Diogo Dalot | Done Deal | Speaks better English than Valencia

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VP89 said:
Because he's not an upgrade? He's an upgrade if he continues his trajectory, which we won't know for a season or two.. but this isn't a player you'd look to sign to immediately replace a 33 year old full back.

It's more my view that Valencia needs immediate replacing and Mourinho clearly thinks different. He's brought Dalot in for the future and we have had enough of those which end badly.

I'm not saying Dalot will flop. I'm not even suggesting it. I just don't see the excitement of a player who has 7 appearances in the Portuguese league.

OK he's a full back and we need full backs. I think a lot of posters are just happy to see a full back more than anything else. We did the same with Darmien when he joined.
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How about being excited about having a potentially huge talent on our hands?
You're concentrating too much on 7 first team appearances. That's what scouts are for to find a prospect even before he comes on the big stage.
Ronaldo had about 20 appearances for Sporting before we bought him. I'm not saying Dalot is that caliber just making a picture.
Or at least leave us to rejoice for something in this miserable place.
 
RedSky said:
It's status quo, any young player linked to us are incredible.

If he isn't ready to be a full term part of Portos squad then I doubt he'll be ready for us for a while. So guess we're stuck with Valencia/Young at RB for the forseeable future. Sigh.
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You should see how much flak a few posters gave me for suggesting that signing a young kid with 8 first team appearances might not be compatible with everyone's stated desire to improve our full back positions with a view to challenging for the league this season.

I feel sorry for the kid with the amount of expectation people are pilling onto him.
 
Ban said:
How about being excited about having a potentially huge talent on our hands?
You're concentrating too much on 7 first team appearances. That's what scouts are for to find a prospect even before he comes on the big stage.
Ronaldo had about 20 appearances for Sporting before we bought him. I'm not saying Dalot is that caliber just making a picture.
Or at least leave us to rejoice for something in this miserable place.
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I have no problem with others getting carried away. I just dont feel the excitement in this transfer and I've explained why.

For every Ronaldo there's a Bebe, Obertan, dong, Djemba Djemba, Buttner, De Laet, etc.
 
NinjaFletch said:
You should see how much flak a few posters gave me for suggesting that signing a young kid with 8 first team appearances might not be compatible with everyone's stated desire to improve our full back positions with a view to challenging for the league this season.
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I've been on the Caf long enough to know that those that talk common sense often receive flak.

It's not comparable to the Ronaldo transfer either given he had almost a full season at Porto before getting his transfer here. With Dalot he was brought in as an emergency to fill in for Texes and was quickly pushed out of the squad when he returned from injury. But i'll stay quiet about that and just chant Transfer over and over again.
 
VP89 said:
I have no problem with others getting carried away. I just dont feel the excitement in this transfer and I've explained why.

For every Ronaldo there's a Bebe, Obertan, dong, Djemba Djemba, Buttner, De Laet, etc.
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You're the glass is half empty kind of guy? :)
 
roonster09 said:
You are over playing Ribalta's position here. Only person who can overrule Jose is Woodward, after him Jose is the boss and that's how it is at ManUtd. Ribalta isn't even DoF, he is just head of scouting. If we are signing for academy then it will have nothing to do with Jose, if we are signing for first team and that too paying 20 million then Jose will be giving his inputs on whether to sign a player or not.

In short, Ribalta might have scouted him but it's Jose who will make the last decision. Also considering we are signing from Portuguese league and especially Porto where Jose will have lot of contacts, I would say this is Jose's signing.
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No, I am not overplaying Ribalta's position, we have changed scouting system. Ed Woodward needs a advice from scouting department about the target, we just can't go say "OK OK, get whatever you want, we'll deliver for you". Jose didn't have same powers as SAF in giving a final say before, that is one of the reasons why we went after Monchi last summer before he went to Roma. I'm sure next managers won't have a say in this matter after Jose. Ribalta has experience of dealing with young players at Juve. As far as I know, Jose didn't sign younger at the big club in top 5 leagues, it is all down to the director football at Chelsea and Real Madrid.
 
Ban said:
How about being excited about having a potentially huge talent on our hands?
You're concentrating too much on 7 first team appearances. That's what scouts are for to find a prospect even before he comes on the big stage.
Ronaldo had about 20 appearances for Sporting before we bought him. I'm not saying Dalot is that caliber just making a picture.
Or at least leave us to rejoice for something in this miserable place.
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Thank you for making this point. These are the same groups of fans who want us to sign the next Messi. I think there was a thread here not too long ago.
 
VP89 said:
I have no problem with others getting carried away. I just dont feel the excitement in this transfer and I've explained why.

