Di María's position at United

Actually, the more i think about it the most 'common sese' approach is to have a 4312


Raf..jones..rojo..shaw
..herera..car..adm....
............mata.............
...roo............rvp........

That way all the main players play, alhough it will be a bit lob-sided on the left as herera will not be as attacking as adm.

What concerns me is how all levels of utd are playing 352. Even after signing di maria we played 352 against mk...that may be just down to previous preparation, but the fact he didnt change formation when it wasnt working spoke volumes.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Rooney has had an awful first touch for the past few seasons now. This leads to him slowing the tempo down quite a bit. I'd go with Mata over him any day.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how anyone would put Rooney in that position over Mata and I would be shocked if that would happen under LVG.
 
---------De Gea-----------
---Jones-Evans-Rojo------
Rafael---------------Shaw
---------Carrick-----------
---Herrera-------Di Maria--
--------Rooney-RvP-------

If we're going to continue playing 5 at the back, this is the only way we can have width and balance at the same time really. I'd rather we went 433. Sacrificing one of Rooney/RvP/Mata is far more beneficial for the team imo, especially when you consider our injury record anyway.

--------De Gea---------
Rafa--Evans-Rojo--Shaw
-----Carrick-Herrera----
Januzaj--Mata---Di Maria
---------Rooney-------
 
Some real lunacy in here looking at all these formations. Everybody is making one or more of the following mistakes.

1) Neither Rooney or RvP are getting dropped. Rooney's the friggin' captain for feck's sake. RvP is RvP, for feck's sake.
2) On what evidence is Januzaj a lock in the starting XI? Yes he is a beloved youth product, but so far LvG has included him as a super-sub from the get-go. He had the same role under Moyes. He's generally struggled when brought on in a starting role, which is to be expected of a 19 year-old.
3) Mata is NOT getting dropped, nor is he shifting out wide or anything of the sort. LvG has clearly defined the #10 role as belonging to Mata since his first match in charge.
4) Welbeck and Kagawa are not figuring in this team, period.
5) Rafael has been injured 75% of the time over the past few seasons. He is not simply going to walk back into a starting role.
6) LvG is implementing the 3-5-2. Like it or not, he keeps referring to this "philosophy" which is something he is not going to relinquish. He's going to build a side that will make it work.

Taking all these as givens...here's what I believe LvG's lineup will be:

-------------------DDG------------------
Jones/Smalling----Smalling/Evans----Rojo/Shaw
Valencia--Herrera--Fletcher/Carrick--di Maria
-----------------Mata-------------------
-----------Rooney-----RVP--------------
 
Darwin09 said:
Some real lunacy in here looking at all these formations. Everybody is making one or more of the following mistakes.

1) Neither Rooney or RvP are getting dropped. Rooney's the friggin' captain for feck's sake. RvP is RvP, for feck's sake.
2) On what evidence is Januzaj a lock in the starting XI? Yes he is a beloved youth product, but so far LvG has included him as a super-sub from the get-go. He had the same role under Moyes. He's generally struggled when brought on in a starting role, which is to be expected of a 19 year-old.
3) Mata is NOT getting dropped, nor is he shifting out wide or anything of the sort. LvG has clearly defined the #10 role as belonging to Mata since his first match in charge.
4) Welbeck and Kagawa are not figuring in this team, period.
5) Rafael has been injured 75% of the time over the past few seasons. He is not simply going to walk back into a starting role.
6) LvG is implementing the 3-5-2. Like it or not, he keeps referring to this "philosophy" which is something he is not going to relinquish. He's going to build a side that will make it work.

Taking all these as givens...here's what I believe LvG's lineup will be:

-------------------DDG------------------
Jones/Smalling----Smalling/Evans----Rojo/Shaw
Valencia--Herrera--Fletcher/Carrick--di Maria
-----------------Mata-------------------
-----------Rooney-----RVP--------------
Click to expand...

of course, you're making a couple of mistakes/assumptions yourself.

