[P-Nut]

I've seen Garner has been apparently doing pretty well on loan - I've also seen some of the posters who watch our academy games speak highly of him and would assume he could essentially just come in and take Matic's role next season.

VdB is an unknown in CM - I agree he seems too safe sometimes and he might be crap - but then I also think maybe that's what we need in games against 'weaker' teams. If someone counted the amount of times we turned over possession without getting into a good goal scoring position I think we'd be top of the league for that stat. I'd definitely not start him against any of the top 6 or so there until we know what he can do though.

I've seen a lot of posters talk about fatigue but think of how we play and the effect is has on our own team. We play 90mins of end to end unstructured football, Bruno basically runs most of the game. We never try to tire out teams we just go for it and back ourselves to outlast and outfight teams. Now and then, even if it's only against the bottom few teams I really think we should stop with the rush, have confidence in our players obvious abilities and just make teams like WBA and SHU chase the ball until they tire. It would also not Traveller our own players out so much.

I'm not so sure on that, we can't even break teams down when we try and play at pace, slowing that down would only make that issue even worse.

Like I said I'd like to see him get a run there when we have top 4 secured so we can rest our starters for the Europa.

 

[Tallis]

He hasn’t got a run of games to build his rhythm and develop partnerships with his teammates.

I must confess that DVB is one of the biggest mysteries for me. I was very keen on his signing but can’t work out what Ole dislikes about him. Hopefully, it’s just a matter of time and we see more of him next year.

 

[RedIan]

He hasn’t got a run of games to build his rhythm and develop partnerships with his teammates.

I must confess that DVB is one of the biggest mysteries for me. I was very keen on his signing but can’t work out what Ole dislikes about him. Hopefully, it’s just a matter of time and we see more of him next year.

We shouldn’t have bought him , he basically plays where Bruno plays and bruno is twice the player. We had urgent need for a quality DM, RW and a CH and we buy a number 10??? Beggars believe.

 

[DoomSlayer]

We shouldn’t have bought him , he basically plays where Bruno plays and bruno is twice the player. We had urgent need for a quality DM, RW and a CH and we buy a number 10??? Beggars believe.

Yeah, I thought he was bought as he can play across the whole midfield with similar efficiency. Didn't know DVB wanted to play exclusively as a number 10.

 

[lex talionis]

I've seen Garner has been apparently doing pretty well on loan - I've also seen some of the posters who watch our academy games speak highly of him and would assume he could essentially just come in and take Matic's role next season.

VdB is an unknown in CM - I agree he seems too safe sometimes and he might be crap - but then I also think maybe that's what we need in games against 'weaker' teams. If someone counted the amount of times we turned over possession without getting into a good goal scoring position I think we'd be top of the league for that stat. I'd definitely not start him against any of the top 6 or so there until we know what he can do though.

I've seen a lot of posters talk about fatigue but think of how we play and the effect is has on our own team. We play 90mins of end to end unstructured football, Bruno basically runs most of the game. We never try to tire out teams we just go for it and back ourselves to outlast and outfight teams. Now and then, even if it's only against the bottom few teams I really think we should stop with the rush, have confidence in our players obvious abilities and just make teams like WBA and SHU chase the ball until they tire. It would also not Traveller our own players out so much.

The point I bolded is particularly worth noting. It's an overstatement to suggest that we have no tactics, but it's not an overstatement to state that we rely too much on individual moments of genius rather than imposing a sustainable strategy to break down opposition. Look at the Pogba goal against Milan -- and so many others this season, but this was a recent goal. Can anyone seriously argue that Pogba's goal was the result of tactical genius by the manager and implemented by the players? I hope I don't see anyone saying yes. Ole threw Pogba onto the pitch (credit to Ole for that) and Pogba basically said feck you to Milan and got the goal and with stout defending we got the win to go through to the next round.

So many other goals we've scored this season came about in a similar manner...a moment of brilliance.

