You miss the point. Because this is unprecedented it is, by definition, setting precedent. To not pursue it to the fullest is to acknowledge that the January exception exists.
Donald Trump - GUILTY!
- Thread starter Pexbo
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You miss the point. Because this is unprecedented it is, by definition, setting precedent. To not pursue it to the fullest is to acknowledge that the January exception exists.
Except that its already been pursued and will fail shortly. Adding a witness or two may add to the embarrassment of it all, but it wouldn't change the outcome when the Rs are committed to acquittal.
Only the best people
That adNotice they did not add "Impeachment Defense" to their expertise. Good call.
Car crash TV.
Years from now, in future elections, some voters would remember the witnesses speaking. Nobody will remember a piece of paper being read. If Dems know from the start they will lose in congress, their case should be to voters, to stick as much as they can int heir memories, to create stuff that can be replayed in news channels, become part of campaign ads, etc. Every single political strategist in the world knows this.
They would remember the witness if their testimony was incriminating and resulted in a conviction. Otherwise, I doubt it would be remembered other than by students and historians.
It was always going to fail.
This trial has been about optics and about precedent. The dems have failed miserably on both accounts. They will be seen to have capitulated and they have let precedent be established that witnesses do not need to be called, even when in power. They are weak.
The bigger feck you to voters is that hey are going to claim they did this because they do not want to take away from COVID relief and Biden's agenda. Of course we won't hear that for a week because the Majority leader (a dem) is going to gavel them into a week long vacation.
I'll say this......if i was going to trial i would want Neguse and Plaskett repping me.
Yeah, reading all the other comments, I deer how I'm wrong. I didn't think it through properly anyway; I was more thinking about all the other cases hanging over Trump's head, but they have nothing to do with the events of Jan 6 of course. My bad. I do agree that having more people speak on this would make the severity of the situation clearer to the public.
Are you kidding? There will be no consequences for the insurrection, or the big lie, let along a prosecution.
The capitulation by the Dems here will be seen for what it is. The lack of will to fight to put witness on the record that what happened on the 6th was wrong. We will NEVER have a peaceful change of power again if a Republican loses. Mark my word.
I'm not sure why everyone calls it the January Exception though. Post-Electoral Exception would be more correct; the Reps would have made the exact same arguments would this have happened in November. In fact, maybe even Hyper-Polarization Exception; I don't think the Reps would have ever let Trump be removed from office except entirely on their own terms.
Don't you think that this is just the dems showing that they pursued the legal avenues available to them according to the constitution (knowing full well that Trump would be protected by the gop), and now they can go all in with state criminal charges?
But that is just it, they did not pursue all the legal avenues they had. They had the option (and the VOTES) to force Pence/McCarthy/et al. to go on the record or to chose to be in contempt of Congress to protect Trump. They chose to go on vacation instead.
There will be no state charges for Trump for the events of 1/6 because it happened on federal land. There is also no chance "Unifier" (AKA Spineless) Biden allows his AG to pursue federal charges.
The VP, McCarthy, senators testifying and saying negative/incriminating things about Trump wouldn't be useful for democrats in future elections? C'mon man, you're talking as if optics mean nothing in politics.
Have you no shame. Think of those poor Senators missing their vacation! Do you really expect them to work more than 2 weeks a month? Animal.
I definitely see your point, but actual video footage of Graham blasting Trump and also saying that they would not confirm a SCOTUS judge towards the end of a term like they ended up doing meant feck all.
Also this
Trump was never going to be impeached. Everyone here knows that.
This should have been about making it politically excruciating and painful for Republicans. The Dems had an open goal but would even take a shot.
Whats more, the Dems always seem to fold on almost every topic. Even when they have the numbers.
For all the abuse Republicans get about being weak, the Democrats have proven time and time again that they are weaker.
The Dems did the right thing. Dragging this on any longer would just hurt Biden and the COVID response, which are of far more importance to the country and the party's chances in 2022. No one cares about this and it's going to be upto the state attorneys and DOJ to nail Trump.
People crying about the Dems folding are frankly naive and unfit to analyze politics.
People crying about the Dems folding are frankly naive and unfit to analyze politics.
I doubt there would be value for future elections given that most people tend to vote on economics and cultural identity (plus issues like COVID when they happen), and those who do only vote on stuff like this likely already have all the info they need to make a choice.
I have no doubt on my mind that of positions were reversed, we would be hearing from witnesses. The republicans aren't afraid of a scrap.
Anyone trying to rationalise this is being disingenuous imo.
Anyone trying to rationalise this is being disingenuous imo.
He was impeached twice. How are so many people still misunderstanding the basic terminology?
How there were two impeachment trials with zero witnesses and so many refused subpeanas beggars belief. The system over there is truly unfit for purpose.
The fact that Rs like to "fight" and generally skirt the rules isn't exactly positive attribute to aspire to. The Dems obviously have an agenda that they need to get rolling on, especially since they may only have two years of a Dem congress to work with.
OK, so they wasted an amazing opportunity because maybes, mays and mights. Spineless in my view. They should take their chances, like republicans do. It wouldn't hurt them, so why not try?
You’ve just seen the latest in a long line of examples of why the Dems will achieve the square root of feck all with their two years of controlling all three houses.
They bring a toothpick to a gun fight every single time, and they’re too scared to even use the toothpick.
I definitely see your point, but actual video footage of Graham blasting Trump and also saying that they would not confirm a SCOTUS judge towards the end of a term like they ended up doing meant feck all.
Also this
You still remember those videos, like I do and I'm sure millions of americans do or have seen regularly on tv in the last few months. It's impossible to quantify that in votes, but why not give it a try? It would cost the dems nothing.
Sounds good, but in a government where the Dems are only ahead by a few seats in the House and deadlocked at 50/50 in the Senate, they simply don't have the luxury of rolling in like Yosemite Sam, since they need support from the likes of Manchin and about a handful of moderate Rs to push Biden's agenda through. Poisoning the well from the beginning wouldn't really help much in this regard.
That’s just attempted rationalisation.
They’re weak and they’re not playing the same game.
Mitch is a thundering great cnut but he progresses his agenda because he does what it takes.
There’s guilty votes coming from Republicans.
Its reality. McConnell seems to get a lot of credit for being "tough", but in fairness he's apart of a political party that is on the verge of fracturing into pieces. The Dems stand to gain nothing by pounding their chests in a situation where the end result is already rigged against them.
5 it would seem. Surprised if there are more.
5 or 6 at max.
Yeah looks like the expected 5.The fact it’s going to be 55/45 with 5 bi-partisan votes is damning enough.
It would hurt millions of Americans waiting for COVID relief, this isn't just some entertainment for everyone to enjoy. Republicans don't care about hurting people, do you really want to follow that example?
He progresses his agenda because he has no agenda apart from maintaining the status quo + odd tax cut.
Good points. People are treating this like a reality show where someone gets voted off for the entertainment of the audience.
Acquitted.
No surprise there, but the Dems wasted the opportunity to make more of this.
No surprise there, but the Dems wasted the opportunity to make more of this.
If you thing Dems give a feck about this either you just wait till Schumer gavels them all into a nice comfy week long vacation when this is over.
The enormous number of judges appointed under Trump was Mitch’s agenda and he was extremely successful.
57/43
So....Collins, Murkoswski, Romney, Toomey and Sasse. Who else ?
Burr