Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch

Wumminator said:
Are you sure?

He’s going to have to do some serious changing if he’s going to be worth 340k a week.
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He is not natural to play in pl in my opinion. His height and lean frame give him higher center of gravity hence his body won't be in control and he often losing control of the body naturally.For same reason can't able to control the ball in tight situations either.

For the above reason he will struggle in pl. If arsenal create space and time he will shine but that means arsenal will change their entire structure for him. He is not clinical finisher so won't be worth to change structure for him.
 
Rajiztar said:
He is not natural to play in pl in my opinion. His height and lean frame give him higher center of gravity hence his body won't be in control and he often losing control of the body naturally.For same reason can't able to control the ball in tight situations either.

For the above reason he will struggle in pl. If arsenal create space and time he will shine but that means arsenal will change their entire structure for him. He is not clinical finisher so won't be worth to change structure for him.
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When we beat you 4-0 at our place a couple of months ago, I was at the game and I was impressed with his control. Might have been a one off. But he kept dropping deep, holding off or evading our players and advancing your play. I think there's something there with him and Arteta is probably right that he naturally wants to play deeper rather than being a focal point. Almost a false 9/ midfielder type of role. Given Arsenal's fluid attack I could see him having a role, but if it will work and how effective he will be remains to be seen.

Chelsea has just been a very negative place recently, much like we have been for a while until more recently, and isn't great for players like that to thrive. A new environment and a very positive coach/ squad might be what he needs.
 
pocco said:
When we beat you 4-0 at our place a couple of months ago, I was at the game and I was impressed with his control. Might have been a one off. But he kept dropping deep, holding off or evading our players and advancing your play. I think there's something there with him and Arteta is probably right that he naturally wants to play deeper rather than being a focal point. Almost a false 9/ midfielder type of role. Given Arsenal's fluid attack I could see him having a role, but if it will work and how effective he will be remains to be seen.

Chelsea has just been a very negative place recently, much like we have been for a while until more recently, and isn't great for players like that to thrive. A new environment and a very positive coach/ squad might be what he needs.
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He has good touch but controlling the ball in close proximity under pressure surely I didn't see in his chelsea days. May be he will be good for you but only because you will play to his strengths and arteta put the team structure to get the best out of him.

I don't think the way you played last season will suit him. All of your attacking players have the control of the ball in tight spaces that I don't see in him.
 
One of the most bizarre signings in a long time. I’ll go as far as saying this will be Arteta’s worst signing as Arsenal manager. Havertz has been average at best at Chelsea albeit not always playing his natural position.

But he has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he could play in an attacking midfield role which requires defensive work.

Because of this signing alone, I don’t see Arsenal have the same run as last season. What Xhaka provided was a lot more than he gets credit for. Totally different physical and mentality to Havertz. Really surprising signing.
 
The co commentator? Oh mutv seemed to have it in for him. No idea why, but every time he was brought up he was making comments about him being “rubbish”. To be fair the other guy was sticking up for him and mentioned his CL winning goal.
 
Orton said:
The co commentator? Oh mutv seemed to have it in for him. No idea why, but every time he was brought up he was making comments about him being “rubbish”. To be fair the other guy was sticking up for him and mentioned his CL winning goal.
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I thought it was unprofessional tbh.
 
Orton said:
The co commentator? Oh mutv seemed to have it in for him. No idea why, but every time he was brought up he was making comments about him being “rubbish”. To be fair the other guy was sticking up for him and mentioned his CL winning goal.
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He mentioned him finding him crap 2-3 times, the other guy called him out on it, and he carried on saying he didn't understand his price tag. The "rubbish" part may have been somewhat unprofessional, but otherwise he was voicing what pretty much everyone thinks.
 
Orton said:
The co commentator? Oh mutv seemed to have it in for him. No idea why, but every time he was brought up he was making comments about him being “rubbish”. To be fair the other guy was sticking up for him and mentioned his CL winning goal.
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It was Ben Thornley and I can’t say I disagree with him.
 
Adisa said:
I thought it was unprofessional tbh.
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They also could only name 1 of the 4 Arsenal subs coming on midway through the 2nd half . Mentioned Trossaud and didn’t recognise Jorginho , Smith Rowe and Vieira .
 
