Do we have enough goals in the squad?

[AndySmith1990]

Genuinely one of the worst attacks in the league. No hyperbole.

Aside from Amad it's the absolute pits.

£100m on Hojlund and Zirkzee? Pair of them aren't fit to start for fecking Burnley nevermind United. Utter, utter shit they are

 

[Rossa]

How is this a question?

 

[Judas]

Everyone with sense saw this coming long before the summer window even opened. We've been desperately poor at literally scoring goals for years.

 

[Castia]

Zirkzee and Hojlund must be 2 of the worst forwards in the league….the fact they also cost over 100m is criminal

 

[Todd]

On pace for 42 goals in the league.

I believe our worst ever return in the EPL era was 49 goals, in 2015/16.

I sure hope that we sell 3 or 4 players in January so that we can buy Osimhen or Gyokeres.

 

[Leftback99]

We're missing McTominay's goals and it's no surprise whatsoever given that we didn't replace him with any kind of goal threat.

(We also miss his physicality and set piece usefulness)

 

[Nas-JR]

Is there a, single game this year where our actual goals exceeded our xG? We deserved the loss today but made me laugh how the chances and openings we did end up creating led to omyl a, single shot on target! We had about 3 one on ones. Multiple free headers from 6 yards out. Free hits from edges of the box. What do they get paid for??

 

[Lee565]

We seriously need to loan a striker if we can't buy, I would even welcome back ronaldo at this point as our maint striker

 

[ManUnitedCanuck]

I would argue it has been addressed but the sancho, Anthony and zirkzee deals were so horrendously bad it's made it very difficult to then improve things.

I see your point, but none of those are proven goal scorers, they were never going to address the issue.

 

[RuudTom83]

What has happened shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone in charge. If it is a shock! then that’s a bigger issue.

But whatever they do, don’t just add another CF in a moment of panic. Every club in Europe will be praying for the fax machine to beep with an offer from United.

 

[Charlie Foley]

On pace for 42 goals in the league.

I believe our worst ever return in the EPL era was 49 goals, in 2015/16.

I sure hope that we sell 3 or 4 players in January so that we can buy Osimhen or Gyokeres.

And we only conceded 35 that season. We were boring as shit but not as open at back. And we were in the title race into December (then we got dumped out of CL and lost three on the bounce in the league)

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Rk	Squad	MP	W	D	L	GF ▼	GA	GD	Pts
1	Liverpool	32	23	7	2	74	31	43	76
2	Manchester City	33	17	7	9	64	42	22	58
3	Newcastle Utd	33	18	5	10	62	44	18	59
4	Tottenham	32	11	4	17	60	49	11	37
5	Arsenal	32	17	12	3	57	27	30	63
6	Chelsea	32	15	9	8	56	39	17	54
7	Brentford	33	13	7	13	56	50	6	46
8	Aston Villa	33	16	9	8	53	47	6	57
9	Brighton	33	12	12	9	53	53	0	48
10	Bournemouth	33	13	10	10	52	40	12	49
11	Nott'ham Forest	32	17	6	9	51	38	13	57
12	Fulham	32	13	9	10	47	43	4	48
13	Wolves	32	10	5	17	47	61	-14	35
14	Crystal Palace	33	11	11	11	41	45	-4	44
15	Manchester Utd	32	10	8	14	38	45	-7	38
16	West Ham	33	9	9	15	37	55	-18	36
17	Everton	33	8	14	11	34	40	-6	38
18	Ipswich Town	32	4	9	19	33	67	-34	21
19	Leicester City	32	4	6	22	27	72	-45	18
20	Southampton	33	2	5	26	24	78	-54	11

Bumping an old thread to see how the predictions are going.

Player	MP	Starts	Min	Gls ▼	Ast	G+A
Bruno Fernandes	31	31	2,636	8	9	17
Amad Diallo	22	17	1,594	6	6	12
Alejandro Garnacho	31	20	1,876	5	1	6
*Marcus Rashford	15	12	978	4	1	5
Rasmus Højlund	27	18	1,585	3	0	3
Joshua Zirkzee	32	14	1,402	3	1	4
Matthijs de Ligt	28	24	2,089	2	0	2
Lisandro Martínez	20	20	1,751	2	1	3
Manuel Ugarte Ribeiro	24	19	1,532	1	0	1
Harry Maguire	22	16	1,418	1	0	1
Casemiro	21	15	1,271	1	0	1

