Does anyone have doubts that a new manager will be able to fix this?

We’re too far down the road to be convinced of a chance of just the manager. A lot more needs to be in place for us to finally restore a healthy culture throughout the club.

The problem is the amount of factors having to hit it off simultaniously:
- The right structure needs to be in place in terms of recruitment and backing the manager in every other way, while making sure we are heading in the right direction.
- The manager needs to hit the ground running and have the character to build confidence, structure and discipline into the squad.
- The players need to step up and follow the manager. A new hierarchy needs to be build.

I just hope the new management knows what they are doing, and that they will be the factor that will prove the former managements role in our demise wrong.
On top of that, I cross my fingers for the new manager to be able to form a unit, and hopefully turn it around for some of our derailed players. We can’t afford to buy a new team.
 
Todd said:
You have to consider the true talent level of the squad regardless of the manager and come up with a reasonable expectation, right?

You could put Pep or Ancelotti in charge of Everton and there's still a limit to how high Everton can finish because their true talent level would preclude anything beyond it.

Is our true talent level 14th, of course not, but is it first or second or third, no.

The right manager might get this squad to fifth if everything goes right and things go wrong at other clubs.

If our aspirations are higher then we need better players.
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That's how i feel considering our attack.
 
Well I am 100% sure it won't get worse. ETH was losing it completely in the end.
 
New manager bounce for the rest of the season with us dropping off in the last few games, and then same story next season, with us spending a load more money along the way I reckon.

I just put this tweet in the other thread, whilst it was a joke they were bang on and Amorim could be our next victim!

 
Lentwood said:
If the question is "will a new manager definitely fix all of our issues?" then clearly nobody can be sure...but that doesn't mean we need to look at this as anything other than a big positive step.

Remember, Ashworth and Berrada only officially started in June. Imagine if the first thing they did once officially in their new positions was to sack a manager who had just won the FA Cup and was experiencing a major upturn in popularity amongst the fanbase (largely thanks for most of them only being able to form an opinion based on the last game that was played).

The FA Cup win vs City was an all-time top football moment for me, and I have seen United win everything...but let's face it, EtH was appalling
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Wait, what? You okay? Or there's white text somewhere which I missed?
 
JanK said:
Wait, what? You okay? Or there's white text somewhere which I missed?
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I know United fans who have been going since the early 60s and literally seen us win everything multiple times. They all say that the cup final against the divs was a top 10 moment for them.
 
Major doubts

Anyone who doesn't is deluded, we've had world class managers who have struggled.
 
A new manager won't suddenly get us a functioning midfield with the players we've signed or get our players magically converting the numerous chances they're spurning.

Maybe we're doomed to lurch between a great counter attacking side and a shit team trying to dominate possession.
 
How could anyone not have doubts after 11 years of false dawns?

I refuse to hope until there’s a full season’s worth of positive progress, and even then I’ll be guarded.
 
Lentwood said:
because we had an appalling manager who's system was so ludicrously complex and ugly, it made it impossible for the players.
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It wasn't impossible for the players because of the system, they just can't score. That's on them. Truth is Ten Hag was a bad fit for these players and these players aren't good enough. Ten Hag will do alright somewhere else, these players will do a bit better here with a bit of confidence but will get found out every time we play a top side.
 
Let’s be honest, he isn’t fixing this overnight but I just hope we are getting a manager who shows signs of even gradual progress. It seems we have had 3 years (probably 10 or 11 to be fair) of drifting along with no real structure, no identity and no progress.
 
Not right away no because our recruitment has been shambolic. We have one fit full-back! And exactly two midfielders who can pass a football and one forward who can finish but has terrible movement.
 
Blood Mage said:
Not right away no because our recruitment has been shambolic. We have one fit full-back! And exactly two midfielders who can pass a football and one forward who can finish but has terrible movement.
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And our best paid attacker, with the most pedigree, blows hot and cold.
 