Orton said:
The co commentator? Oh mutv seemed to have it in for him. No idea why, but every time he was brought up he was making comments about him being “rubbish”. To be fair the other guy was sticking up for him and mentioned his CL winning goal.
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Which is an incredibly lame defence. That’s been trotted out in this thread a few times too.
 
duffer said:
It's so odd to me that he was cack for ages, had one good season and promptly fecked off just as Arsenal are starting to look good
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Yeah, that’s a weird one. I guess the damage already done to his relationship with the club/fans ran too deep. I think he’ll be a big loss. Was very important to them last season. Finally looked the player he’s been for Switzerland.
 
He is a very cheap version of Thomas Müller, like 70 % summer sale version (and I am only saying 70 % because I have never seen 90 % summer sale advertised anywhere).
He is the kind of player you like and endlessly defend because he comes from your academy. And as that academy player is on reasonable/lowish wages and didn’t cost a transfer fee, you can live with him being inconsistent and not particularly good at anything. Therefore you rather focus/appreciate his “tactical flexibility, positional awareness and intelligent play”.
However the reality is that he is an expensive signing on very high wages.
 
Kai started as striker. So arteta understood he was useless in midfield. Thats what i said the moment they signed him.

Arsenal fans argued otherwise like their play will suit him but reality is their intrinsic short pass and move game style will never suit him if he plays in midfield.

If he plays in midfield surely problematic to their structure as well. He will give quick turn over opportunity to opponents because if you press him he will either lose the possession or fouling opponents.
 
Rajiztar said:
Kai started as striker. So arteta understood he was useless in midfield. Thats what i said the moment they signed him.

Arsenal fans argued otherwise like their play will suit him but reality is their intrinsic short pass and move game style will never suit him if he plays in midfield.

If he plays in midfield surely problematic to their structure as well. He will give quick turn over opportunity to opponents because if you press him he will either lose the possession or fouling opponents.
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Tbf, he played there today because Jesus is out injured.

But that match was 100% Kai Havertz in a nutshell when he was at Chelsea. Gets into brilliant scoring positions over and over again but has such a weak shot that he cant put away chances that would be easy for an actual top class striker.

Think he’ll be fine for Arsenal in the same way that he was fine for us. But i don’t see him being transformed into something amazing and new under Arteta.
 
Rajiztar said:
Kai started as striker. So arteta understood he was useless in midfield. Thats what i said the moment they signed him.

Arsenal fans argued otherwise like their play will suit him but reality is their intrinsic short pass and move game style will never suit him if he plays in midfield.

If he plays in midfield surely problematic to their structure as well. He will give quick turn over opportunity to opponents because if you press him he will either lose the possession or fouling opponents.
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This is just such a basic and rubbish take.

Against City.. it makes sense to play Partey and Rice. We also clearly used Havertz height as a ploy to get the ball up the field as much as possible.

He played relatively well first half, dropped off 2nd half, but wasn't terrible by any means. But I can't see him playing up top much.

Rubbish post.
 
Rajiztar said:
Kai started as striker. So arteta understood he was useless in midfield. Thats what i said the moment they signed him.

Arsenal fans argued otherwise like their play will suit him but reality is their intrinsic short pass and move game style will never suit him if he plays in midfield.

If he plays in midfield surely problematic to their structure as well. He will give quick turn over opportunity to opponents because if you press him he will either lose the possession or fouling opponents.
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He doesn’t look to be much use as a striker either. I really don’t understand why they pursued him in the manner they did. I just feel that’s money that could have been better spent elsewhere.
 
Nish115 said:
This is just such a basic and rubbish take.

Against City.. it makes sense to play Partey and Rice. We also clearly used Havertz height as a ploy to get the ball up the field as much as possible.

He played relatively well first half, dropped off 2nd half, but wasn't terrible by any means. But I can't see him playing up top much.

Rubbish post.
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Well said mate. This is what we said all the time when we had him. He played well getting into good position.

He kept losing the ball all the time. I dont think he used his height well when he played for us.

Your game instantly looked lot better the moment he subbed off.

