In another season they wouldn't have had 3 of their major rivals change manager and another waste away into nothingness. If they were going to win it it would have been over the last two seasons. But they didn't, because they weren't good enough. The best XI win things, it's as simple as that.
Do we have the best XI in England now?
- Thread starter Infordin
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Valencia is as good as any right back in the league and Darmian is a decent back up option. Left back is weaker than our rivals but Shaw is still a talented prospect and Blind will do a job there.
City's centre back, central midfield issues and Spurs central midfield issues are greater than our fullback issues.
Lukaku, Ibrahimovic, Rashford, Martial, Mkhitaryan and Mata are great options in attack. Yes an out and out wide attacker would've been a plus but those 6 are more than good enough to win this league if the right defence and midfield are in place behind them.
I think we have the best squad because our weaknesses are less glaring than our rivals.
Every side have weaknesses but I'd rather be in our shoes, with question marks over fullbacks or wingers, than our rivals and be worrying about centre backs or centre mids.
Spurs definitely have the best balanced first XI for me. But they are lacking depth in their squad and are heading into a season where every visiting side will be playing their cup final at Wembley.
City have issues at CB and in midfield. Their squad is far too top heavy.
If Chelsea can get Costa back into the right frame of mind I'd be worried about them. There is still a cracking squad there but when it looked like he was moving on, they were very short up top.
Liverpool and Arsenal will never win a PL with that caliber of central defence. Their midfields flatter to deceive as well and I don't think they have the depth to challenge.
City, United and Chelsea can survive the loss of one or even two star players. Take Sanchez out of Arsenal or Mane out of Liverpool and it's curtains.
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Chelsea were better, no doubt, but we are talking about United and Spurs, not Chelsea and Spurs. Let us hope that we'll batter Spurs this season.
As I said, you could try actually watching football sometime.
I don't agree. Walker and now Aurier are better than Valencia imo, not by a large margin but still better. Shaw is seemingly never available so is a moot point and Blind 'doing a job there' isn't anywhere as good as Mendy, Rose etc. City's centre back and midfield issues are down to tactics imo, in terms of personnel it's not that bad as they look sometimes. They get left for dead. Once they get Gundogan back and if they can keep Kompany fit they'll be rosey.
Our attack is very good, but isn't better than City's (in terms of personnel anyway, it's looked better as a unit in this season so far though).
You did and it added absolutely nothing to the discussion. No suprise there.
I have confidence we will.
Just enjoy pointing out your cluelessness. I know it bothers you but it's a hobby for me.
Looking just in England, I think it's pretty tight and it will show throughout the year as I don't see anyone running with it like Chelsea last year.
World-class goalkeeper, excellent centre-backs and midfield with Lukaku upfront. If we had just little more quality in full-back positions, especially on the left, I would put us easily ahead of everyone. As we don't, we have some problems but so do the rest of the teams. Chelsea just looking at the first starting 11 seem very strong but there is no depth and I think it will cost them in the end.
I do not believe all the hype around Spurs team until they actually win something. Every time they've come close to winning anything, they failed.
World-class goalkeeper, excellent centre-backs and midfield with Lukaku upfront. If we had just little more quality in full-back positions, especially on the left, I would put us easily ahead of everyone. As we don't, we have some problems but so do the rest of the teams. Chelsea just looking at the first starting 11 seem very strong but there is no depth and I think it will cost them in the end.
I do not believe all the hype around Spurs team until they actually win something. Every time they've come close to winning anything, they failed.
I was basing my judgement on just the full strength first 11s and the fact that United right now don't know their strongest 11 (Martial or Rashford? A fully fit Jones or Rojo? Mkhitaryan or Mata? Midfield 3 or 2?). That alone for me puts Spurs slightly ahead of United.More or less both of these responses.
@SaboTaj I feel the same except even with the Spurs having the slightest of edge in terms of balance (virtually neck and neck), United have the more world class/elite players which is huge in all team sports and usually makes the biggest difference + the better quality bench depth. Both teams (as well as Chelsea to a lesser extent) have no real imbalances in their lineup.
As for Europe feel the same way but you might've missed Juventus who I'd say are better than us. But yea we're around the same level as Barca and Atletico which ain't bad considering that means only a handful of teams (3 or 4 or so) in the world are clearly ahead of us. Shows the work and progress United have made under José in just 1 full year under him. Promising times
Juventus on the other hand might arguably have a better defence, but on the whole the Higuain and Dybala factor i comfortably offset by having Lukaku, Pogba and Mkhitaryan. And they play Mandzukic on the left wing, even if that has proved to be a successful experiment, i can't put that starting 11 above United's.