 

[U.N.C.L.E]

Possibly the most redundant thread title in the history of the caf

 

[AdamColeBebe]

Rk	Squad	MP	W	D	L	GF ▼	GA	GD	Pts
1	Liverpool	32	23	7	2	74	31	43	76
2	Manchester City	33	17	7	9	64	42	22	58
3	Newcastle Utd	33	18	5	10	62	44	18	59
4	Tottenham	32	11	4	17	60	49	11	37
5	Arsenal	32	17	12	3	57	27	30	63
6	Chelsea	32	15	9	8	56	39	17	54
7	Brentford	33	13	7	13	56	50	6	46
8	Aston Villa	33	16	9	8	53	47	6	57
9	Brighton	33	12	12	9	53	53	0	48
10	Bournemouth	33	13	10	10	52	40	12	49
11	Nott'ham Forest	32	17	6	9	51	38	13	57
12	Fulham	32	13	9	10	47	43	4	48
13	Wolves	32	10	5	17	47	61	-14	35
14	Crystal Palace	33	11	11	11	41	45	-4	44
15	Manchester Utd	32	10	8	14	38	45	-7	38
16	West Ham	33	9	9	15	37	55	-18	36
17	Everton	33	8	14	11	34	40	-6	38
18	Ipswich Town	32	4	9	19	33	67	-34	21
19	Leicester City	32	4	6	22	27	72	-45	18
20	Southampton	33	2	5	26	24	78	-54	11

Bumping an old thread to see how the predictions are going.

Player	MP	Starts	Min	Gls ▼	Ast	G+A
Bruno Fernandes	31	31	2,636	8	9	17
Amad Diallo	22	17	1,594	6	6	12
Alejandro Garnacho	31	20	1,876	5	1	6
*Marcus Rashford	15	12	978	4	1	5
Rasmus Højlund	27	18	1,585	3	0	3
Joshua Zirkzee	32	14	1,402	3	1	4
Matthijs de Ligt	28	24	2,089	2	0	2
Lisandro Martínez	20	20	1,751	2	1	3
Manuel Ugarte Ribeiro	24	19	1,532	1	0	1
Harry Maguire	22	16	1,418	1	0	1
Casemiro	21	15	1,271	1	0	1

Hoijlund, our first choice striker, with 3 goals

 

[Leftback99]

The answer was obvious but still people can't understand why results are poor.

 

[1988]

The answer was obvious but still people can't understand why results are poor.

Even if "obvious" no one would have thought it would end up this grim.

 

[Leftback99]

Even if "obvious" no one would have thought it would end up this grim.

Probably not but then again I saw Rashford as our only hope and he's not even here.

Feels like our hopes of not finishing 8th or lower again hinge on another Rashford purple patch.

All sides above us have more proven goalscorers.

 

[Raoul]

The question that keeps on giving with each year.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/where-do-we-find-more-goals.449135/

 

[Freak]

There’s a reason why Fergie always spent big money on the best available strikers. Here we are today spending top money on “potential” young strikers to lead our line. You cannot have a young striker lead the line at man utd as there’s too much pressure on them. Even Rooney when we bought him wasn’t leading our line - it was a proven/experienced RVN.

 

[ScholesBrain]

Baffled our management, supposedly "professional football people", cannot see what most casual fans could have seen!

 

[The United]

Some assumed ETH’s plan with striker signings was to make the No. 9 a focal point, letting wide players like Rashford and Garnacho cut inside and score. Højlund was supposed to be that guy—at least according to some at the club.

But is it really a shock that our attack is a mess when Rashford’s out of form and Højlund can barely control the ball? Let’s be real—it was already falling apart last season. ETH even used Bruno as a false 9 in the FA Cup final. Then they brought in Big Z this season to fix it, but that didn’t work either—because we still don’t have top-class wide forwards to make ETH’s system click.

And, now, since we don’t have a proper No. 9, Amorim’s system wouldn’t work here either. Basically, the entire front line has become unusable in any setup—thanks to years of poor recruitment.

 

[abr]

There’s a reason why Fergie always spent big money on the best available strikers. Here we are today spending top money on “potential” young strikers to lead our line. You cannot have a young striker lead the line at man utd as there’s too much pressure on them. Even Rooney when we bought him wasn’t leading our line - it was a proven/experienced RVN.

