Do you believe Ronaldo is finished as a top level player?

Well...

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ROFLUTION said:
Nah. If. you look at Scholes, Xavi, Giggs, Laudrup, Ronaldinho, etc, all the big players still got the technical abilities at the end of their careers too. It was the pace, fitness or in rare cases (Ronaldinho) motivation that made them retire.

Only if the motivation and head is not there, Ronaldo is done. Right now his head is not in the right place, but that can be fixed - He's probably been the player with the most focus in decades, so he'll turn it around somehow with time imo. The mess United has been in, can get to the very best, it's that simple. Maybe a change of scenes will do him better.
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A weird set of players to compare him to. And Cristiano has been losing technical abilities for like a decade at quite a drastic rate. First it was dribbling, then it was passing and hold up play. Even his touch looks uncharacteristically heavy those past few years. He still has shooting & heading but that's about it (and since he had been in a horrible form this season even his shooting looks off but it will come back).
 
I think Ronaldo suits a team where the foundation of the squad is already established and he is just added in to include goals. For a new manager looking to change the philosophy and raise the standards to compete I think Ronaldo is the wrong fit.

Don't doubt his quality as a player with momentum and form he gets goals no doubts about it but he's not the profile of player United need to move forward.
 
The Firestarter said:
When will the "lack of preseason" narrative stop to be pushed as a justification for what we're seeing? We are a month and a half into the season already.
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A lack of preseason isn't something that is easily compensated throughout the actual season, it's not just the game time. It is certainly a huge part of his current struggles, the only thing is — it's not an excuse because it was Cristiano himself who had chosen not to have it.
 
harms said:
A lack of preseason isn't something that is easily compensated throughout the actual season, it's not just the game time. It is certainly a huge part of his current struggles, the only thing is — it's not an excuse because it was Cristiano himself who had chosen not to have it.
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The question is would he be in the same state if he had a pre season, apart from physical fitness? Some of the problems he is having he had in large parts of last season as well. Widely inaccurate shots, misplaced passes etc.
 
Obviously. This might be the last contract he ever gets in a top 5 league unless he's seriously willing to take a huge paycut.
 
There's a reason why Chelsea, Napoli, Juve, PSG, Madrid, Barca, Atletico and even Sporting wouldn't go near him with a bargepole - he's is done.

The initial signing was made purely to stop him from joining City - but it's backfired spectacularly as Haaland notches up record-breaking numbers and we're left with a shadow of the player. In fact, it couldn't have gone any worse for us.
 
justsomebloke said:
It's too early to tell. He's only had a couple of starts, and didn't have a preseason. It's entirely possible, even likely, that he's still rusty and that he's going to get better with more playing time. But he sure isn't looking like much right now. Not very good when he tries to participate in build-up play either.
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He came back to Carrington nearly two months ago, you'd think that would be plenty of time for a pro footballer no matter how old they are to find their touch and get rid of any rust.
 
Rojofiam said:
Bullshit. We dropped 8 points in the last 4 games, because they didn't matter anymore. Second place was very likely in the bag already whilst City couldn't be caught anymore. If we still had something to fight for, we never lose to Leicester, very likely don't lose to Liverpool and beat Fulham comfortably.

That season we were easily an 80 point team, which is impressive given that the summer before that we got in players pretty late, and the only player that really helped us was just Cavani anyways. Telles' biggest use was lighting a fire under Shaw's ass, Amad & Pellistri didn't play, and neither did van de Beek. And don't forget how bad the season started with Spurs and Palace at home.

People downplay our second place but you can just as easily make an argument for it being a pretty impressing showing overall.
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No, Liverpool bounced back to a 90 point plus team when they had their defenders back the following season. We were only second through that. Maybe have a look at the tables and Pool's pointn totals before our second spot and after and see it was a token second place. Chelsea were midtable tanking with Lampard as manager, once Tuchel took over they were one of the form teams by the end. I could see they would start the next season the same so yes it was unusual circumstances and a low points haul that could achieve second. I predicted the start of last season during the season before as City Pool and Chelsea were flying, normal service was being resumed and we were never going to get close to a second place.

The following season should tell you even more how hollow the second place was. The football in that second place season was also unsustainable, it was comeback after come back after conceding, with short bursts of goals in 5-10 mins spells while playing awful for most of it. Not surprising it all came undone last season and we finished 6th. That's why it's a net 4th in reality and couldn't be held on to.
 
redshaw said:
No, Liverpool bounced back to a 90 point plus team when they had their defenders back the following season. We were only second through that. Maybe have a look at the tables and Pool's pointn totals before our second spot and after and see it was a token second place. Chelsea were midtable tanking with Lampard as manager, once Tuchel took over they were one of the form teams by the end. I could see they would start the next season the same so yes it was unusual circumstances and a low points haul that could achieve second. I predicted the start of last season during the season before as City Pool and Chelsea were flying, normal service was being resumed and we were never going to get close to a second place.