Shaw isn't a centre back, so why will he suddenly be the left sided centre back?

Van Gaal has already stated that the 3 at the back best suited the players he had available. Di Maria could well change that. You don't pay 60m and put a star player as wingback!

I'm intrigued how the heck this is going to work out I really am.

However, the people saying we never have everyone fit at one time have one hell of a good point!
 
Darwin09 said:
Some real lunacy in here looking at all these formations. Everybody is making one or more of the following mistakes.

1) Neither Rooney or RvP are getting dropped. Rooney's the friggin' captain for feck's sake. RvP is RvP, for feck's sake.
2) On what evidence is Januzaj a lock in the starting XI? Yes he is a beloved youth product, but so far LvG has included him as a super-sub from the get-go. He had the same role under Moyes. He's generally struggled when brought on in a starting role, which is to be expected of a 19 year-old.
3) Mata is NOT getting dropped, nor is he shifting out wide or anything of the sort. LvG has clearly defined the #10 role as belonging to Mata since his first match in charge.
4) Welbeck and Kagawa are not figuring in this team, period.
5) Rafael has been injured 75% of the time over the past few seasons. He is not simply going to walk back into a starting role.
6) LvG is implementing the 3-5-2. Like it or not, he keeps referring to this "philosophy" which is something he is not going to relinquish. He's going to build a side that will make it work.

Taking all these as givens...here's what I believe LvG's lineup will be:

-------------------DDG------------------
Jones/Smalling----Smalling/Evans----Rojo/Shaw
Valencia--Herrera--Fletcher/Carrick--di Maria
-----------------Mata-------------------
-----------Rooney-----RVP--------------
Click to expand...
You make 6 points as to others'stupidity then forget number 7 and 8. Yourself.

Adm is not a wing back....in a million years. And shaw will not be the left cb, HE will be LWB.

Only way to have all your points correct would be to have a 352 with adm in a cm 2. Simple.
 
]
Theon said:
Without a doubt. I don't actually know any teams that have played a diamond that way, with one up top.

That wouldn't actually work too different to a 3-5-2 with Di Maria/Mata/Herrera. If Jones was the DM for instance I think the difference is marginal and something which could be minimised by playing a high line for instance. I think the diamond system there looks better because it's easier to imagine the space in front of the defence being adequately covered, but the truth is you can cover that space in a three man defence also - for example by playing a higher line or having defenders who step out of the three to make a challenge.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I heard Jonathan Wilson on the radio a few days ago and he was pointing out that the only real difference between the two was having a DM stepping back towards defence rather than a CB stepping up. I'd have thought we'd be better off with the former given the skillset of our CBs.
 
Sandikan said:
of course, you're making a couple of mistakes/assumptions yourself.

Shaw isn't a centre back, so why will he suddenly be the left sided centre back?

Van Gaal has already stated that the 3 at the back best suited the players he had available. Di Maria could well change that. You don't pay 60m and put a star player as wingback!

I'm intrigued how the heck this is going to work out I really am.

However, the people saying we never have everyone fit at one time have one hell of a good point!
Click to expand...

Dracula said:
You make 6 points as to others'stupidity then forget number 7 and 8. Yourself.

Adm is not a wing back....in a million years. And shaw will not be the left cb, HE will be LWB.

Only way to have all your points correct would be to have a 352 with adm in a cm 2. Simple.
Click to expand...

A wingback in a 3-5-2 is not a wingback in a 4-4-2. In a 3-5-2 the wingbacks are basically attacking players with some responsibility to defend. Young and Valencia are not technically wing-backs, but that's what they've been doing since LvG took charge. Basically the lineup I'm expecting is really just di Maria playing in Young's spot.

I'm actually not sure where that leaves Shaw, as you don't need 2 left-sided attackers, unless di Maria moves infield in place of Herrera but I doubt that because we need Herrera for a different reason.
 
