Diallo vs Pellistri

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A mate of mine is a Sunderland season ticket holder and is pretty sure amad won't be good enough for a top team. He likes him but just doesn't see him as being bale to take that step. He's probably watched him more than anyone here has.

He also said he's looked fecked of late, which I guess is a result of this being his first proper season as a regular starter for a club and the championship is brutal.

As for Pellistri, I hope he is given a chance but find it mad that people are claiming he is better than Antony or deserves to start ahead of him. Hopefully he gets some minutes but he's behind 4 other players at the moment so it's no surprise his chances are limited.
 
troylocker said:
Good talents for sure, but come on. Diallo is nowhere near good enough to be a starter in a top side in the PL and seems to have found his level at Sunderland. Pellistri too, despite that one good involvement yesterday. 3rd choice rotation options at best next season. Still impossible to know if they have what it takes to be differencemakers on the top level, but I would say it's low risk letting them both go.
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Plenty of players make consistent leaps in development and proving themselves in increasingly more challenging environments.

I won't be too surprised if both Amad and Pellistri are more involved or play for a mid-table PL club on loan next season.

If anything, Garnacho is the proof of what's possible under Ten Hag.

Of course, there's always the cases of Tuanzebe and Garner, who were both at some point supposed to be future starters for Manchester United...
 
pacifictheme said:
A mate of mine is a Sunderland season ticket holder and is pretty sure amad won't be good enough for a top team. He likes him but just doesn't see him as being bale to take that step. He's probably watched him more than anyone here has.

He also said he's looked fecked of late, which I guess is a result of this being his first proper season as a regular starter for a club and the championship is brutal.

As for Pellistri, I hope he is given a chance but find it mad that people are claiming he is better than Antony or deserves to start ahead of him. Hopefully he gets some minutes but he's behind 4 other players at the moment so it's no surprise his chances are limited.
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Pellistri is clearly not "better" than Antony yet, but he offers more of the Utd style, he is quick, direct and focused on attack, Antony slows the play down and cannot beat a man, if fans prefer him it is because of this not because they actually think he is the finished article
 
pacifictheme said:
A mate of mine is a Sunderland season ticket holder and is pretty sure amad won't be good enough for a top team. He likes him but just doesn't see him as being bale to take that step. He's probably watched him more than anyone here has.

He also said he's looked fecked of late, which I guess is a result of this being his first proper season as a regular starter for a club and the championship is brutal.

As for Pellistri, I hope he is given a chance but find it mad that people are claiming he is better than Antony or deserves to start ahead of him. Hopefully he gets some minutes but he's behind 4 other players at the moment so it's no surprise his chances are limited.
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People here hate Antony so wouldn’t listen to that. Unless they mean sporadically which I’d agree with. Given Sancho mostly plays on the left Id like to see Pellistri get some chances on the right instead of Bruno moved there.
 
Zed 101 said:
Pellistri is clearly not "better" than Antony yet, but he offers more of the Utd style, he is quick, direct and focused on attack, Antony slows the play down and cannot beat a man, if fans prefer him it is because of this not because they actually think he is the finished article
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To be fair what matters is that the player is ETHs style not what we perceive to be that of Uniteds. I’d like see him play more though. I’m always impressed by his ball carrying
 
pacifictheme said:
A mate of mine is a Sunderland season ticket holder and is pretty sure amad won't be good enough for a top team. He likes him but just doesn't see him as being bale to take that step. He's probably watched him more than anyone here has.

He also said he's looked fecked of late, which I guess is a result of this being his first proper season as a regular starter for a club and the championship is brutal.

As for Pellistri, I hope he is given a chance but find it mad that people are claiming he is better than Antony or deserves to start ahead of him. Hopefully he gets some minutes but he's behind 4 other players at the moment so it's no surprise his chances are limited.
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We also have Sancho that is only a year older than Pellistri and has more endproduct and potential than both those guys combined. Ten Haag's main goal should be to find Sancho's Dortmund tune again, because it's in there. Pellistri is 21 after all and has a grand total of 2 goals and 5 assists in his entire senior career to show for. Sancho has 60 goals and 68 assists for Dortmund and Man United from the same positions. Antony is extremely onefooted, egoistic and only goes to the left, so I don't see him as the longterm solution on the right either.
 
