[tjb]

The BBC pundits nailed it at half time. He spent far too much time out wide or trying to play as a striker instead of trying to get in pockets of space or coming deep to get the ball and pass from there. You're a playmaker. Get the ball, make some plays. Don't expect others to do it for you.

So many times the ball was with Fred or Matic and he wasn't even on the screen to be passed to.

Some people still think he's like Thomas Muller. Muller still gets himself involved with play...he can dribble and pass incisively, even though its not the prettiest. His dribbling allows him to be functional across the front 4, which allows him to use his tactical intelligence and movement more often. VDB isn't like Muller. The reason why people think others can't understand what he brings is that they don't actually understand what their prime example brings. It's like Xavi really. In his prime, a player who could consecutively make 5 yard passes were compared to him. It' s the reason Cleverley was highly touted. They didn't realise that the skills that made him effective were his first touch, agility ( which he used to change directions quickly), balance ( which allowed him to keep the ball in spite of heavy pressing) and vision. This allowed him to do his main role in constantly providing a passing option for his teammates, knowing fully well that he had the ability to keep and release the ball with ease. Similarly with Iniesta, compared to Lingard simply because he could move off the ball. Iniesta was the opposite of Xavi at Barcelona. He provided a steady outlet for teammates struggling to keep possession, essentially mopping up danger with his availability and moving the ball on to a position of the pitch that had less danger. Lingard was the furthest thing from that.

In essence, people tend to create an idea of a player being good or potentially being good because they do a few things similar to another player who was wildly successful. However, that doesn't mean that player is good or even performs the same role. Muller's movement is like Fernandes'. He moves into spaces that allow him to support other attackers, his agility and off the ball awareness allows him to operate anywhere in the attack. VDB simply stays mostly central and high. He doesn't support attacks, but rather runs into positions where he can score or provide the mhikitaryan assist directly. Like Mhikitaryan, his play, even in his best form, is not involved in the build up play enough to be useful for United.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

VDB doesn’t have physical and defensive attribute like McTominay and now that McTominay has added more goals in his game means there is no reason why VDB is currently a better option box to box than McTominay. He needs to show more defensive works and offers the same energy as Fred if he wants to be above Fred in pecking order too.

I never understand why didn’t the board just give Ole Grealish instead. Could use the 35m on VDB and add another 35m on it to sign Grealish (when his price last summer was 70m). Given the amount of time we have used VDB, he‘s becoming more like a 15m investment, purely just backup. Not even an impact sub player and nor a rotation player either.

Honestly, this is not surprising at all if you did your research on him before. I always have something in mind since 2019 that why this guy is so highly rated but when it comes to international Netherlands team, he tends to sit on the bench a lot under Koeman since 2018.

 

[Jackal981]

Mctominay was breaking in to the first team, we all actually knew what Fred was good at ( we just thought he would be better at it than he is). With VDB, he literally offers nothing. I actually think playing him is worse than us using Lingard there at the moment, both ran away from the ball, but at least with Jesse, you had spurts where he could drive into the box. He's like playing with 10 men at the moment. Still better than Pereira though, Pereira actively destroyed attacks.

Lingard at least has some pace in him and try to press hard. VDB looks like a random fan playing tonight

 

[hungrywing]

Some people still think he's like Thomas Muller. Muller still gets himself involved with play...he can dribble and pass incisively, even though its not the prettiest. His dribbling allows him to be functional across the front 4, which allows him to use his tactical intelligence and movement more often. VDB isn't like Muller. The reason why people think others can't understand what he brings is that they don't actually understand what their prime example brings. It's like Xavi really. In his prime, a player who could consecutively make 5 yard passes were compared to him. It' s the reason Cleverley was highly touted. They didn't realise that the skills that made him effective were his first touch, agility ( which he used to change directions quickly), balance ( which allowed him to keep the ball in spite of heavy pressing) and vision. This allowed him to do his main role in constantly providing a passing option for his teammates, knowing fully well that he had the ability to keep and release the ball with ease. Similarly with Iniesta, compared to Lingard simply because he could move off the ball. Iniesta was the opposite of Xavi at Barcelona. He provided a steady outlet for teammates struggling to keep possession, essentially mopping up danger with his availability and moving the ball on to a position of the pitch that had less danger. Lingard was the furthest thing from that.