I really want to see him as an advanced central midfielder even if it's at the expense of Mata in some games. His contribution is greater there due to his work-rate and dynamism through the middle, so that would be my preference over seeing him on the wing.

I think the best system to accommodate him, as well as our other attacking talent of Rooney, Mata and RvP would be the diamond - even though I don't think the attacking trio of Rooney, Mata and Rooney will ever truly succeed due to their lack of pace which does cripple our attacking play despite their individual quality. Perhaps with the injection of pace and energy from di Maria in our front six it could work, but I remain pessimistic of that.

I'd play him on the left of the diamond, with license to roam left and supply and our forwards, as well as support and combine with Shaw from there. His delivery is absolutely lethal and a key aspect of his game and creativity, so you still want him to venture into wide areas and offer penetration. I hope we don't look to rely on just his pace though and I'd play Welbeck at the expense of van Persie, so we have another mobile player who can stretch defences and create space for Mata and di Maria to exploit.
 
Darwin09 said:
Some real lunacy in here looking at all these formations. Everybody is making one or more of the following mistakes.

1) Neither Rooney or RvP are getting dropped. Rooney's the friggin' captain for feck's sake. RvP is RvP, for feck's sake.
2) On what evidence is Januzaj a lock in the starting XI? Yes he is a beloved youth product, but so far LvG has included him as a super-sub from the get-go. He had the same role under Moyes. He's generally struggled when brought on in a starting role, which is to be expected of a 19 year-old.
3) Mata is NOT getting dropped, nor is he shifting out wide or anything of the sort. LvG has clearly defined the #10 role as belonging to Mata since his first match in charge.
4) Welbeck and Kagawa are not figuring in this team, period.
5) Rafael has been injured 75% of the time over the past few seasons. He is not simply going to walk back into a starting role.
6) LvG is implementing the 3-5-2. Like it or not, he keeps referring to this "philosophy" which is something he is not going to relinquish. He's going to build a side that will make it work.

Taking all these as givens...here's what I believe LvG's lineup will be:

-------------------DDG------------------
Jones/Smalling----Smalling/Evans----Rojo/Shaw
Valencia--Herrera--Fletcher/Carrick--di Maria
-----------------Mata-------------------
-----------Rooney-----RVP--------------
Click to expand...


For me we won't play Rvp, Di Maria, Rooney, and Mata in the same team, one will either be injured, or on the bench, and if you think we've bought Di Mari to play him there then you're wrong.
 
---------------De Gea---------------

Rafael-----Jones-----Rojo----Shaw

----Herrera---Carrick---di Maria---

---Januzaj------RvP-----Rooney----

Or to that effect.
 
hebegebe said:
Did he? There's pictures of him going to lunch in Manchester in the MEN, saying he's staying at the Lowery hotel
Click to expand...
I think I heard SSN said he went back to Spain after he signed to pick up his family. Either that or I'm going crazy. :)
 
----ADM-------rooney---
----------mata------------
----Herrera---Vidal-------
Shaw----Carrick-----rafael
-----Evans------jones-----

Carrick dropping into the back line and full backs pushing on. ADM playing the Robben role.
 
I can't get used to ADM, I always think what the hell do ppl mean with "Attacking Defensive Midfielder"
 
united_99 said:
I can't get used to ADM, I always think what the hell do ppl mean with "Attacking Defensive Midfielder"
Click to expand...
Before we signed Di Maria, someone on here said "we need an ADM sort of player" - meaning we need a player of Di Maria's calibre... but at the time I read it as we need a player who can play attacking defensive midfield :lol:
 
izec said:
I know Rooney is not Ronaldo and Januzaj not Bale, but if we would like to switch to a 4-3-3 and employ Di Maria as a CM.
Rooney could do a role similar to Ronaldo and changing postitions making it 2 strikers upfront or drop in AM. Di Maria would be flexible and could take the position at left wing. That would allow us to change from intial 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2.


