Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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You forget that the way we are set-up it is hard for any other forward to get enough games to get into double figures. Before the injury Owen was fit for a long time and hardly got a look-in and Berbs never started the big games.
Defoe would be in the same boat.

He wouldn't be in the same boat as Owen because if we had him instead of Berbatov, he would've been first choice (with Wayne) in the 442 and second choice (after Wayne) in the 433/451.

He would've had plenty of game time (as much as Owen and Berbatov have had between them), and I do believe he would've done more with it than Berbatov has.

He probably would've got a fecking hat-trick for us on Sunday for a start!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's the answer to our problems or anything like that - I just believe he's one of many strikers who'd have done us a lot more good this season.

Buying Dimitar Berbatov was ultimately, a mistake.

I'm saddened that he hasn't worked out, and I will genuinely wish him well, but it's time to read the writing on the wall.
 
Fergie has thrown 4-4-2 in the dustbin as a serious tactic. I have no doubt Berbs was bought as a lone striker with the idea of playing Rooney as an inside-left forward.
 
it's such a waste that all that talent hasn't been able to fit into our team, but some of the insults on here towards him are appalling.
i understand that we're all very frustrated with some of his performances, but reading some posts here, would make you think that a small percentage of you are discussing a player from a rival team - not one of ours!
yes i know it's a fans forum blah blah blah, and i realise we're all allowed our freedom of discussion, but some people here are quite hateful, and i really can't see what good that achieves, other than to make to look very nasty people
 
it's such a waste that all that talent hasn't been able to fit into our team, but some of the insults on here towards him are appalling.
i understand that we're all very frustrated with some of his performances, but reading some posts here, would make you think that a small percentage of you are discussing a player from a rival team - not one of ours!
yes i know it's a fans forum blah blah blah, and i realise we're all allowed our freedom of discussion, but some people here are quite hateful, and i really can't see what good that achieves, other than to make to look very nasty people
Well said. To some on here he is as popular as pedophile teaching at a primary school.
 
Not a chance. Owen will never be picked ahaed of Berbtov for lone forward role. We all know this already.


why not? Owen is comfortable in the lone striker role and he knows where the net is. Lets face it he is a much better finisher then Berba would ever be and if SAF sees Owen as similar to Rooney then he should be leading the line (in Rooney's absence) and not Berba
 
Is Owen even going to be around next season ? Mind you, he's a cheap option so, answering my own question, he probably will be !
 
Because when he was fit this year he never got picked ahead of Berbatov in any role. It's time you faced it

Owen is comfortable in the lone striker role and he knows where the net is.
He has never been comfo5tbale ins cuah role.

Lets face it he is a much better finisher then Berba would ever be and if SAF sees Owen as similar to Rooney then he should be leading the line (in Rooney's absence) and not Berba
Owen will not be picked ahead of Berbatov for a lone forward role. SAF has already shown this. We don't have to face Owen being a better finisher or SAF seeing him similar similar to Rooney to know that.:D

IMO what we need is to bring in a player who can do Rooney's job, who will be ahead of both Berbatov and Owen for that Rooney role. As Berbatov and Owen become the under study pairing to them.
 
Lessons learnt from the Berbatov's experience

While its evident that Berba had not fitted in our system, I think that his contribution had taught us a big big lesson ie the time when we could afford having forwards which are specialised in one thing is over. Nowadays a United's type of forward must be able to score but also he must have pace, he must be able to drop deep and win the ball and he must also be able to pass the ball in an efficient way. I won't be surprised that in the present setup a Cole or a Yorke would be more efficient to the side then a Cantona or a Ruud.
 
Because when he was fit this year he never got picked ahead of Berbatov in any role. It's time you faced it

A decision which SAF himself had claimed to regret.

He has never been comfo5tbale ins cuah role.Owen will not be picked ahead of Berbatov for a lone forward role. SAF has already shown this. We don't have to face Owen being a better finisher or SAF seeing him similar similar to Rooney to know that.:D
I still hold my reserves towards whether Owen can cover that role or not. At his heights Owen was a fantastic striker who could seriously challenge Rooney for the first team place. Stating that he had lost a yard of pace till then and his injury record is far from encouraging. Stating that I doubt that he could do worse than Berba in that particular role.



