What a thing to say.You see I did defraud consumers but to be fair, I would have been one of the most successful businessman either way!
Do City leave you cold?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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What a thing to say.You see I did defraud consumers but to be fair, I would have been one of the most successful businessman either way!
I think the atmosphere at the Etihad plays a big part. Watching the game yesterday and the atmosphere didn't seem electric pre-match or throughout the gamem which you would expect in such a big game. It just felt like a run of the mill game for them rather than a potential title decider.
But do you disagree with my main point - that even if you gave every manager/club in the league a blank cheque, Pep’s teams would still be dominant? There is not a HUGE gap in quality between Ake, Akanji, Stones etc and other defensive line ups in the PL…so why do almost every other team look pedestrian in comparison? It’s because the guy is a fuking brilliant coach that gets the best out of players. We buy players and the almost always stagnate or regress it seems - that’s without even mentioning the systems we have played in/not played in over the years.
Money wise they are cretins but they also coach decent players to look like world beaters. I just don’t think you can sell pep short on money issues.
You're contradicting yourself.
Of course you can sell him short cause he's working on an unlimited budget and the budget is unlimited cause they cook the books.
It’s a completely Hypothetical but necessary question if we are trying to say, as many posters are, that city/peps achievements count for nothing.
You see I did defraud consumers but to be fair, I would have been one of the most successful businessman either way!
You should have been Lance Armstrongs lawyer. 'But your Honor he probably maybe might have beaten them even without the drugs.' ' oh fair point. Case dismissed.'
That’s obviously very theoretical at this stage but I don’t think that City would be dominant if they had 2 or 3 other teams doing the same from the moment of their takeover.
They rarely had any issues acquiring their targets. In the last 15 years I don’t remember Barca or RM raiding their team to snatch City’s best players (for example, like RM did with CR).
If KDB played for us, for example, I’m betting that each transfer window we would get stories how RM or Barca are close to signing him while this never happened with City even though KDB has been one of the best (if not the best) midfielders in the world in the past 8 years!
It is very nice to build a dominant force if no club in a world can poach your best players… Let’s see what will happen with Haaland as I risk a bet that no one will touch him unless City allows.
I fully agree with Solius that City is like playing FM with editor and pretending to be surprised that you win every game.
Necessary if you’re a City fan maybe
His barca side were the dullest most boring side Ive ever had the misfortune to watch. It was like listening to Steve davis talk about wallpaper samples
I watched City Arsenal yesterday, and although they created some brilliant chances and completely dominated play, I found myself utterly bored in between those few moments. Watching Ederson tripping over the ball for minutes on end, their defenders playing five a side for 5 minutes just takes away any excitement. They completely dominate and are a great team for sure, but they also utterly remove any tempo or intensity in games when playing like that. Unfortunately for this game in particular, Arsenal were terrible and completely toothless.
So yes, they leave me cold in terms of their achievement because we all know it's corrupt. In addition, their general play just leaves me thinking that they are destroying football from a financial perspective, but also the way Pep coaches his team is for me death of entertaining football. Few to no chances are taken in order to keep control and dominate. How is that entertaining unless all you care about is stats? From a leadership perspective, Pep is very interesting because he dictatates games like you want an enterprise to work. Play is standardised; everyone has clear roles and objectives, and mistakes should be avoided at all cost. From that perspective it is very interesting, but from an entertainment perspective, I just find them completely boring and uninteresting.
So yes, they leave me cold in terms of their achievement because we all know it's corrupt. In addition, their general play just leaves me thinking that they are destroying football from a financial perspective, but also the way Pep coaches his team is for me death of entertaining football. Few to no chances are taken in order to keep control and dominate. How is that entertaining unless all you care about is stats? From a leadership perspective, Pep is very interesting because he dictatates games like you want an enterprise to work. Play is standardised; everyone has clear roles and objectives, and mistakes should be avoided at all cost. From that perspective it is very interesting, but from an entertainment perspective, I just find them completely boring and uninteresting.
Yeah not for me. Anyway, I’m not here to battle with other Utd fans defending city. I don’t like city one bit but being Irish they don’t grind the gears for me as much as Liverpool. I just don’t think you can ignore the way Pep gets his teams playing and how much he improves players.
Ok its not selling him short for you but is it a fact they cooked the books and that he works on an unlimited budget? Despite the fact he is an amazing coach and gets his teams play great football and so on.
It's weird - last night I was watching them and I almost felt sorry for them. All this success...and it's hollow. It means nothing because they've cheated.
Ah cop on - we are not talking about whether they are guilty or not. We are asking if Pep’s achievements can be considered legitimately to be a direct result of the money spent and since we can’t run a fuking accurate simulation we have to consider hypothetical scenarios.
Give Eddie Howe the money Pep has spent at Newcastle - will they play a top brand of football, will they dominate domestically, will they be favourites in every European tie they play? Will Eddie Howe improve seemingly average players and get them playing consistently at high levels in a system? Could Eddie Howe rebuild a squad and keep players happy sitting on the bench? I don’t think he could. I don’t think many could - so in that regard - my answer is no, you can’t just ignore peps achievements because of the money.