In essence, people tend to create an idea of a player being good or potentially being good because they do a few things similar to another player who was wildly successful. However, that doesn't mean that player is good or even performs the same role. Muller's movement is like Fernandes'. He moves into spaces that allow him to support other attackers, his agility and off the ball awareness allows him to operate anywhere in the attack. VDB simply stays mostly central and high. He doesn't support attacks, but rather runs into positions where he can score or provide the mhikitaryan assist directly. Like Mhikitaryan, his play, even in his best form, is not involved in the build up play enough to be useful for United.

Did he play this way at Ajax, too? Or was he much more aggressive and involved?

 

[city-puma]

I think he needs to do a lot of more link-up play. Otherwise, no one knows what he intends to do next. Chemistry. In the other words, he needs to actively seek to establish the chemistry rather than wait for it come from nowhere.

 

[Bebestation]

He isnt a creative player but a goalscorer from midfield.

Playing him in front of Fred, Matic and Mctomminay isn't really going to do anything because VDB is making runs off in to front spaces rather than dropping deep in to half spaces. The players he plays with are not deep creative passers of the ball or even pull back/crosses of the ball(Mctomminay, Matic, Fred, Rashford, Greenwood compared to tadic, ziyech, Neres etc) so he is pretty useless.

VDB is useless to this team unless he plays with Pogba, Bruno and Shaw - arguably the only 3 creative players we have in the team at a push. If he was bought for their replacement and cover rather than playing with them he isnt going to play the game that suits his nature and it's best just to sell him.

A poor buy that Ole doesn't have the tactical ability to use, you could see from the starting XI why it wouldn't work even before the game started.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I think he is a flop so far, quite a pointless player in our team, I just don’t see him offering anything in our midfield at all. He is currently our 6th choice midfielder behind Bruno, Pogba, Fred, Mctominay and Matic, and rightly so. And the fact we’ve spend around half of our budget last summer to sign him makes the whole thing look even worse. I mean, is he even better than Pereira?

But saying that will still give him benefit of doubt and another year to settle first, as we have all totally misjudged Fred during his first season with us.

 

[RashysTekkers]

Remember when Fred just joined and played like your cousin in the Sunday league? Heavy touches, headless chicken runs into dead ends, dire passing, constantly losing the ball etc?

Donny's going thru the same phase. Just be patient and have a little bit faith. Fabinho didn't even get game time for the 1st few months of his Liverpool career for crying out loud.

You lot throwing the word 'flop' around like he's been failing since 2010. Jesus

 

[Giggs86]

I honestly don't know what people see in him, and where is that "talented kid" from Ajax. Hopefully I'm wrong but so far looks like a big flop.

 

[sglowrider]

I don't think he suits the present United setup. I really think he's probably more suited to a more pass and move system (City, Barca).

I think he was bought for the future. There is a development roadmap for the squad. We are a different team from the 1st six months of Ole's reign and this season. We have added new stuff. And we will be next season when hopefully they get enough pre-season for Ole's to implement his new layer of plays.

We have seen it all too many times, we expect a player to dovetail immediately and was slagged off as failures after a month.
Maybe DVB was supposed to come in next summer vis a vis the new layer of plays but was alerted by Van Der Sar about competing interest. So we had to jump the gun on him.

 

[Donut]

We should really look to sell him but who’s going to pay more than 10 million for him now? Thus we need to try our best to involve a system player in a system that couldn’t not suit him more.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Hopefully he turns it around just like Fred did.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Whoever decided to buy him needs to be fired. Wtf was Ole thinking? He was never good enough and doesnt even suit him. I am not surprised, was easy to predict. Was flabbergasted in the summer when we bought him.

Sell him to Barca and Koeman, as long as he is the manager there

so if it was OGS who made the decision to buy him, you would fire the manager?

nothing like an overreaction.