IMO what we need is to bring in a player who can do Rooney's job, who will be ahead of both Berbatov and Owen for that Rooney role. As Berbatov and Owen become the under study pairing to them.
At the end of the day that is the optimal solution. Stating that do we have the money for such move? If the answer is no then Owen can prove a cheap alternative that maybe could work.
 
Berbatov only gets so much stick because of his attitude and body language, its not because he misses chances. Fans don't want to see someone sulking, not busting a gut for 90 minutes and having a go at teammates all game. He makes himself a target with his attitude. He may have more talent in his little toe than Tevez, Smith, and Forlan put together but if he doesn't give half as much as on pitch and the fans notice it.
 
He has done more than enough to guarantee his stay here IMO. He is the only former Liverpool, English player I'd like to see lift an EPL trophy.

I quite like Owen but he really is high risk. He's injury prone - so you never know when he'll let you down (uinitentionally of course) and frankly he's nowhere near the player he was.

I think if Fergie wants four specialist strikers, he has at present Rooney, Berbatov, Owen, Hernandez,Macheda and Welbeck to choose from. Possibly either Macheda or Welbeck (or both) will go out on loan next season to get them a bit more experience. That leaves us with four but can we rely on Berba and Owen even in backup roles ? Not really from this season's experience. I have no idea what Hernandez can do but perhaps, with a bit of luck, he'll turn out to be ok so that he and Rooney carry the attack. That would indicate, if Owen and Berba stay, that Fergie would not necessarily go for another striker but rather concentrate on a creative midfielder instead.

Ideally I would like to see a top quality striker brought in and a midfielder. Then again it depends if the Glazers' want that 25m they have promised themselves and, if so, they are prepared to dip into their 75m credit facility.
Of course if Berba is sold, and given this season and most fans reaction to his performances - it might be difficult for him to stay, what we get for him could dictate who we are able to get as a replacement.
 
this thread is a monster with nearly 4,000 posts and 250,000 views.
I bet some of those are journos'
 
I didn't want to post here for a coupe of days just to let myself cool down a bit. As a big supporter of Berba, I was feeling angry, ashamed and sorry at the same time. It just blows my mind that a player with so much natural talent can dig himself into such a hole, emotionally. For me, this is the biggest reason why he is missing all chances. Complete lack of confidence combined with a desperation to prove himself has turned into a nightmare.
I just wish that he finds the strength to bounce back and be the player that he can be, whether at United, I really hope so, or at another club.
 
Berbatov only gets so much stick because of his attitude and body language, its not because he misses chances. Fans don't want to see someone sulking, not busting a gut for 90 minutes and having a go at teammates all game. He makes himself a target with his attitude. He may have more talent in his little toe than Tevez, Smith, and Forlan put together but if he doesn't give half as much as on pitch and the fans notice it.

This.

I do not care what he cost. I do not care if he makes mistakes. But look at all the stick Flectch got. What did he do. I will work harder. I will earn the right to wear the shirt. All I ask is that when you walk off the pitch you gave your all. I mean look at Evra's howler at Bayern. He is forgiven instantly because of how he acts and how he works.
 
Berbatov only gets so much stick because of his attitude and body language, its not because he misses chances. Fans don't want to see someone sulking, not busting a gut for 90 minutes and having a go at teammates all game. He makes himself a target with his attitude. He may have more talent in his little toe than Tevez, Smith, and Forlan put together but if he doesn't give half as much as on pitch and the fans notice it.
Its more than that. Not taking chances, missing chances, not being in dangerous positions, not really being in the game, it is actually a big problem
 
I didn't want to post here for a coupe of days just to let myself cool down a bit. As a big supporter of Berba, I was feeling angry, ashamed and sorry at the same time. It just blows my mind that a player with so much natural talent can dig himself into such a hole, emotionally. For me, this is the biggest reason why he is missing all chances. Complete lack of confidence combined with a desperation to prove himself has turned into a nightmare.
I just wish that he finds the strength to bounce back and be the player that he can be, whether at United, I really hope so, or at another club.

My sentiments exactly! I will just quote you AGrade, if that's ok.
Hope the man finds strength within himself and overcome what is turning into a nightmare
But hey, the night is darkest before the dawn, right?
 