Van de Beek is not a player who relies moments of genius in the way that Rashford, Fernandes and Pogba do, and how Martial once did. We all know his game, and whether you think he's a shit Ajax reject (I happen to be one who sees a very good footballer in Donny) it's clear to me now that his future doesn't lie with Manchester United, at least not under Ole's management. We might as well find a decent club for him such as Barcelona or Real, collect the 25m we should be able to get for him, and collect every penny in the sofa and bring in one or two top, top footballers who can play Oleball. Maybe Grealish, Sancho or some other gem who plays big, so to speak, rather than tucks in tidy one-touch passes.

 

[Resch]

We do not have enough strikers, so we should try him in a 4-2-2-2

------------------Carvani
--------------------------Greenwood
Bruno--------------------------------------------------VDB
------------------Pogba--------------McT---------

 

[tomaldinho1]

I'm not so sure on that, we can't even break teams down when we try and play at pace, slowing that down would only make that issue even worse.

Like I said I'd like to see him get a run there when we have top 4 secured so we can rest our starters for the Europa.

We won't know until we try I guess! I'd say top four is almost guaranteed sine WHUM drew the other day - not to rest on our laurels but we'd have to absolutely nosedive to drop out now.

 

[P-Nut]

We won't know until we try I guess! I'd say top four is almost guaranteed sine WHUM drew the other day - not to rest on our laurels but we'd have to absolutely nosedive to drop out now.

Yeah another 2 or 3 wins and I reckon its done. Should keep the first team ticking over for the Europa league after that.

 

[Adcuth]

Not had a lot to go in with him. Noticed 1 thing against Leicester that annoyed me though. Martial on the ball heading towards goal. Donny slightly behind him. Expected him to bust a gut to give Martial an option for the pass to his right but he slowed down and basically tucked in behind Martial who then did nothing with the ball. Confidence or not, there was an opportunity there and he wasn't willing to make the most of it.

 

[Pickle85]

Not had a lot to go in with him. Noticed 1 thing against Leicester that annoyed me though. Martial on the ball heading towards goal. Donny slightly behind him. Expected him to bust a gut to give Martial an option for the pass to his right but he slowed down and basically tucked in behind Martial who then did nothing with the ball. Confidence or not, there was an opportunity there and he wasn't willing to make the most of it.

Yep this jumped out at me at the time too...so frustrating. He seems utterly bereft of confidence (and match sharpness) at the moment and, worryingly, as a result I was left wondering whether he was actually hiding for much of the game. Actively avoiding making himself an option which to me is unacceptable. Say what you will about Fred (he was utterly dire) but he never stopped showing for the ball. It's one thing to have an off day but another entirely not to have the stomach for the fight. It was a pretty gutless performance from VdB...sure there are definitely mitigating factors but I'm losing faith fast that he'll become a useful player for us.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Van de Beek is not a player who relies moments of genius in the way that Rashford, Fernandes and Pogba do, and how Martial once did. We all know his game, and whether you think he's a shit Ajax reject (I happen to be one who sees a very good footballer in Donny) it's clear to me now that his future doesn't lie with Manchester United, at least not under Ole's management. We might as well find a decent club for him such as Barcelona or Real, collect the 25m we should be able to get for him, and collect every penny in the sofa and bring in one or two top, top footballers who can play Oleball. Maybe Grealish, Sancho or some other gem who plays big, so to speak, rather than tucks in tidy one-touch passes.

He's a younger Davy Klaassen. I'm not sure what the management were expecting of him when they signed him, but surely it has to be more than what he's shown so far. He was supposed to replace Pereira, Mata and Lingard.

 

[lex talionis]

He's a younger Davy Klaassen. I'm not sure what the management were expecting of him when they signed him, but surely it has to be more than what he's shown so far. He was supposed to replace Pereira, Mata and Lingard.

We're all struggling to figure this one out. On the one hand it's not hard to see Donny as the planned cover for Bruno, but it's impossible to imagine that that's what Donny himself had in mind for his move to a massive club, only slightly more massive than Ajax, where he already a star player and regular starter. And why spend 40m on a backup for Bruno when we already had Pereira, Mata and Lingard?

Thing is, and I know there's disagreement here on this point, Donny started out quite well for us before he got frozen out and had his confidence shot. No, not Bruno-like in quality, but more than competent and in some ways a class ahead of his more athletic teammates. When he was given limited action, it was usually with less competent teammates who didn't know what to make of an actual pass and move footballer.