Yes rubbish post.
 
Nish115 said:
This is just such a basic and rubbish take.

Against City.. it makes sense to play Partey and Rice. We also clearly used Havertz height as a ploy to get the ball up the field as much as possible.

He played relatively well first half, dropped off 2nd half, but wasn't terrible by any means. But I can't see him playing up top much.

Rubbish post.
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Understand the logic, but it is a poor signing. Just arrogance from Arteta in thinking that he has spotted something in him that nobody else has.
 
Rajiztar said:
Well said mate. This is what we said all the time when we had him. He played well getting into good position.

He kept losing the ball all the time. I dont think he used his height well when he played for us.

Your game instantly looked lot better the moment he subbed off.

Yes rubbish post.
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Yes an awful post actually.

You said Arteta gave up on him in midfield.. well no.. it's like you didn't even watch the game to see what the tactics were. Garbage.
 
Joel Miller said:
He doesn’t look to be much use as a striker either. I really don’t understand why they pursued him in the manner they did. I just feel that’s money that could have been better spent elsewhere.
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Yeah I find it really weird how committed they were to getting him. If he was a disgruntled player with untapped potential on a cheap deal then I can kind of understand, but to make him a priority signing seems odd.

I do think it's possible things could just click for him - a sudden physical transformation, a new level of focus, something like that - but it really seems like his mentality isn't the right fit for this Arsenal team. I struggle to see how Rice could justify the fee, but at least he fits the general model of players Arteta has went after: young, driven, energetic. Maybe Havertz can bring some balance to that, but it doesn't seem like a good fit on the face of it. Odegaard's busting a gut to get the ball to Havertz, and then Havertz just loses it carelessly, lazily.
 
Remember the geese said:
Understand the logic, but it is a poor signing. Just arrogance from Arteta in thinking that he has spotted something in him that nobody else has.
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I don't actually agree with the signing to be fair, but I think he did alright today, and he is clearly signed to play in midfield but with Jesus injured we need a little more physicality upfront, and i'm not surprised to see Partey and Rice start vs big teams, will happen often.

I mean it isn't arrogance from Mikel, he's got a relatively good hit rate with transfers. The logic is there with the signing in some respects, he is big and is very good at movement. But.. i'm dubious if it'll work. We overpaid anyway.
 
Nish115 said:
I don't actually agree with the signing to be fair, but I think he did alright today, and he is clearly signed to play in midfield but with Jesus injured we need a little more physicality upfront, and i'm not surprised to see Partey and Rice start vs big teams, will happen often.

I mean it isn't arrogance from Mikel, he's got a relatively good hit rate with transfers. The logic is there with the signing in some respects, he is big and is very good at movement. But.. i'm dubious if it'll work. We overpaid anyway.
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Yeah, I'm fairly sure that you can't afford to start Havertz in midfield vs the big teams. He's far too Berbatov like.

I imagine against the small teams his presence will be largely irrelevant. You'd beat them without him anyway. Against the top sides, he'll either destroy your midfield balance or be a substitute for Jesus.
 
Nish115 said:
This is just such a basic and rubbish take.

Against City.. it makes sense to play Partey and Rice. We also clearly used Havertz height as a ploy to get the ball up the field as much as possible.

He played relatively well first half, dropped off 2nd half, but wasn't terrible by any means. But I can't see him playing up top much.

Rubbish post.
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When Jesus is fit Havertz will be sat on the bench, would be crazy to start him in midfield instead of Partey
 
Nish115 said:
Yes an awful post actually.

You said Arteta gave up on him in midfield.. well no.. it's like you didn't even watch the game to see what the tactics were. Garbage.
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What tactics actually. Subbed him off and played well you mean. If thats a tactics then kudos to arteta.

You cant use him in midfield because he dont have close control of the ball when under pressure. He will slow down your game play. He will lose possession in dangerous areas to give opponents head start.
 
Rajiztar said:
What tactics actually. Subbed him off and played well you mean. If thats a tactics then kudos to arteta.

