Donald Trump - All things impeachment.... | Acquitted in the Senate

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InfiniteBoredom said:
The public saw and heard all that, and per the new Gallup poll, that made them like him even more. Even if we discard that, his approval has stayed steady throughout the process.

Despite protestations to the contrary, half of America couldn’t give less of a shit about the constitution, in their quest to ‘ own da libs’.
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So have his disapprovals. His approval continues to be the 42% range, just as it has for ages. All that proves is the minority of people who support him will still support him no matter what.

Not sure how that translates into a political disaster for Democrats. Especially when the alternative - doing nothing and implicitly excusing his behavior - would do far more damage for them amongst their own supporters. Impeachment was extremely popular among Democrats and supported by a majority of Independents. Beating Trump is going to be driven by increasing turnout among these voter groups, not from following Mitch McConnell's advice.
 
shabadu84 said:
So have his disapprovals. His approval continues to be the 42% range, just as it has for ages. All that proves is the minority of people who support him will still support him no matter what.

Not sure how that translates into a political disaster for Democrats. Especially when the alternative - doing nothing and implicitly excusing his behavior - would do far more damage for them amongst their own supporters. Impeachment was extremely popular among Democrats and supported by a majority of Independents. Beating Trump is going to be driven by increasing turnout among these voter groups, not from following Mitch McConnell's advice.
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A Gallup poll has put his approval rating at 49% and 94% amongst republicans - that his highest since he took office.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/284156/trump-job-approval-personal-best.aspx
 
The Boy said:
A Gallup poll has put his approval rating at 49% and 94% amongst republicans - that his highest since he took office.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/284156/trump-job-approval-personal-best.aspx
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There's also been several done more recently that have him right in the same range as usual. Why all the obsession over a single Gallup poll?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

The people arguing that this was a disaster for the Dems are the same ones who would have ripped them for being spineless if they didn't do it.
 
shabadu84 said:
There's also been several done more recently that have him right in the same range as usual. Why all the obsession over a single Gallup poll?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

The people arguing that this was a disaster for the Dems are the same ones who would have ripped them for being spineless if they didn't do it.
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Just because it is one of the most recent (results announced on the 4th) and events are moving very fast, I can't believe we've had Iowa, SOTU and impeachment result in three days!

You're absolutely right most polls have him around 42-43 also aggreagted from beginning of Feb to the 4th. I follow fivethirtyeight quite closely and that aggregates his approval at 43.4.

I'm certainly not arguing that this was a disaster for the Dems, I don't think they had any real choice, though we all knew the result before proceedings even started. But Gallup have improved since Nate Silver rated them one of the least accurate in 2012, so it is an interesting poll worthy of comment. It will be fascinating to see what the others come out with over the next 2-3 days.
 
Raoul said:
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That was well done. Loved the random 'Bing, bing, bong bong' clip in there :lol:

On another note, Mitt Romney is one million times the man Trump is. I don't buy into the cynical view, that his vote was for personal gain in any way. This could have far reaching consequences for the rest of his career, as well as for the safety of himself and his family. I believe he simply wanted to do the right thing. As someone said, Romney's faith cannot be overstated, and how refreshing it is to see a religious republican actually being guided by his beliefs, even when it is not easy.
I certainly don't agree with the man politically, but I still think his vote should be applauded. At least for the fact, that it will definitely piss off the Donald.
 
Mike Smalling said:
That was well done. Loved the random 'Bing, bing, bong bong' clip in there :lol:

On another note, Mitt Romney is one million times the man Trump is. I don't buy into the cynical view, that his vote was for personal gain in any way. This could have far reaching consequences for the rest of his career, as well as for the safety of himself and his family. I believe he simply wanted to do the right thing. As someone said, Romney's faith cannot be overstated, and how refreshing it is to see a religious republican actually being guided by his beliefs, even when it is not easy.
I certainly don't agree with the man politically, but I still think his vote should be applauded. At least for the fact, that it will definitely piss off the Donald.
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If Bloomberg is smart he would spend about 1 billion replaying some version of this over the next 9 months.
 
If the wig doesn’t fit, you must acquit.

At least the elections are coming soon, it’s this year, right? It would be hilarious if he’ll get a second term though!
 
For a party that claims to be the party of Christ, swearing on the bible didn't mean much.
Pretty sure many of them don't believe in God.
 
I have a keen interesting in American Politics and it makes me sick to the stomach the absolute divide that has been allowed to fester. Everyone involved form the media, to facebook that allows fake news to spread like wildfire, to the political ailes of both parties that are unable to work together.

But above anyone else, Donald J Trump is solely responsible for the utter divide that runs through the nation. He is the person that is elected to lead the country, and he's failed at the one thing he promised in his inguration speech, unifying the nation.

