[KirkDuyt]

I think you can add De Ligt to that list of Ajax players not quite living up to the hype after their sensational run in the CL. I actually warned about it when we were linked to De Ligt. They had such momentum playing for Ajax that season and were over performing, just like Leicester when they won the league. And how many of the Leicester players went on to become world stars?

Isn't De Ligt doing rather well? Last season he made all those handballs, but he's a regular starter. Ziyech gets a bit of playing time under Tuchel but is clearly not a starter and Donny hardly plays at all. De Ligt also has the added benefit of being a lot younger.

He's on a ridiculous wage though.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Fred was never this worthless when he played. This guy has no identity. He is literally just here to make up the numbers.
Play him as the 10 and he produces nothing. Play him in the middle and still nothing.

Fair enough, I thought Fred was quite worthless. Till this day he sometimes looks to me as a player that has never watched a football game in his life and is playing football on a trampoline, he was all over the place in his first season (negative sense).

He's quite alright now.

 

[UnitedFan93]

Donny van de Meek

 

[Devil may care]

Showed for the ball well and tried to scrap but looked like he was physically struggling in there.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Played pretty well in the first half, I thought. Non existent after half time.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Played pretty well in the first half, I thought. Non existent after half time.

Same.

It was an unforgiving task for pretty much all of the players tonight. They all deserve criticism but I have low expectations for a midfield two with 4 players in front of them that couldn't hold (Amad and Elanga completely understandably but Mata was a complete passenger sad to say) the ball and then a makeshift back 4.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Same.

It was an unforgiving task for pretty much all of the players tonight. They all deserve criticism but I have low expectations for a midfield two with 4 players in front of them that couldn't hold (Amad and Elanga completely understandably but Mata was a complete passenger sad to say) the ball and then a makeshift back 4.

Not just tonight. He’s had terrible conditions to impress all season. Limited appearances and almost all in cobbled together, hugely weakened teams where almost all his team mates are playing crap too. Basically the worst possible scenario for a new player to settle into a new league. Certainly wouldn’t write him off yet. Ole does need to find a way to make life a little easier for him though. It’s been a baptism of fire so far.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Bottom line is he just isn't the versatile midfielder I think the club believed they were getting. He's essentially a support striker (a la Muller) that needs to be higher up the pitch and use his movement and quick touches/layoffs. But obviously that issn't a position we need currently and he's shown he can't play further back in a more structured role. I don't think he's a bad player for what he is, and he could certainly succeed in a different set up, but the fit just isn't right with us and I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved on.

 

[charlenefan]

Massive flop, can see him being shipped out within the next 12 months

 

[Bebestation]

Bottom line is he just isn't the versatile midfielder I think the club believed they were getting. He's essentially a support striker (a la Muller) that needs to be higher up the pitch and use his movement and quick touches/layoffs. But obviously that issn't a position we need currently and he's shown he can't play further back in a more structured role. I don't think he's a bad player for what he is, and he could certainly succeed in a different set up, but the fit just isn't right with us and I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved on.

I wonder if that versatility is being built a bit more by Ole maybe?

I see him as a support striker too but Ive only really seen him play that role once here.

I wonder if Ole is making him get more comfortable playing CM, LM, RM CAM before we see the real SS version of VDB in pre season.

 

[cpresc]

I've never seen a player that has so much ability to move himself into positions where a pass isn't on.

Donny Hide and Seek

 

[Member 109952]

He was good in the first half, tried hard passes, tried skills.

Which makes me think there's a player there and it's more a confidence + coaching thing. A couple of months ago he was literally just passing sideways and I thought he was Cleverly reborn.

He's probably not a £40m player but if he keeps trying things I think he'll look better as time goes on.

 

[Leftback99]

I don't know what he brings to the table because he doesn't get involved enough where ever he plays, he just goes missing.

Even when Fred was being written off in his first season you could still see his defensive attributes and energy as positives to build on.

 

[The Purley King]

I've never seen a player that has so much ability to move himself into positions where a pass isn't on.

Donny Hide and Seek

This is exactly his problem. He hides. It’s like he is actively trying to avoid being in a position where he can receive the ball.
Also his first thought is a pass backwards or sideways.
I get that he hasn’t played much but he’s just not good enough imo. Ship him out in the summer please whilst he still has some value.

 

[Scholsey2004]

I dont believe for a second that Solskjaer actually asked for this lad. Feels like a boardroom signing to me driven by a lack of inspiration and knowledge they just went for a player who it had been made abundantly clear was available.

 

[Bebestation]

This is exactly his problem. He hides. It’s like he is actively trying to avoid being in a position where he can receive the ball.
Also his first thought is a pass backwards or sideways.
I get that he hasn’t played much but he’s just not good enough imo. Ship him out in the summer please whilst he still has some value.

This is why he is a shadow striker though that should play as a SS.