 

[The Boy]

I know he hasn't hit the ground running like Bruno did but Bruno was the exception. Players coming from other leagues take time to settle in in normal times, but I should imagine coming into Covid Britain and playing in the prem with empty stadiums for the first time is a hell of a change, add to that that he hasn't had too many minutes to settle in and get used to his team mates or anything else around him, then it is not surprising he's not playing his very best football right now. But I really rate DvB and I wouldn't rush to judge him as a United player just yet, there's a lot more to come from him.

 

[Sylar]

I think he's done this season as an important player. Can't see him starting many games or even being used as a sub to change things

If we get a favourable draw in the next round he may start that game but I can see him being on the bench in Europa too.

Scott and bruno both did so much more when coming on compared to him. They got into positions to receive the ball knowing who their teammates are and what they are capable of.

Vdb needs to adapt and he thus far hasnt. There's no point saying he's making runs that nobody is finding because surely he must realise it too and so needs to do something different and that should include coming deeper to see the ball.

Would be interested to see how many touches he had

 

[youngrell]

His complete reluctance to carry the ball forward, even when there’s acres of space ahead, means he won’t and shouldn’t be playing 10 for us many more times.

I wonder if he’s actually verbally calling for the ball when he’s constantly pointing at his feet to receive it, because his requests do get ignored a lot, but that might just be the players realising he’s not really going to do anything much with it anyway.

He’s looked far better as an 8 for me. Even looked better the couple of times he’s been wide in the diamond.

 

[kafta]

I don't think we've seen anything close to his best yet. He still has levels, and for some reason he has been very passive when played. I'd like to see him alongside Bruno rather than instead of him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Would be great if we could loan players like VDB out for one year to a mid table PL club to get used to English football.

 

[Irrational.]

He's lacking in confidence and too scared to make a mistake. Always making the wrong runs and playing it safe. I'm sure there's a player in there somewhere but he needs a run of games. And with Bruno he'll always be looking over his shoulder.

 

[slored1]

I'll give him time. Not every player is instantly good in this league, look at Fred.

 

[Bebestation]

He is making runs as a shadow striker that no one really seems to see in the first team or directly avoid him.

Telling him to stop making those runs basically stops him from playing his game that made him a good signing on paper and changes it to him turning to something he is not.

He is clearly looking like a player we bought because we couldnt afford Grealish.Grealish has much more individual ability whilst VDB needs to play within a team.

The cut back from Rashford found VDB and he made a shot that was on target but blocked by a player. It's that type of football that VDB needs but doesnt get enough of - players like Rashford and Greenwood dribble against the whole defence before taking a shot. Players like Fred, Matic and Mctomminay are not creative players as seen with how we were without Bruno.

Buying VDB for creativity is like buy Messi for Heading in the PL.

VDB should be sold because he wont improve here unless we are able to add more creativity from depth or witmdth and that doesn't seem a current aspect of our game.

The only way I see VDB improve is if we get players like Grealish and Sancho playing out wide who are able to take chances aswell as create them first hand.

 

[OrcaFat]

He’s come from being one of the best players in the Dutch league to being one of the least good players in our squad. That’s probably been a bit of a shock to him. I think he can play much better even now but he is just not clicking.

He will improve, even in the short term, once he has settled in. Hopefully he develops much more over the next few years. The idea of selling him after six months is bonkers.

 

[freeurmind]

He is fine and will be fine. Just needs to adjust to the team and vice versa. He will get more games next season especially if Pogba leaves in the summer.

 

[crossy1686]

He needs more time to settle and adapt to the English game, also to de-Ajax himself, he doesn't take enough risks sometimes, it's like his DNA is telling him to keep the ball instead of taking someone on or looking up and playing the ball into space.

People were salivating on here when he played his first game for us. I didn't see it then and I still don't see it now. Let's hope he turns it around because he's going nowhere any time soon.

 

[Bobcat]

Nope, that is hard truth from someone who actually watched a lot of him at Ajax and knows what he is capable of.

