Do we have the best XI in England now?

Could make a case for Barcelona and Athletico but I'd say we have a better midfield and defence than Barca and a better midfield and attack than Athletico.
I disagree

Pique is better than any of your centerbacks
Jordi Alba is much better than Shaw/Blind
Semedo is at least as good as Valencia
Busquets is better than Matic
Rakitic is as at least as good as Herrera

I don't see how you came to your conclusion.

I would also add Juventus to the list of teams with a stronger XI (IMO).
 
But the other teams will likely address their weaknesses too.

Maybe. I have much more confidence that Guardiola will sign a CB and DM next year once Stones/Otamendi/Kompany don't get the job done at CB (Kompany with injury) and Fernandinho is just fine and on his age 33 season next summer, or that Mourinho will sign an LB if Shaw doesn't have a strong year and Woodward will spend big on another star like Griezmann or Bale, than I do that Klopp will find the right partner for Matip, DM to upgrade from Henderson, keeper and probably fullback that Liverpool need.
 
I disagree

Pique is better than any of your centerbacks
Jordi Alba is much better than Shaw/Blind
Semedo is at least as good as Valencia
Busquets is better than Matic
Rakitic is as at least as good as Herrera

I don't see how you came to your conclusion.

I would also add Juventus to the list of teams with a stronger XI (IMO).

Dembele-------Suarez---Messi-----
---------Pogba-Matic-Herrera------
Shaw/Blind-Jones-Bailly-Valencia
----------------De Gea--------------

I think that despite the issues at LB and Jones' injury history, this team would be considered slightly stronger than current Barca due to the increase in athleticism in midfield, De Gea and a very solid if unspectactular right side.

Still wouldn't be favoured over Madrid, but really just the one massive question mark at LB instead of current Barca whose back 8 is Pique, Busquets (a legend, but struggled in big games lately), Alba and then some question marks, though Ter Stegen, Semedo and Umtiti do have enough talent and are the right ages to put together excellent seasons. The other midfield spots of Iniesta/Paulinho/Rakitic/Gomes/Denis Suarez are at the moment huge issues.
 
Players to players, we are perhaps behind RM, Barca, PSG, Juventus, Bayer Munchen, and perhaps Atletico. But I believe if we are still going strong in October/November, we will continue getting stronger into the elimination rounds of the CL. Also, Mourinho gives us an edge against many teams, and we will be capable of beating anyone. Still, I would be happy if we can reach the quarterfinals. If we progress beyond that, it would just be a bonus.

In England I can see us mounting a strong title challenge, as our team is built on last year's team and much more settled. We will see how Chelsea and Liverpool do this year as they will need to cope with the demands of playing in Europe. City presents a threat because obviosly they have assembled a squad with quality in every position, and Pep has historically taken the upper hand over Mourinho. And City seem to play their best when United is challenging them for a title. So we will hope they wilt once again.
 
Real, Bayern and PSG for sure
I'd say Juventus too

For Barca need to wait how Dembele turns out and if Suarez regains decent form
 
The bigger point is we have Mourinho. And to top it, this is his second season. He has what he needs. He will deliver. I think Mourinho is the best manager in the PL. Followed by Pochettino. I have serious doubts about Pep. Conte's got his panties in a bunch. And this is the season Mourinho will finally defeat a Klopp side. Game on!
 
In Europe, Madrid, Bayern and PSG are clearly better. Juventus and Barca are debatable. In the PL, it's really harder to call with Chelsea, City and Spurs having very good teams. Each team has different strengths and weaknesses. It will depend on how their managers can get the best out of their players.
 
Those teams that finish above United this season in England and Europe.

Personally, I don't rate very highly United's first XI: it has only one undisputable world class player in DDG. Pogba is debatable, the other palyers are very good but not world class (yet). But it's the same with Chelsea and City. English clubs may be the richest but they do not have many of the best players in the world.

Compare this United first XI to United's in 07/09 when the latter boasted 5-6 world class players and only Barca stoped it from winning back to back CL trophies.
 
In England, a full strength Spurs is a more solid and balanced starting 11 than United's. City and Liverpool arguably have a better/more fluid attack but they clearly lack the balance from back to front.