-----------RvP----------
-Rooney----------.Januzaj----
----Di Maria----Herrera---
-----------Carrick---------

-----------Benzema---------
--Ronaldo-------------Bale
------Di Maria------Modric-------
-------------Alonso-------
Click to expand...
I'd go with this.
 
We're now being linked to Carvalho, so how about:

De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Carvalho
Herrera ----- Di Maria
Mata
RVP Rooney
​
That looks like a cracking team to me, fits all our new signings in, and our best players.
 
RedBistro said:
We're now being linked to Carvalho, so how about:

De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Carvalho
Herrera ----- Di Maria
Mata
RVP Rooney
​
That looks like a cracking team to me, fits all our new signings in, and our best players.
Click to expand...

And in their best positions.
 
RedBistro said:
We're now being linked to Carvalho, so how about:

De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Carvalho
Herrera ----- Di Maria
Mata
RVP Rooney
​
That looks like a cracking team to me, fits all our new signings in, and our best players.
Click to expand...

Must admit I like the look of 4-3-3, but I think Van Gaal is going to persist with three at the back
 
hebegebe said:
Must admit I like the look of 4-3-3, but I think Van Gaal is going to persist with three at the back
Click to expand...
I think he will consider a change if it's to the benefit of the team. He did mention that he will see if a change in system is better with the arrival of Di Maria. Posted this earlier, Di Maria himself mentioned that he's playing on the left of a midfield 3, that alone suggests either a 4-3-3 or a 4-1-2-1-2 or diamond, call it whatever you want.
 
RedBistro said:
We're now being linked to Carvalho, so how about:

De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Carvalho
Herrera ----- Di Maria
Mata
RVP Rooney
​
That looks like a cracking team to me, fits all our new signings in, and our best players.
Click to expand...

That's about the best I have seen to be honest could work very well, think this could also work, & give us some genuine width.


De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Herrera ----- Carvalho
Rooney
Janujaz-----RVP----Di Maria


​
 
RedBistro said:
We're now being linked to Carvalho, so how about:

De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Carvalho
Herrera ----- Di Maria
Mata
RVP Rooney
​
That looks like a cracking team to me, fits all our new signings in, and our best players.
Click to expand...

I think that this would be the no brainer if we sign Carvalho.

The same logic that led Van Gaal to opting for the 3-5-2 also applies to the diamond and in general it's a very similar system, but it would no doubt be easier for the players to adapt to - particularly in defence.

As a system I slightly prefer the 3-5-2 as it allows for easier width from the wingbacks, but it seems clear that the diamond suits our players more right now.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Aye it's a bummer, but for the sake of the team I think either Rooney, Mata, or RvP need to be benched.
Click to expand...

I think Carvalho would give us both those options, if Mata isn't working out during a game, and we need to inject some pace, we can bring on Januzaj and go to a wider formation like your one easily.
 
Theon said:
I think that this would be the no brainer if we sign Carvalho.

The same logic that led Van Gaal to opting for the 3-5-2 also applies to the diamond and in general it's a very similar system, but it would no doubt be easier for the players to adapt to - particularly in defence.

As a system I slightly prefer the 3-5-2 as it allows for easier width from the wingbacks, but it seems clear that the diamond suits our players more right now.
Click to expand...

I really don't think that the 352 does add enough width.

Too often you see Rooney or Welbeck going wide, whilst the wing-backs are stuck in a purgatory in between attack and defence.

They don't want to go too far forwards as they will be massively out of position and they don't stick back enough as they want to be more advanced. It leaves us with no wingers and CBs covering the wings defensively.

With the diamond and dynamic players like Di Maria, Herrera and (possibly) Vidal, we would have few issues with width.
 