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I could see Amad going on loan to a Ligue 1 or Serie A side, and Sancho getting one more year with Pellistri just sticking around as Antony's backup, and if we lose Antony or Rashford we'd just see Bruno wide more and Eriksen as a #10, since I do think we'll sign a #8, even if we can't get De Jong.
 
georgipep said:
Plenty of players make consistent leaps in development and proving themselves in increasingly more challenging environments.

I won't be too surprised if both Amad and Pellistri are more involved or play for a mid-table PL club on loan next season.

If anything, Garnacho is the proof of what's possible under Ten Hag.

Of course, there's always the cases of Tuanzebe and Garner, who were both at some point supposed to be future starters for Manchester United...
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Diallo (Soon 21) and Pellistri (already 21) is not exactly teenagers anymore. Garnacho is 18 and looks to possess some extreme qualities the other two don't. Diallo seems to have found his level at Sunderland and couldn't break into Rangers last season, while Pellistri looked really underwhelming last season in Spain. Still early days for Garnacho, but he's already racked up more goals and assists (5G/6A) for us this season that Pellistri has his entire senior career (2G/5A).
 
troylocker said:
Diallo (Soon 21) and Pellistri (already 21) is not exactly teenagers anymore. Garnacho is 18 and looks to possess some extreme qualities the other two don't. Diallo seems to have found his level at Sunderland and couldn't break into Rangers last season, while Pellistri looked really underwhelming last season in Spain. Still early days for Garnacho, but he's already racked up more goals and assists (5G/6A) for us this season that Pellistri has his entire senior career (2G/5A).
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The logic here is all over the place. It's not even that I necessarily disagree with your overall point. But you obviously can't compare Garnacho's G/A to Pellistri's fairly - the former has now player a lot and the latter almost never. And how do we know Amad has 'found his level' at Sunderland? He's their star player after half a season there, at the age of 21. Think that suggests he might be up to a slightly higher level.
 
troylocker said:
Diallo (Soon 21) and Pellistri (already 21) is not exactly teenagers anymore. Garnacho is 18 and looks to possess some extreme qualities the other two don't. Diallo seems to have found his level at Sunderland and couldn't break into Rangers last season, while Pellistri looked really underwhelming last season in Spain. Still early days for Garnacho, but he's already racked up more goals and assists (5G/6A) for us this season that Pellistri has his entire senior career (2G/5A).
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That the second time in half an hour you have claimed that he has ‘found his level’ at Sunderland, is that just a phrase you like to use a lot or are you privy to some information that none of the rest of us have that gives you insight into potential improvements in Diallo game? What is it that makes you so certain that mid table championship football is where he should stay? Because unless you know something that we don’t then it seems like you’re taking out if you’re arse by writing off a decent young player having a good season that will most likely continue to improve.
 
Zed 101 said:
Pellistri is clearly not "better" than Antony yet, but he offers more of the Utd style, he is quick, direct and focused on attack, Antony slows the play down and cannot beat a man, if fans prefer him it is because of this not because they actually think he is the finished article
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They are different types of players who offer different options for me...which I'm happy with overall.
 
troylocker said:
Diallo (Soon 21) and Pellistri (already 21) is not exactly teenagers anymore. Garnacho is 18 and looks to possess some extreme qualities the other two don't. Diallo seems to have found his level at Sunderland and couldn't break into Rangers last season, while Pellistri looked really underwhelming last season in Spain. Still early days for Garnacho, but he's already racked up more goals and assists (5G/6A) for us this season that Pellistri has his entire senior career (2G/5A).
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I think you've got to accept that players are going to progress differently. You may be right, perhaps both will fall short of that level we need but I'm happy there are promising signs in both.

There's something in both of them that seems to suggest they have a future at a high level so let's see.
 
troylocker said:
Diallo (Soon 21) and Pellistri (already 21) is not exactly teenagers anymore. Garnacho is 18 and looks to possess some extreme qualities the other two don't. Diallo seems to have found his level at Sunderland and couldn't break into Rangers last season, while Pellistri looked really underwhelming last season in Spain. Still early days for Garnacho, but he's already racked up more goals and assists (5G/6A) for us this season that Pellistri has his entire senior career (2G/5A).
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Do you remember Januzaj?
 
Both need to play football every week, might make more sense for Diallo to go overseas on loan whilst I'd imagine Pellestri will have a few premier league clubs after him.

Don't seem logical to sell either unless United get a buyback clause. There's enough players in the squad who aren't good enough to generate funds this summer.
 
