Do we have enough goals in the squad?

Defense is our most pressing issue, if you've ever played football you'll know if the defense can hold their own the attackers would be more motivated to score more goals.
 
Insanity said:
A front four from Odegaard, Viera, Martinelli, Saka, Jesus, Havertz & Trossard scored 91 goals in 38 games last season. They scored 88 the season before last without Havertz.

Replace our attacking players with them and we'd still be asking the same question.
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Four of them are also really good finishers. Arguably Havertz too after last season. And they get more space, due to the faster way they play.

Compare that to Antony, an out-of-luck Rashford and a Højlund without much service.

I love Garnacho, but many times when he gets a chance he's mr. almost. Hopefully he can take that step up this season.

In total does make a big difference from Arsenal. Hopefully Ruud can make some miracles happen.
 
United’s problem of scoring goals is so much more of an issue than just looking at our strikers lack of goals and assists.

In CL or the PL we become a low block defensive counter attacking team that has 40-43% of the ball against good teams and rely on strikers being bang in form, if they are not like last season we see the obvious happen, knocked out at group stage of CL, finishing 8th in the EPL with 57 goals and a negative goal difference and only just reaching 60 points.

Style of Play
We still play the same formation as Jose and Ole Played 4231 counter attacking football, the difference was Jose formation was more narrow and compact, Ole had huge options with regard to strikers when we came second and his team scored 73 goals and for the record Jose team that got 81 points only scored 68 but we conceded very few, typical Jose team that was super compact and Ander Herrera and Matic with a on off pogba is miles ahead of what we currently have in the midfield.

ETH first season wanted to play the hybrid
4-1-4-1 (4-1-2-3) formation he gave up after 2 games, last year he tried to adapt that with huge gaps and space between midfield and defence and midfield and attack and ended up p…..ing off half the squad.

Jason Wilcox is the technical director and can clearly see how week our midfield is and easily the current team give the ball away far too frequently. It’s clear the targets for the summer are ; 1 FB who can play both sides, 2 CB’s, 1 True Athletic DM and a new CF. They’ve got two of the 5 but only if we sign M De Ligt, Mazraoui, Zubimendi(who is miles superior to Ugarte), J Zirkzee will we see a difference and it won’t be a huge one either, we’d need Ugarte and Zubimendi to see a breakthrough in style of play and get rid of Casemiro and Erikson as both players legs have gone.

Possession based Style;
If the club changes to 4231 possession based style where the team is closer together between the lines and more compact, we can set up like this at the start and as the team starts to get control of the ball, we can go full 3214 in possession. We need more goals and assists from full back and we need to have the front 4 and the subs for these positions on goal and assist bonuses.

This Team could be fantastic ;
A Onana
D Dalot, M De Ligt, L Martinez, L Shaw
Ugarte or M Zubimendi, K Mainoo,
Amad, Bruno, Rashford
J Zirkzee

And this team could also be excellent ;
A Bayinder,
N Mazraoui, H Maguire, L Yoro, H Amass
Casemiro, T Collyer,
Sancho, Mount, Garnacho,
R Hojlund

These players are all capable of keeping the ball and creating goals.

The coaching will need to improve immensely however to coach this new or Ajax original style which involves huge rotation of positions by the players and football intelligence.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Four of them are also really good finishers. Arguably Havertz too after last season. And they get more space, due to the faster way they play.

Compare that to Antony, an out-of-luck Rashford and a Højlund without much service.

I love Garnacho, but many times when he gets a chance he's mr. almost. Hopefully he can take that step up this season.

In total does make a big difference from Arsenal. Hopefully Ruud can make some miracles happen.
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The point I was trying to make is swap the players and we would be asking the same question. We definitely can do with a top notch striker; however, we need a much more proactive style of play if we are going to become a high scoring team. Simply adding a prime Ruud or RVP or Kane is not going to take our goal tally from the low 60's to high 80's or 90's.
 
Kag said:
We’ve also had periods where it’s been fine, and far from the biggest issue in the side.
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We haven’t had a top midfield since fergie left. When the only top class player we have bought that has actually produced in that time is Bruno, you know it’s been bad.
 
I am not worried about goals as much as I am worried by guys like Casemiro, Maguire and AWB still playing matches for us in the new season. This window, since the Yoro injury, has sucked all the optimism out of me.
 
We're still lacking the composure and confidence Infront of goal and I think it'll be a continual issue throughout the campaign.

I think we'll be defensively sound though.
 
FrankDrebin said:
We're still lacking the composure and confidence Infront of goal and I think it'll be a continual issue throughout the campaign.

I think we'll be defensively sound though.
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I was hoping that Garnacho may have a Ronaldoesque breakout season and get high 20’s. Not a great start on that yesterday though
 
Genuinely think we should get rid of Antony and buy a left inside forward to challenge Rashford, whilst having Amad and Garnacho battling it out on the right.
 