In Europe, Real Madrid, Bayern and now PSG clearly have a stronger first 11. Could make a case for Barcelona and Athletico but I'd say we have a better midfield and defence than Barca and a better midfield and attack than Athletico.
The bigger point is we have Mourinho. And to top it, this is his second season. He has what he needs. He will deliver. I think Mourinho is the best manager in the PL.

More or less both of these responses.

@SaboTaj I feel the same except even with the Spurs having the slightest of edge in terms of balance (virtually neck and neck), United have the more world class/elite players which is huge in all team sports and usually makes the biggest difference + the better quality bench depth. Both teams (as well as Chelsea to a lesser extent) have no real imbalances in their lineup.

As for Europe feel the same way but you might've missed Juventus who I'd say are better than us. But yea we're around the same level as Barca and Atletico which ain't bad considering that means only a handful of teams (3 or 4 or so) in the world are clearly ahead of us. Shows the work and progress United have made under José in just 1 full year under him. Promising times :)
 
Spurs and Chelsea. City have more quality but maybe not a better team overall
 
It's tough to say because I think our side is now very well balanced. I wouldn't want to swap our entire playing XI with any other PL side as they all have areas of obvious weakness in key areas. For example, Chelsea, City and Liverpool don't convince me defensively and Spurs are just a bit uninspiring imo.

However, when you look at some of the individuals in these teams you can make an argument that they all, possibly with the exception of Liverpool, have better XIs than us. I don't agree that they do, but you could make the argument.

If we could steal Mendy from City and Mane from Liverpool I would be exceptionally happy with our XI and believe we would win the league this year
 
No. Stop overrating our squad. They need to prove what they can do first before we start making a conclusion. IMO, I think Spurs still has the best XI and then followed with either City or Chelsea and the 2nd last is United. Reasons are:

Spurs had the best XI in England last season and they have replaced Walker with a top right back so their XI are still the most balanced one at the moment.

City has solid XI but their keeper is still unproven and we still don't know if both Aguero & Jesus can play together.

Chelsea has solid XI as well but some players like Bakayoko & Morata are still unproven whether they are ready enough to replace Matic & Costa.

United is currently has the weakest left back compared to City, Spurs & Chelsea and also we don't have natural winger at the moment and we have to play Mata as a right winger. Although this can change if Shaw somehow plays like a top class left back this season.

Liverpool has the worst keeper & defense.
 
I think it's close between a lot of teams to be honest. No real stand-out.

I think City, Chelsea, Spurs and us are thereabouts. Pool close, but they've not improved their defense.

PSG and Real have by far the 2 best XI in the world imo. Juventus/Bayern/Barcelona behind those 3.
 
United and Liverpool are the only big sides with no world class attacking player.

Lukaku? Lol. Sure he's not world class or as sexy of a name as Aguero but he'll score just as many if not more and is elite. Heck he'll probably win the golden boot. Could care less about how he scores them. I'll gladly take the monster truck and appreciate what he brings to the table. It'd be foolish to even think about comparing him to a race car.


...and aside from attacking players, United have the most world class/elite players on our squad in general from any team in England so there's that.
 
Lukaku? Lol. Sure he's not world class or as sexy of a name as Aguero but he'll score just as many if not more and is elite. Heck he'll probably win the golden boot. Could care less about how he scores them. I'll gladly take the monster truck and appreciate what he brings to the table. It'd be foolish to even think about comparing him to a race car.


...and aside from attacking players, United have the most world class/elite players on our squad in general from any team in England so there's that.
Yea. But that doesn't detract from my point. Us and Liverpool have attacks with the potential to become world class but no proven world class performer. That is why us getting a Griezmann or a Bale in the future will be a major game changer for us.
 
Yea. But that doesn't detract from my point. Us and Liverpool have attacks with the potential to become world class but no proven world class performer. That is why us getting a Griezmann or a Bale in the future will be a major game changer for us.

True. Let's not forget about Pogba either.
 
United and Liverpool are the only big sides with no world class attacking player.
Agree with your point, but I'd probably add spurs to that list too. Alli is too early to judge and Kane has not impressed internationally yet. Others like Arsenal and Chelsea have only 1 World Class player (It's difficult to judge Ozil since he so often disappears in games, but yes, he can be a game changer). Only City seem stacked. So we're not far off imo.
 
Best XI- Arguably Spurs
Best Squad- Us definitely.