From his inauguration speech, granted of course he didn't write this himself, he doesn't possess the vocabulary, but still: "A new national pride will stir ourselves, lift our sights and heal our divisions."

Well done Donald, the nation has not been as divided since people were allowed to buy and sell other people and a war arose from it. And the GOP willfully allow it. Mitt Romney voting the way he did literally jeopardized his career and public safety by voting with his conscience and conviction. Jeff Flake, despite being unpopular as a politician, has 10 times the backbone of any of the politicians that willfully vote along the party lines.

I'm deeply sorry that so many of the American people willfully forget the things that used to make America good, and choose to abide by nepotism, disregard of the emoluments clause in the constitution, and undermining of the balance of powers, all so they can play cheerleader for a dear leader at any cost.

And of course, the middle east has never been further away from reconciliation, but who cares as long as Jared is on the case.
 
If Trump wins the next election then people will point to the impeachment a key mistake on the Democrats' part. Whether those people will be right or not I have no idea but that will be part of the narrative.
 
groovyalbert said:
And just the boost to his core support groups he needed ahead of re-election.
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How the Democrats ever thought this was a good idea is beyond me, Trump was never gonna be found guilty, EVER and being cleared done nothing but fortify his position. Their thirst to feck Trump has totally clouded what the bigger Democratic picture should have been.
 
Well with that chapter over, what stupid or corrupt thing do we think he will do next. Hopefully something that only mess with America, and leaves the rest of the world alone.
 
InLevyITrust said:
How the Democrats ever thought this was a good idea is beyond me, Trump was never gonna be found guilty, EVER and being cleared done nothing but fortify his position. Their thirst to feck Trump has totally clouded what the bigger Democratic picture should have been.
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Which is what?

Their own base STRONGLY favoured impeachment, and independent voters were more likely than not to favour it. They can say that they did the right thing. Again, they did this to appeal to their own base. They were never going to win over strong Trump supporters. Throughout the process, Trump's approval ratings remained steady so it hasn't really fortified his position. What the Democrats are hoping it will do is mobilise their own base. The idea is probably something like "we can't have another four years of someone who can get away with any and all crimes because his party will protect him".
 
Dargonk said:
Well with that chapter over, what stupid or corrupt thing do we think he will do next. Hopefully something that only mess with America, and leaves the rest of the world alone.
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According to Susan Collins, he has now learned his lesson, so there will be no further issues :wenger:
 
InLevyITrust said:
How the Democrats ever thought this was a good idea is beyond me, Trump was never gonna be found guilty, EVER and being cleared done nothing but fortify his position. Their thirst to feck Trump has totally clouded what the bigger Democratic picture should have been.
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The entire reason for the impeachment was because they knew what Trump was doing in Ukraine and how damaging it was for foreign policy in Ukraine and obviously for Biden and the DNC and their only tool to actually fight it was the impeachment process as it put his actions on record and meant they could carry out official investigations.

It worked.

As soon as Trump got wind that the House was opening investigations which could lead on to impeachment, he released the Ukraine funds and Zelensky has never been forced to make any bogus announcements.

Also when you consider how "damaging" this has been for Democrats, consider the alternative - Trump forced Ukraine to announce (bogus) investigations into Biden and the DNC, they would have had an absolute field day with that leading up to elections and all the "impartial" news sources that independents get their news from would have had no choice but to report it as fact. The impeachment process brought all the evidence out and exposed it for what it was.

Republican's cried rape, Democrats acted quickly to protect their name. Inevitably some people think the Democrats are rapists because that's the nature of rape allegations and Republicans are crying crocodile tears over "victim blaming", but the alternative was for them to be hauled up in a kangaroo court on fabricated rape charges and spend the next year fighting off rape allegations as corrupt courts in Ukraine, spurred on by Russia, release bogus facts and evidences around the case.
 
Siorac said:
Which is what?

Their own base STRONGLY favoured impeachment, and independent voters were more likely than not to favour it. They can say that they did the right thing. Again, they did this to appeal to their own base. They were never going to win over strong Trump supporters. Throughout the process, Trump's approval ratings remained steady so it hasn't really fortified his position. What the Democrats are hoping it will do is mobilise their own base. The idea is probably something like "we can't have another four years of someone who can get away with any and all crimes because his party will protect him".
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Which is to try and win the next election, Trump in my opinion was never going to get found guilty, especially not by the senate. In my opinion this will fortify Trumps position, he faced what the democrats called an open and shut case and did it with ease. While now the Democrats have started their primaries and the first round was an absolute feck up. These are the things that the media focus on and the public mob get interested in.
 
Pexbo said:
The entire reason for the impeachment was because they knew what Trump was doing in Ukraine and how damaging it was for foreign policy in Ukraine and obviously for Biden and the DNC and their only tool to actually fight it was the impeachment process as it put his actions on record and meant they could carry out official investigations.

It worked.

