno, Cavani....I can only recall him playing with the second string.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Is the fact he performed during a handful of CL games "proof" he is going to be a good player for us or even at this level? History is littered with players that had a good tournament, a good world cup, a good anything. I would say it is only proof that he was a good player for Ajax for that period (and possibly for his entire Ajax career - few except Dutch fans would probably know)

A handful of appearances even if they are at an impressive level are scant proof of anything when the reality is he needs to be good enough week in week out for Man Utd.

It's proof that he can and has played to a higher level.

Is it proof that he can survive long term in the premier league? obviously not - but he needs more than 1 game every month to prove that. It'll come to the point where he either plays regularly and is or isn't good enough, or he doesn't play enough and wants to leave to continue his career.

For me he has all the technical and mental foundations to be a great footballer, but does he have the physical capabilities and the self confidence to adapt and thrive.

Fred had the benefit of getting alot of game time because we more or less had noone else to use there.

VDB wont have that luxury, and without enough game time its much harder yeah.

That is true, but injuries do happen. Ole needs to have confidence in him though and give him a chance. IF say Matic leaves this year, and then Fred or Mctominay gets injured, he needs to put Donny into CM instead of pushing Pogba back. Only once he gets a run of games can we truly say he's just not going to cut it.

If we look at his first half performance he did a fine job, 1 or 2 little mistakes but nothing for people to shout "awful, sell!".

2nd half the whole team suffered, clearly the gas ran out of the whole front 4 and we got penned in. That isn't his fault alone but people look at him in a isolated situation and say he didn't do enough?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It's proof that he can and has played to a higher level.

Is it proof that he can survive long term in the premier league? obviously not - but he needs more than 1 game every month to prove that. It'll come to the point where he either plays regularly and is or isn't good enough, or he doesn't play enough and wants to leave to continue his career.

For me he has all the technical and mental foundations to be a great footballer, but does he have the physical capabilities and the self confidence to adapt and thrive.

does he have the mental foundations? What does that even mean?

 

[Adam-Utd]

does he have the mental foundations? What does that even mean?

Reads the game, quick thinker, good decision making on his passes.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Reads the game, quick thinker, good decision making on his passes.

I’ve not seen any of that.

 

[sillwuka]

I feel there's only 2 positions that Donny will ever be effective in - the 10 and false 9 role if we ever use it.

Ole tried him deeper last night but has most likely realised that he will never be a great option there or even out wide.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I’ve not seen any of that.

Watch a bit more then. He's great at 1 touch passing, links up well in tight areas.

Last night in the first half there was plenty of instances where he showed he's plenty capable in those situations.

Did you not watch the Red bull game either?

I feel there's only 2 positions that Donny will ever be effective in - the 10 and false 9 role if we ever use it.

Ole tried him deeper last night but has most likely realised that he will never be a great option there or even out wide.

Why don't you think CM is an option? he's way more involved in the game than as a 10.

 

[Abraxas]

It's proof that he can and has played to a higher level.

Is it proof that he can survive long term in the premier league? obviously not - but he needs more than 1 game every month to prove that. It'll come to the point where he either plays regularly and is or isn't good enough, or he doesn't play enough and wants to leave to continue his career.

For me he has all the technical and mental foundations to be a great footballer, but does he have the physical capabilities and the self confidence to adapt and thrive.

It's proof he played some good games for Ajax in the CL but I don't see how much more can be read into it from such a limited sample. It's not as if he's done it year on year in a strong league or the CL, or been terrific for his country. It seems like we constantly harp back to a few particular outings whereas Ajax fans that actually watched him are somewhat realistic in stating that he was a good player but hardly a fantastic talent for them and that is over the course of seasons not games.

There is better evidence that he's not the best player in this particular league and perhaps by extension it could also be argued he may not be up to it at a top club. However, I would probably stop short of saying this because once again - it is only one season and we can pray for something better next, but actually that evidence is growing through the sheer weight of how bad these performances are.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Thanks for your reply. Hopefully Feyenoord returns to it’s glory days soon.