When we see McFred play game after game, limited though they are, and we starve for goals, it's a shame to see such a superior footballer rot on the bench. But not that he's rotted, it would be cruel to throw him back onto the pitch and watch him struggle to recover form. Let's just let him see out his United days mercifully and use whatever we've got in the warchest for the kind of swashbuckling footballers who can thrive under Ole's "Have at it, boys!" tactics -- which I'm not complaining about as there can be few complaints about being second in the PL behind a vastly superior City side (whom we beat, it must be remembered) and moving along nicely enough in the EL.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The point I bolded is particularly worth noting. It's an overstatement to suggest that we have no tactics, but it's not an overstatement to state that we rely too much on individual moments of genius rather than imposing a sustainable strategy to break down opposition. Look at the Pogba goal against Milan -- and so many others this season, but this was a recent goal. Can anyone seriously argue that Pogba's goal was the result of tactical genius by the manager and implemented by the players? I hope I don't see anyone saying yes. Ole threw Pogba onto the pitch (credit to Ole for that) and Pogba basically said feck you to Milan and got the goal and with stout defending we got the win to go through to the next round.

So many other goals we've scored this season came about in a similar manner...a moment of brilliance.

Van de Beek is not a player who relies moments of genius in the way that Rashford, Fernandes and Pogba do, and how Martial once did. We all know his game, and whether you think he's a shit Ajax reject (I happen to be one who sees a very good footballer in Donny) it's clear to me now that his future doesn't lie with Manchester United, at least not under Ole's management. We might as well find a decent club for him such as Barcelona or Real, collect the 25m we should be able to get for him, and collect every penny in the sofa and bring in one or two top, top footballers who can play Oleball. Maybe Grealish, Sancho or some other gem who plays big, so to speak, rather than tucks in tidy one-touch passes.

Yep - it's horses for courses and there's no right or wrong way to play football but it's so obvious VdB has grown up in a completely different system. Our midfield two is essentially a ball winning and simple passing machine that demands agility and speed mixed with getting up and down the pitch for 90 mins. Bruno sits in front as some kind of quasi striker, AM, 10, 8 and whatever else he pleases.

We have the players to play 433 with a single sitting DM in most of the games versus teams that will sit back against us. I think VdB could even play there alone in those games because when we play someone like Newcastle, SHU, Wolves etc, you generally have a lone striker being marked by 2 CBs and McFred. It's overkill. I don't think we'll ever see it but would be great if he does get a run towards end of the season somewhere other than at 10.

 

[Strelok]

I was very keen on his signing but can’t work out what Ole dislikes about him.

I don't know what Ole dislikes about him either but I'm pretty sure I know what most of our fanbase dislike about him. Tbh it's more I can't work out what's wrong with this dude. Like it'd kill him if he tries a pass forward.

 

[FromTheBench]

He reminds me of Shinji Kagawa and Little Henrikh Mkhitaryan.

Decent all round players without any special highlight ability.

Both turned out pointless signings and Dvb is heading the same way.

With other pressing needs bewildering we bought him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He reminds me of Shinji Kagawa and Little Henrikh Mkhitaryan.

Decent all round players without any special highlight ability.

Both turned out pointless signings and Dvb is heading the same way.

With other pressing needs bewildering we bought him.

While they had their flaws and ended up as misfits, especially Kagawa and also Mkhitaryan were 5 times the players for us that VDB is currently proving to be. I know exactly what you mean that they were players too that depended on their team mates far too much and didnt have the individual quality to shine, like VDB, but he's been a whole new level of pointless thus far.

 

[lex talionis]

Yep - it's horses for courses and there's no right or wrong way to play football but it's so obvious VdB has grown up in a completely different system. Our midfield two is essentially a ball winning and simple passing machine that demands agility and speed mixed with getting up and down the pitch for 90 mins. Bruno sits in front as some kind of quasi striker, AM, 10, 8 and whatever else he pleases.

We have the players to play 433 with a single sitting DM in most of the games versus teams that will sit back against us. I think VdB could even play there alone in those games because when we play someone like Newcastle, SHU, Wolves etc, you generally have a lone striker being marked by 2 CBs and McFred. It's overkill. I don't think we'll ever see it but would be great if he does get a run towards end of the season somewhere other than at 10.