Fine margins. We should have scored 6 on Friday. I think our attacking players are good enough just need a little confidence and we will be fine. Zirkzee looks a good addition.
 
We have a lot of maybe's not ideal but at least we have that.

Rashford needs to find form in front of goal that's really important if we are going to kick on. Bruno needs more goals from open play. Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho and Amad have goals in them but also need to kick on.
 
We create chances, that is good. Taking them is another issue but I believe this will come good under Ruud
 
Escobar said:
We create chances, that is good. Taking them is another issue but I believe this will come good under Ruud
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A coach can give pointers and so on. We're not going see a notable improvement in finishing just because Ruud is on the staff.
 
The chances we missed were all low shots that the GK somehow saved. I don't know why they kept shooting it low after the first save.
 
Not hitting the target is a technical flaw, whether from close range or outside box, Utd players consistently lack the ability to hit the target. Lack of confidence or ability may cause you not to shoot, as we also see that, but the bigger issue is the technical flaw which absolutely can be improved.
 
tenpoless said:
The chances we missed were all low shots that the GK somehow saved. I don't know why they kept shooting it low after the first save.
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Especially the Mount chance. I felt like Bruno's chances could have been put between the goalkeepers legs. Mount really needed to lift it.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Genuinely think we should get rid of Antony and buy a left inside forward to challenge Rashford, whilst having Amad and Garnacho battling it out on the right.
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I'm sure we'd love to sell Sancho and Antony and bring in another wide player. Unfortunately, due to transfer fee paid and their wages we're stuck with them.
 
Dominos said:
I'm sure we'd love to sell Sancho and Antony and bring in another wide player. Unfortunately, due to transfer fee paid and their wages we're stuck with them.
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This is the problem. Over the years, we've been incredibly poor when at recruiting players. Hopefully, this will get better under INEOS.

Whether it be a loan or permanent move, I think Sancho will go, but I can't see Antony going.

Mazraoui actually mentioned that he had a really good connection with Antony and that he can't wait for that to start that connection again. I personally can't see Mazraoui making that much of a difference to Antony, but we'll most likely see him, Rashford, Garnacho and Amad as our options.
 
There's no such thing as clinical finishing in this squad.

I don't think it'll be as dire as it was last season but it won't be a huge improvement either. I could see us being around 60-65 goals in the league. The big difference this season is that if the back line doesn't suffer an injury crisis we might only concede 45 instead of 60, and that could be the difference between 8th and 4th or 5th.
 
Hoijlund - 13
Fernandez - 9
Zirkzee - 8
Garnacho - 8
Rashford - 7
Amad - 5

That’s realistic. And why we will finish 7th. We never score enough goals
 
Haven’t scored enough goals for 10 years really.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
That is unfortunately true. Van Persie was our last properly prolific goalscorer. We scored a feckton of goals in the 2019-20 season though.
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We scored 66 league goals in 19/20. And 73 in 20/21.

I don't think that's a feckton.

City regularly hit 90+, and that's the standard by which we have to match. Arsenal and Liverpool in their good seasons where they challenge for title are hitting 85+, 90+ league goals also.
 
Dominos said:
We scored 66 league goals in 19/20. And 73 in 20/21.

I don't think that's a feckton.

City regularly hit 90+, and that's the standard by which we have to match. Arsenal and Liverpool in their good seasons where they challenge for title are hitting 85+, 90+ league goals also.
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I meant a feckton as in in all competitions.
 
careca07 said:
Hoijlund - 13
Fernandez - 9
Zirkzee - 8
Garnacho - 8
Rashford - 7
Amad - 5

That’s realistic. And why we will finish 7th. We never score enough goals
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That assumes no improvement from last season from any player, which is hugely pessimistic. Garnacho and Hojland are likely to both improve their tallies IMO. I think you've also got to factor in Zirkzee has been signed specifically to get more out of our other attackers (Rashford for example has always performed best when he has a very technical striker to play with).
 
This is an obvious hole in our squad and we've done nothing to address this in this transfer window.

Let's have a look at Amad at RW for instance:

He played 60 minutes (against Fulham at home) at RW and provided 0 shots and 1 keypass (a corner that was overhit and Casemiro managed to get his head on - 0,02xG). Nothing from open play - 0,0xG and 0,02xA

Here is what some of the other notable teams in the league have on their right wings:

Brentford: Mbeumo
West Ham: Bowen
Spurs: B Johnson
Villa: Bailey
Chelsea: Palmer
Arsenal: Saka
Liverpool: Salah
City: Foden

Will we get an edge over these teams starting a player like Amad?

Zirkzee had the 60th highest npxG/90 (0,24) in Serie A last season and had 32 starts as a CF for the team finishing 5th. He doesn't ooze goals....