I didn't want to post here for a coupe of days just to let myself cool down a bit. As a big supporter of Berba, I was feeling angry, ashamed and sorry at the same time. It just blows my mind that a player with so much natural talent can dig himself into such a hole, emotionally. For me, this is the biggest reason why he is missing all chances. Complete lack of confidence combined with a desperation to prove himself has turned into a nightmare.
I just wish that he finds the strength to bounce back and be the player that he can be, whether at United, I really hope so, or at another club.

Top teams (and even Leeds United) have a couple of trick cyclists on staff to deal with the players' psychological issues. Whoever is treating Berba has his work cut out.
 
Am I the only one who thinks he should stay at the club?

Yes, I am, probably.

(I do think we need to have another forward).

So, as a substitute. Perhaps. Such a shame.
 
Am I the only one who thinks he should stay at the club?

Yes, I am, probably.

(I do think we need to have another forward).

So, as a substitute. Perhaps. Such a shame.

No

I don' see the point in shipping him, unless he wants to leave.
 
Perhaps but his status as our record signing and he is down the pecking order - behind lesser known and inexperienced players - that would be disheartening for anyone let alone Berba.

If Berba become more marginalised how would that help his confidence? I understand the point you are making but then does it make sense to keep him as third or fourth choice?
For me it does. He and Owen look like they work well together. They can be an alternative partnership to call on when we decide to rest a Rooney and his first choice replacement to play 4-4-2.

IMO what has killed Berbatov the most is being on a pedestal that he simply couldn't measure up to. From being bought for 30m, to being the first go to man to replace Rooney in a lone forward role. It's possible ala Shenngham he could thrive in a back up role. I remember Teddy struggling in his first year because he was looked at as Cantona's replacement. Yet the following season, when Yorke had taken the first choice role, Teddy came to life.
The same could happen with Berbatov. I'd rather we tried that than take a hit on the 30m we spent on him. IMO as back up he'd be pretty useful to have a round. A return of 12 league goals from a back up forward wouldn't be bad at all.
 
Am I the only one who thinks he should stay at the club?

Yes, I am, probably.

(I do think we need to have another forward).

So, as a substitute. Perhaps. Such a shame.

No you are not the only one.

I think the majority of the fans have had a real bad impact on him, they already had some a-prioris from his time at Tottenham and so they were kind of waiting for him to fail. He is a player who thrives on confidence and if our fans cannot provide enough support for their own players because they rather see a Real Madrid-esque transfer like Benzema or such, then that's really bad and unworthy of being called a United supporter.

The bottom line is SAF knows best and I think that he is aware of the potential of Berbatov. Despite all of this non-sense attacks on him, if we were to be objective, his contribution is not that bad (Someone mentioned that he has been the best back up second striker of the PL).

The moment we sold Ronaldo and that headless running chicken, there were always going to be some knee-jerk reactions and some people expecting us to fail. From the first game, Berbatov was designed as the classical scapegoat for our bad performances in a season with constant injuries and instabilities in the team. I am just sad that this knee jerk reactions has gone to affect some good posters on here.
 
Chief

You are going to take a hit on Berba whether you keep him or sell him.
We only take a hit on him if we sell him. If we don't sell him, and keep him as back up and he shines. We have lost nada. After all we bought him to strengthen our thin striker options. No to be first choice as some repeatedly assume.

Now could that £25m be better spent for a backup player? If the minimum he has to perform is equaling Berba record?
Why go and spend 25m on someone to come in and do what Berba does now? Does it make any sense?

I'd rather spend 25m on some who can do more than what Berbatov does now and properly cover Rooney. Leaving Berbatov to continue his budding partnership with Owen, with out the pressure of being the go to man to bail us out in Rooney's absence. We'd be a stronger side that way with a deeper squad.

I'd only sell a Berbatov if we are too broke to add without selling. Because in two years time one of Macheda, Welbeck or King should develop sufficiently to replace him and Owen.
 
...
Berba was not bought to be a second striker- his performances lead him to become marginalized. ...
No. He was bought to add options to our thin striking options. He only edged ahead of Tevez in our pecking order because Tevez was looked at as similar to Rooney. The way Owen is now.

He has also become first choice cover for Rooney now, simply because we've not had any better option available all season long to be the big man. IMO succeeding in signing a Benzema or having Macheda fit all year would have changed that. Unfortunately for us that never happened.

Thus, bearing in mind SAF wanted Benzema even though Berbatov was still here. We can safely assume he will probably do the same this coming summer.
 