Completely agree.

 

[KirkDuyt]

He reminds me of Shinji Kagawa and Little Henrikh Mkhitaryan.

Decent all round players without any special highlight ability.

Both turned out pointless signings and Dvb is heading the same way.

With other pressing needs bewildering we bought him.

Those guys are infinitely more talented players.

VdB is a very simple player who can do 1 very simpme thing. He can do feck all else and might as well go back to Ajax now.

 

[tayside red]

We should loan out DvB to Wayne at Derby.
Let him go there and build up his confidence working with a Utd all time legend who knows what it takes to play for us.
If he starts showing what we bought him for, all good and well, if not and he's found his level then all the better for the player, he can't be a happy bunny with us just now.

 

[Bebestation]

I hope that all he needs is a pre season with a new CDM to get him going.

I'm an Ole in dude - but theres a part of me that thinks VDB will be better under a different manager with a more specific tactical style. It's why I hope he is a bit patient here because whilst I think Ole has done relatively well for a rebuild manager - I dont think he will be here for so much longer.

 

[The Mitcher]

Those guys are infinitely more talented players.

VdB is a very simple player who can do 1 very simpme thing. He can do feck all else and might as well go back to Ajax now.

Two things: Hiding and passing backwards!

 

[Member 109952]

50% refund policy to Ajax, please?

 

[Offside]

Have we had a player who hides away from things as much as he does? Like some emo kid in P.E.It’s pretty embarrassing. His confidence is absolute 0. I don’t think he’s been managed that well but he’s had enough starts to show something. There’s the odd bit of neat and tidy player (even on Sunday for Greenwood’s goal) but 90% of the time he’s offering absolutely nothing. Could well be sold.

 

[Giggsy13]

The state of our supporters, passing judgment on a player after one fecking year. Grow up, the player needs more time to adapt to the premier league. Not every player can make a Bruno like impact their first season.

 

[Foxbatt]

He wasn't hiding when he made his debut. Ajax play in a different way. They control, pass and move. He presses well too.
We should sell him and he should force a move to a club that gets him to play football.

 

[Bobcat]

Maybe getting next to no game time has contributed to him not performing? He’s come to a new league, from a team with a deep & extensive tactical philosophy to a team with no tactical philosophy. Evra & Vidic were shit in their first seasons too, and they were given more opportunities than Donny, in a much more cohesive unit under an infinitely better manager. Plenty of players take time to adapt. Ole has handled him horribly.

Bruno, AWB, Maguire etc have slotted in just fine. You cant blame the "system" when you have a no 10 that hides from the ball and is that risk averse in his passing. Hes neat and tidy on the ball, but thats about it.

Dutch Cleverley

 

[eltigreFalcao]

That's what Peter Bosz, said..

Appoint Bosz as head coach and unleash DVB

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

So many other goals we've scored this season came about in a similar manner...a moment of brilliance.

Van de Beek is not a player who relies moments of genius in the way that Rashford, Fernandes and Pogba do, and how Martial once did. We all know his game, and whether you think he's a shit Ajax reject (I happen to be one who sees a very good footballer in Donny) it's clear to me now that his future doesn't lie with Manchester United, at least not under Ole's management. We might as well find a decent club for him such as Barcelona or Real, collect the 25m we should be able to get for him, and collect every penny in the sofa and bring in one or two top, top footballers who can play Oleball. Maybe Grealish, Sancho or some other gem who plays big, so to speak, rather than tucks in tidy one-touch passes.

Agree if he was at Barca or City, PSG , Chelsea, Juve, Bayern etc we’d be drooling at him and wondering how they got such a technical and intelligent player for £40m while we have Matic and Fred

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Yep this jumped out at me at the time too...so frustrating. He seems utterly bereft of confidence (and match sharpness) at the moment and, worryingly, as a result I was left wondering whether he was actually hiding for much of the game. Actively avoiding making himself an option which to me is unacceptable. Say what you will about Fred (he was utterly dire) but he never stopped showing for the ball. It's one thing to have an off day but another entirely not to have the stomach for the fight. It was a pretty gutless performance from VdB...sure there are definitely mitigating factors but I'm losing faith fast that he'll become a useful player for us.