For every Ronaldo there's a Bebe, Obertan, dong, Djemba Djemba, Buttner, De Laet, etc.
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None of those players were as highly regarded as Dalot is at the moment. They were all really blind punts. Dalot played as 19 year old out of position, and did help keep Liverpool to a goal less draw in one of those games.

So let's say we buy Sidibe, and Dalot rejects us due to a lack of first team breakthrough opportunities. 2 years down the road, if Dalot continues his progress and turns into a top RB, are we going to spend 60m on him?
 
gr3yham3 said:
None of those players were as highly regarded as Dalot is at the moment. They were all really blind punts. Dalot played as 19 year old out of position, and did help keep Liverpool to a goal less draw in one of those games.

So let's say we buy Sidibe, and Dalot rejects us due to a lack of first team breakthrough opportunities. 2 years down the road, if Dalot continues his progress and turns into a top RB, are we going to spend 60m on him?
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A big IF in that scenario, and a big assumption in bold.
 
gr3yham3 said:
None of those players were as highly regarded as Dalot is at the moment. They were all really blind punts. Dalot played as 19 year old out of position, and did help keep Liverpool to a goal less draw in one of those games.

So let's say we buy Sidibe, and Dalot rejects us due to a lack of first team breakthrough opportunities. 2 years down the road, if Dalot continues his progress and turns into a top RB, are we going to spend 60m on him?
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Nope, the Cafe is going to start a new thread - 'why don't we ever sign talented young players?'
 
Might even be a smoke-screen. Media know little, they were saying Morata and Michael Keane were close to signing last summer. We seem to negotiate intensely even with second choice targets only to leave them in the lurch when the first choices become feasible.
 
Sanche7 said:
Nope, the Cafe is going to start a new thread - 'why don't we ever sign talented young players?'
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See this is a problem.

There isn't a single poster here who is necessarily against this transfer. We are all advocates of signing young players.

It is not sufficient for this season however, given the circumstances is very much make or break for our manager. Dalot and another would be fine. Maybe itl happen, but it probably won't.
 
RedSky said:
Memphis? etc etc

The flip coin to those being excited about signing an inexperienced young player is that it means we're likely not to get an experienced RB in to challenge Valencia. That to me is far more concerning and you could argue actually a bad use of our resources.

If however we still do sign an experienced RB to challenge Valencia... happy days.
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Think an experienced LB should be more of a priority along with a CB and fred as a minimum. Then another CM/RW would complete our business.
 
Mihai said:
Who are they? Sorry for asking, it's great if we are really after promising players.
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"If Embalo is going to Manchester is something that I don’t know at all, but it’s true that we have already met with Benfica and Manchester United, there is no agreement, but there are conversations." according to his agent.
 
VP89 said:
A big IF in that scenario, and a big assumption in bold.
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Ok I forgot to add "none of those players bar Ronaldo were as highly regarded". Bebe, Obertan, Dong Fang Zhuo, Djemba Djemba, Buttner, De Laet - who knew of them when they signed for us? I think Rafael did not play a game for the senior team before he joined us as well? Turned out well enough if not for his injuries and LvG's dislike of Brazilians. Even the Ronaldo transfer had a stroke of luck to it as I remember we were linked more with Quaresma at that time, before Ronaldo had that stormer of a game against us in a friendly. I remember watching that match and was hoping we would sign that young winger as soon as possible.

We do have other positions that we need to get quality in, and we cannot just keep spending as if there is no tomorrow. Sidibe will also want more wages than Dalot, so that could be one of the considerations as well.
 
mitchmouse said:
to be fair, I still think Lindelof will come good. Rather have him and Bailly than the disaster duo (Small/Jones)
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I have to agree to some extent. Lindelof started off poorly, but his more recent showings have been pretty solid and shows his character when under pressure to perform and his willingness to work on his weaknesses. It's like a reverse-Darmian situation, who started off rather well but turned to jelly as the season went by.
 
RedSky said:
Memphis? etc etc

The flip coin to those being excited about signing an inexperienced young player is that it means we're likely not to get an experienced RB in to challenge Valencia. That to me is far more concerning and you could argue actually a bad use of our resources.

If however we still do sign an experienced RB to challenge Valencia... happy days.
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Absolutely. I'm always happy when we sign talented kids but we need first choice FBs.
 
gr3yham3 said:
Ok I forgot to add "none of those players bar Ronaldo were as highly regarded". Bebe, Obertan, Dong Fang Zhuo, Djemba Djemba, Buttner, De Laet - who knew of them when they signed for us? I think Rafael did not play a game for the senior team before he joined us as well? Turned out well enough if not for his injuries and LvG's dislike of Brazilians. Even the Ronaldo transfer had a stroke of luck to it as I remember we were linked more with Quaresma at that time, before Ronaldo had that stormer of a game against us in a friendly. I remember watching that match and was hoping we would sign that young winger as soon as possible.