The following season should tell you even more how hollow the second place was. The football in that second place season was also unsustainable, it was comeback after come back after conceding, with short bursts of goals in 5-10 mins spells while playing awful for most of it. Not surprising it all came undone last season and we finished 6th. That's why it's a net 4th in reality and couldn't be held on to.
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Certainly was. I know as football fans we're all biased but Liverpool had probably the worst defensive crisis I've ever seen from a top side- way worse than ours in 09-10. Blaming Ronaldo for breaking up what's being painted as a really good side that achieved so much is just nonsense.

The reality is both second place finishes under Ole and Jose were remarkably similar in someways: mostly crap football, a bad Champions League campaign and a very disappointing cup final defeat at the end of the season followed by a catastrophic collapse the following year. Unsurprisingly the two squads shared a lot of the same players, which points to an uncomfortable realization about their quality/mentality.

Lets hope EtH breaks the yo-yo cycle. It's a huge task but i'm optimistic he can do it.
 
Fortitude said:
Honestly have no idea what he thought he was doing with such antics. Hugely detrimental to whatever footballing ambitions he has, and the question remains of what he’s actually capable of firing on all the cylinders he has left.

There will be a definitive answer to this come the World Cup where he’ll give everything he has with no holding back whatsoever. I also suspect his plan is to use camp with the NT at the World Cup to max out his fitness and go into the tournament proper all guns blazing.

We weren’t in his plans and I don’t think he expected to still be here, but whoever would have got him would’ve gone through the same thing because his fitness for club football is way off and needs addressing first and foremost. My thoughts on that is he had no real intention of handling a club season in terms of a league campaign and would have angled his fitness towards the start of the CL, which would have bought him more time.
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I think it’s very likely that the entire shenanigans were instigated by Mendes, who saw his lack of enthusiasm for playing in the Europa as an opportunity to give himself a final payday off the Ronaldo gravy train.

It would have been wise to have checked the market for his services beforehand, obviously. United not playing ball and refusing to release him on a free didn’t help either.
 
ForeverRed1 said:
Might not be on of the best any more but he still has goals in him and something to offer this season.
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does he though? he doesn’t look like scoring in any games this reason which is the point. He needed a penalty against a moldovan side!
 
Luka Mora said:
Exactly he's been too busy pumping weights to look like some IG footballer and as a result he looks as stiff as ironing board. I said it before instead of seeking refuge in Jordan Peterson, he should he been talking to Zlatan about how to preserve the body and adapt to the modern game when aging.

He reminds me of Anthony Joshua, both guys past their prime obsessed with bodybuilding and IG Hollywood esque photography instead of adapting and focusing on adjusting their style and craft to their profession.
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Zlatan never relies on pace nor explosiveness even when he was young. Footballer like him tends to age better than those who were pacy. Beside, believe me or not , Zlatan is actually better technically than Ronaldo , better at holding, linking and playmaking. 37 years old zlatan without acl injury would have been more useful for us than current Ronaldo.
 
Adam-Utd said:
does he though? he doesn’t look like scoring in any games this reason which is the point. He needed a penalty against a moldovan side!
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i will say it’s the first time I’ve seen him lack confidence. Looks like a man who’s accepting his capabilities are different to what they used to be but I do think he can bring something to the team yes.
 
Revaulx said:
I think it’s very likely that the entire shenanigans were instigated by Mendes, who saw his lack of enthusiasm for playing in the Europa as an opportunity to give himself a final payday off the Ronaldo gravy train.

It would have been wise to have checked the market for his services beforehand, obviously. United not playing ball and refusing to release him on a free didn’t help either.
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If these were purely footballing decisions, the pair of them handled such a crucial window shambolically and are responsible for what we see now.

Whether hubris or educated gamble, it has been a spectacular miscalculation that has compromised a player who, even with a full pre-season, would have had a tough time of the demands not only of a notoriously demanding ten Hag system, but at any club that would forgo graft off the ball for stellar productivity and conversion rates - you have to be sharp as a tack for the latter and Ronaldo, in part because of no pre-season, is miles off that.
 
To me, if Ronaldo performs he plays and if he doesn't he will be on the bench which is a simple matter and something which Ronaldo is fine with accepting. However some of you posters make it look like he is running a worldwide underground football mafia which will destabilize the club anytime. Drop the conspiracy theories and focus on other positives guys.
 
Stupidly missing 90% of preseason to force a move has massively backfired for him.
 