Good leadership is the rarest and most important quality in any team, if you can get that right and you are 90% of the way to success. The rest is down to tactics, personnel and a bit of luck.

So yes if we get a coach with world class leadership qualities I think this can be 'fixed', ie. not stinking Old Trafford out every week, relatively quickly. Challenging for the title would take 2-3 excellent transfer windows I think.
 
Hightower said:
Major doubts

Anyone who doesn't is deluded, we've had world class managers who have struggled.
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Mourinho is the only world class manager we've hired since Fergie and even he was past his peak to be fair.
 
It depends what is meant by 'fixing' the situation. Even with a really competent manager, I don't think we're top four material just now, never mind a title run. I just don't think we have enough real top quality players compared to the teams that will ultimately end up in those positions, especially in forward areas.

Even Tottenham and Villa have a couple of players I think are levels above what we have avaliable to us. We're probably about on a par with those clubs overall, Villa are superbly coached though and Tottenham I think only battered us because we had an awful manager.

We just don't have the quality to touch that top four which in my opinion will likely be City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. However, I would expect a decent manager to give the players more belief and our baseline performance level to be much higher, we should be in and around a top 6 spot until we can hopefully get a few more top players in.

We'll likely still struggle for goals under any new manager due to the limited abilities of many of our attacking players, but I do feel that if they can get a tune out of Rashford, Bruno and Garnacho, there should be enough there to win a decent amount of games.
 
Turning this around isn’t going to be easy.
Whoever takes this job on, it’s going to take a while to stabilise our performances, before any real improvement can happen.
There’s no guarantee we’ll see a new manager bounce, especially looking at what he has to work with.
I have a feeling any bounce will be relatively flimsy and short lived.

Just look at the immediate short term.
Our next league game at home to Chelsea is vital.
Lose that and if Everton and Leicester win their games this weekend, we will be in 16th place, with a mountain to climb.

The following 3 games should be some of the easiest fixtures on paper, but we know how that’s worked out recently.
After that, we are away to Arsenal, City and Liverpool in just over a 4 week period, interspersed with some tricky fixtures.
Even with an improvement in our performances, I can easily see us still stuck in the bottom half of the table come January.

Our chance of starting a recovery this season, went with the West Ham result.
Had we won that, we’d now be just 4 points behind Arsenal and Villa who currently occupy 3rd and 4th place !
We are in a much worst place now, for the sake of those 3 lost points.
A failure to win against Chelsea will make the new manager’s task all the harder in the short term and set back any longer term chance of turning our fortunes around this season.
A top 6 finish will be an achievement, provided we can see a blueprint for where the new man can take us next season and beyond.
 
I think any new manager can fix things that the previous manager couldn't, but as I've been pointing out in the Amorim thread, that won't happen overnight.

It's fine to talk about new tactics and formations, but the fact remains, whoever is brought in is playing with a team they didn't build. It still takes time.
Yes, you can get new manager bounce we've all seen that over the years, but turning shit players into good ones won't happen for every player United currently have. It might improve some but it might also mean some players who were OK under the previous manager are now surplus to requirement under the new one.

So yes, a new manager can turn things around just don't expect prime Barca before Christmas.
 
Whilst tuning us into title contenders short term is incredibly unlikely we've been flogging such a shambolic system for so long that I absolutely believe anyone that comes in and takes us back to basics will immediately see an up turn.

Not unlike Ole coming in and improving the squads mood following Mous poisonous regime I think some simple instructions, round pegs in round holes, win your battles, no nonsense type stuff will work wonders short term and we can build the style from there

Our confidence has been absolutely shot to pieces over the past 12 mths - a focus back on the simple things will go a long way imo
 
Raoul said:
It will be fixed imo. This is doubly true given that the two central sources of our problems - lack of a DOF/executive football structure, and a manager capable of working within said structure, have been addressed. Whoever manages us next will have to be comfortable with the fact that the CEO, Sporting and Technical Directors will also have say in transfers and beyond.
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However wasn’t Zirkzee an Ashworth/Wilcox signing? I still don’t know why we need those two, one of them yes but what exactly do they do? Why do we need both of them?
Oh and what exactly does Zirkzee do?
 