Yup. First few signings he made when he first arrived here was to sign Brian McClair, less than 2 years he went on to bring Hughes back also for big money. Promoted some youth strikers but still bought Dion Dublin and after he got injured went on to sign Cantona. In his last season he still brought RvP in even with Rooney, Chicharito, and Welbeck around. No need to overcomplicated things, yes a world class goalscorer is expensive, but hed' score you many more goals, the more goals you scored the closer youre winning the games, and eventually the closer you're to win the titles.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

The question that keeps on giving with each year.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/where-do-we-find-more-goals.449135/

That thread seems so naive now. We had no idea how much worse it would get. I wonder if this thread will be better in retrospect.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

We have barely enough if players have above average seasons.
Expectation wise, in the league -
Hojlund - 15
Rashford - 20
Bruno - 10
Garnacho - 15
Amad -10

That gets us to 70 goals. The others can and should chip in with another 10-15 in total, taking the total to 80+.

I wouldn't say that's a bad shout. But still doubt whether each player can hit that target.

Almost

 

[UpWithRivers]

We are so naive. The league generally has been won by City with 90 plus goals. In a bad year 80 plus goals when they are off it. We on the other hand are getting 60's goals in a good year. Sometimes 50's. Our best is what 73? That was even with world class season by Rashford and Bruno being one of the best goal assist midfielders. Thats us, this renowned attacking team. We have always been off it and needed to find 20/30 plus goals. But our answer has been Hojlund and past it strikers and Weghorst etc. Even now we havnt learned and still want to get inexperienced strikers. We are fkn miles off. Even to get back to our 60's target is going to be a struggle never mind reaching 80's goals.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

That thread seems so naive now. We had no idea how much worse it would get. I wonder if this thread will be better in retrospect.

I dread to think about getting even worse.

 

[Tony Stark]

Do we have enough goals in the squad?

Well, it depends. What is our aim for the season? A title challenge (lol)? Let's be conservative and say that would require anywhere between 80-90 goals; we'll probably just about scratch half of that.

Realistically, and I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but unless one of our attacking players suddenly hits a purple patch and goes on a prolonged period of unprecedented proficiency, we'll likely perform even worse than our nightmare second season with LVG, when we managed just an embarassing 49(!) goals in the league.

The scary part is, on paper at least, that 2015-16 actually had more potential to come good in the future than our current crop does, IMO. Spoiler alert: they didn't.

A quick depressing comparison of the two squads:

In 2015-16, our attacking options were basically a washed up Rooney, an infuriating Depay, an unknown but "exciting" potential in Lingard, and a tidy but hardly prolific Mata. This after letting go of/phasing out RVP, Hernandez, Kagawa and Nani in recent windows.

We did strike (temporary) jackpot with the deadline day signing of Martial, and he instantly become our biggest threat, though at 19, he was made to shoulder way too much way too soon. We got another shot in the arm - and by chance, IIRC - when an injury crisis meant LVG had to fast-track Rashford into the first team, and he, too, hit the ground running.

Then you had the likes of Herrera and Fellaini chipping in with the occasional goal or two from midfield, but they were hardly Lampard kind of numbers to make any significant difference. From set-pieces, Smalling was a threat, but didn't really get as many goals as his physical advantage allowed him to, IMO.

Basically, we went into that season with a slow and laboured attack devoid of any edge or creativity, and pretty much got bailed out thanks to the emergence of Rashford and Martial. Again, 49 goals was an embarrassment, and the football we dished up that season was possibly the worst in all my years of following the club. The FA Cup was a sweet end, but we could all tell that the attack was in major need of upgrading in subsequent windows.

Now, coming to 2024-25.

We came into the season with Hojlund (promising but rough around the edges) and Zirkzee (worryingly already looking like another bust) as our strikers, and Rashford (unreliable), Garnacho, Amad and Antony (non-entity) as our wide options. Rashford's form falling off a cliff means there isn't one finished article in the attack, and you can't go into a season based on just all potential.

Our current squad does have a leg up over the 2016 bunch at least in terms of goals from midfield though, thanks to Bruno and Casemiro being quite effective from set-pieces. Not counting Mount till he makes regular appearances for us. As for goals from the defenders, I like what I've seen from De Ligt so far, but we need more such threat from corners and set-pieces.