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You mean making what you beleive to be sharp witticisms but what the rest of us see as moronic drivel. Not at all, it's nice to know I have a child that follows my every whim in a futile attempt to aggregate me. Now run along timmy, the grown ups are talking.
Aggregate??? lol. You maybe want to get a dictionary so your lame attempts at smug put-downs actually make sense.
My apologies, I shouldn't presume a child could decipher a typo all on his own. 'Lol'.
I'm sorry. Did that really aggregate you?
Yeah this is really quite sad now. I won't bother replying again, but feel free to continue following me from thread to thread like a lost puppy.
Oh no. I'll be really aggregated if you stop replying to me :-(
I don't think bailly gets into Spurs lineup
Aurier has played a total of 0 minutes of Premier League football and has never looked as strong in Europe as he has in the French league. I've never once seen Valencia put in a performance as poor as Auriers 15 minute cameo at the Nou Camp last March(his last taste of serious level football incidentally).
Walker impressed within an effective Spurs tactical system last year but he is not as quick, as strong, as intelligent or as consistent as Valencia in my opinion. He can be rash and impulsive and while I'd probably give him the edge going forwards, Valencia is the more reliable defender for me.
I agree with you at left back. We are behind City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal here but I don't think it's as glaring as how far some of them are behind at CB or in the midfield. It's also not fair to dismiss Shaw because of his fitness record and then use players like Kompany or Gundogan to argue against United!
Our attack lacks the numbers and names City have on paper. But as we've seen over the last few years, an attack is only as good as the defence and midfield it is built on. We have some cracking players up top and with Matic sitting back, players like Pogba and Mkhitaryan are free to supply and support them from deep.
I'll be very interested to see how Pep keeps all of Aguero, Jesus, Sane, D.Silva, B.Silva, Sterling and De Bruyne happy this year. He's already lost a talented homegrown youngster in Iheanacho and gone hard for Sanchez on top of all those names. If he comes in January I can see some real issues cropping up amongst that lot, especially if their deficiencies in defence and midfield leave them further from the top than they expect to be.
I don't rate Vertonghen that highly so I might fit Bailly in, but I'd definitely find a way to fit Dembele in, Pogba aside, he's better than any United midfielder.
Vertonghen has been at Spurs for a good while now but until he had a world class defender beside him, in a well coached tactical system, none of us would ever have dreamed of rating him as highly as some are now.
Good tactics and well coached teams can make players look better than they are. I'd say in this Spurs side Walker, Vertonghen, Rose, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, Son and a couple of others have all benefitted from that. None are world beaters but all are decent players who look better in the right system.
Bailly has much more ability than Vertonghen. He's clearly the better athlete and defender and is only settling into his career in English football.
So clearly Arsenal's FA cup makes them the best XI. That makes sense.
I agree on your point about Valencia being better than Walker defensively, but I wouldn't say he's better than Aurier defensively. The difference in pace between all 3 of them is minimal, Valencia probably does edge but it only by a little. One thing he is superior to them both at is an understanding of the game, but that's due to his experience. Walker is more of an attacking threat which is more important for a team like City, they don't seem to give a shit about defending. Let's not forget that Aurier without attitude problems is one of the best RB's in the game.
Like I said - Shaw is too unreliable. Who knows when he might be fit and ready again and when that time comes will he be the same player he was? I wasn't using Kompany and Gundogan as examples to discount United - simply pointing out they're in a similar position to us in those areas, good options who aren't reliable.
I agree with the last bit, I said as much myself. Their attack is better on paper and has better players, but so far this season our attack looks to have a better understanding than theirs does.
I'll be interested to see just how good Aurier is this season. He's played 9 Champions League games in his whole career and 3 times at the World Cup. Other than those games, his entire career has consisted of French league football and African Cup of Nations (his international record isn't great either). I think it's fair to hold off on calling him one of the best RBs in the game until he's proven himself at a higher level.
I think United have the strongest spine in the league. Our keeper, centre back, central midfield and striker spine is better than any of our rivals. Our right back is as good as anyones and while our left back spot is not as strong as the others, it isn't as big a weakness as fielding the likes of Mangala, Lovren, Metrtesacker, Luiz or Otamendi at centre back.