JanK said:
Wait, what? You okay? Or there's white text somewhere which I missed?
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What he is saying that no body could see Utd beating City that day. City were 1-10 on to win Utd I think we’re 4-1 to win it.
4-1 in a two horse race, I’ve never seen odds like that in a big match.
It was a great unexpected win and very enjoyable, no one can take that memory away and I for one will remember that unexpected win for a long time. It was similar to when Tommy Docherty took us to Wembley twice in the 70’s the second time was when we beat Liverpool who would have won the treble had we not won that day.
 
Perhaps I’m not as soured as some of the more veteran posters, perhaps I’m just naive, but really I am quite optimistic.

We are I so much of a better position compared to when EtH was appointed.

We have the right management structure and decent leadership.
We have a much better squad compared to the team EtH started and largely worked with during his tenure.
Performance-wise we have hit absolute rock-bottom. He can’t do worse, can he? With expectations this low, it will give him less pressure to shape his team and style of play.

The only uncertainty is if he can prevent losing all of his coaching ability as soon as he signs for us, like his 5 or so predecessors..
 
The squad is in a much better place than when ETH first arrived. He was let down by injuries in key areas and just when it looks like a full squad is weeks away, he gets the sack. The new manager will get a decent squad with fully fit players and look like a genius.
 
Superden said:
Our first actual proper world class coach since fergie left.
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I think you have to win the league in Italy, Spain, Germany or England to be truly world class as a coach. He’s an emerging world class coach but his United career will define if he’s world class or not?
 
Hightower said:
Major doubts

Anyone who doesn't is deluded, we've had world class managers who have struggled.
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We haven't had a world class manager since SAF.

Moyes was a sound Premier League manager, never won anything, nowhere near World Class.
LVG has the allure and stature and has managed at a high level - not a world class manager when we hired him.
Jose was on a downward spiral long before we hired him - awful appointment.
Ralf is/was a DOF with a brilliant football mind but nowhere near a competent club level manager
Ole was raw, unproven and inexperienced at the highest level
ETH was the most exciting managerial appointment we've made - a modern thinking coach with a good record, but still not in the world class bracket.

We've made one good managerial appointment in 11 years. Failure has stemmed from the top at our club.
 
ETH inherited a broken squad, full of several managers worth of poor decision after poor decision.

He had a monumental task to rebuild the squad, put that in with an upper level management team of Woodward and co and he was always going to struggle to fully implement what he wanted to do. He then had the Ronaldo dilemma, the Maguire arrest and the Sancho drama coupled with the most horrendous injury record i've known us to have.

I feel for ETH slightly - while he has made some odd decisions and the football hasn't been great, I feel the small margins and the intense media scrutiny on him has done him in.

Even if ETH had a fully fit squad - I don't think we're quite capable of top 4 as we just cannot be consistent at all.

Im looking forward to the new manager bounce and we will see improvement, and this is a new slate for us - the "best in class" are in post upstairs, renewed optimism and right or wrong we are looking to hire one of the most sought after managers in Europe.

I had similar optimism for ETH - i think we forget how highly regarded he was when we were linked to him. ETH was the hottest manager in Europe at the time. So lets not get carried away. If Amorin succeeds, it's due to the club being in a better state upstairs as much as anything.

Amorin inherits a squad littered with problems and bad attitude. So we shall see.

Fitness is still a big worry. Shaw, Martinez, Mount, Malacia just cant seem to stay fit.
Inconsistency - this is the worst attribute of too many of our players and it's hard to believe that half of these lot can turn they're mindset around. Rashford and Bruno by far the wort culprits here.

