A lot of people miss this important piece. Any candidate would have to deal with the same split of Congress. It doesn't matter how progressive the President is when he will not be able to get radically progressive legislation passed. Any big pie in the sky policies they are thinking Bernie will just magically get passed would require the filibuster in the Senate to be removed. And that means you would need every single Democrat and Sinema/Manchin who have been against it in the past to go along with it.
Donald Trump - GUILTY!
- Thread starter Pexbo
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Yep. I think the easiest way to pass Sanders style polices would be to get a large swath of Americans to vote in politicians that support the same policies. Then once there are sufficient members in Congress, the nation could elect a Sanders or one of his successors on the left to the Presidency and have it actually mean something.
That is based on an assumption that progressive candidates would not be elected in Congress if Bernie won the primaries. Maybe Dem's would win more seats if he was the candidate?
They wouldn't in any meaningful numbers. He was leading Biden in delegate count in 2020 until Clyburn got involved, but that didn't yield any tangible success among progressives in Congress. There isn't a single proper progressive in the Senate other than Sanders, and with the exception of three or so new members in the House (Bowman, Bush, Cisneros), they don't have much action going on in either branch.
Are you suggesting progressives would be more successful unseating more conservative leaning Democrats's just because Bernie would be on top of the ticket? I mean that's just pure conjecture. And if Bernie can't even muster the confidence of the electorate himself. It isn't logical to assume that suddenly a surge of progressive mystery candidates would instantly be elected in enough numbers to get these sweeping changes they "think" will come with a Bernie presidency.
Take the Senate for example. You won't get a progressive to replace Manchin. If he loses that seat its likely going to a Republican now. Sinema in AZ we could do better than her with Gallego who wants to challenge her. But, shes threatening, or is actually, going to run independent now. Meaning a high chance of a risky 3 way race there that could hand a win to the R. Even though she isn't popular in AZ, she made a strategic calculated move to fend off the challenger.
Trump transformed the republican party after his win. Who's to say that a similar transformation wouldn't have happened had Bernie won.
But he didn't and I think that says it all about the state of american politics, if the democratic voters don't want Bernie.
But he didn't and I think that says it all about the state of american politics, if the democratic voters don't want Bernie.
But we gained control. Ultimately that's what matters.
He transformed it by shifting it from being a party of policies (shitty ones, but they had a platform) to one of personality. Much of this was driven by his core base of voters who were ripe for this indoctrination for reasons that Bernie could, and would, not replicate. Americans like progressive, liberal, policies, they just don't like that they are called progressive and liberal. I think it is literally that simple.
He transformed it because the party was corrupt and willing to capitulate to a demagogue in order to regain power. That would be a very difference scenario to that of the Dems.
+1
Comparing how Trump transformed the Republican party & how Bernie would transform the Dems is like comparing apples to bicycles.
By the time that happens I doubt Sanders would be with us - he's 81 now!
Which would be a concern for the movement as they don't have anyone remotely as charismatic or galvanizing to replace him. There seems to be a bit of a reversion to the mean going on in US politics lately, where the Dems are galvanizing more towards the middle (through the election of Biden) and the Rs are attempting to gradually escape the the neo-cultist clutches of Trumpism.
And Bernie isn't a Democrat anyway, he's an independent, not sure how that works TBH!
Trump got elected because the US public hated him less than they did Clinton, he didn't transform the Republican party, he just enabled the wackadoos, the rest let him get away with everything because they want to keep their power and lucrative jobs, if they don't they know they'll face primary challenges that they might lose.
He also managed to successfully vilify her with a healthy dose of mysoginy along the way. She of course, didn't help her own cause by presuming Trump's idiocy would surely be his downfall in November, all the while believing the polls that had her well ahead at the time.
Someone from AOC generation might pull it off. It needs a generation substitution IMO. Too much boomers that everything that is remotely sensible with government intervention (Health care, reasonable university fees, gun regulation) is communism. Biden is older than bill clinton. The same generation bar Obama had been ruling US for the last 30 years. And you might still see Biden vs Trump in 2024 to rule till 2028. They need to step aside and seems that only dying would make it happen
Agreed. It would need to be some one from that generation, but i'm not sure if that person has emerged yet. AOC and her friends are viewed as a bit too uninclusively leftist for much of the American center to where she would struggle to connect with non-progressives the way Sanders did. They are going to have to come up with someone else who speaks more in the language of Ro Khanna, who can galvanize progressive policies around mainstream policy discussions that transcend just the Democratic party progressive base. Sanders liked to reach out to Republicans as well, which is something his successor will also need to be good at.
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I’m enjoying the all CAPS truths.
Totally normal.
I'm just waiting for Bragg to somehow do his work a lot faster. I swear American courts are a lot slower than snails and tortoises when it comes to getting indictments and arrest warrants.
I meant relative to Trump of course. I am far from being a fan.
Bragg telling the GOP to do one is top shelf stuff.
He will only meet with them for them to explain what business of theirs it is to demand he explain his case and evidence cause trump, who is being investigated, asked them too.
Bragg fights GOP effort to force his testimony on Trump probe
We all want speed. But, in this instance all these investigations have to be ROCK SOLID damn near impenetrable to be worth it. Look at whats happening to all the DAs investigating now. GOP in the House literally being shameless demanding to see investigative materials DURING the investigation so they can just hand over the cases to trump's team. Before he even gets his indictments. That is crazy.
Not to mention there will be a significant portion of the public that will NEVER back any case against trump regardless of the evidence. And the GOP at large will always say any case is partisan as well. If they bring the case then lose it because of a misstep or rush job that will be a hit on all the others as well.
He will only meet with them for them to explain what business of theirs it is to demand he explain his case and evidence cause trump, who is being investigated, asked them too.
Bragg fights GOP effort to force his testimony on Trump probe
We all want speed. But, in this instance all these investigations have to be ROCK SOLID damn near impenetrable to be worth it. Look at whats happening to all the DAs investigating now. GOP in the House literally being shameless demanding to see investigative materials DURING the investigation so they can just hand over the cases to trump's team. Before he even gets his indictments. That is crazy.
Not to mention there will be a significant portion of the public that will NEVER back any case against trump regardless of the evidence. And the GOP at large will always say any case is partisan as well. If they bring the case then lose it because of a misstep or rush job that will be a hit on all the others as well.
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Gym Jordan at the center of it all. Quelle surprise.
Totally agree. There are a lot of progressives out there and some will emerge as leaders. Ro Khanna is a good shout. The congressional progressive caucus has 100 house members already (but disappointingly no Democrat senate members - Bernie is the only senator in the caucus). As climate change kicks in, more young voters will be drawn to progressives. Voters will eventually realize that only progressive policies will sustain the country.
The other part is that progressives are emerging more and more at local and state level. This is important because state and local government has a big effect on people's lives, in some ways more than federal government.
He's a very worried man.
He'll be making sure of absolutely everything, this is not a case where he can afford to charge and then lose in court
Thursday and nothing. Is hope that kills you
He sounds like a very stable genius.
He's a very worried man.
by transformed do you mean he made it okay for all the bigots and fascists in the party to feel safe about being so in public?And more