Top player? No
Elite/World Class player? Yes.

2 very different things.
 
Pre-season would have helped him be more in tune with how we want to play but by this point it wouldn't have changed that he looks so slow and clunky in every action. He's completely past it.
 
Can’t stand everything having to go through him when he’s on the pitch. And the dropping into midfield is irritating as he does nothing with the ball.
 
I hope the Arab deal is still on. He needs to go. He has done absolutely nothing this season. In fact, he slowed down our attack and can't press from the front
 
Whilst he’s still a world class finisher Ronaldo as a player is very much done at the top level and if I’m honest I think he’d struggle for any club with Champions League aspirations, the Sociedad told me everything I needed confirmed and no one can tell me it’s because of a lack of pre season.
 
Vapor trail said:
I think Ronaldo suits a team where the foundation of the squad is already established and he is just added in to include goals. For a new manager looking to change the philosophy and raise the standards to compete I think Ronaldo is the wrong fit.

Don't doubt his quality as a player with momentum and form he gets goals no doubts about it but he's not the profile of player United need to move forward.
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It would have been better for United if he had gone to Man City. But nobody dares say that out loud (or why he returned to the club he was at in 2003).
 
Still doesn't quite look up to speed after missing pre-season - the absolutely critical part of a player's season.

He's got his role to play, but it's picking the right games to start, and trying to develop a more dynamic style based on Martial and Rashy for other games.

We shouldn't pretend that those latter 2 are young Rooney and Ronaldo all of a sudden though. To do so would be utter madness after people have spent the last 2 years moaning massively about both!

At the moment Martial seems to get better and better without actually playing. It's the Fletcher thing again.
 
Sandikan said:
Still doesn't quite look up to speed after missing pre-season - the absolutely critical part of a player's season.

He's got his role to play, but it's picking the right games to start, and trying to develop a more dynamic style based on Martial and Rashy for other games.

We shouldn't pretend that those latter 2 are young Rooney and Ronaldo all of a sudden though. To do so would be utter madness after people have spent the last 2 years moaning massively about both!

At the moment Martial seems to get better and better without actually playing. It's the Fletcher thing again.
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Current Ronaldo isn't prime Ronaldo or even post-peak Rooney either so we also shouldn't act like the bar for preferring Martial or Rashford is anywhere that high.
 
Sandikan said:
Still doesn't quite look up to speed after missing pre-season - the absolutely critical part of a player's season.

He's got his role to play, but it's picking the right games to start, and trying to develop a more dynamic style based on Martial and Rashy for other games.

We shouldn't pretend that those latter 2 are young Rooney and Ronaldo all of a sudden though. To do so would be utter madness after people have spent the last 2 years moaning massively about both!

At the moment Martial seems to get better and better without actually playing. It's the Fletcher thing again.
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Surely a top class player should still have a decent touch, get away good shots etc.

They might be lacking in fitness, maybe not be quite as sharp as normal, but the drop off we see is just far too much for it to be fitness related.

To make it worse he tries to throw in tricks and flicks that barely ever come off. I just want him to keep it simple and not break down attacks.
 
Garethw said:
Stupidly missing 90% of preseason to force a move has massively backfired for him.
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We don't know why he exactly he missed it though. It's possible he felt the need to spend some extra time at home after the birth of his daughter and loss of his son. But I agree that it probably has had a negative affect on his performances.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Surely a top class player should still have a decent touch, get away good shots etc.

They might be lacking in fitness, maybe not be quite as sharp as normal, but the drop off we see is just far too much for it to be fitness related.

To make it worse he tries to throw in tricks and flicks that barely ever come off. I just want him to keep it simple and not break down attacks.
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There's also the chemistry and general contribution. His declined play in the final third makes it harder to overlook his lacking contribution in other phases. He doesn't actually play the position, he's just makeshifting there because of his finishing ability. Movement, link up, hold up, things you need from a striker to break teams down. Also has dogshit chemistry with the playmakers. Bruno, Eriksen, Antony and Sancho are an amazing row of individual talent to play off. Prime CR would be on 5-9 goals from the individual brilliance alone. This one can't even get a shot off after being released into space. Not worth it as a starting striker.
 
Fortitude said:
If these were purely footballing decisions, the pair of them handled such a crucial window shambolically and are responsible for what we see now.

Whether hubris or educated gamble, it has been a spectacular miscalculation that has compromised a player who, even with a full pre-season, would have had a tough time of the demands not only of a notoriously demanding ten Hag system, but at any club that would forgo graft off the ball for stellar productivity and conversion rates - you have to be sharp as a tack for the latter and Ronaldo, in part because of no pre-season, is miles off that.
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Oh absolutely.