You cant use him in midfield because he dont have close control of the ball when under pressure. He will slow down your game play. He will lose possession in dangerous areas to give opponents head start.
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You've got a City fan in here saying Arsenal deserved something from the game because they were probably the better team the first 65mins, then you have guys like yourself saying we played a lot better when he came off?

I mean, he (& Rice and Timber) played their part in a game that where we went pretty much toe to toe with the best team in Europe, a team that beat Arsenal 8-2 on aggregate across the 3 games last season. A game which no attacking player, including the likes of Grealish and Haaland particularly played well in.

Im not sure what you were expecting to be honest? It's a strange game to be making your point about.
 
GoonerBear said:
You've got a City fan in here saying Arsenal deserved something from the game because they were probably the better team the first 65mins, then you have guys like yourself saying we played a lot better when he came off?

I mean, he (& Rice and Timber) played their part in a game that where we went pretty much toe to toe with the best team in Europe, a team that beat Arsenal 8-2 on aggregate across the 3 games last season. A game which no attacking player, including the likes of Grealish and Haaland particularly played well in.

Im not sure what you were expecting to be honest? It's a strange game to be making your point about.
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Agreed. Thought he was key to Arsenal's structure off the ball; he did a lot of good work disrupting City's buildup play and not letting them get into their typical rhythm.

Very odd to judge how any individual player does in a match against City; they're very obviously at a different level from anyone.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Agreed. Thought he was key to Arsenal's structure off the ball; he did a lot of good work disrupting City's buildup play and not letting them get into their typical rhythm.

Very odd to judge how any individual player does in a match against City; they're very obviously at a different level from anyone.
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Exactly. Unfortunately staying in the game for our teams is the main aim of the game against this City team, which means the performances are mostly about discipline.

We know this better than anyone with our horrendous record against them, and giving away stupid goals to them making the challenge even more uphill.

Even today, our 1 lack of discipline saw Partey vacating the middle of the park to be rolled by Foden that ultimately led to their goal.
 
IrishRedDevil said:
£65m and £330k per week. Wow.
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It’s so clear he’s likely to be a failed signing. I’m still bemused as to why Arteta thinks this was a good signing.

He’s not got the adequate attributes to play midfield and he’s simply shite as a striker.
 
GoonerBear said:
Exactly. Unfortunately staying in the game for our teams is the main aim of the game against this City team, which means the performances are mostly about discipline.

We know this better than anyone with our horrendous record against them, and giving away stupid goals to them making the challenge even more uphill.

Even today, our 1 lack of discipline saw Partey vacating the middle of the park to be rolled by Foden that ultimately led to their goal.
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Also Tierney being a bit past it - sad as he should be entering his prime but looks like injuries have taken their toll cumulatively.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Also Tierney being a bit past it - sad as he should be entering his prime but looks like injuries have taken their toll cumulatively.
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TheMagicFoolBus said:
Also Tierney being a bit past it - sad as he should be entering his prime but looks like injuries have taken their toll cumulatively.
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Disagree with this strongly tbh. He was class in pre-season, him and Trossard maybe our best pre-season players.

The goal was just unlucky imo, he had two players to try and track and just got stuck in between.
 
Nish115 said:
Disagree with this strongly tbh. He was class in pre-season, him and Trossard maybe our best pre-season players.

The goal was just unlucky imo, he had two players to try and track and just got stuck in between.
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Fair enough! I certainly wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert on Arsenal's pre-season exploits. Thought he was pretty poor when he came on, even beyond the goal where he botched the clearance.

He feels like a bit of a tweener to me position-wise - not good enough on the ball to be a fullback for Arsenal especially as they invert and not physical enough to be a CB even in a back 3. Have always had a soft spot for him personally though so would be glad to be proven wrong!
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Fair enough! I certainly wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert on Arsenal's pre-season exploits. Thought he was pretty poor when he came on, even beyond the goal where he botched the clearance.

He feels like a bit of a tweener to me position-wise - not good enough on the ball to be a fullback for Arsenal especially as they invert and not physical enough to be a CB even in a back 3. Have always had a soft spot for him personally though so would be glad to be proven wrong!
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He does struggle in our system, but he offers something different. I think actually a CB in a back 3 is one of his better options at the moment. But ye today he wasnt great.
 
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