We have fans on this forum that wants us to start with Amad, Zirkzee, Garnacho in the front three while we wait for our 10 goal man (Hojlund) to get back from injury. That's a combined 29 non penalty career goals in the top 5 leagues in 145 games from the trio. I can name at least ten attacking trios in the PL alone that looks more potent than that trio. That would leave great reponsibility on Bruno and the midfield to provide goals. That's also why I like that ETH is playing Bruno up top and Mount behind him when Hojlund is out, and why I think it's wise to use Rashford (who is one of the "grown ups" in the attack) who is used to the pressure. In the long run I dont think Amad or Zirkzee are good enough to be starters at a top club in the PL, so it'll be exiting to see if they can elevate their game and prove me wrong. If one out of Amad, Zirkzee and Garnacho chips in with 10 goals in the league this season, that would be a pleasant surprise.

We seriously miss a top striker and goalscorer.
 
troylocker said:
Let's have a look at Amad at RW for instance:

He played 60 minutes (against Fulham at home) at RW and provided 0 shots and 1 keypass (a corner that was overhit and Casemiro managed to get his head on - 0,02xG). Nothing from open play - 0,0xG and 0,02xA
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A rather bizarre attack on a young player using a sample size of 60 minutes.
 
Dominos said:
A rather bizarre attack on a young player using a sample size of 60 minutes.
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Attack? He literally just gave a straight forward analysis with some dry numbers. Jesus wept, how does that constitute an attack?
 
Dominos said:
A rather bizarre attack on a young player using a sample size of 60 minutes.
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It's not an attack on Amad, he's a great guy for all I know. It's a summary of what he offered offensively in his last game for us and my opinion on him based on that and what I have seen of him since he came here 3,5 years ago. He is 22, and not 18 any more. How many games in the PL can we afford to play attackers without a single contribution towards the endproduct? We need goals and players who can contribute to goals occupying the front 4 spots. The eyetest of good technique and tidy passing through possesional distribution is not enough. You must provide a threat both on and off the ball and that's where I don't think Amad did enough last Friday to start the next match. It's a competitive sport after all.

His CV from the PL is also still very thin with only 13 games (only 6 starts) to his name and he has struggled to break into the team, but:
1 goals/2 assists
0,09xG/90
0,20xA/90
..... is really underwhelming.

I have little reason to believe that he will explode now. When you look at what our rivals field at RW (Foden, Palmer, Saka, Salah, Bailey, Bowen, BJ/Kulu) I will be very pleasantly surprised if he can match any of them in numbers at the end of the season. We scored 20 goals less than the second lowest in the top 8 last season and we probably need at least 20-25 more goals to get top 4 this season. Optimally all our attacking players chip in with at least 10 goals each and the starting striker minimum 20. We desperately need more goals in our squad, hence why I don't understand the Zirkzee transfer and why I don't think Amad or Zirkzee are good longterm starting options. That's my opinion.
 
A clinical striker with experience should have been a major priority in this window.
 
This season United are relying on players like Hojlund/Garnacho/Amad developing. Plus the return to form of Rashford. Along with the addition of Zirkzee.

I think overall there are question marks on every one of them, but sometimes you have to let the season play out and give them time.

Next summer you can target a WC attacker if the current group hasn’t shown signs of improvement.
 
RuudTom83 said:
This season United are relying on players like Hojlund/Garnacho/Amad developing. Plus the return to form of Rashford. Along with the addition of Zirkzee.

I think overall there are question marks on every one of them, but sometimes you have to let the season play out and give them time.

Next summer you can target a WC attacker if the current group hasn’t shown signs of improvement.
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I think the more important aspect is if we can control the midfield better.
 
ifightdragons said:
Attack? He literally just gave a straight forward analysis with some dry numbers. Jesus wept, how does that constitute an attack?
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A straightforward analysis suggesting a young player can't produce enough goals for us because he didn't have a shot in one 60 minute period. How about he actually gets to play some significant amount of games before we conclude he can't score goals?

His only full season in English football he scored 14 goals in 29 starts in the championship.

Not every player follows the same trajectory, he's a player who could take a little longer to reach his peak. Salah was getting booted out of chelsea at the age of 22 for not being good enough.
 
The answer is obviously no and only the usual blinkered postered believed that the addition of Amad and Zirkzee would significantly improve our attack.

I’ve said all summer this is a seriously average front line we have. The wingers and strikers are pretty average for a top side.

We will end the season with a similar number of goals as the previous seasons. The problems with ETH have been stated extensively and he is a massive problem too but the players in our forward positions are Europa league level and that’s what we are at the moment.
 
No. It's hilarious how we've spent so much and yet we'll be lucky to get 10 goals from Rashford, Højlund and Zirzkee each.
 
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