I actually kinda like watching them.
It's football devoid of any emotion. Just pure football.
I don't care if they win or lose, sometimes even i enjoy watching them demolish teams who i dislike.
I have to say, i enjoyed them winning the titles vs Liverpool, making them second best never to be remembered as a great team.
They are irrelevant.
Yeah sure, there are fans of City, and yes, kids will probably grow up rooting for them in a couple of years, buying Haaland shirts and pretending to be the ugly cnut scoring for fun.....
But, sooner or later they will dwell back into obscurity.
As soon as Pep leaves them, and he will in a year or two, it's all over.
So, yeah, i think they leave everyone cold - emotion wise, well except for the kids. But even the kids, i think they're more into the Mbappes and Haalands then they are into City or PSG.
As soon as they go somewhere else, the kids will follow.
It's football devoid of any emotion. Just pure football.
I don't care if they win or lose, sometimes even i enjoy watching them demolish teams who i dislike.
I have to say, i enjoyed them winning the titles vs Liverpool, making them second best never to be remembered as a great team.
They are irrelevant.
Yeah sure, there are fans of City, and yes, kids will probably grow up rooting for them in a couple of years, buying Haaland shirts and pretending to be the ugly cnut scoring for fun.....
But, sooner or later they will dwell back into obscurity.
As soon as Pep leaves them, and he will in a year or two, it's all over.
So, yeah, i think they leave everyone cold - emotion wise, well except for the kids. But even the kids, i think they're more into the Mbappes and Haalands then they are into City or PSG.
As soon as they go somewhere else, the kids will follow.
Trouble is we don't know entirely if Pep is a good coach, because he has managed a club with the three of the best players ever in Barca, a club that dominated their league anyway and just hoovers up their oppositions players and a club that cheats to win. Eddie Howe has done a great job up to now. SAF did a brilliant job, Wenger did a brilliant job, various Liverpool managers did in their time, Brian Clough. Until he is at a club without those advantages we will never know how great Pep is.
The owners could of just picked any small club in the league and done the same thing, City are lucky they got the winning ticket it's irrelevant there just doing what's expected when you don't follow the same rules as every other club
Really?
Exactly. They bought them because they were cheap. They still act cheap.
Well they always say there was something dodgy about his Barca sides. He likely is, but I would like to see him have more of a test. Not automatically be given everything on a plate.
As much as he's cringe and a whiney fuk I actually admire more what has Klopp done at Liverpool. He buiuld the squad without working on an unlimited budget. Sure, he did spend, and him saying about how he'll quit if he spends 80, 100 million, whatever, is hypocritical as it gets but taking a team in disarray and building them up high is more remarkable then what Pep has been doing.
Jesus Christ.
If this is indeed a troll post, then you've got the 2023 award wrapped up and presented to you by Niall himself.
I mean, jeez, of course there's a correlation between Pep's success and the money that he/City have spent on the team.
He is risk averse, just like his teams. He has only managed teams where he has a very good chance of success or there are very few challenges to his potential success. He can experiment by spending £450m on his defence until he gets it just right, without fear that there will be repercussions. He can drop £100m on individual squad players every season and nobody questions him!
Give ETH, Klopp, even Ole that kind of backing and security and of course they will be successful.
Pep's achievements are admirable, but you can't talk about them without talking about the amount he has spent on players.
Eddie Howe is an excellent manger and is responsible for their success this season. Newcastle have some really average players but he has them playing and winning consistently and at a high level.
He's already shown this this season, and I'm pretty sure next season he will do it in Europe too.
The reason City's players are happy to sit on the bench is because they are paid stupid amounts of money. It really is that simple. He can just leave them on the bench or out of the squad if he wants, and know they won't kick up a fuss because I too would be happy to sit on my backside and watch a game of football for £550k a week.
I don't think Pep is as good a man manager as you think he is.
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Yeah I can see Hollywood buying the rights to the City script alright.
State buys club, invests billions and wins things.
It's a beautiful story.
I actually like Pep and wanted him to succeed SAF, and don’t mind him that much. He’s a great coach but I do agree with your point: he has a clear vision of how he wants to play and has his teams play and execute football at the highest technical levels out there but in order to do this, he needs players of the highest technical level - specific players with specific traits for specific positions, that can execute or it all comes crumbling down IMO. And usually these players all cost in the upper range of valuations in the sport.
He can afford to experiment and wouldn’t need to compromise with square pegs in round holes (look how he rid City of Hart etc). He’s ruthless, no doubt & has high standards but he’s been blessed with teams/squads of the highest calibre, unlimited money to replace and IMO, give him a “hit and miss” squad or players not suited to his style, city wouldn’t be this dominant.
I think a slight point of credit towards Pep though, which is often overlooked is that he never inherited “that” Barca team. He made big changes to the all-conquering old guard (Ronaldinho, Deco etc) iirc, & propelled them/contributed to what they became. Just how much did he contribute? That’s anyone’s guess because Messi would have been Messi, irrespective (I guess).
Just hope that one day their fans do that bloody Poznan and do themselves a mischief.
I mean he's definitely an excellent manager but he's had a generational Messi - Xavi - Iniesta Barca, a Bayern team that win the league every year regardless and then infinite money at City.