The fact that he hides is what is deadly about him but it depends if Ole knows that about VDB and has that in his plans or simply sees him as a CM that plays deep and finds it hard to get in to the rhythm of the game - which then he wont be good enough as a player for us.

 

[tjb]

Same.

It was an unforgiving task for pretty much all of the players tonight. They all deserve criticism but I have low expectations for a midfield two with 4 players in front of them that couldn't hold (Amad and Elanga completely understandably but Mata was a complete passenger sad to say) the ball and then a makeshift back 4.

I agree on Mata, but that's not true. It had nothing to do with Elanga and Amad who constantly kept searching for the ball whilst getting terrible hurried passes from the back 4 and VDB. We could barely build up at all and I get that its easy to blame youngsters, but you could have put Messi out there and neither Matic or VDB would have found him. No excuses for that performance.

 

[Ali Dia]

He’ll be much better next season if he ever gets into our best team for a few games in a row. I reckon he was bought in as Pogbas replacement and if Pogba stays then Donny is only ever going to be a bit part player. If he does nothing next season he’ll be sold I’d say.

 

[Kag]

He’s having a laugh, this lad. Absolutely wank at the minute and the game time excuse doesn’t really cut it when you play as poorly as that.

 

[The Purley King]

This is why he is a shadow striker though that should play as a SS.

The fact that he hides is what is deadly about him but it depends if Ole knows that about VDB and has that in his plans or simply sees him as a CM that plays deep and finds it hard to get in to the rhythm of the game - which then he wont be good enough as a player for us.

I’m sorry but that post is bollocks.
He is hiding behind opposition players making it impossible for team mates to pass to him.
That isn’t being ‘deadly’ it’s being scared.

 

[tjb]

I’m sorry but that post is bollocks.
He is hiding behind opposition players making it impossible for team mates to pass to him.
That isn’t being ‘deadly’ it’s being scared.

Silent domination.

 

[Bebestation]

I’m sorry but that post is bollocks.
He is hiding behind opposition players making it impossible for team mates to pass to him.
That isn’t being ‘deadly’ it’s being scared.

VDB is a shadow striker type CAM that defenders dont follow runs off. Today when you saw him in midfield you would have seen him make runs well in to space that out did the opposition but the passes were always backwards.

Thats because he is playing deeper than he should be and he is not a creative player.

I think he is better further up the pitch than he is deeper in it.

Thats why he isnt a CM.

 

[Reditus]

I thought Lindelof and Fred had no chance at making an impact at Utd after their 1st seasons. So who knows, He might come good.

But so far, he is miles off it.

 

[croadyman]

If selling him meant we could get a CDM, CB & RW this summer then I would do it, however if it's likely to mean nothing then think we should give him another season

 

[pratyush_utd]

Not sure what kind of player he is. Has looked ordinary everytime he has played for us. Doesn't seem to have passing range nor tackling ability. For which position did we actually buy him for? Bruno backup?

 

[Aouer-United]

Weak physically, they bullied him off the ball easily. VDB doesn't know how to win foul.

 

[BlahRules]

He will never shine when we don't have midfielder that can retain and pass the ball. He would have done well if we had Carrick or Scholes behind him.

Elenga would have had opportunities if we have players that can pass. The amount of times the ball went sideways is ridiculous.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Not just tonight. He’s had terrible conditions to impress all season. Limited appearances and almost all in cobbled together, hugely weakened teams where almost all his team mates are playing crap too. Basically the worst possible scenario for a new player to settle into a new league. Certainly wouldn’t write him off yet. Ole does need to find a way to make life a little easier for him though. It’s been a baptism of fire so far.

My previous post in this thread was saying how I think VDB can become another productive squad player for us if given the chance ala Herrera/Fred. For me, the quality is there to see, it's just finding the game time, luck and his 'position' in the team on and off the pitch.

I agree on Mata, but that's not true. It had nothing to do with Elanga and Amad who constantly kept searching for the ball whilst getting terrible hurried passes from the back 4 and VDB. We could barely build up at all and I get that its easy to blame youngsters, but you could have put Messi out there and neither Matic or VDB would have found him. No excuses for that performance.

I didn't absolve him of all responsibility, afterall the post I agreed with said he was non existant in the second half. I just think it was a thankless job in midfield for him. To be fair to him and the rest of the players, even with our first team, we consistently struggle against Leicester because Rogers coaches them really well to press and to double team around the pitch. I agree about no excuses but then I'd say the same thing that Busquets or Xavi wouldn't be able to control the midfield tonight if you had the same other 10. We gave a decent game and fight in the first half but the lack of experience/team balance showed in the second.

 

[Green_Red]

There's a very good footballer in there for sure. Box to box too if given then reign to perform that role. He probably needs to recycle the ball more, rather than trying to keep it in tight areas but that will come with time. I can see why Ole is holding him back a bit, he still has learning to do but he will be a very good midfielder in another season or two. Probably best deployed in 8/10 type of role. He needs time and some more games but he is a good player to have in our squad. Doesn't deserve the negativity some are showing him.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Which games in your opinion has Gravenbergh shown a level above what Vd Beek did against Bayern, Real, Juve and Spurs in that CL campaign?