Garnacho and Amad need to string some performances together and start playing with freedom. Anthony needs to do something, Ugarte needs to dominate that midfield. Dalot needs to get his head out of his arse.

We have some good talent in this squad - just an absolute terrible workrate and application. We look like a team afraid to play with confidence. No pride in personal performance, no accountability and no winning personality.

Another manager gone and ridiculed, the shameless players remain making this club a laughing stock.
 
Given that most of the managers since SAF, have failed at doing what they should've been doing, statistically, the next manager who arrives will also fail.
So yes, I expect the new manager to fail.

In reality, all I want to see is this next manager last 2.5 years and during that time, he should deliver trophies, but also take us up the league table. At this stage, I'm not fussed about the style of football, simply because we are in 14th place and it would be unreasonable to expect great style, league-winning form and cavalier attacking football.

If the current manager does well and stays into the 4th year - by then, I'd expect results, league position, trophies (finals and trophy wins) as well as good attacking football.
 
I think he has advantage over past appointments in the fact he is joining in Oct. He gets to judge the squad over a good few months as opposed to a 6 week pre-season where sometimes players dont show up till early August after an international tournament. There wont be panic buys like Casemiro or Antony after a bad result like August 2022 that could end up being a milestone round his neck. He also has much better guys above him that previous managers.

Plus CL qualification is already a bit of a long shot so missing out won't put be the end of the world for him. This season is a bit of a free hit for him.
 
Player exits will play an absolutely crucial role here. This has been the case in the past but it's at a tipping point now IMO. The players at the forefront of the club (we all know who they are) have now played for three managers and have not proven themselves to be good enough from a mentality point of view to be at the forefront of this club. Thank about who the players at the forefront of the club were under Fergie and compare them to their current counterparts. If you look at Arteta at Arsenal, something that rarely gets talked about is how ruthless they were in getting rid of some of their more prominent players in order to be able to reset the dressing room and the culture at the club. That needs to happen at United.
 
My only doubts are the fact Amorim hasn't managed in one of the top 5 leagues, the last manager who was successful despite that is Mourinho
 
Majority of the players are this club are like cavities now. How much ever you change your toothpaste and toothbrush, nothing is going to improve till you visit the dentist and fix the main issue. Kick them out.

One of the highest paid players at United is Rashford, a couple of decent games and PR gets engaged, lazy players like Sancho use social media to cause ruckus, B grade players like Dalot are seen as great players when they put in a shift against teams like Forest or West Ham and shit the bed against City and Liverpool.

I am one of the most vocal supporters of Bruno and now i am also at the end of the rope with his performances. He is a great guy and a great players, possibly at the wrong time at the club with so many glaring holes. He is just the midfield version of RvN.

At least RvN managed to win the league and was a legend in the CL for United.

We also have brought poorly this season based on how they new players are bedding in. So even with the supposedly right structure, we still suck :lol:

The players have no concept of fighting spirit. The managers can train them, bring in psychologists, speak to them one on one and all that, but if the players cannot improve no manager can fix this club.

Washed up players coming in for their last contracts, prima donna players throwing a fit all make United a joke of a club.

This new manager will also go back with his tail between his legs. Nothing will change at this club when we have let player power get so big.

Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole, Ralf,ETH and now the new manager. That's 7 managers in 11 season since Fergie and we still have Rashford and Shaw playing at a similar level when they started at this club in 2015.

Feck, had very high hopes that ETH was the one. Prior to the start of this season, had huge hopes on correcting the course and playing some decent football along with some good wins. All down the drain.

The more i look at it, this media circus is why United will never get to the top again. Toxic player inside jokes, tears on social media when dropped, undermining the manager at every step, managers making blunders by giving these players chances after chances instead of looking at players who have performed decently.

After more than a quarter of a century of Focus, Determination, Passion for the club to do well from Fergie, we are in a free fall as if the club just came became a teenager and went to the dark side with drugs and we are at the overdose stage.

Vibes FC in full swing. Feck you Liverpool.
 
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