So, yeah, even when put in a direct comparison against our previous worst attack, the current options don't really look all that promising, at least for this year.

Unless Bruno steps up his form MASSIVELY and one or two of our other attacking players find the back of the net consistently, I predict about 45-50 goals for this season. Which will probably land us anywhere from 6th to 10th.

Wow, I'd made this post with expectations already at rock bottom, and thought I might have been a tad too pessimistic and negative with my predictions.

Turns out United have, once again, managed to somehow drag the bar even lower.

I never thought our football would never again be as bad as that 2015-16 season under LVG, but turns out, the 49 league goals we managed that season is going to COMFORTABLY beat whatever total we manage this year.

Real talk, why aren't more heads rolling over this? The league position is humiliating enough, but it's beyond unacceptable for a club like Manchester United to be struggling to hit 40 goals a season going into May.

Truly, truly unacceptable

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

There’s a reason why Fergie always spent big money on the best available strikers. Here we are today spending top money on “potential” young strikers to lead our line. You cannot have a young striker lead the line at man utd as there’s too much pressure on them. Even Rooney when we bought him wasn’t leading our line - it was a proven/experienced RVN.

City are doing what United should have. Have (A) one top quality forward with reliable goals (Haaland), and then supplement him with the likes of (B) an exciting younger prospect (Alvarez/Marmoush). A sets the floor with a minimum number of goals, and B promises a ceiling with a maximum of their own. Assuming we give Hojlund the benefit of the doubt given his age, responsibility, circumstances, and pressure - he's still at best a B. We need the marquee stable reliable goalscorer who is more likely than not to get 20 goals a season across all comps, and that costs marquee money. That's what our summer signing should be - an A who at worst is a B, not another player who is as likely to end up with paltry numbers as he is to end up being a B. We need to Moneyball this position.

While the rest of the squad needs to step up, too (especially the 10s and the wing backs), in the absence of A you're left 36 goals in the league (2 OG). Scratch that, in our case (given Rashford, Amad, Zirkzee, and Martinez are out) you're left with a squad that has scored only 21 league goals all season - which is 3 worse than 20th placed Southampton. Frankly, INEOS have already failed miserably letting this pan out the way it did this season.

 

[Hammondo]

Rk	Squad	MP	W	D	L	GF ▼	GA	GD	Pts
1	Liverpool	32	23	7	2	74	31	43	76
2	Manchester City	33	17	7	9	64	42	22	58
3	Newcastle Utd	33	18	5	10	62	44	18	59
4	Tottenham	32	11	4	17	60	49	11	37
5	Arsenal	32	17	12	3	57	27	30	63
6	Chelsea	32	15	9	8	56	39	17	54
7	Brentford	33	13	7	13	56	50	6	46
8	Aston Villa	33	16	9	8	53	47	6	57
9	Brighton	33	12	12	9	53	53	0	48
10	Bournemouth	33	13	10	10	52	40	12	49
11	Nott'ham Forest	32	17	6	9	51	38	13	57
12	Fulham	32	13	9	10	47	43	4	48
13	Wolves	32	10	5	17	47	61	-14	35
14	Crystal Palace	33	11	11	11	41	45	-4	44
15	Manchester Utd	32	10	8	14	38	45	-7	38
16	West Ham	33	9	9	15	37	55	-18	36
17	Everton	33	8	14	11	34	40	-6	38
18	Ipswich Town	32	4	9	19	33	67	-34	21
19	Leicester City	32	4	6	22	27	72	-45	18
20	Southampton	33	2	5	26	24	78	-54	11

Bumping an old thread to see how the predictions are going.

Player	MP	Starts	Min	Gls ▼	Ast	G+A
Bruno Fernandes	31	31	2,636	8	9	17
Amad Diallo	22	17	1,594	6	6	12
Alejandro Garnacho	31	20	1,876	5	1	6
*Marcus Rashford	15	12	978	4	1	5
Rasmus Højlund	27	18	1,585	3	0	3
Joshua Zirkzee	32	14	1,402	3	1	4
Matthijs de Ligt	28	24	2,089	2	0	2
Lisandro Martínez	20	20	1,751	2	1	3
Manuel Ugarte Ribeiro	24	19	1,532	1	0	1
Harry Maguire	22	16	1,418	1	0	1
Casemiro	21	15	1,271	1	0	1

Losing Amad had such an impact on us.