Rumours are Jamie Carragher needs to wear a mask and implement the 2m social distancing rule before pronouncing his name.
Dominik Szoboszlai
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I don’t know if that’s the reason why he’s leaving nor do I think Amorim is taking over an average team (they’re level with Arsenal after all) but at the same time I do agree that Klopp / Liverpool committee’s rebuild hasn’t been that good. From the position Liverpool were in a couple of years ago, they needed to add some proper top class talent and many that they’ve added are merely good.
Insanely low bar you've gone for there
I think they are level with Arsenal because of their manager, but his growing influence over transfers has fecked them. From the Liverpool team, who gets on for Arsenal?
TAA possibly, but White is a much better defender. Mac Allister in midfield, maybe? Alisson in goal is the only nailed choice based on how everyone is playing this season.
Nunez, Gakpo, Big Dom are just good/average, as you say, VVD and Salah have started their decline, Jota/Konate can’t stay fit and the rest is a bunch of OK players.
Klopp is squeezing everything out of them, but they just haven’t bought well. Arsenal and City’s squads are far superior now and Liverpool have wasted money.
I can’t see anything but a severe drop-off when he goes. Those off seasons will become the norm.
Fact that this thread has been non-existent between now and the end of September tells you all you need to know about his season.
Started off great, looked like a perfect fit alongside Mac Allister, now struggling a bit after injury. Only 23 years old, he'll be just fine long-term.
Started off great, looked like a perfect fit alongside Mac Allister, now struggling a bit after injury. Only 23 years old, he'll be just fine long-term.
Are you telling me Salah (17G-9A in 25 games) wouldn't get in ahead of even Saka (14G-8A in 29 games) then? All objectivity goes out of the window if you're arguing something like that. Alisson, TAA, Van Dijk, Robertson, Salah, Nunez would all get in their starting XI.
For everyone saying we should've bought superstars and we've merely added "good players", that's always been our MO. None of Mane, Firmino, Salah, Torres, Suarez were superstars when we bought them, we just don't attract top class players, even when we're doing well. In recent years there haven't been many players available that we realistically could've gotten, simple as. The likes of Mbappe, Alaba, Bellingham are going to Madrid instead of North-West England.
Konate is close to Saliba (confirmed by their appearances for France)
Rice is a stellar signing for Arsenal but I believe Caicedo could've made a similar impact for us, just didn't work out
Mac Allister is one of the signings of the season for me
Szoboszlai is 23 years old and has had a just fine season for his first one in the PL
Nunez was like 22 when we bought him and had (still has) lots of untapped potential, still would rather have him than Gabriel Jesus
Luis Diaz is a better player than Leandro Trossard
But people are going on like we should've recruited like Madrid did this last few years, while that was never a realistic scenario anyway.
Van Dijk wouldn't get in. Konate isn't close to Saliba and Diaz isn't better than Trossard or Martinelli.
You've some fair points here. I think Liverpool's potential decline is massively exaggerated, you're second in the league and still very much challenging this season after finishing outside the top four last season.
By any metric, especially with the injury problems you've had, that's sign of progress rather than decline.
People point to it being down to the manager, which is fair enough, but you had the same manager last season when you didn't make the top four.
Players like Salah, Alisson, VVD and Mac Allister would walk straight into 99.9 per cent of starting line-ups.
Nunez and Luis Diaz are top-tier attackers on their day too.
The real questions will come when the team has to transition away from the likes of VVD and Salah but at the minute there remains much to be positive about for Liverpool fans... sadly as a United fan.
That’s the 1 thing that has surprised me the most, his shooting was that good previously that in a dominant Klopp Liverpool team, I was expecting a 10 league goal a season midfielder. It is his first season mind you, maybe that will come, we know he at least has the technique for it.
I never mentioned Martinelli. Van Dijk is better than both Saliba and Gabriel, and I do think Diaz is better than Trossard.
Thanks for your opinion though!
That's why I'd be in favor of selling Salah and Van Dijk, and getting a shitload of money like with the Coutinho sale, to get the new manager a few of his own players, rather than trying to build on what Klopp has accomplished at Liverpool which is an impossable task either way.
The core is still young and good enough to compete for several more years (average age of TAA, Konate, Robertson, Mac Allister, Szoboszlai and Nunez will be something like 25 at the start of next season). There's absolutely no guarantee that we will compete for the league, especially since we'd be up against Pep's City and an Arsenal team playing under the same capable manager with the same players for several years in a row. That's not my expectation, I just want to see like in the beginning of the Klopp days that the new manager is building his own team, doing his own thing, implementing his own ideas, and that we're working towards something together as a club. Klopp's early days weren't all that but there were signs of improvement and there was hope. I'd be fine if next season shows something similar.
The only thing with that is it was easier to judge if there were signs of improvement under Klopp considering the level you were when he took over. How do you judge signs of improvement if the levels are actually dropping from the previous manager?