Amad has looked by far the best player in Sunderland in his first full senior season, how is that him "finding his level"? :wenger:
 
Brightonian said:
The logic here is all over the place. It's not even that I necessarily disagree with your overall point. But you obviously can't compare Garnacho's G/A to Pellistri's fairly - the former has now player a lot and the latter almost never. And how do we know Amad has 'found his level' at Sunderland? He's their star player after half a season there, at the age of 21. Think that suggests he might be up to a slightly higher level.
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Progress isn't always linear either, let alone easy to predict. For all we know Garnacho might never progress beyond this point, and everything could click for Diallo and he goes on to win the Ballon d'Or.

We just have to wait and see. Trust the coaches to make the right decisions.
 
DanClancy said:
Both need to play football every week, might make more sense for Diallo to go overseas on loan whilst I'd imagine Pellestri will have a few premier league clubs after him.

Don't seem logical to sell either unless United get a buyback clause. There's enough players in the squad who aren't good enough to generate funds this summer.
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The last thing Diallo needs is to go abroad. He needs to be playing Premier League football next season, so he can be ready to pay for us as soon as possible.
 
georgipep said:
Do you remember Januzaj?
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I remember hearing that PSG offered us like £60m for Januzaj when he first broke through. At the time it looked a no brainer to refuse, but in hindsight we should've snapped their hands off for it.
 
Big Andy said:
I remember hearing that PSG offered us like £60m for Januzaj when he first broke through. At the time it looked a no brainer to refuse, but in hindsight we should've snapped their hands off for it.
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You should never discount the chance that were just rumours dropped by his agent to drum up interest and negotiation power. Especially if we were in renewal negotiations at the time.
 
Crimson King said:
The last thing Diallo needs is to go abroad. He needs to be playing Premier League football next season, so he can be ready to pay for us as soon as possible.
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Agree in theory...that's got to be very well thought out for me though.

He needs to go somewhere they will accept developing someone who has no future beyond that season but at a side where he's going to see enough of the ball to be effective.

Love to see him at Brentford...though not sure how they'd feel about the loan. Fulham or Brighton could be interesting if they were in.

Forest if they stay up? Obviously a newly promoted side is most likely but you worry if he'd fit into how they wanted to play...though if Boro came up you'd say he'd be an attractive proposition for Carrick?
 
Pellestri looks ready for first team minutes in the PL. I’d like to see him start at the weekend against Southampton. No loan please, if he’s good enough he should play. If not then sell him.
 
Let’s not forget how limited the foil is for Diallo at Sunderland. Diallo is a Sancho type player - capable of looking completely ordinary in an ordinary team but given the right support and runners and players to play off, could be a brilliant part of the puzzle- especially if ETH continues our development into a more possession based team playing predominantly against low blocks.

Pellistri is not as technical or quick footed as either Sancho or Diallo by the looks of things…not as strong as Antony…I think his value is in his directness and that final ball…we don’t have wingers who look for those runs in behind and to deliver a ball in the box. Maybe that’s his niche?
 
We are playing 60-65 games this year, more and more the game is becoming squad based, Five subs , 9 named substitute rather than 7 and due to the increased intensity of the game and less recovery time for professional players, it’s time Elite clubs like united think outside of the box, not in the way of T Boehly where they have 33 players and 3 for every position which is just reckless however we should now have a squad of 27-28 players. Four or Five are always injured, the third GK is learning the ropes or a tried and tested veteran, so at most your juggling 22/23 players for a matchday squad of 20 and most managers are now using their 5 substitutes more strategically and need at least 4 offensive options from a bench of 9.


United squad next year must address the weaknesses in attacking options but I’d like to see 8 or 9 different options for 4 positions from this potential quad options ; M Rashford, A Garnaucho, J Sancho, *V Osimhen or G Ramos, Antony, F Pellistri , Bruno, *M Kudas and maybe Weghorst if his goals improve before end of season but we might yet see another player return which won’t make many fans happy whatsoever! Only with those type of options where 4 start, 3 or 4 are on bench 1 or 2 are probably injured will the team start to score 80-90 PL goals again to mount a serious title challenge, F Pellestri is a genuine outside right winger he goes on the outside and gets to the byline, he allows you to change the dynamic of the game so he must be given more minutes, he’s now ready.

A Martial must be sold, his £250k per week would pay for M Kudas, F Pellistri new contract and W Weghorst permanent contract , Amad Dialo should be loaned out to a Premier League team and we should have a serious look at buying E Ferguson from Brighton now but loaning him back to the club for 1-2 years as part of the deal.
 
