Dier. Without doubt.
Don't understand the derision he receives on here.
Don't understand the derision he receives on here.
Dier or Matic
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Out of these two? Dier for me. He's younger and there's something to be said for the notion of an English core to the team, which Fergie clearly considered important.
Neither, so won't vote. They're both smokescreens anyway. 
If we're talking about a 4-3-3, most players in that position are big chodes e.g. Toure, Carrick, Weigl, Busquets. These aren't aggressive little players like Roy Keane.
What sort of player are you talking about? A Nainggolan type?
I suppose, in some part, it could be down to his execrable performances, of late, when on England duty. Mind you, he's hardly the only one in that regard.
There is nothing to be said for an "English to the core team " when the English players are not to the standard that is required , Dier been a prime example. This is another cloaking exercise for the real target .
These 4 aren't chodes mate, these are all quality footballers, very good on the ball.
Weigl and Fabinho are the type I am talking about, although I don't think it will be 4-3-3 if we do buy the donkey, you need a #10 or SS with him to add craft and get on to his first touch.
I like Dier more so Ill vote Dier and would have him as first choice. Ill also misspell his name in the same sentence. But I also like Matic and genuinely think he would be a great buy for us so if that happens Ill be happy with that.
Oh, so you just someone who is better technically? Someone who can extricate himself from pressure and can pass the ball well?
Well, Dier seems about as good as Fabinho in that regard. Fabinho tends to overrun the ball and his passing isn't up to much. Weigl might be a class ahead.
Yes to the top line.
Fabinho is much more agile and mobile than Dier and is also better positionally, much better all round player.
I hope these aren't our options.
And if we're signing Lukaku who isn't great on the ball we need to make sure as much of the rest of our team is. And someone like Matic will only add to the lumbering non technically gifted nature of our team. Fill the team with more class and someone like Lukaku will benefit and even further show his good qualities.
And if we're signing Lukaku who isn't great on the ball we need to make sure as much of the rest of our team is. And someone like Matic will only add to the lumbering non technically gifted nature of our team. Fill the team with more class and someone like Lukaku will benefit and even further show his good qualities.
Agreed. 4-2-3-1 looks much more likely as the defacto formation now. Pogba and Herrera will compete for the same spot next to a big #6.
Dier for me.
Matic would be solid and very basic, but wouldn't offer much long term or mobility wise. Matic would suit us when we are 2-0 up.
Dier has the advantage of being able to cover other positions and will improve under Jose in the DM role.
I would be happy to sign Dier
Matic would be solid and very basic, but wouldn't offer much long term or mobility wise. Matic would suit us when we are 2-0 up.
Dier has the advantage of being able to cover other positions and will improve under Jose in the DM role.
I would be happy to sign Dier
Perhaps but like I said he tends to overrun the ball when trying to dribble himself out of pressure. He could lose the ball a lot for us in the PL. Dier wants to pass his way out of trouble, much like Carrick. I think he is better suited.
Disagree about Fabinho being better positionally etc.
For me: Weigl > Fabinho > Dier > Matic
Matic is better than Dier (in my view), but as others have mentioned, age matters. I want to see us play with the same trio in midfield for a while to build up relations, Matic would be a stop-gap signing in that sense as any of the others mentioned have age with them.
Yep, we are painting ourselves into a corner.
Dier's passing is poor so I don't think him trying to pass out is going to benefit us, and Fabinho doesn't dribble much, he doesn't have a great range of passing and tends to drop it off short to more creative players.
Pogba is going to compete with Herrera for the same spot? What?
Pogba is going to compete with Herrera for the same spot? What?
In a 4-2-3-1 he would, yes. I would guess Mourinho will continue his long-standing preference of bringing in an industrious midfielder and switching to 4-3-3 for the big games. For plan A though, I would think he'll certainly want Lukaku being closely supported by a #10/SS, due to the nature of his game. I suppose it is possible that Pogba becomes that #10...
Dier is at least as good as passer as Fabinho. Go look at a video of Dier from 15/16 when he was playing in midfield. There's little difference.
I don't rate either that highly. Both have their impressive matches now and again.
That said if we must sign one of the two, I'd take Dier.
That said if we must sign one of the two, I'd take Dier.
I didn't say there was, neither are great passers but Fabinho is better in every other department IMO.
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Both average.