We do have other positions that we need to get quality in, and we cannot just keep spending as if there is no tomorrow. Sidibe will also want more wages than Dalot, so that could be one of the considerations as well.
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Obertan was heard of, Buttner was quite heard of I remember. He had lots of appearances at Vitesse prior to joining. Djemba Djemba was also heard of in France.

And let's be honest 99% of the guys in here had no clue who Dalot was. We were busy making puns for 3 pages whilst the 1% of posters that did gave their opinion and others got excited from it.

Our wage bill should be sufficient. We will lose Carrick and Fellaini, we lost Zlatan to net our with Sanchez but we also let Rooney go, who was on ridiculous wages. On top of that we are selling Darmien and open to losing Blind/Shaw.
 
RedSky said:
I've been on the Caf long enough to know that those that talk common sense often receive flak.

It's not comparable to the Ronaldo transfer either given he had almost a full season at Porto before getting his transfer here. With Dalot he was brought in as an emergency to fill in for Texes and was quickly pushed out of the squad when he returned from injury. But i'll stay quiet about that and just chant Transfer over and over again.
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You sound extremely upset about this transfer for some weird reason. I get it if you think we need an established RB instead of Valencia and we might still get that, but you keep going on about how he only played 7 games and got “pushed out”, as if he was literally born the day before his debut and never played any youth football at international tournaments and never showcased his potential there.

People are excited because the kid has world-class potential, nothing more, nothing less, I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand. The excitement is to do with his potential and talent and not to do with his readiness or lack thereof to be a starting RB for us.
 
NYAS said:
You sound extremely upset about this transfer for some weird reason. I get it if you think we need an established RB instead of Valencia and we might still get that, but you keep going on about how he only played 7 games and got “pushed out”, as if he was literally born the day before his debut and never played any youth football at international tournaments and never showcased his potential there.

People are excited because the kid has world-class potential, nothing more, nothing less, I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand. The excitement is to do with his potential and talent and not to do with his readiness or lack thereof to be a starting RB for us.
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99% of the caf hadnt even heard of the world class potential a week ago. If he was making so much waves at youth level, where was his thread?

I mean its perfectly normal to not be super duper excited by this transfer.
 
NYAS said:
You sound extremely upset about this transfer for some weird reason. I get it if you think we need an established RB instead of Valencia and we might still get that, but you keep going on about how he only played 7 games and got “pushed out”, as if he was literally born the day before his debut and never played any youth football at international tournaments and never showcased his potential there.

People are excited because the kid has world-class potential, nothing more, nothing less, I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand. The excitement is to do with his potential and talent and not to do with his readiness or lack thereof to be a starting RB for us.
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I feel the term "world class potential" is being used too frivolously here.
 
VP89 said:
Obertan was heard of, Buttner was quite heard of I remember. He had lots of appearances at Vitesse prior to joining. Djemba Djemba was also heard of in France.

And let's be honest 99% of the guys in here had no clue who Dalot was. We were busy making puns for 3 pages whilst the 1% of posters that did gave their opinion and others got excited from it.

Our wage bill should be sufficient. We will lose Carrick and Fellaini, we lost Zlatan to net our with Sanchez but we also let Rooney go, who was on ridiculous wages. On top of that we are selling Darmien and open to losing Blind/Shaw.
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Yes they were heard of, but none of them were as highly regarded. People said Obertan was very raw, and Buttner had lots of appearances yet did not attract any interest from other top teams. Dalot has been eyed by other top teams and has at least played international youth football at all levels. From the few clips that can be found as well as testimonies from Porto fans, he is also very mature on the pitch for his age, and is a physical specimen - all the makings of a good defender.