Same. Reminds me a lot of Tom Cleverly. Jogs about pointing at team mates for people to pass to. Can’t run with ball either and likes passing sideways or backwards.

Very disappointed as I had high hopes when he was signed.

I do feel like a hypocrite though, as I don’t think he’s been treated fairly. He’s had so few opportunities in games to develop an understanding with any of his team mates.

When he does play, I don’t see him busting a gut, look at the way Bruno is pressing defenders etc. and then compare with Donny.

VDB looks like a player without any real desire to prove himself. Reminds me a bit of Pogba’s attitude under Mourinho.

 

[sglowrider]

I hope that all he needs is a pre season with a new CDM to get him going.

I'm an Ole in dude - but theres a part of me that thinks VDB will be better under a different manager with a more specific tactical style. It's why I hope he is a bit patient here because whilst I think Ole has done relatively well for a rebuild manager - I dont think he will be here for so much longer.

He needs a proper pre-season before we all give up on him. He clearly looks lost out there but a pre-season should sort that out. There is a player in there.

 

[lex talionis]

Agree if he was at Barca or City, PSG , Chelsea, Juve, Bayern etc we’d be drooling at him and wondering how they got such a technical and intelligent player for £40m while we have Matic and Fred

It boggles the mind that Ole let Donny rot on the bench while persisting with vastly inferior players such as Fred and James. I’m an OleIn man (through May) but his mismanagement and nonuse of Donny, when it was clear Pogba when he was unfit from Covid and then when he was injured, is inexcusable.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Agree if he was at Barca or City, PSG , Chelsea, Juve, Bayern etc we’d be drooling at him and wondering how they got such a technical and intelligent player for £40m while we have Matic and Fred

It boggles the mind that Ole let Donny rot on the bench while persisting with vastly inferior players such as Fred and James. I’m an OleIn man (through May) but his mismanagement and nonuse of Donny, when it was clear Pogba when he was unfit from Covid and then when he was injured, is inexcusable.

I think its just a matter of him not suited to our style of play, we prefer to play without the ball and counter, I think he thrives in a possession type system with loads of players around him for quick passes triangles etc. He would unfortunately be the perfect player for City. Ole seems think of him as a 10 which he isn’t.

 

[Idxomer]

He should've played more earlier in the season, he was one of the few players who had a normal pre-season albeit with a different team.

After that, he was underwhelming whenever he played and his performances didn't warrant any more starts than the ones he got.

 

[midnightmare]

One more video, i swear. 1:37min, look at that long pass for the assist. 3:00min, backheel nutmeg on the defender. This isn't the player we are seeing at Utd.

I'll say this to even the most ardent critic of Donny, watch the first 4mins only. Just 4mins to get an idea of the player we have signed and whats hes like when hes confident and loved. Just class. Ole has really shot his confidence. If we can get him back to his ajax levels we have a helluva player on our hands. Its a big IF.

This is the issue. Firstly, a clip of highlight compilations could even make Bebe look insanely good. And yet, what I took away from this video was:
1. Just that one long pass forward - and that was with oodles of space
2. Most of the rest is sideways passing after shows of great individual skill
3. A massive number of the moves end while he's running - which leads me to conclude that he basically went nowhere with the ball.

If you take a Bruno video however, you'll find some crazy assists and goals - resulting from him moving the ball forward and being really risky / creative. So to say Ole took this away from Donny is not true. You could make a similar video of Donny at United too - minus the goals. Lots of neat individual skills - and then nothing but a sideways pass. One backheel here or there doesn't change what he brings right now - a lot of sideways / backwards passing that slows us down / leads to moves breaking down or fizzling out.

Whether he’s low on confidence or not he needs to dig himself out of it. Passing the ball backwards when in promising attacking situations is unacceptable. Most people would rather he tried and failed to play the killer pass instead of playing it safe.

That's why I completely get Ole not playing him right now. Donny needs to be able to carry the ball and then put it in the right areas - ahead of him. The more the games he plays and is ineffective, the worse his confidence will get.

He's most likely a better playmaker than Bruno, probably Pogba as well (although he is improving at that this season). Both are top chance creators but they are not that good at decision-making, making plays and moving the team up the pitch, which Donny is good at.