Hehe, thanks, but I'm not holding my breath. Disappointment is part of the charm of being a Feyenoorder though.

 

[Terranova]

Send him back to Ajax while they still rate him.

I'd happily take him back as an Ajax fan. When used in the right way(which Ajax always will) he'll be great again.
Same as Klaassen who's back at the same level he was when he left(well actually better because Ajax as a whole made progress).

If not, just buy Ziyech and the right wing problem is solved and Donny will play a lot better.

 

[kundalini]

In the entire game he did this impression of wanting the ball with gestures from hands etc., but the whole time he would be hiding behind opposition players and rarely presenting a real passing option for his team mates. In the rare times when he did get the ball, it promptly went back or sideways. It was a terrible 1/10 performance as far as I am concerned. Anyone has got stats on number of touches, passes by him? The entire game seemed to pass him by.

He did make a few clean tackles which surprised me to be fair. Maybe that's something to build upon.

Donny completed 37 out of 43 passes. To give some context, Mata completed 40/49, Matic 75/85. Touches (which Opta means occasions a player had the ball, rather than actual touches) Donny 58, Mata 55, Matic 102.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Watch a bit more then. He's great at 1 touch passing, links up well in tight areas.

Last night in the first half there was plenty of instances where he showed he's plenty capable in those situations.

Did you not watch the Red bull game either?



Why don't you think CM is an option? he's way more involved in the game than as a 10.

I’ve watched every game he played for us. He’s a distinctly average player.

i think we are clutching at straws to say he has these mental foundations.

clearly he’s not a League 1 player, so obviously he can play. But seen nothing in any aspect of his game to suggest he can do it at the level we need.

with a player who is struggling, you hope to be able to see standout aspects of his play. Everything I see of him is average.

he’s done for this season. Hopefully he can somehow turn it around over the summer and get to grips with the speed and intensity needed to play at this level.

 

[MattyB1986]

Been saying it for a while, he's a Kagawa type signing. Won't last long here, just doesn't blend to our team.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I'd happily take him back as an Ajax fan. When used in the right way(which Ajax always will) he'll be great again.
Same as Klaassen who's back at the same level he was when he left(well actually better because Ajax as a whole made progress).

If not, just buy Ziyech and the right wing problem is solved and Donny will play a lot better.

He can bully people as the 10 in the dutch league. He can't do that in England and thats why looks like a deer caught in headlights every time he plays.

 

[HJ12]

Been saying it for a while, he's a Kagawa type signing. Won't last long here, just doesn't blend to our team.

This is a disservice to Kagawa. Would take him over DVB any day.

 

[UnitedFan93]

I'd happily take him back as an Ajax fan. When used in the right way(which Ajax always will) he'll be great again.
Same as Klaassen who's back at the same level he was when he left(well actually better because Ajax as a whole made progress).

If not, just buy Ziyech and the right wing problem is solved and Donny will play a lot better.

Please take him, absolutely pointless player.

United have signed plenty of duds over the years but at least they tried and took risks.

 

[Bebestation]

Rashford --- Greenwood
VDB
Pogba - Bruno
Rice
Shaw- Torres - Maguire - Wan Bissaka
​

Part of me believes we will see this and personally I wont give up on him just yet until he may get the chance to do so.

VDB will be our Firmino in our squad in my opinion.

@Terranova do you reckon this may be one of our tactics next season ie - plan b to Cavani starting?

 

[CG1010]

Donny completed 37 out of 43 passes. To give some context, Mata completed 40/49, Matic 75/85. Touches (which Opta means occasions a player had the ball, rather than actual touches) Donny 58, Mata 55, Matic 102.

Thanks a lot..!! there you go. VDB had as much 'participation' in our game than Mata who was playing much further ahead and himself had a poor performance.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Thanks a lot..!! there you go. VDB had as much 'participation' in our game than Mata who was playing much further ahead and himself had a poor performance.

You guys realise why Matic had so many touches and the rest of our attack didn't right?