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Brightonian said:
The logic here is all over the place. It's not even that I necessarily disagree with your overall point. But you obviously can't compare Garnacho's G/A to Pellistri's fairly - the former has now player a lot and the latter almost never. And how do we know Amad has 'found his level' at Sunderland? He's their star player after half a season there, at the age of 21. Think that suggests he might be up to a slightly higher level.
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Garnacho has played 1289 minutes for us this season and has returned a goal or assist every 117 minutes on the pitch from an xG+xA per 90 of 0,71.
Pillestri played exactly 1289 minutes for Alaves with 0 returns, zip. He produced an xG+xA per 90 of 0,10 there. Since his senior debut for Penarol when he was 18 he's returned 2 goals and 5 assists in 2827 minutes. That's 404 minutes per return. Why is it unfair to compare them? Is it because he's tested mostly on a lower level of a competition? They are young and nothing is certain, but for me the 18 year old with tons of endproduct is more interesting than the 21 year old without it.

Neil_Buchanan said:
That the second time in half an hour you have claimed that he has ‘found his level’ at Sunderland, is that just a phrase you like to use a lot or are you privy to some information that none of the rest of us have that gives you insight into potential improvements in Diallo game? What is it that makes you so certain that mid table championship football is where he should stay? Because unless you know something that we don’t then it seems like you’re taking out if you’re arse by writing off a decent young player having a good season that will most likely continue to improve.
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I'm not saying he's come as far as he can. Right now he's on that level. It's not like he's setting the Championship on fire. Most likely he'll develop further, but he doesn't look ready to make a difference on the top level, and he might never get there. Meaning playing a key role for a team fighting for the biggest titles in football.
londonredmaniac said:
I think you've got to accept that players are going to progress differently. You may be right, perhaps both will fall short of that level we need but I'm happy there are promising signs in both.
There's something in both of them that seems to suggest they have a future at a high level so let's see.
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I totally agree. Players develop at different paces and it's not too late at 21, but to me it looks like none of them are ready now and they still have a long way to go before they are, if they ever will be. We've had them on our hands for more then 2 years now and I frankly I think it's pretty low risk for us and better for their progress if we let them go.
georgipep said:
Do you remember Januzaj?
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Yes! He was seen as a much bigger talent then both Diallo and Pellistri and we let him go at 20, when we couldn't give him more minutes. He was not good enough in the end.
He ended up with 5 goals and 6 assists for us (same as Garnacho has now) in 3376 minutes (307 minutes per return).
 
Woziak said:
A Martial must be sold, his £250k per week would pay for M Kudas, F Pellistri new contract and W Weghorst permanent contract , Amad Dialo should be loaned out to a Premier League team and we should have a serious look at buying E Ferguson from Brighton now but loaning him back to the club for 1-2 years as part of the deal.
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If Martial is on £250k/week how do you think it's possible to sell him? He is barely available over the years. Who would want to gamble on him?

He's staying whether we like it or not.
 
londonredmaniac said:
Agree in theory...that's got to be very well thought out for me though.

He needs to go somewhere they will accept developing someone who has no future beyond that season but at a side where he's going to see enough of the ball to be effective.

Love to see him at Brentford...though not sure how they'd feel about the loan. Fulham or Brighton could be interesting if they were in.

Forest if they stay up? Obviously a newly promoted side is most likely but you worry if he'd fit into how they wanted to play...though if Boro came up you'd say he'd be an attractive proposition for Carrick?
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I agree with this but its really difficult to find the right team in the premiership who are willing to give a young player playing time when they will not benefit long term, they are much more likely to invest in their own players. His loan move to Crystal Palace fell apart because they wouldn't guarantee him playing time.

Also we're not the only team who are having trouble with this, Chelsea have struggled with their loan moves for Billy Gilmour. City seem to have found a way around it by selling the player with a buy back option, Lavia at Southampton is having a great season, Chelsea bid £50m in January and Man City still have a buy back option at £40m.