If I were a player looking for a safe pair of hands to look after my best interests, I'd be having second thoughts about Mendes as a result of this.
 
I always think the problem with fading players is that they need to play every week and train extra hard to retain any kind of sharpness, but if they start to not justify their place they decline more quickly. Seen it so many times. If Martial gets fit and plays as he can then this will be the last season Ronaldo will play at a big club. If not, I could see him playing himself into form close to last season, especially since he does the training part. Not having a preseason was terrible for us and really for him too.
 
Let’s acknowledge a fact before we move on to speculation, however informed the speculation may be. Fact is, Ronaldo’s goals saved us from total humiliation last season. Yes of course we finished sixth, but without his goals we would likely have finished in the bottom half of the table and not made it out of the CL group stage — I’d have to go through each match result to confirm that but I’m pretty sure that’s the case. I’m willing to state that as fact but if I’m wrong and that Ronaldo’s goals last season merely padded stats on comfortable wins then I’m happy to be corrected.

But here we are today. Martial is literally not a factor and Rashford is productively only as a counterattacking forward. Ronaldo has gotten off to a slow start, without question, but he did score a fantastic goal that was correctly disallowed for offside that Martial and Rashford would never be able to score.

The curtain will drop on Ronaldo soon and I agree that it’s absurd we’re paying him £375/week (my understanding) but he’s got enough left in him to make important contributions to the club this season. He’s off to a slow start, but we shouldn’t be surprised if he leads United in goals scored at the end of the season.
 
lex talionis said:
Let’s acknowledge a fact before we move on to speculation, however informed the speculation may be. Fact is, Ronaldo’s goals saved us from total humiliation last season. Yes of course we finished sixth, but without his goals we would likely have finished in the bottom half of the table and not made it out of the CL group stage — I’d have to go through each match result to confirm that but I’m pretty sure that’s the case. I’m willing to state that as fact but if I’m wrong and that Ronaldo’s goals last season merely padded stats on comfortable wins then I’m happy to be corrected.

But here we are today. Martial is literally not a factor and Rashford is productively only as a counterattacking forward. Ronaldo has gotten off to a slow start, without question, but he did score a fantastic goal that was correctly disallowed for offside that Martial and Rashford would never be able to score.

The curtain will drop on Ronaldo soon and I agree that it’s absurd we’re paying him £375/week (my understanding) but he’s got enough left in him to make important contributions to the club this season. He’s off to a slow start, but we shouldn’t be surprised if he leads United in goals scored at the end of the season.
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Umm that too is speculation. To establish this as a fact you'd literally need to pop in to an alternate reality where Ronaldo never joins to see what happens. This team could very well have been fine without. It was fine before he joined and almost as if to emphasize it they recently went on a 4 game winning streak without him. They even did so in the exact same lethal counterattacking style they won games before he joined, like riding a bike. What we lose in goals we gain in other aspects. He didn't save anything. We are perfectly capable of walking without him.

Let me even rephrase that last bit to avoid inevitable confusion, this team (even before the transfers) are perfectly capable of finishing 6th without him. Just like they did all the seasons before he joined.
 
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lex talionis said:
Let’s acknowledge a fact before we move on to speculation, however informed the speculation may be. Fact is, Ronaldo’s goals saved us from total humiliation last season. Yes of course we finished sixth, but without his goals we would likely have finished in the bottom half of the table and not made it out of the CL group stage — I’d have to go through each match result to confirm that but I’m pretty sure that’s the case. I’m willing to state that as fact but if I’m wrong and that Ronaldo’s goals last season merely padded stats on comfortable wins then I’m happy to be corrected.

But here we are today. Martial is literally not a factor and Rashford is productively only as a counterattacking forward. Ronaldo has gotten off to a slow start, without question, but he did score a fantastic goal that was correctly disallowed for offside that Martial and Rashford would never be able to score.

The curtain will drop on Ronaldo soon and I agree that it’s absurd we’re paying him £375/week (my understanding) but he’s got enough left in him to make important contributions to the club this season. He’s off to a slow start, but we shouldn’t be surprised if he leads United in goals scored at the end of the season.
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Your argument completely ignores that someone else would have played instead of Ronaldo, and that someone would probably not be the striker who ran the least of all strikers in the league.

His goals aren't worth the lack of effort. They weren't last season and they won't be this season.
 
Irrational. said:
There's a reason why Chelsea, Napoli, Juve, PSG, Madrid, Barca, Atletico and even Sporting wouldn't go near him with a bargepole - he's is done.

The initial signing was made purely to stop him from joining City - but it's backfired spectacularly as Haaland notches up record-breaking numbers and we're left with a shadow of the player. In fact, it couldn't have gone any worse for us.
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100%
 
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