As soon as Trump got wind that the House was opening investigations which could lead on to impeachment, he released the Ukraine funds and Zelensky has never been forced to make any bogus announcements.

Also when you consider how "damaging" this has been for Democrats, consider the alternative - Trump forced Ukraine to announce (bogus) investigations into Biden and the DNC, they would have had an absolute field day with that leading up to elections and all the "impartial" news sources that independents get their news from would have had no choice but to report it as fact. The impeachment process brought all the evidence out and exposed it for what it was.

Republican's cried rape, Democrats acted quickly to protect their name. Inevitably some people think the Democrats are rapists because that's the nature of rape allegations and Republicans are crying crocodile tears over "victim blaming", but the alternative was for them to be hauled up in a kangaroo court on fabricated rape charges and spend the next year fighting off rape allegations as corrupt courts in Ukraine, spurred on by Russia, release bogus facts and evidences around the case.
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I understand all this, but from what I can see, the public perception.... not always the correct one but the one that matters in an election was that this was a victory for Trump.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Which is to try and win the next election, Trump in my opinion was never going to get found guilty, especially not by the senate. In my opinion this will fortify Trumps position, he faced what the democrats called an open and shut case and did it with ease. While now the Democrats have started their primaries and the first round was an absolute feck up. These are the things that the media focus on and the public mob get interested in.
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Which it is! All the crimes and all the evidence have been laid bare, as well as the Republican eagerness to ignore these in favour of "owning the libtards". This plays well among their own base - but again, that is, by all polls and surveys, numerically smaller than the Democrats'. The Democrats' main job isn't to convince people, it's to mobilise them, to convince them to vote. If everyone who voted for Obama had voted for Clinton four years later, she would have won in a landslide.

That the Iowa caucus was going to be a complete PR disaster was not something the Democratic leadership could have foreseen when they decided to pursue impeachment so it's not particularly relevant to whether impeachment was a good idea or not. The real problem is the bitterness developing between the supporters of the main Democrat candidates, and that has nothing to do with impeachment either. But that's the thing that can win the election for Trump: if the defeated major candidates' supporters don't line up behind the nominee.

And for that purpose, the impeachment can come in handy: it can motivate voters to hold their nose and vote for whoever runs against Trump. Because, in his own words, he could shoot someone on 5th avenue, and the Republicans would still support him - this claim is now supported by evidence, and thus Democrats can play the "the stakes have never been higher" card easily.
 
InLevyITrust said:
How the Democrats ever thought this was a good idea is beyond me, Trump was never gonna be found guilty, EVER and being cleared done nothing but fortify his position. Their thirst to feck Trump has totally clouded what the bigger Democratic picture should have been.
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Fortify his position among who?
The GOP are with him, impeachment or not. He isn't more popular among the GOP than he was two months ago.
What message would it have sent to the Dems base if they just let him get on with it?
Forget all that, how about the Congress' constitutional duty?. They should have let a flagrant abuse of power slide with just tweets claiming righteous indignation?
 
Not impeaching him because the Senate is corrupt and wouldn’t convict him would be failing at their jobs.

The problem is, the Dems being the Dems, they managed to fail at doing the right thing by not doing a proper and thorough job in the House and just passing the buck to the Senate which was always going to ignore truth and reason and side with party over country.
 
Siorac said:
Which it is! All the crimes and all the evidence have been laid bare, as well as the Republican eagerness to ignore these in favour of "owning the libtards". This plays well among their own base - but again, that is, by all polls and surveys, numerically smaller than the Democrats'. The Democrats' main job isn't to convince people, it's to mobilise them, to convince them to vote. If everyone who voted for Obama had voted for Clinton four years later, she would have won in a landslide.

That the Iowa caucus was going to be a complete PR disaster was not something the Democratic leadership could have foreseen when they decided to pursue impeachment so it's not particularly relevant to whether impeachment was a good idea or not. The real problem is the bitterness developing between the supporters of the main Democrat candidates, and that has nothing to do with impeachment either. But that's the thing that can win the election for Trump: if the defeated major candidates' supporters don't line up behind the nominee.

And for that purpose, the impeachment can come in handy: it can motivate voters to hold their nose and vote for whoever runs against Trump. Because, in his own words, he could shoot someone on 5th avenue, and the Republicans would still support him - this claim is now supported by evidence, and thus Democrats can play the "the stakes have never been higher" card easily.
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Adisa said:
Fortify his position among who?
The GOP are with him, impeachment or not. He isn't more popular among the GOP than he was two months ago.
What message would it have sent to the Dems base if they just let him get on with it?
Forget all that, how about the Congress' constitutional duty?. They should have let a flagrant abuse of power slide with just tweets claiming righteous indignation?
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Do either of you think he wont get a second term?
 