Our wage bill might not be a problem, but let's just say we get Carrick, Fellaini, Darmian and Blind off our wage bill. Fred will most likely take Fellaini's wages, a new CB like Toby will take Carrick's, a new LB like Sandro will definitely take more than what Blind is earning now, and if we go for Sidibe, he will also want more than what Darmian was getting. So if we get, if I dare hazard I guess, a player like Griezmann or Bale for our RW? Not to mention that we still have to pay Valencia's wages, who will be benched most of the time due to Sidibe's presence. Valencia is quite a liability offensively, I agree, but his defensive work and 1v1 against attackers is actually quite okay. And if Jose, who should know the Portugeuse players well, Ribalta and the various Porto watchers think that Dalot will be our first choice RB not long after he joins us, and be a better player that what Sidibe is at the moment, then I am all in for it.
 
deafepl said:
No, I am not overplaying Ribalta's position, we have changed scouting system. Ed Woodward needs a advice from scouting department about the target, we just can't go say "OK OK, get whatever you want, we'll deliver for you". Jose didn't have same powers as SAF in giving a final say before, that is one of the reasons why we went after Monchi last summer before he went to Roma. I'm sure next managers won't have a say in this matter after Jose. Ribalta has experience of dealing with young players at Juve. As far as I know, Jose didn't sign younger at the big club in top 5 leagues, it is all down to the director football at Chelsea and Real Madrid.
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We don't have DoF and Ribalta doesn't have that much power. We don't pay 20 million just for the sake of it, unless manager is convinced of the player.
 
MJJ said:
99% of the caf hadnt even heard of the world class potential a week ago. If he was making so much waves at youth level, where was his thread?

I mean its perfectly normal to not be super duper excited by this transfer.
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I think because defenders are usually off-the-radar till they make their first team breakthroughs and become a regular in their teams. Only the clubs with extensive scouting networks will know of them. People like us will usually only hear about the latest flashy young attacker coming out from a club's production line.
 
It would seem that Jose cannot win. He’s being seen as targeting ‘past it’ 29 year olds or shot in the dark teenagers.
My own personal concern with this one, is that it is very likely that Valencia will remain as first choice RB and we all know that attacks die on the right side once the ball reaches his feet.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
It would seem that Jose cannot win. He’s being seen as targeting ‘past it’ 29 year olds or shot in the dark teenagers.
My own personal concern with this one, is that it is very likely that Valencia will remain as first choice RB and we all know that attacks die on the right side once the ball reaches his feet.
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If we had a right winger, they wouldn't. We don't.
 
For the record, as much as I'm excited for the signing, I've been head of the Valencia is very much past it movement for a long time, and I'll be angry and confused if he's still first choice at the start of the season.
 
MJJ said:
99% of the caf hadnt even heard of the world class potential a week ago. If he was making so much waves at youth level, where was his thread?

I mean its perfectly normal to not be super duper excited by this transfer.
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Hold on, you’re using the Caf as the measuring stick here? Really?

VP89 said:
I feel the term "world class potential" is being used too frivolously here.
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Not really. Can you name me a RB in his age group that has shown more potential?
 
gr3yham3 said:
Yes they were heard of, but none of them were as highly regarded. People said Obertan was very raw, and Buttner had lots of appearances yet did not attract any interest from other top teams. Dalot has been eyed by other top teams and has at least played international youth football at all levels. From the few clips that can be found as well as testimonies from Porto fans, he is also very mature on the pitch for his age, and is a physical specimen - all the makings of a good defender.

Our wage bill might not be a problem, but let's just say we get Carrick, Fellaini, Darmian and Blind off our wage bill. Fred will most likely take Fellaini's wages, a new CB like Toby will take Carrick's, a new LB like Sandro will definitely take more than what Blind is earning now, and if we go for Sidibe, he will also want more than what Darmian was getting. So if we get, if I dare hazard I guess, a player like Griezmann or Bale for our RW? Not to mention that we still have to pay Valencia's wages, who will be benched most of the time due to Sidibe's presence. Valencia is quite a liability offensively, I agree, but his defensive work and 1v1 against attackers is actually quite okay. And if Jose, who should know the Portugeuse players well, Ribalta and the various Porto watchers think that Dalot will be our first choice RB not long after he joins us, and be a better player that what Sidibe is at the moment, then I am all in for it.
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Again there is just a bucket load of assumptions here. Like us buying Dalot must mean he was bought because he's highly rated and the same logic from our scouts never applied to previous talents that flopped.

There are lots of players who shine through the ranks but fail on the final jump up, like Adan Januzaj for example. You have people sharing Dalot is a potential world class talent and it just doesn't add up for a player with 7 senior apps.

It doesn't matter what spin you put on it, whether it's "we have good scouts now" or "our manager is Portuguese", it doesn't change the fact that it is a big gamble. It may well be a gamble that pays off (Liverpool and Robertson) but I just don't think it's a gamble we can afford to take.
 
NYAS said:
Hold on, you’re using the Caf as the measuring stick here? Really?



Not really. Can you name me a RB in his age group that has shown more potential?
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No. But in what does this mean that this guy has shown potential?
 
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