Eredivisive is not the PL. He plays way, way to safe to make an impact as an AM. His movement is good, but other than that i dont see what he brings to the party

 

[Uniquim]

Thought this part of the Athletic's match review hit a few notes quite cleanly.

"Van de Beek’s integration at United has been a difficult one. Signed to share playing time (rather than playing space) with Paul Pogba and Bruno Fernandes, the Dutchman’s midfield stylings have found him out of step with his team. The raw numbers from his 73-minute performance at Old Trafford make for underwhelming reading: zero chances created, zero shots on target, one tackle, 32 passes (with a passing accuracy of 84.4 per cent), and only 45 touches of the ball – the fewest out of all United’s starters (Matic, who also came off in the 73rd minute, managed 82 touches of the ball, while Fernandes managed 45 touches in 47 minutes.)

The Dutchman’s issues at United stem from a unique skillset that largely rests on how he interprets space on the football field. Although Van de Beek’s best position is in the No 10 playmaker position, he doesn’t operate as an all-encompassing creative hub such as Fernandes. Nor is he a dynamic passer or dribbler like Pogba can be when played further forward.

Van de Beek’s strength comes in his off-the-ball movement, often looking to get ahead of his striker, or to run inside-to-out to occupy pockets of space in the left or right (he prefers the right) channels. While he can play as a box-to-box midfielder in a deeper-lying midfield two, that he was often paired with Lisandro Martinez — primarily a centre back — in Ajax’s bigger games last season suggests he lacks the necessary intensity in defensive action to be a long term option there.

When you play Van de Beek, you want him to run beyond and across your central striker, causing potential overloads and headaches for opposition centre backs. Most playmakers want the ball given to them so they can redistribute it in wild and creative ways — Van de Beek’s version of playmaking sees him make wild and creative runs while asking his teammates to find him.

That’s an impressive skill at a time where modern football is moving away from singular playmakers and working on the collective. There’s a reason why Real Madrid were interested in Van de Beek, and in a non Covid-19 affected timeline, it is likely the 23 year old is making run into the right half space where Luka Modric (or indeed Pogba) is teeing him up with passes, which he would then feed to Karim Benzema.

In this very real and very Covid-19 affected time, Van de Beek ran into the same half space in the opening two minutes against West Ham, only for Fred to take one look at him and decide a simple square ball to Aaron Wan Bissaka was the better option. The Brazilian, along with Matic, would try to their best to find Van de Beek, but neither possess the passing range, nor the bravery in execution to find the Dutchman whenever he eked out these clever pockets of space."

 

[golden_blunder]

He’s on a different wave length to the rest. He’s making runs and they aren’t being spotted half the time. Hopefully that comes with time. If not, he’s a square peg in a round hole and I’m saying that as someone who rated him at Ajax

 

[freeurmind]

The number of runs our forward players make that get ignored by the midfield is mind boggling at times

 

[romufc]

This is the reason why he does not start games. He has 0 influence in games for us.

Now I am hearing that he isn't a 10. What is he then? He isn't an 8 because he is not good enough defensively, and if anyone actually watches him play, he makes runs behind the striker, an 8 does not do that.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

More convinced than ever that he should be playing as a deeper midfielder (the Iniesta 8 role), he needs to be involved, popping balls off constantly. Playing him behind the striker seems so damn wrong, but once again I read above "although Van de Beek’s best position is in the No 10 playmaker position", I just don't see it.

Maybe for a tiki taki dominating Ajax side you can get away with it, but Bruno is a number 10, it's all about taking the ball on the half turn and instantly creating, DvB doesn't want to take the ball, he wants to pop it off, get it back, pop it off etc.

 

[theklr]

When hopefully his intensity is up to speed defensivly I see him more of a Fred than a McT, e.g. a constant harasser. He is coming from a team than are used to have 60-70% posession in a slower league so it takes time to adapt.

Offensivly he makes many good runs/positions , but it seems the other players are blind to him, they never pass him the ball when he is going into the box. So I have patience with him.

He is more of a Firmino role than anything else, at least thats how OGS has talked about him

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I'll give him time. Not every player is instantly good in this league, look at Fred.