If Middlesbrough come up I'd be happy to send him there on a one year loan, but if that's not an option we have to look at is a 2 season loan with an option of a recall after 1 season. With this the team that loans the player would be willing to invest in giving Amad some playing time as they will benefit in the short term but beyond this too.
 
troylocker said:
Garnacho has played 1289 minutes for us this season and has returned a goal or assist every 117 minutes on the pitch from an xG+xA per 90 of 0,71.
Pillestri played exactly 1289 minutes for Alaves with 0 returns, zip. He produced an xG+xA per 90 of 0,10 there. Since his senior debut for Penarol when he was 18 he's returned 2 goals and 5 assists in 2827 minutes. That's 404 minutes per return. Why is it unfair to compare them? Is it because he's tested mostly on a lower level of a competition? They are young and nothing is certain, but for me the 18 year old with tons of endproduct is more interesting than the 21 year old without it.
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You seem to completely ignore team strength and style.

Also, Garnacho is a wide forward while Pellistri is far more of a creator and workhorse winger. Look at his role for Uruguay too. (btw, the fact that he is an Uruguay international player itself should tell you something about his potential, that's not a tiny nation with no football talent pool)
troylocker said:
I'm not saying he's come as far as he can. Right now he's on that level. It's not like he's setting the Championship on fire. Most likely he'll develop further, but he doesn't look ready to make a difference on the top level, and he might never get there. Meaning playing a key role for a team fighting for the biggest titles in football.
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But he is. Second best rated player under the age of 21 with more than 200 minutes played this season. Not really sure what do you expect.
troylocker said:
I totally agree. Players develop at different paces and it's not too late at 21, but to me it looks like none of them are ready now and they still have a long way to go before they are, if they ever will be. We've had them on our hands for more then 2 years now and I frankly I think it's pretty low risk for us and better for their progress if we let them go.
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Different players fit differently in different systems. Managers find ways to extract the maximum out of their abilities and skillset. Ten Hag seems to be a very smart and capable manager in that regard. The only question is whether he will find Amad and Pellistri useful for his plans.
troylocker said:
Yes! He was seen as a much bigger talent then both Diallo and Pellistri and we let him go at 20, when we couldn't give him more minutes. He was not good enough in the end.
He ended up with 5 goals and 6 assists for us (same as Garnacho has now) in 3376 minutes (307 minutes per return).
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Exactly. So putting Garnacho as the comparison bar is silly. Players develop differently.
 
Why are some people suggesting to get rid of Pellistri all of a sudden?

He's a young player who is getting some minutes here and there, and they have all been pretty promising.

Titles are won with good depth, and if we lost a few of the regulars like Rashford and Antony at the same time next season, he would be likely getting more game time.

Diallo on the other hand doesn,t seem as favourable. Have read mixed reviews about his loan spell, not that the negatives are necessarily bad in terms of Sunderland level, but to compare what he can to transition to top level consistently remains to be desired.
 
Red Shorts said:
Why are some people suggesting to get rid of Pellistri all of a sudden?

He's a young player who is getting some minutes here and there, and they have all been pretty promising.

Titles are won with good depth, and if we lost a few of the regulars like Rashford and Antony at the same time next season, he would be likely getting more game time.

Diallo on the other hand doesn,t seem as favourable. Have read mixed reviews about his loan spell, not that the negatives are necessarily bad in terms of Sunderland level, but to compare what he can to transition to top level consistently remains to be desired.
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Have no idea what you’re reading. It’s basically all positive ever since he’s been starting.
 
georgipep said:
You seem to completely ignore team strength and style.

Also, Garnacho is a wide forward while Pellistri is far more of a creator and workhorse winger. Look at his role for Uruguay too. (btw, the fact that he is an Uruguay international player itself should tell you something about his potential, that's not a tiny nation with no football talent pool)

But he is. Second best rated player under the age of 21 with more than 200 minutes played this season. Not really sure what do you expect.

Different players fit differently in different systems. Managers find ways to extract the maximum out of their abilities and skillset. Ten Hag seems to be a very smart and capable manager in that regard. The only question is whether he will find Amad and Pellistri useful for his plans.

Exactly. So putting Garnacho as the comparison bar is silly. Players develop differently.
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Uruguay are a tiny nation tbf. Big footballing history but I am not sure they are currently blessed with loads of talent.
 
Diallo was not having game time either at Atalanta, it was always a transfer based on having faith on data analytics about his potential.
 
pacifictheme said:
Uruguay are a tiny nation tbf. Big footballing history but I am not sure they are currently blessed with loads of talent.
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They are a tiny nation indeed, but as you wrote yourself, great football history and talent production line. There is a new wave of Uruguayan young players touted for European transfers now, some even linked with the likes of City, Real Madrid, etc.

I'm super happy for Facundo and his development so far.
 
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