Thought this was a decent read considering a lot blame seems to be directed at our short comings this season has been directed at Berbatov.

Dimitar Berbatov the scapegoat as United title hopes fade | Daniel Taylor | Football | The Guardian

Dimitar Berbatov the scapegoat as United's title hopes fade
Victory at Sunderland proves hardly satisfying as fans examine the reasons for United's decline

In the circumstances, it was a Manchester United performance of class and achievement. Sir Alex Ferguson's players were quick to the ball, their passing was crisp and it was not until the final whistle that their body language betrayed them.

For a few seconds they just stood around, unsure perhaps how to react or whether it was appropriate to look pleased with themselves. Slowly, they started to move among one another, shaking hands, nodding in appreciation of each other's work but very little was said and it was all tinged with unmistakeable sadness.

They had just become only the third Premier League side to beat Sunderland on their own ground this season but the celebrations were restrained to say the least. No bearhugs, no piggy-backs, no let's-all-have-a-disco. Nobody even punched the air. Footballers usually like to get a bit silly when they have won away from home. But here was Rio Ferdinand with his hands on his hips. Paul Scholes looked like he had just lost the biggest match of his life. Dimitar Berbatov, on an afternoon of personal humiliation, headed straight down the tunnel. The others followed slowly; a brief clap to the away fans from just outside the centre circle but noticeably no closer and then they were gone.

Nani's 27th-minute goal had ensured the season must go to its final day before Chelsea can prise the championship trophy away from Old Trafford. Or, to put it another way, United had managed to prolong the agony for another week. Football can be a strange game and maybe Wigan Athletic can pull off something extraordinary at Stamford Bridge next Sunday but, then again, the chances are they probably won't. Wigan have taken only 11 points out of a possible 54 on their travels this season. They drew at Stamford Bridge two seasons ago with a last-minute goal from Emile Heskey, but Ferguson summed it up succinctly when he said: "Listen, we are clutching at straws a little bit."

And so, barring one last feat of escapology that would exceed anything David Blaine has done, the championship trophy will be leaving Old Trafford after three years. United have lost seven times in the league and there is a blame culture in football that means individuals will always be identified for special criticism. In this case, Berbatov has become the popular scapegoat and it is undeniable that he has endured a difficult year, particularly towards the business end of the season, but the reasons are more diverse than just one player's erratic form.

United can cite a luckless run of injuries (17 players have missed a month or more), the regression of players such as Michael Carrick and Ferdinand, and the way the team have missed Cristiano Ronaldo and, to a lesser extent, Carlos Tevez – two players who have scored over 50 goals between them this season for Real Madrid and Manchester City respectively.

Selling Ronaldo was always going to hurt the team, not just because of his goals but also because of the sapping effect his presence can have on opponents. That wow factor has gone this season, even if Nani and Antonio Valencia have been two of the better performers. Berbatov, the club's most expensive player, has flickered only sporadically and, on a personal level, this game was another ordeal.

"We were careless with our finishing," Ferguson grizzled, and everyone knew whom he meant after the Bulgarian's second-half misses. "Dimitar could have scored four."

But Berbatov is not the only player who has failed to excel. You look through United's squad to identify which players can legitimately be described as having brilliant seasons and the only ones who stand out are Rooney, Darren Fletcher and Patrice Evra. Too many have scored six or seven, but not eight or nine, out of 10. Last season, when the Professional Footballers' Association announced the shortlist for player-of-the-year, five of the six names came from Old Trafford. This year, Rooney was the club's only representative.

United are now relying on beating Stoke next weekend while hoping Chelsea, with only five points dropped at home all season, fail to beat Wigan. "You never know," Ferguson said.

"Football is a crazy game. I wouldn't insult Wigan in any shape or form because they are a really good football team and they will have a go." But in all honesty he didn't really look like he meant it.
 
How many times? Nobody is blaming Berbatov for us not winning the title. fecking drama queens. We are saying he isn't very good and is pretty fecking lazy. That's all.
 
Chief - you contradicted yourself.

Course he did. he does it all the time. Not a clue - his argument changes depending on what he's been tripped up on. He even changes his stance to suit different posters - he'll agree with almost anything if he thinks you like him.

Fool.

Agreed.

Excellent post.
 