Hey, it's a game of opinions after all
Yeah that's a fair point. I guess just properly recognizing the new manager's own style rather than trying to continue a weak spin-off of Klopp's football and tactics.
You don't know which players would get in their starting XI. Arsenal use 4 CBs these days, like City do. I don't see Arteta dropping White for Trent, no matter how much of a creativity machine from RB the latter is. Same with Robertson, to a lesser extent. They'd have to tweak their setup to make space for them, which they might do if it wasn't a hypothetical discussion, but their current system is a bit different IMO.
Alisson, Salah, and van Dijk are getting in the Arsenal XI no matter what the system is. For Trent, Robertson and Nunez, it depends.
Konaté isn't close to Saliba either. The latter and van Dijk are by far the two best CBs in the Premier League currently, but VVD is the best one for me as well. However, Saliba vs van Dijk is a much more appropriate discussion, than Saliba vs Konaté.
I do agree with some of your points, however. Mac Allister, Szoboszlai and Nunez are all good players and good fits for Liverpool, and fit your "MO" as you described it. Caicedo would've been a big help in your title challenge as well.
IMO, The 4 players you can't adequately replace, however, are Salah, van Dijk, Trent, and Alisson. When the first two leave, I'm pretty sure you'll have to replace them indirectly or directly with much inferior profiles.
PS: This isn't meant as a dig, but I do think a better-run United and current City could be able to attract the likes of Alaba, Bellingham, and maybe even Mbappé. I feel like Liverpool don't have nearly as much "pull" as they should on paper, for a club of their size, even during the Klopp era.
I think their biggest weakness has been Klopp in the past few weeks. They either go down in games or if they get ahead like against United, they switch off. There is some sort of lack of professionalism that has crept into the team. Also Elliott is arguably been their best player in 2024, workrate or goal threat. That he took him off yesterday was totally nuts. I don´t know what´s going on between him and Klopp, but I think he´ll have a major breakout season next year 10G + 10A.
City, perhaps. United, no imo. When was the last time you were able to attract a genuine world-class player in his prime? Perhaps Sancho but I'd rather describe him as up-and-coming next big thing than world-class superstar already by then. Cavani, Varane, Casemiro, Ronaldo, Alexis, Ibrahimovic, Schweinsteiger all on the wrong side of 30 or over their prime. I'd say Pogba in 2016 and then Di Maria which is 10 years ago while you were riding on the coattails of SAF's reign.
But agree with your general sentiment that Liverpool doesn't have as much pullas we should on paper. You'd think we could basically entice every manager on the planet with the vacancy right now if you look at the state of the team and how we adore a manager who's successfull and respectful towards the club, but even managers of Sporting and Leverkusen aren't jumping at the chance. For different reasons and understandably so, perhaps, but still. Someone like De Zerbi would be a very, very underwhelming signing for me.
No idea why Van Dijk is an automatic into Arsenal's team. Gabriel has been fantastic.
On paper, he seems great. Tall, strong, fast, has great shooting ability, crosses well, dead ball specialist and has a great eye for goal. A perfect fit for the PL and almost like a poor man's Kevin De Bruyne(which is a big compliment).
But lately, he has been inconsistent and irresponsible. Could be due to the injuries and lack of match-fitness and rhythm.
Too early to call him average, a flop or a success but my gut feeling says he's really good. His performances at the start of the season were brilliant. I think he's a naturally talented player and not just a system player so he'll be good.
But lately, he has been inconsistent and irresponsible. Could be due to the injuries and lack of match-fitness and rhythm.
Too early to call him average, a flop or a success but my gut feeling says he's really good. His performances at the start of the season were brilliant. I think he's a naturally talented player and not just a system player so he'll be good.
Nah.
Yeah — that he hasn’t been very good. Otherwise there’d be sanctimonious “wowzers, only 700m Forint for this guy?” from that horrid Liverpool poster
I said a "better run" United could, meaning that we'd probably be good on the pitch in that scenario. And that club would be more attractive than current City.
Pogba is the only good example from the players you listed IMO, but that was also partly because of his past with United.
Also, I'm not saying we can be more attractive than Real Madrid. Them and Barcelona are usually in a league of their own. However, we can rival their greatness if we become good again. I didn't see that with Klopp's Liverpool. However, it probably saved you from a few expensive mistakes, if we look at how most of the biggest transfers have turned out in the last 10 years.
It's somewhat of a pointless discussion anyways, since for every player it's a different situation. I don't think we could rival Barcelona or Madrid for a 21 year old Neymar even if were the best team in the world. However, I do think we would've been difficult to turn down for Bellingham if we had just won the treble and were the best team in the world last season...or Haaland in 2022. City are incredibly attractive currently from a sporting perspective, but we have the name and history as well, which they don't.
The same logic goes for managers as well IMO. Let's be honest, Amorim will probably jump at the chance of being Liverpool manager after Sporting's season concludes. Alonso might not have left Leverkusen this summer, no matter what, even if Madrid wanted him. It's not certain.