Passing it around the back 3 isn't a sign of a good or better performance. Most of the time it was VDB standing in midfield alone surrounded by Ndidi and Tielemans ready to pounce

 

[phenry]

What would you think of shipping him out on loan and bringing Lingard back for a season (with a new contract) while we give other clubs finances a chance to recover so we can get a good fee for him

 

[Abraxas]

Rashford --- Greenwood
VDB
Pogba - Bruno
Rice
Shaw- Torres - Maguire - Wan Bissaka
​

Part of me believes we will see this and personally I wont give up on him just yet until he may get the chance to do so.

VDB will be our Firmino in our squad in my opinion.

@Terranova do you reckon this may be one of our tactics next season ie - plan b to Cavani starting?

That looks pretty horrible to me. But then again I've never been a fan of these narrow formations so maybe I have an element of bias against it. I just don't see how you do not struggle for width and also defending those areas, all the quality is packed into small areas of the pitch and while they're supposed to offer some width from midfield and allow the full back acres it rarely seems to be a good idea. Good for the odd game as a specific application but over a season - it's hard to imagine. Also Rashford and Greenwood both in a position that hasn't been where we have seen them having success looks strange.

 

[CG1010]

You guys realise why Matic had so many touches and the rest of our attack didn't right?

Passing it around the back 3 isn't a sign of a good or better performance. Most of the time it was VDB standing in midfield alone surrounded by Ndidi and Tielemans ready to pounce

VDB wasn't in an attacking position though, he was playing a double pivot. He really should be getting involved in play more often especially in that position. The reason he seemed to be marked out was because he was either not moving or if he was moving he was cowering behind opposition player.

 

[Bebestation]

That looks pretty horrible to me. But then again I've never been a fan of these narrow formations so maybe I have an element of bias against it. I just don't see how you do not struggle for width and also defending those areas, all the quality is packed into small areas of the pitch and while they're supposed to offer some width from midfield and allow the full back acres it rarely seems to be a good idea. Good for the odd game as a specific application but over a season - it's hard to imagine. Also Rashford and Greenwood both in a position that hasn't been where we have seen them having success looks strange.

Its not really narrow its Rashford and Greenwood as inverted forwards/wingers like Mane and Salah and VDB as a False 9 Shadow Striker like Firmino.

 

[Sting]

Don't know if it has been mentioned yet but there was a point in the first half where Bailly had the ball looking for options, and VDB moved across his path and blocked a pass to Williams. Just seems as though he has no awareness or ability to demand the ball yet. Hopefully just his settling in period and will come back after pre-season firing and contributing.

He was searching for Leicester players for cover and the ball accidentally hit him

 

[acnumber9]

If not, just buy Ziyech and the right wing problem is solved and Donny will play a lot better.

We definitely need another Eredivisie flop to improve our situation.

 

[MattyB1986]

This is a disservice to Kagawa. Would take him over DVB any day.

To be honest, you have a point. At least Kagawa showed something. I've seen nothing from DvB - weird signing.

 

[Teja]

VDB wasn't in an attacking position though, he was playing a double pivot. He really should be getting involved in play more often especially in that position. The reason he seemed to be marked out was because he was either not moving or if he was moving he was cowering behind opposition player.

Disagree there. We used different tactics from what we normally use yesterday with Matic almost playing like a 3rd CB. McFred generally play a lot higher up the pitch. He was outnumbered about 3 to 1 during build up.

 

[Bastian]

He's got big question marks over him. I was pretending otherwise for the longest time, but it's hard to deny it. That being said, I think he's started to show more fight and he doesn't shirk from 50/50s but goes all in (or at least against Leicester, small sample size). He will need to add to his game as he's used to a completely different style of play, but surround him with technicians and he looks great (as he did early on in the season in a match where him, Mata and Bruno were linking superbly).

Still think there's a player there, but he needs any of tactics/personnel/adaptation to unlock him.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

To be honest, you have a point. At least Kagawa showed something. I've seen nothing from DvB - weird signing.

Kagawa was very intelligent, he used to create chances and was able to run at defenders, can cross with boot feet and had an eye for a goal, he played the free role (roaming AM/LW) very well, he didn't survive under rigid managers like Moyes & LVG.