Dier for me between the two fo them. If we did have to go for a PL midfielder though, I would prefer Romeu from Southampton to either of them.
I've not seen every Tottenham game last season but I thought Dier looked more than a handy player whenever I saw them. Nevermind that he's not exactly at his prime in terms of age and experience, there would be more to come.
Obviously I would never advocate going English just for the sake of it.
N'Zonzi is a good option, if we're prioritizing PL experience. €40m release clause and coming off the back of an excellent season. Juve and Inter are reportedly interested though.
Do we really need more youth in the side though? We actually have quite a young team already even before losing Zlatan & Rooney and signing Lukaku & Lindelof. With Carrick bound to play fewer and fewer games too it probably wouldn't hurt to have someone with Matic's experience rather than Dier's youth, especially if you already think he's the better player.
I am with Neither. I prefer putting Herrera in the cdm role in a three man midfield with Blind and Fellaini being other alternative option. And getting Naby Keita instead.
Realistically is Dier an option? no way Levy sells unless we pay through the nose and then some. Worth overpaying for Kane but Dier not so much, when there are certainly other comparable options.
Do we actually need experience in the side? Our younglings aren't exactly young. They are entering their prime. None of Weigl/Fabinho/Dier are young per say, they are entering their prime or taking their last steps in development. I want a midfield that can train and play together for years to come so they gel properly and we reap the benefits. If none of those are available then of course Matic would be a great stop-gap signing, but he'd be that.
If we were to have all entering their prime, it would mean we wouldn't have to chop and change in the starting trio for quite some time. If we sign Matic that would happen way faster.
Don't get me wrong, Matic wouldn't be my preferred choice (that would be Weigl or Fabinho), but do people realise that Matic is 28, not 38?
The way people talk about him you'd imagine he was nearing pension age.
The way people talk about him you'd imagine he was nearing pension age.
Yeah, I don't get where that comes from. The man used to be a #10 before his positional change. He's just been instructed to keep it simple and ticking over. Obviously, he's no Carrick, but he can pass really tidily.
Neither. Give me Fabinho or Ndidi
I know people think Dier is terrible because of that England France game where Pogba ran him ragged but in his defence he was playing next to Oxlade bloody Chamberlain in a 2 man midfield.
I think he's actually been decent otherwise and shows a lot of the qualities we are after, strong, mobile, young, good ball winning and a pure defensive shield as well as not bad passing. I get why people don't want Matic but surely if we got Dier he wouldn't be a disappointing signing. It's not like Spurs are some pub team, he did extremely well for them in one of their strongest sides ever. I know people want Fabinho but I'm just not convinced he's the hungry energetic ball winner that we need. If Dier played in a Poch team then he definitely has energy...
Obviously this is all presuming we can actually sign him which is the biggest stumbling block clearly...
I think he's actually been decent otherwise and shows a lot of the qualities we are after, strong, mobile, young, good ball winning and a pure defensive shield as well as not bad passing. I get why people don't want Matic but surely if we got Dier he wouldn't be a disappointing signing. It's not like Spurs are some pub team, he did extremely well for them in one of their strongest sides ever. I know people want Fabinho but I'm just not convinced he's the hungry energetic ball winner that we need. If Dier played in a Poch team then he definitely has energy...
Obviously this is all presuming we can actually sign him which is the biggest stumbling block clearly...
He is with Spurs , he is English ,. he is overated and so will cost 100% more than his true value , wont happen .
@charlenefan you say you don't want mentions of other players in this thread but you give us the option of Neither and Eboue...?
Difficult choice. Matic is clearly better, but at 29 and for what Chelsea will charge I'm not sure. Dier is English (likely to stay long term) and young with really good potential.
I'd go with Dier.
I'd go with Dier.
If only those two were available , perhaps . Many better options out there , most have not even been mentioned yet
If it's me your talking about, then absolutely not.
Matic is in his prime. My reasoning for prefering the others (not that i don't want Matic, mind) is because they are entering their prime, like Pogba and to a lesser extent Herrera is. (but he's already here)
Happy with any of them, just want our midfield to be able to play together for as long as possible.
Yours was one of the posts I was responding to, but you're not alone. The thing is, how long can you realistically expect a midfield to stick together. You could easily get 4 seasons out of Matic. That's plenty of time. And whoever we get, I wouldn't be surprised to see us targeting a midfielder next year anyway.
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