RDZ could be a good appointment IMO for most teams looking (potentially, in our case) for a manager. Us, Liverpool, Barcelona, etc.
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It was, few seconds, waved through as finewhy wasn’t that checked by VAR? Or was it?
This season? Saka is way better to have in the squad than an aging Salah. If you offered them both to PL clubs tomorrow, they would all be taking Saka. Salah’s next move is Saudi and he is the best player at the club by a distance.
Saliba is on another level to Konate and the latter can’t stay fit. It’s just my opinion that these issues will become far more visible once Klopp leaves. The team isn’t a patch on the prior team.
I don’t think Arsenal would be going for any of those names you mentioned, bar Alisson.
In what position? He's not better than Mainoo, Bruno or Mount. Can he play as a 6?
MEH.
He never spat at that kid he just was telling them about Slobzsplbolai
Why wouldn't Van Dijk get in? The only reason I can think of is the Saliba/Gabriel partnership being elite but individually Van Dijk is better than both of them. If I was to rank the 4 CBs, I'd rank them;
Van Dijk
Saliba
Konate
Gabriel
But Arsenal pair is probably the best partnership in Europe.
If would start Diaz over Trossard definitely. Martinelli isn't having the best of seasons, but at his best, I'd take him over Diaz.
Better at backing off from his opponent and making sure he doesn't have any defending to do for sure.
I genuinely think that both of the Arsenal centre backs are better than Van Dijk. Gabriel is very underrated for some reason. It's not as good obviously, but it reminds me a little of the Ferdinand - Vidic partnership.
The Diaz/Trossard comparison is quite unfair anyway really because Diaz is supposed to be a starter, where as Trossard is a great bench option to have.
Going from “wouldn’t get into their starting XI” to “don’t think Arsenal would be going for them” is just shifting goalposts, totally different discussion.
It’s not. Arsenal’s squad is way better than Liverpool’s and their best players are under 25, whereas Liverpool’s are over 30. They also have more money to spend and greater flexibility in the market.
Klopp took shots that haven’t come off and he knows it. That’s why he is off.
I would be starting Saka ahead of Salah on this seasons form, no goalposts moved. Gabriel/Saliba is the best partnership in the league, so I wouldn’t be starting Van Dijk.
I would have Mac Allister as a partner for Rice, Alisson in goal, and that’s it.
Alisson gets in, no questioned asked. Salah is a conundrum because he’s still brilliant but at the same time, no team takes Salah over Saka because they are at opposite ends of their careers, and Saka is so good that you wouldn’t miss Salah.
Robertson likely gets in at left back because I don’t love Arsenal’s options there, although Kiwior has been pretty solid.
White plays over Trent because he’s ten times the defender TAA is, even if he doesn’t have his wand of a right foot. Van Dijk is still individually good but you don’t break up the Gabriel/Saliba partnership, and this has to be looked at holistically, so there’s no place in the team for him.
I can see a shout for Diaz. He’s a dynamo and has plenty of quality. Martinelli at his best is as good or better in my opinion, but he’s not had a great season, so a solid argument for Diaz there. A player I appreciate plenty.
I think Mac Allister has an argument to partner Rice and Odegaard in CM, and would be my preferred trio from the combination of the squads. Nunez would get plenty of game time instead of Havertz but is a different option altogether
All in all, I lean heavily in favour of Arsenal’s line up. One might take Diaz over Martinelli or Nunez over Jesus but it’s marginal. Elsewhere, the only dead certs to get in their team for me, is Mac Allister, Robertson and Alisson. I don’t see any rational manager taking Salah over Saka given their ages and current levels, nor do I see anyone breaking up one of the best defensive pairings in Europe for a nearly 33 year old Van Dijk. Trent, for all his qualities, is miles behind White in terms of his defensive prowess.
Even Robertson, who I put as a shoe in, isn’t as clear cut as I made it. In terms of squad building, no one would take a 30 year old Robertson over a 24 year old Kiwior, who can also play CB and probably suits the way Arsenal play better. I’ve only included him for the short term performance. If this was about actual squad building, then I’d keep Kiwior.
Diaz is first choice rw? So then he needs to be compared to Martinelli, Arsenal’s first choice rw. Saka vs Salah os a tough one… Salah still shades it for me. A couple of seasons ago Salah and it’s not close.
Not sure I’d put vvd ahead of Saliba. I’d probably have both. Robertson, the cheating, disgusting fecker, would get into the combined xi. Still declined?
World class they said
Combined side for me would be;
Allison
White - Saliba - Van Dijk - Robertson
Rice
MacAllister - Odegaard
Saka - Salah - Nunez
White - Saliba - Van Dijk - Robertson
Rice
MacAllister - Odegaard
Saka - Salah - Nunez
Did not expect such an unbiased post here. Could not agree more.
You would say that, Mr 'Neutral' who happens to heap lavish praise onto Van Dijk after every decent performance.
It's hilarious that all the so-called "neutral" fans on here always seem to be involved in constantly praising rival players.