------------roo/vanp------------
Dimaria------------------Januzaj
--------------Mata--------------
--------------------Herrera------
---------Carrick------------------
Shaw------------------------Raf
---------Rojo-------Jones-------
--------------Dave---------------
 
Mata will have to end up on the bench to change our midfield dynamics into a more robust, pace filled approach inspired by Di Maria. Otherwise he'll have to play a deeper role in something like a Barca 433 Xavi
DDG
Rafa Jones Rojo Shaw
Herrara
Mata Di Maria
Januzaj Rooney Welbeck
​
Mata and Januzaj can interchange fluidly, and so can Di Maria and Welbeck. Rafa and Shaw will overlap for days and still make it back to defend. Jones and Rojo provide pace and strength to our defence. Rooney can drop deep anytime he wants to join the party of 1-2s in midfield allowing welbeck and Januzaj to flank him at any time. A scary amount of pace in our play, with players like Di Maria, Shaw, Rafa, Welbeck and Januzaj closing everything down.

To provide that team with more balance and defensive security, a switch will have to be done:

DDG
Rafa Smalling Rojo Shaw
Jones
Herrara Di Maria
Januzaj Rooney Welbeck
​
RVP will have to sub with Rooney and prove he isn't past it. Hernandez to be sold. Fletcher/Tom/Ando shouldn't be worthy to train with first team at this point. Fellaini can stay. Valencia and young can stay, as they would be useful squad players once the team starts clicking.
Finally, Di Maria on the wings is very frustrating. He has become world class due to him completely making centermidfield his bitch. He has added dimensions to center midfield that's never been seen before.
 
Infra-red said:
This piece by Michael Cox is advocating a move to a 4-3-1-2 to accommodate Di Maria in his best position:

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/tactics-a...gaals-tactical-evolution-at-manchester-united


The suggested formation would look something like this:

abHwPHOaoD.png

With Carrick (or possibly even Jones) playing the holding midfield role alongside 2 energetic players, this system would seem to offer the tactical variation Van Gaal is fond of; Carrick dropping deep and splitting the CB's would allow Shaw & Rafael to push on and the side would immediately be transformed into the 3-4-1-2 shape we are currently using. Obviously a lack of pace might be a concern with the selected front 3, but this should be partially offset by Di Maria's bursts forward from deep (Herrera also made those runs at Bilbao). Welbeck (assuming he's still here) could always be brought into the front 2 though, if more pace in behind was needed, and Kagawa, Rooney, and Januzaj would probably be well-suited to any of those front 3 positions.

An ancillary benefit of switching to a system like this, is that it would more-or-less mean the end of the continued involvement of any of Young, Nani or Valencia.
Click to expand...

I quite agree with the reasoning behind Cox's formation, it is the best way to utilize all our resources into one formation. The best players in a line-up don't necessarily make the best team and vice versa but I can't see LVG not try this as he has been quite clear that he wouldn't want to drop RVP or Rooney and I hope he rates Mata as well. Whether it works on not, we have to wait and see but I am certain LVG will try this sooner or later as he clearly intends to tailor his formation based on the players that he has.

I will just quote my earlier post as it is valid for this discussion. Please read my post and critique my points instead of coming up with the dreaded one line, no width in that team....

Joga Bonito said:
A midfield diamond would be great

DDG
Rafael-Evans-Rojo-Shaw
Carrick
Herrera Di Maria
Mata
Rooney Van Perise
​
This would be perfect as it is a balanced team whilst solving the fitting in the best players conundrum. The problem with a midfield diamond is that it can be too narrow and if the opposition floods the middle, it can stifle the team. This is where Herrera and Di Maria come in.