City lack balance, Spurs and Chelsea lack depth, Pool and Arsenal lack a defence
 
I would replace Jones and Bailly with Vertonghen and Alderweireld, Blind with Rose, Herrera with Dembele, Mkhitaryan with Eriksen, and Lukaku with Kane.

That's 6 players, it's pretty close IMO.
I get the centrebacks though theres very little difference between them. Rose I agree in place of Blind. Herrera is much the better player when compared to Dembele and at the moment its hard to argue with Mike and Lukakus records.
 
Spurs don't have a better XI than us, thats ridiculous imo. Alli is not better than Mikhi :lol: He will be at some point, but not yet.
 
I disagree

Pique is better than any of your centerbacks
Jordi Alba is much better than Shaw/Blind
Semedo is at least as good as Valencia
Busquets is better than Matic
Rakitic is as at least as good as Herrera

I don't see how you came to your conclusion.

I would also add Juventus to the list of teams with a stronger XI (IMO).


Pique would have been in our XI right now and especially with Jose's tactical in defense he could be even better. Alba is a massive upgrade if we get him. So no brain I agree with these.

Semedo is still unproven though so I won't say "at least as good as" but at least he's younger and a lot more to improve.

Busquest & Matic are different players but I prefer Busquest as my no 6 anyway.

I don't think Rakitic is as good as Herrera though, but Herrera's defensively are better than Rakitic which is why I placed him ahead.

Overall I would say
DDG
Valencia Bailly Pique Alba
Matic Busquest Pogba

Defensively I think Barcelona looks slightly better technically but because we have world class keeper & Jose's tactical defense, I must say we have the better ones in tactically.

In midfield, I think we have the better ones now.
 
The current version of Pique would get found out terribly by PL teams and thuggish and/or fast attackers for me, especially on the Counter.
 
No. Stop overrating our squad. They need to prove what they can do first before we start making a conclusion. IMO, I think Spurs still has the best XI and then followed with either City or Chelsea and the 2nd last is United.
So you say our players need to prove themselves but are happy to say Spurs have the best squad. How have they proved themselves exactly? We won three trophies last season, what did Spurs win? Spurs are as unproven as we are, and I'd say the most overrated team in the country right now.
 
Spurs don't have a better XI than us, thats ridiculous imo. Alli is not better than Mikhi :lol: He will be at some point, but not yet.

The way how Spurs used Alli and how we are using Mikhi are different though. So far I must say Spurs has used Alli more effectively than how we used Mikhi last season. Although, you are still too early to judge on Mikhi this season. This can change because Mikhi can produce a lot of assists this season so we will need to wait and see.
 
So you say our players need to prove themselves but are happy to say Spurs have the best squad. How have they proved themselves exactly? We won three trophies last season, what did Spurs win?

Tbh, United won trophies for which there wasn't much competition. The only big club on the way to both trophies was City and they played the reserves. The reason why United were so serious about he EL is that the league campaign was a catastrophe. When Spurs lost in the EL, they still could win the EPL and that was their aim.
 
Tbh, United won trophies for which there wasn't much competition. The only big club on the way to both trophies was City and they played the reserves. The reason why United were so serious about he EL is that the league campaign was a catastrophe. When Spurs lost in the EL, they still could win the EPL and that was their aim.
They were in just as many competitions as we were and failed in every single one of them. How does that make them proven and us unproven. How has Spurs proven their credentials by winning 3 less trophies than we have?
 
They were in just as many competitions as we were and failed in every single one of them. How does that make them proven and us unproven. How has Spurs proven their credentials by winning 3 less trophies than we have?

They failed in those other competitions because they were concentrated on the EPL and did not have United's depth. That's a thread about the first XI, not about the squads. It would be a travesty to argue based on last season that United's fist XI were as good or even better than Spurs' first XI. As rergards this season, time will show. I hope that with Matic and Lukaku and with the further development of Pogba and Rashford United will have the superior first XI.
 
People seriously underrate our squad. We have pogba, ddg and bailly who would go straight in any first 11. Lukaku and matic for me also. That is 5 players in combine first 11 of pl.
For me;
Ddg
Walker, bailly, ???, rose
Matic, pogba, alli(silva)
Hazard lukaku de bruyne(mane).
Are moratta and kane better than lukaku? For me, no.
Is kante clearly better than matic? Again no.
Also i didn't want to be full biased but is walker really better than valencia?