I agree Ziyech is good enough for Chelsea, mind. And the buying all those midfielders thing was in jest

All of them. I don't rate Van de Beek at all and never have, even during that run.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He needs to be binned and ASAP.

A nothing player.

 

[Champagne Football]

Fred and Lindelof were both written off as pure garbage after 1 season. Neither has become a superstar but they've become important solid players for us.

A month or two ago and Kai Havertz was being talked of as a flop, but is being talked about as a star in the making now.

Many on here were saying a year ago that Foden, Stones, Rice and Grealish were overhyped English kids, who will result to nothing more than the next Stuart Downing/Jack Rodwell etc.

There's definitely still hope for Donny. Next season will be his last chance to show what he can do though.

 

[Marcus]

I want to know what his instructions were. He was so conservative. If he wasn't playing to instructions, then he has no part in this United team.

 

[r0663664]

He probably needs more playing time to be comfortable with who his is playing, maybe he isn't adaptable. Ole also isn't a coach that has a structure approach, one more season and he will sold off for less than 20 million.

 

[tenpoless]

Maybe we can try him in Fred's role which is a very busy role playing besides Scotty. If he still manages to hide in such a role then I don't know anymore.

 

[Highfather_24]

Thought he was decent.

 

[The United]

Maybe we can try him in Fred's role which is a very busy role playing besides Scotty. If he still manages to hide in such a role then I don't know anymore.

He just does not have a skill set to play in a deeper roll in EPL. It is not that he hides. It is just that he can't do it.

To play in a deeper role, you will have to be press resistance ALONE, physically strong to shield the ball or nimble enough to get out of tight situations, and have good range of passing. And, a whole lot of other defensive abilities.

Have we ever seen any of those abilities from him so far in United? I have not. People compare him with Fred. Fred has always played in a deeper role and possesses most of the abilities. He just could not adapt to the speed of EPL.

How people can say VDB could work in a deeper role is beyond my understanding of football especially we do not even play with a super DM.

And, that does not mean he is useless. He should just be developed to be better at AM/SS. He may never be a first choice here which is no shame with Bruno ahead of him. He does not need to be a first choice. If he is a decent back up or does his job as a sub, it would be acceptable. We are not going to be able to start every player at the same time.

 

[hmchan]

He just does not have a skill set to play in a deeper roll in EPL. It is not that he hides. It is just that he can't do it.

To play in a deeper role, you will have to be press resistance ALONE, physically strong to shield the ball or nimble enough to get out of tight situations, and have good range of passing. And, a whole lot of other defensive abilities.

Have we ever seen any of those abilities from him so far in United? I have not. People compare him with Fred. Fred has always played in a deeper role and possesses most of the abilities. He just could not adapt to the speed of EPL.

How people can say VDB could work in a deeper role is beyond my understanding of football especially we do not even play with a super DM.

And, that does not mean he is useless. He should just be developed to be better at AM/SS. He may never be a first choice here which is no shame with Bruno ahead of him. He does not need to be a first choice. If he is a decent back up or does his job as a sub, it would be acceptable. We are not going to be able to start every player at the same time.

Ｗhile I agree the skill set required for playing in a deeper role is not entirely the same as playing as an AM/SS, it does demonstrate some qualities of the player and van de Beek has been disappointing. He doesn't shoulder check before he gets the ball, he has no idea about what's around him, he has limited technical ability in protecting the ball, he shows no willingness, imagination or whatsoever to bring the ball forward and create something. All of these are qualities you need even in a more advanced role. Some players don't perform because they play in a wrong position, but I don't think it's the case for him.

 

[The United]

Ｗhile I agree the skill set required for playing in a deeper role is not entirely the same as playing as an AM/SS, it does demonstrate some qualities of the player and van de Beek has been disappointing. He doesn't shoulder check before he gets the ball, he has no idea about what's around him, he has limited technical ability in protecting the ball, he shows no willingness, imagination or whatsoever to bring the ball forward and create something. All of these are qualities you need even in a more advanced role. Some players don't perform because they play in a wrong position, but I don't think it's the case for him.

Let's say he is a shit player but he is still a professional player. Who has more abilities to play for advanced role than a deeper role. I think that much is clear.

I am just amused by people who want him to start every game. He is not good enough for that now and he probably will not if we upgrade our DM/CM and attacking positions. But, if he is a good sub from the bench like how Mata has been in last few years, he will be a useful player for us.

 

[zenith]

Everything about his movement tells me that he's more suited to a second striker role. He constantly looks to move forward, rather than control a game.

If we can't give him games in that position then better to do what is mutually correct for both and go separate ways