All the complaining about sideways and backwards passing is showing lack of understanding in how to move the team up the pitch. Then again, we haven't been a possession team for a long time so people will not be used to the short little sideways and backwards passes that help control the tempo of the game.

Clearly we have different ideas of what playmakers should be doing. Donny is nowhere close to Bruno on this. Just look up Bruno's numbers on a /90 basis in terms of the opportunities he creates - both for himself and his teammates. A playmaker isn't tasked with keeping possession, but with maximizing how possession is converted into chances. The complaining about VDB is that he's the epitome (right now) of a player in the LvG mould - where keeping the ball > creating a chance, but risking losing the ball.

 

[evil_geko]

Rio Ferdinand offers sympathy to Donny van de Beek regarding his Manchester United game time and claims Dutchman would add 'value' and 'intelligence' to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's midfield

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-value-intelligence-Man-Uniteds-midfield.html

"I feel for him. I don't care who you are - if you're playing the odd two minutes here and there, three minutes here and there, you cannot perform. I don't care what level of player you are."

"I don't think he's been helped in terms of team selection and opportunities so I don't think it's fair to say he's underperforming because he's not been put in a position to perform yet on a consistent basis."

Well Rio, what do you know, Caf decided he is a shit player, a "worse Tom Cleverley" how someone put it, and Caf knows best, right? We don't rate players here based on logic.

 

[dinostar77]

Rio Ferdinand offers sympathy to Donny van de Beek regarding his Manchester United game time and claims Dutchman would add 'value' and 'intelligence' to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's midfield

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-value-intelligence-Man-Uniteds-midfield.html




Well Rio, what do you know, Caf decided he is a shit player, a "worse Tom Cleverley" how someone put it, and Caf knows best, right? We don't rate players here based on logic.

Hahaha. Yeh what does Rio know. Caf armchair experts know better.

 

[Pickle85]

Rio Ferdinand offers sympathy to Donny van de Beek regarding his Manchester United game time and claims Dutchman would add 'value' and 'intelligence' to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's midfield

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-value-intelligence-Man-Uniteds-midfield.html




Well Rio, what do you know, Caf decided he is a shit player, a "worse Tom Cleverley" how someone put it, and Caf knows best, right? We don't rate players here based on logic.

No offense but this is a bit simplistic. Very easy to roll eyes, throw away the old 'Ah typical caf' lines and write off armchair experts but he simply hadn't shown enough when given the chances. Granted, he's not had much of a chance to build up match sharpness but going off what he's shown in a united shirt so far it's hardly a stretch to suggest he's not pulled up trees. It's also totally disregarding the other ex-players that have been critical of DvB when he's played. Does Rio's opinion carry more weight just because he's ex United?

 

[The Mitcher]

I'm sick of seeing Ajax being brought up as an excuse for his largely poor performances. He's at United now, he has to be judged as a United player. Amad has played twice and seems more natural a fit than he has in this entire season. Perhaps he's just not good enough.

 

[Pickle85]

I'm sick of seeing Ajax being brought up as an excuse for his largely poor performances. He's at United now, he has to be judged as a United player. Amad has played twice and seems more natural a fit than he has in this entire season. Perhaps he's just not good enough.

Yup, basically this.

 

[RashyForPM]

I'm sick of seeing Ajax being brought up as an excuse for his largely poor performances. He's at United now, he has to be judged as a United player. Amad has played twice and seems more natural a fit than he has in this entire season. Perhaps he's just not good enough.

You can’t not bring Ajax up. It’s literally the club he played for at CL level up to just last year. It’s the club who he scored 3 goals and made assists for en route to the CL semis in 2019. It’s the club who regarded him as good enough to try save a game against a Mourinho defence (when he could actually organise one) in a European final as a 20 year old.

Give him time, at least one more season. He is a good player. He played his two best games for us as a number 8 next to a holding midfielder against Basaksehir and Southampton in two wins, and hasn’t played there since. This isn’t an excuse, it’s a valid point (imo). If he played his best games as a CM, and McFred clearly doesn’t work against the lesser sides, then Ole should surely try VdB there again. Chelsea wouldn’t even think of letting Havertz go this summer.