Also in squad depth we and city are far better than others.
 
People seriously underrate our squad. We have pogba, ddg and bailly who would go straight in any first 11. Lukaku and matic for me also. That is 5 players in combine first 11 of pl.
For me;
Ddg
Walker, bailly, ???, rose
Matic, pogba, alli(silva)
Hazard lukaku de bruyne(mane).
Are moratta and kane better than lukaku? For me, no.
Is kante clearly better than matic? Again no.
Also i didn't want to be full biased but is walker really better than valencia?

Also in squad depth we and city are far better than others.

You've included just one player from the team that won the league with 93 points - more than any Fergie team ever managed to collect?

Hope you are right. Maybe you know the future. Still, Kante would be ahead of Pogba as a DM. And Lukaku wouldn't start for Spurs and City, probably not even for Liverpool as they prefer another style that does not suit him.
 
They failed in those other competitions because they were concentrated on the EPL and did not have United's depth. That's a thread about the first XI, not about the squads. It would be a travesty to argue based on last season that United's fist XI were as good or even better than Spurs' first XI. As rergards this season, time will show. I hope that with Matic and Lukaku and with the further development of Pogba and Rashford United will have the superior first XI.
Nonsense. You're telling me you need the squad depth equivalent of United to compete in the league cup or FA Cup as well as the league? Europa perhaps, but you're clutching here.

No it wouldn't. We won things, Spurs did not. We concentrated on cup competitons as much as they did in the league, the only difference is we were successful - on multiple fronts. In no world is finishing as first losers a better result than winning two major competitons.

The point being made is United are not proven therefore can't have the best starting XI, yet the post I quoted stated Spurs had the best XI. So I'll ask you again, how is this Spurs squad proven where ours is not?
 
They were in just as many competitions as we were and failed in every single one of them. How does that make them proven and us unproven. How has Spurs proven their credentials by winning 3 less trophies than we have?
You could maybe try watching Spurs play sometime. They were miles better than us last year. Time will tell if our new signings will change that.
 
I disagree

Pique is better than any of your centerbacks
Jordi Alba is much better than Shaw/Blind
Semedo is at least as good as Valencia
Busquets is better than Matic
Rakitic is as at least as good as Herrera

I don't see how you came to your conclusion.

I would also add Juventus to the list of teams with a stronger XI (IMO).
Pique hasn't been all that of late to be honest. Jordi Alba and Semedo are definitely better going forward but can't say the same about them or the whole back 4 when it comes to defending as a unit.

Busquets might be better than Matic, but what he does is only of use if there are other midfielders around him who can benefit from his presence and use it to their advantage. With just Rakitic around him, i don't see how that midfield is a better one than Pogba-Matic or even a trio of Pogba-Matic-Herrera.
 
Nonsense. You're telling me you need the squad depth equivalent of United to compete in the league cup or FA Cup as well as the league? Europa perhaps, but you're clutching here.

No it wouldn't. We won things, Spurs did not. We concentrated on cup competitons as much as they did in the league, the only difference is we were successful - on multiple fronts. In no world is finishing as first losers a better result than winning two major competitons.

The point being made is United are not proven therefore can't have the best starting XI, yet the post I quoted stated Spurs had the best XI. So I'll ask you again, how is this Spurs squad proven where ours is not?

The league is far more important than the other competitions in which United took part last season. And our league campaign was very poor. Unlike Spurs who would have probably won it in another season.
 
All this talk of XI's and squads over the past few days has left me day dreaming about the squad you could build if you merged ourselves and Spurs:

De Gea
Valencia Bailly Alderweireld Rose
Matic
-- Alli ---- Pogba
- Eriksen --------------- Rashford
Kane

Subs: Lloris, Aurier, Vertonghen, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Lukaku
Squad: Romero, Shaw, Jones, Dier, Mata, Ibrahimovic​
 
You could maybe try watching Spurs play sometime. They were miles better than us last year. Time will tell if our new signings will change that.
Crazy good weren't they. Winning sod all. Some achievement that.
 
No our fullbacks are still shite and we are still lacking an attacker imo. I'd say we have the third best squad in the league behind City and Spurs. Chelsea and us tied for third.
 