We have exciting young attackers in Martial, Rashford and Mkhitaryan to compliment proven goalscorers like Lukaku and Ibrahimovic up front and a balanced enough squad that most if not all of our players will see significant game time.
I'd take our first 11 or squad over City, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool. I'd take our squad over Spurs as well.
I think that a team's worth has to be judged on results, and as far as they go our starting 11 is a CL 2017 finalist, thus last season's second best in Europe. Without offence, but you still have a lot to demonstrate before saying your team is better.
In any case, in the first two games of the new season our starting 11 has been
---------------------------Buffon-------------------------
-------Lichsteiner----Rugani----Chiellini----Alex Sandro----
------------------Khedira----------Pjanic-------------------
-------Cuadrado-------- Dybala----------Mandzukic------
--------------------------Higuain-----------------------------
And most importantly, this is an 11 built with only our SUBS
--------------------------Szczesny-------------------------
----Howedes-------Barzagli------Benatia------Asamoah---
------------Sturaro------Marchisio--------Matuidi----------
-----Bernardeschi---------Pjaca-----------Douglas Costa--
I honestly think we have one of the deepest teams in Europe, this second 11 would beat most teams in Europe.
As to Mandzukic, he's been our MVP of the season, that move has proved to be way more than successful, and this is why he's the only player that never gets subbed, never. Our wings are very atypical, on paper they might seem underwhelming but in our system they are deadly; it works perfectly and this is what matters.
We can't claim it now, but I reckon by Christmas we will have a strong argument for it.
I don't buy that we are that far behind Bayern, Juve, Barca right now. I reckon if we meet them in the later rounds of the CL, we will be feeling pretty confident by then.
We are on the up. Finally!
I don't buy that we are that far behind Bayern, Juve, Barca right now. I reckon if we meet them in the later rounds of the CL, we will be feeling pretty confident by then.
We are on the up. Finally!
Don't get me wrong i absolutely love Juve's first 11. And it clearly is stronger than United's first 11 from last season. But here i am arguing for United's current first 11.
I will concede that Juve's defence is better and the fullbacks do an excellent job complementing the two wide players ahead of them. But from the players ahead of them, bar Dybala, i'd prefer the personnel United has at its disposal - Matic and Pogba over Khedira and Pjanic, Lukaku over Higuain, Rashford/Martial over Mandzukic, and Mkhitaryan over Cuadrado.
Just as how Juve's system works well for the players they have and their respective role, United's current system does a comparable job of mitigating an obvious weakness which is the left full back position and at the same time also buttresses the strengths of the personnel involved.
Marchisio, when fit, is a better player than Matic.
In a 4-2-3-1, I'd probably have Marchisio and Pogba in a double pivot, with Dybala as CAM and Higuain as striker.
The wing positions could go to numorous players (Martial, Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Douglas Costa, Bernardeschi, Pjaca). They are too close to separate.
But if you have to play a 3 in midfield then wouldn't Matic-Herrera-Pogba be a better option than Marchisio-Khedira-Pjanic. Not saying there's a huge gap between the two trios but for me United's would slightly edge it in both a three and two man midfield.
That's one of the first positive things I've seen you post on here.
We have been shite for four years. The playing staff has been embarrassingly poor.
Mourinho is fixing that.
Still need to keep investing heavily for another summer or two though. Probably forever with the way things are now in football.
Honestly, no. Marchisio is better than Matic, and both Khedira and Matuidi are better than Herrera. Pogba is better than Pjanic, but overall Juve's midfield edges it.
I'd also have Higuain over Lukaku and Dybala over anyone on your team.
It's close, but IMO Juve has a better XI.
Within a season or two we'll be stronger. We don't look at players but units. It wouldn't fuss many to play Juventus. Herrera is a quality player actually and (we've not seen it so far) but that unit and what it provides has the potential to be pretty well defined.
As for Lukaku - I wouldn't swap him for Higuain but there's also suspicion. How good could Lukaku be? He's only 24 but he's making good inroads and will have a great chance to be a top striker.
Too early to say. I think defensively we're strong. Full backs (aleast attacking wise), we're WEAK. Midfields good. Our width could be fine and up top we're not bad. We're a few years away from knowing really. We have to rebuild the mentality after being managed by people that didn't know how to build up confidence/team morale/belief. However, we have the pace to hurt anyone on the counter attack. If we lose or draw the next game, some people will go into their shell so maybe it's a bit too soon..