Fred? He's still poor. He's great at running around and closing down the ball. What else is he good at? He can't pass, he can't shoot and he gets beaten 1 on 1 quite a lot.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Did he play this way at Ajax, too? Or was he much more aggressive and involved?

At Ajax he was never involved in the build up.. He was a very clean and neat player in the final phase of the field, where he was very aggressive and clinical (also in the small spaces) towards the goal. However the build up was fully handled by Frenkie, Daley (Lasse Schone to a lesser extent) and Ziyech higher up the field.

I dont get why anyone here claims he is or should be a playmaker? Thats not who you bought?

That would be like asking Poga to manmark Mbappe for 90 minutes

 

[Bobcat]

In one breath calls for whoever bought him to be sacked and in the next asks what was Ole thinking (one would assume in buying him) - so do you want Ole sacked because he simply bought a player?

On ESPN the commentators were musing about DVB being forced on Ole by the board.

Not saying he has, but its bizzare how little he has played compared to the others Ole had brought in

 

[SirScholes]

Lingard at least has some pace in him and try to press hard. VDB looks like a random fan playing tonight

that is the best way to describe his performance, very accurate

 

[AltiUn]

I think he's supposed to be technically proficient, mobile, hard working and tactically astute. Someone whose tidy work and link-up play in midfield would help those around him and make the system he's in function better.

Whereas we're currently playing him in a role where we're essentially asking him as an indivudal to just make stuff happen, as Bruno does.

Think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head there.

 

[SirScholes]

More convinced than ever that he should be playing as a deeper midfielder (the Iniesta 8 role), he needs to be involved, popping balls off constantly. Playing him behind the striker seems so damn wrong, but once again I read above "although Van de Beek’s best position is in the No 10 playmaker position", I just don't see it.

Maybe for a tiki taki dominating Ajax side you can get away with it, but Bruno is a number 10, it's all about taking the ball on the half turn and instantly creating, DvB doesn't want to take the ball, he wants to pop it off, get it back, pop it off etc.

I saw him either in the no.9 or outwide, in fact at one point he was behind AWB!
I don’t think he knows where to be in this team, could be tactics weren’t clear but every other player seemed to know where to play.
He provided no link between midfield and attack which I’d assume was his role

 

[Coops73]

Some players take longer than others to settle, VDB is obviously one of those, yes he needs game time but he just looks so lost out there, I actually feel a little sorry for him and I’m willing him on but he just seems so passive, hopefully it’ll come but it’s going to take a lot of patience and you ain’t going to see a lot of that on here.

 

[Water Melon]

How come people believe that VdB was forced onto Ole by the Board? Why on Earth would they spend a lot of money in a player who is not really needed during pandemic time? I am sure VdB has been purchased at Ole's request and thus Ole does need to bear responsibility for getting the most out of him. As Ole himself said previously no player can come into the team or leave it without his final say.

 

[Bebestation]

At Ajax he was never involved in the build up.. He was a very clean and neat player in the final phase of the field, where he was very aggressive and clinical (also in the small spaces) towards the goal. However the build up was fully handled by Frenkie, Daley (Lasse Schone to a lesser extent) and Ziyech higher up the field.

I dont get why anyone here claims he is or should be a playmaker? Thats not who you bought?

That would be like asking Poga to manmark Mbappe for 90 minutes

This.

Complaining about him not being a playmaker is just talking about the wrong player.

He needs to play with a playmaker and creative players in the team because VDB is a clinical player in the final third who makes runs as a shadow striker.

That's why people say he suits teams with a system, able to control possession and play at their own tempo. We are largely the opposite, our most creative player plays as an AM (not deep) whilst we value the counterattack when we dont have the ball and when we do have the ball we are trying to get the ball to our most capable player like Rashford and Bruno Fernandes to dribble past the defensive line or create something or shoot on site. VDB is making the runs as a shadow striker but our players dont see him just as much as the opposition dont (arguably not having the passing ability to reach him from deep either ie Fred & Mctomminay vs De Jong) and leaves him looking like he is running away from the ball all the time.