Maybe we do and maybe we don't, only time will tell. But what does having the best xi, by comparing player to player, have to do with anything? People are so obsessed with the names on the back of the shirts that what actually happens on the pitch seems less important. Is it really important that Lukaku isn't in the world class category when it comes to rating forwards? We had a WC attacker last year and where did that take us? Does it matter that Liverpool don't have a renowned forward to lead their attack? As far as i remember scoring goals was the least of their problems last season.

Anyway, i don't think we had the best starting xi on paper in the last two championships we won under Fergie. In fact i believe that, since Ronaldo went to Real Madrid, we've become rather stagnant while other clubs around us invested in their squads and gradually became better to a point were they surpassed us. But the fact remains that despite the underwhelming teams on paper, we were always relevant under Ferguson. Maybe we didn't have the best forwards but we could score goals galore. We certainly didn't have the best midfield but what we had was enough to support our transition plays. We had a constantly makeshift defense but they could do the job properly.

Why's that? Because the plan was working. It wasn't as fancy as tiki-taka and it probably went against the grain that dictated that high pressing and/or possession play with defensive lines very high on the pitch were the way to go in modern football but it worked. It brought us titles and when it didn't, it never put our place among the title contenders in any danger whatsoever. Then Moyes and LvG happened...

Now to the main point, this season we're trying to address the problems we inherited from the previous one. Our transition games seems to be a step up from last season. Matic can help a lot with that, not because he's a good passer of the ball (so is Carrick) or because he "frees" Pogba (the tactics are pretty much the same in the 4231), but because he is aggressive and looks to intercept passes (something that Carrick can't do) while his positional discipline is similar to Carrick's (that's Herrera's weakness as a DM). Stealing the ball in deeper areas leads to quality counter attacks and positional awareness provides security. And there you have it, a player who's not in the WC bracket but also a player who might be just the right thing for our style of play.

The biggest issue for this United side remains the ability to open up low block sides, teams who'll gladly sit back and defend with 10 men behind the ball. There's an abundance of talent when our players have the spaces to run with the ball but all this quality seems to dwindle when the same players must create spaces for themselves or their teammates. I expect that during the course of the season this inability of ours will constantly be clashing with Mourinho's innate reluctance to commit players from the deeper lines forward. I also believe that, in the end, how we'll manage to work our way around that problem will determine if our best xi is good enough or not.

As for the others... I mentioned in another thread that Pep will have an easier job than Jose because he has worked out his attacking options and he just has to improve his defense. I should have known better. With the addition of Bernardo Silva their attacking options seem to better than anyone else's. They have players to hit on the counter, they have players who can operate in tight spaces and they have more than a few attacking/creative players who can produce something extraordinary. What they don't have is the ability to apply effective (very) high pressing in order to regain possession in the opponent's third. This is essential for any good Guardiola side since Pep usually opts to over commit players forward. Their second problem is subsequent of the first. Their back four (plus Fernandinho) doesn't seem capable to handle the pressure of a good number of counter attacks that their not (always) working high pressing leaves for them to deal with. And despite all the heavy investment in the defense there doesn't seem to be much improvement in that area.

Spurs are a ready made side and that's their greatest advantage over everybody else. Everybody in their starting lineup knows each other's game by heart and they probaly can guess Poch's instructions before he even gives them. That's a big plus and one of the aces up Fergie's sleeve for us back in the day. If there's any tactical issue with them at the start of this season, this would be Poch's "achievement" to presumably fall out with both his full backs. The wide men are of the utmost importance to Spur's build up play and they also provide good support in the final third. Aurier is a good signing but you can never be sure that he won't create problems off the pitch.

Chelsea were the best side last season when it came to defending deep in their third. No one did that better than them and that's why they won the league. I can't see that changing this season and the real question for them is how well they'll cope with midweek games and whether Conte will be able to keep things fresh for his players or not.

With Liverpool the question is if they'll be able to sustain their energy levels in the second half of the season. And it's still early days but i think that Klopp is creating a defensive problem on his left side, one that he had managed to successfully patch up last season.
 
United has the best goalkeeper, Spurs have the best defense, United the best midfield and City/Chelsea the best attack.
I'd say it's very close between all four of those teams who has the best eleven.