SAF had a generational team but then also managed to win leagues with Cleverley and Anderson in midfield.
SAF had a generational team but then also managed to win leagues with Cleverley and Anderson in midfield.
City are a magnificent team and have a great squad of players. I am looking forward to the years ahead when we can challenge them for everything again.
IndeedI mean compare that to the Busby Babes and Fergie fledglings. That's why they're a hollow club.
There's no overcoming adversity. It's just football business done well with loads of extra cash.
And they cooked the books. Maybe there is a Hollywood film after all.
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I meant to post this a few weeks ago but hadn't got round to it.
I was in the away end at the City-Leicester game a few weeks back, and I can comfortably say that the Etihad is the most soul-dead stadium I've been to.
Just like everything else about that club, everything is just so polished and it completely detracts from the atmosphere. Well, whatever atmosphere there is to detract from; the City fans barely sung a chant and the only time you'd even have noticed about three quarters of the ground was when they participated in their customary Poznan dance near the end.
A fittingly soulless matchday experience for a completely soulless team.
I was in the away end at the City-Leicester game a few weeks back, and I can comfortably say that the Etihad is the most soul-dead stadium I've been to.
Just like everything else about that club, everything is just so polished and it completely detracts from the atmosphere. Well, whatever atmosphere there is to detract from; the City fans barely sung a chant and the only time you'd even have noticed about three quarters of the ground was when they participated in their customary Poznan dance near the end.
A fittingly soulless matchday experience for a completely soulless team.
Pep doesn’t do adversity really. Sir Alex stuck by during our no value phase and built a new period of success he created himself by developing younger stars and adding some smart signings (VDS, Evra, Park, Vidic etc). Pep would jump to PSG or Bayern to pad his tally if that happened.I mean compare that to the Busby Babes and Fergie fledglings. That's why they're a hollow club.
There's no overcoming adversity. It's just football business done well with loads of extra cash.
And they cooked the books. Maybe there is a Hollywood film after all.
I think living in Manchester would cause more anger with City. I live quite far away and don't know any City fans so I was fairly content that they won as I'm friends with a lot of Arsenal. With Arsenal and Liverpool, I hate them more but respect them more.
I find City soulless and hollow due to the lack of support, money and alleged cheating. What is a worry is that if Pep stays for a long time, they could dominate but my gut instinct is he won't stay too long and it'll be open season again. They will definitely struggle when he leaves.
I find City soulless and hollow due to the lack of support, money and alleged cheating. What is a worry is that if Pep stays for a long time, they could dominate but my gut instinct is he won't stay too long and it'll be open season again. They will definitely struggle when he leaves.
I like watching them play as it is football at the highest order more often than not imho and they don‘t really have players I hate to see with a passion (say Ramos or Pepe level of the earlier RM era for example).
Indeed.
And here's the thing that really boils the piss of every city supporter.
They got picked because of us. Because being the underdog against the club across the city is the story they wanted to tell.
And every blue seat in the council house knows it.
I’m curious where it is in the rules in the PL or Uefa where they try to limit and punish clubs for investing and spending?
Or is it that the rules just draw a line under the absurd, like I don’t know, faking sponsorship deals or withholding financial accounts which would be against regulations in so many industries not just football.
Your fanbase are so fecking tiresome. Nobody ever said you can’t invest. The PL and Uefa are not trying to stop you. You’re Manchester City…. You’re not the mafia, have some self awareness,
Invest, buy players, just don’t fecking cheat, it’s that simple. You cheated and got caught. Accept it and move on, you’re probably going to get away with it again. Hell, embrace it even but stop the self pitying and whataboutery. You guys act like you’re the only team to have a multi million pound take over and spend money. Plenty clubs have, they just, you know, don’t cheat at the same time…
Did I write this?
If Pep is such a great coach, then why does he have to resort to cheating?
The onus isn't on us to say "Pep's great- trust us". It's on Pep to prove it. Why doesn't he go to a team like Spurs and win the league there? They pay managers top wages (hence they were able to hire Mourinho and Conte) and a nothing more than decent coach in Pochettino came within a whisker of winning a PL and a CL. Surely a "genius" like Pep can do that? The reality is that Pep hasn't proven himself to be better than the likes of Klopp or Mourinho because he needs refs to be bribed and blood bags to be burned (Barca) or breaking rules and records with spending (City- and the under the table bonuses and wage top ups are even more pernicious than their illegitimate transfer spending).
The only halfway legitimate job he took on was Bayern, where he took over a treble winning side, added the likes of Lewa and Thiago......and made them worse than they were under his predecessor. That's his legacy.
Even as a United fan I can’t say Pep made Bayern worse. Sure he didn’t win the Champions league but he continued the dominance and similar level of 2013.
The Madrid 4-0 sticks out as a low point yet he should have knocked Madrid out another year and luck went against Bayern.
Anyone could lose 4-0 on a one off game to that peak Madrid so those happen. Otherwise did pretty great.
They dominated games more but scored less goals while conceding about the same. He changed the way they played and it worked both at home and in Europe they went consistently deep into the CL. That’s fine.