 

[Adam-Utd]

VDB wasn't in an attacking position though, he was playing a double pivot. He really should be getting involved in play more often especially in that position. The reason he seemed to be marked out was because he was either not moving or if he was moving he was cowering behind opposition player.

That's just not true. We barely had any possession if you watched the game.

The possession we did have was mostly passing around our defence, then the odd occasion we got it forward into greenwood who managed to dribble it forward.

You can talk about hiding, Matic spent most of the half hiding between the centre backs leaving VDB alone in midfield.

He can't move out of position he's a central midfielder. His job is to receive the ball and build up play, if we can't get the ball to him that's a good job by Leicester.

I'd love for you to go over the match again and show me moments he's "hiding" ?

 

[Foxbatt]

He is not going to make it at United. Not because he is a bad player but he never is going to fit the way this current United play. It was a huge mistake in everyone's side in getting him. He should be sold to another club where he will get a better chance to play the kind of football that Ajax plays.

 

[krentz]

Rashford --- Greenwood
VDB
Pogba - Bruno
Rice
Shaw- Torres - Maguire - Wan Bissaka
​

Part of me believes we will see this and personally I wont give up on him just yet until he may get the chance to do so.

VDB will be our Firmino in our squad in my opinion.

@Terranova do you reckon this may be one of our tactics next season ie - plan b to Cavani starting?

i'm trully sorry but i find the obssesion with VDB is very very weird. here's a player who has shown nothing to suggest that he deserves a spot in our starting IX let alone to relegate our best player away from his best position. VDB needs to completely embracing Ole's brand of football if he wants to turn his united's career. forget the methodological football he learnt from Ajax. LEARN how to be more creative, more be expansive, be more brave to make something out of nothing with the ball at his feet, and be more nonchalant whenever you made a mistake (this something i notice from donny, that hed look extremely uncomfortable after making a mistake), after then we will talk about his spot in the starting XI. He gets one more season to do that, and finger crossed he'll succeed here.

 

[Silas]

That's just not true. We barely had any possession if you watched the game.

The possession we did have was mostly passing around our defence, then the odd occasion we got it forward into greenwood who managed to dribble it forward.

You can talk about hiding, Matic spent most of the half hiding between the centre backs leaving VDB alone in midfield.

He can't move out of position he's a central midfielder. His job is to receive the ball and build up play, if we can't get the ball to him that's a good job by Leicester.

I'd love for you to go over the match again and show me moments he's "hiding" ?

Matic contributed more than VDB in attack and defence. He waltzed through Leicester's midfield multiple times in the first half. Not sure how anyone could say he left VDB on his own.

 

[NK86]

Matic contributed more than VDB in attack and defence. He waltzed through Leicester's midfield multiple times in the first half. Not sure how anyone could say he left VDB on his own.

It is crazy anyone who saw the game would think Matic was worse. First half, he was a third CB and basically our entire midfield. Second half his legs just went away and it's expected considering his age and his lack of match sharpness.

 

[NK86]

Disagree there. We used different tactics from what we normally use yesterday with Matic almost playing like a 3rd CB. McFred generally play a lot higher up the pitch. He was outnumbered about 3 to 1 during build up.

No. Fred plays deeper all the time during our build up if you ever notice. It's just that Matic doesn't have the energy of Fred to keep bombing forward.
Our set up was the same, the players were not first team quality - that was the difference.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Matic contributed more than VDB in attack and defence. He waltzed through Leicester's midfield multiple times in the first half. Not sure how anyone could say he left VDB on his own.

It is crazy anyone who saw the game would think Matic was worse. First half, he was a third CB and basically our entire midfield. Second half his legs just went away and it's expected considering his age and his lack of match sharpness.

who said he was worse? he did a few nice things in the first half just like VDB did.

2nd half he got tired and sat in the back 3 and barely moved an inch. The team got over ran.

It's not really suprising though is it? we played a midfield of Matic/VDB and Mata who probably have 300 minutes between them this season, it was always going to happen.

People on here expect them to be matching a hungry full strength Leicester side