InLevyITrust said:
I understand all this, but from what I can see, the public perception.... not always the correct one but the one that matters in an election was that this was a victory for Trump.
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The people who consider this a victory for Trump are already part of the initiated.
Anyone that doesn't have their nose up his arsenal can see this for what it is.
Importantly, vulnerable Senate Republicans have casted votes that could well damn them.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Do either of you think he wont get a second term?
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I think he'll get re-elcted. I thought that before the impeachment nonsense.
The odds are stacked against the Dems.
The parry cannot unite behind any candidate and the politics map is difficult. Florida no longer a toss-up. Meaning the Dems have little margin for error in the rust belt. Furthermore, Republicans are just better at getting their people out to vote. The Right usually are better than the left at that sort of thing.
 
Adisa said:
The people who consider this a victory for Trump are already part of the initiated.
Anyone that doesn't have their nose up his arsenal can see this for what it is.
Importantly, vulnerable Senate Republicans have casted votes that could well damn them.
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:D

I know the basics of American politics I will admit that, but I do have relatives in America who are seething at the inability the Democrats have at showing a united front.
 
InLevyITrust said:
I understand all this, but from what I can see, the public perception.... not always the correct one but the one that matters in an election was that this was a victory for Trump.
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That maybe so. But there was literally no scenario where the Democracts could win. If they let it go, foreign policy in Ukraine would have gone to shit and they'd have been destroyed by a bogus corruption allegations. If they impeach him, well here we are.

I think all things considered, they've come out of a shit scenario about as well as they could. Whatever some people might be saying about the Democrats, there is a whole lot worse being said about the way the Republicans handled it.
 
Pexbo said:
That maybe so. But there was literally no scenario where the Democracts could win. If they let it go, foreign policy in Ukraine would have gone to shit and they'd have been destroyed by a bogus corruption allegations. If they impeach him, well here we are.

I think all things considered, they've come out of a shit scenario about as well as they could. Whatever some people might be saying about the Democrats, there is a whole lot worse being said about the way the Republicans handled it.
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Thanks, There is a lot more knowledge on here than in my head so good to get different views.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Do either of you think he wont get a second term?
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With how polarised the US is, it's going to be an incredibly close call. Hillary would have needed about a 100,000 extra votes over three states to win the election. That's a 0.09 percent margin.

All the opinion polls in the predicted swing states are very close (Trump vs the leading Democratic candidates). The Democratic candidate will, again, receive more votes overall than Trump. The question is: can the party convince its base to line up behind whoever wins the nomination? Because if BernieBros refuse to vote for Biden, or Biden's base is uncomfortable with a "radical" then yeah, Trump wins (same goes for the other major candidates). But honestly, at this point it's just impossible to call really. Those who are absolutely certain of a Trump victory are either his die-hard supporters or just total pessimists.
 
Rado_N said:
Not impeaching him because the Senate is corrupt and wouldn’t convict him would be failing at their jobs.

The problem is, the Dems being the Dems, they managed to fail at doing the right thing by not doing a proper and thorough job in the House and just passing the buck to the Senate which was always going to ignore truth and reason and side with party over country.
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I get this argument but the Supreme Court showed no intention of hearing these cases quickly.
 
The only thing better they could have done was call the other relevant witnesses in the House. But that would have delayed things into election season too much with having to go through the courts so I get why they sent it to the Senate to do.
 
Adisa said:
I get this argument but the Supreme Court showed no intention of hearing these cases quickly.
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Exactly, Trump would have taken each subpoena to the lowest possible court and asked one of the judges he picked to review it and they wouldn't have approved the subpoena after sitting on it for a couple of months. Which would then allow Trump to control the appeal and he would have taken it to the next highest court and asked one of his judges to review it, they would approve it after sitting on it for a couple of months and.... slow walked over the next year right the way up to the Supreme Court.


Now the narrative is "why are they dragging this impeachment? it's a political move, it reflects badly on them. People are sick of it and just want it over and done with. Nobody cares."
 
DVG7 said:
He’s serious. And he’s a very smart guy. I don’t know enough about it to comment on the legality or seriousness of it, but he sees a second term turning into something much, much worse.
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Trump/GOP will certainly do everything in their power to make it happen, so its not a crazy line of thought. It will be more difficult than it was for Putin I guess, but then they have Putins full support.
 
Grassley and Johnson now requesting travel docs from the secret service on Hunter Biden. Remember, a private citizen who holds no position in government. We've come full circle and are now a legitimate autocracy where the president has complete control over the legislative branch.
 
Redplane said:
Grassley and Johnson now requesting travel docs from the secret service on Hunter Biden. Remember, a private citizen who holds no position in government. We've come full circle and are now a legitimate autocracy where the president has complete control over the legislative branch.
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1. Bidens being investigated helps Bernard get the nomination.
2. Sanders defeats Trump
3. "Thank you Donald" becomes an unironic meme.
 
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