How many times? Nobody is blaming Berbatov for us not winning the title. fecking drama queens. We are saying he isn't very good and is pretty fecking lazy. That's all.

The irony.
 
1) It's very condescending to describe what you consider to be a United fan. The fans would not be on his back if he had performed better - the fans did not start off booing him.

2) Berba was not bought to be a second striker- his performances lead him to become marginalized.

3) Knee jerk reactions over the course of 2 seasons?

1)I did not say that by supporting Berbatov you are a real fan, but by not supporting him you are showing some signs of not being a real one. That was the case for those who were calling for the head of the kinds of Fletcher,Ronaldo or Nani even before they proved themselves. The bottom line is that the fans are not there to boo the players that wear the United shirt and only SAF knows the level of performance of Berbatov. And let's be honest here, the fans have been looking for a scapegoat all of this season and it were not for Nani's excellent form in the second half of the season, they would be calling for his head too. Unfortunately for us, Berbatov is not Nani in terms of psychological need and they do not have the same price tag, something that I think has been overstated and amplified to a sickening degree in here.

2) Berbatov wa bought because he offered different options than Rooney and had a different style. He was not marginalized because of his performances, but rather our tactical choice have been such that he did not get the opportunity to show what he is really able to do on a constant basis. He certainly is not a one to lead the line alone and to play in a 4-5-1 formation. I am sure that SAF is aware of this and that is why in my opinion we need to make our midfield much more strong in order to allow us to play a 4-4-2 more constantly where both Rooney and Berbatov are proven to be excellent in.


3) Last season there was not much of a reaction because we were winning titles and we did well in almost every competition and the focus was more on Ronaldo/Tevez. Now that we are for the first time in years facing some troubles on some fronts, the fans are looking for a scapegoat, reflecting back on last season and almost "nostalgically" regretting the departure of Tevez. So yes, it is a knee jerk reaction from people who have been over-spoilt and expect United to do well year after year. You have the right to ask why we are not doing well, but in doing so be objective.
 
So as of now, praise only in this thread please.

In which case I don't expect the thread will survive.
 
Chief - you contradicted yourself. You first mention that Tevez was too similar to Rooney and was edged out by Berba then go onto say SAF went after Benzema because he could cover for Rooney thus implying he is similar to Rooney.
You are mistaken. Firstly I mentioned SAF (not me!) thought Tevez similar to Rooney and saw Berbatov as the different player. Thus, just like Owen this year, Tevez was edged out because of being in direct competition with Rooney in SAF's eyes.

Secondly, I said Benzema was wanted even though Berbatov was here. Showing that Fergie wanted a player better than Berbatov, to be Rooney's first choice partner. A player more capable of playing the lone forward role for us. In short a player better than Berbatov at being a big man forward. It has nothing to do with Benzema and Rooney being similar players.

Besides, by the time Benzema was being looked at Rooney had not shown that was the lone forward expert he is now. So it's not like he was being looked at as cover for Rooney in any shape or form. So I'm not sure were you got this idea I was implying Benzema was similar to Rooney or would be cover for Rooney.

But lets say we get Benzema and keep Berba- then how many games will Berba actually feature in?
Plenty. We use our squad through out the season. There is no way he and Owen would be fit and fail to get a decent amount of games. It would be like 1999 all over again in terms of how the forwards were used.

If Berba is only effective in a 4-4-2 which we will only play against poorer teams wouldn't SAF just play Rooney and Benzema against those teams and against better opposition just settle with Rooney up top on his own?
That's the assumption. Not the reality. Rooney and a Benzema would never play all the games. The same way Yorke and Cole never played all the games in 1999. SAF doesn't operate that way when he has full compliment of 4 forwards.
 
You are mistaken. I said Benzema was wanted even though Berbatov was here. Showing that Fergie wanted a player better than Berbatov to be Rooney's first choice partner. A player more capable of playing the lone forward role for us. In short a player better than Berbatov at being a big man forward. It has nothing to do with Benzema and Rooney being similar players.

Besides, by the time Benzema was being looked at Rooney had not shown that was the lone forward expert he is now. So it not like he was being looked at as cover for Rooney in any shape or form.

Spot on. Most people thought that Rooney couldnt lead the line in a 451 until this season.

Glad we didnt buy Benzema now as he wouldnt bring that much to the table.
 
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