Carrick- Plays a role similar to what Busquets does for Barca. Effectively sits back and screens the defence, while his prime responsibility possesion-wise is to recycle and retain the ball, his passing range allows him to start off promising attacks whenever he sees fit. I know he is 32 and coming back from an injury but he is a player in the mould of Pirlo, Busquets Scholes and Alonso who rather depend on their technical qualities and intelligence rather than their physical attributes. Whilst he could be overrun if not provided ample support like last season, that won't be the case with Di Maria and Herrera in front of him. These two little buggers run non-stop and provide the athletic support that relieves Carrick of his defensive burden to a large extent and allows him to flourish in a deeper role. He may not be a midfield terrier but his intelligent positioning and reading of the game means he would rather be looking at intercepting the ball and stopping the attacks before they take shape whilst leaving the vigorous closing down and tackling to the much energetic Herrera and Di Maria to a certain extent.

Herrera- Full of energy and is a willing runner who is qually adept at defensive and offensive contributions. His workrate, tenacity and desire is phenomenal while his touch, link-up play and incisive passing heavily contributes to the drive and tempo of the team's offensive game. He is like midfield terrier with his closing down and tackling who can also significantly contribute offensively and is perfect at playing this role. His mobility means he can also venture out to the right flank when necessary to provide ample width and support for Rafael as well. He will be the more defensive relative to Di Maria in this formation, holding the fort when Di Maria rampages forward so as not to get caught out by opposition's counter attacks. He will naturally be more adventurous in games in which we dominate possession.

Di Maria- Somewhat similar to Herrera but is more cultured technically and offensively whilst being less refined defensively. He would be tasked with attacking the left hand channel whenever he gets the opportunity, similar to how he did with Real Madrid. He would also be tasked with providing much needed pace, drive and verve to our rather static attacking play with our three forwards requiring runners/link-up play to truly function as a forward line. Herrera would also provide forward runs when necessary but he will naturally be slightly more refrained with his forward runs to provide Di Maria with the necessary freedom to excel.

Rafael & Shaw- These guys have all the tools necessary to become excellent wing-backs and will be crucial in this formation to providing the width and stretching of play. Rafael is truly adventurous offensively and always looks to burst forward to support whenever he can. He can link-up well with forwards and provide excellent width as well. Herrera will venture to the right flank whenver possible to cover for Rafael or to provide support for him as we. Same goes for Di Maria and Shaw as well. He is not so solid defensively and can rather be rash but with experience he can improve and will only become better. Shaw always looks to provide an outlet when attacking and looks to carry the ball forward whenever he can, but he is not great offensively and has to improve his game in this regard. He has looked rather tentative and reserved in pre-season but he has all the tools necessary to become an excellent attacking wing-back. However, he is very good defensively and is also very consistent which would naturally allow him to focus on developing the attacking aspect of his game faster as he has the defensive fundamentals for a full back.

Forwards- I don't need to say much about the forwards, they are all quality players who just need good service from the deep. Not only that, they also need willing runners and link-up play to fully utilize their games to their fullest capabilities. These 3 players are not great when it comes to pace, dribbling or stretching of defences and thus are rather predictable when receiving square, short passes in crowded areas. They won't receive a routine pass and dribble pass 4 players and put in the top corner or pluck out a miraculous pass from out of nowhere. Whenever they receive the ball, opponents tend to press them in the knowledge that they are incapable of dribbling and this results in them just passing backwards. With the likes of Herrera, Di Maria, Rafael and Shaw in the team they will have what they need to play the game their way and would truly excel in doing so.
Click to expand...
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I really don't know how I'd feel about a midfield consisting of:
Herrera Mata di Maria​
No doubt it's incredibly talented, but I'm unsure it'd work in the Premier League.
Click to expand...
I would have no problem with that line up because it will really utilize our best players in the starting XI. However, In the state that our defense is in right now, I don't see him lining all 3 of them like this. Our defense is really poor and this formation only works if we had a really good back line which we obviously don't
 
Darwin09 said:
Some real lunacy in here looking at all these formations. Everybody is making one or more of the following mistakes.

1) Neither Rooney or RvP are getting dropped. Rooney's the friggin' captain for feck's sake. RvP is RvP, for feck's sake.
2) On what evidence is Januzaj a lock in the starting XI? Yes he is a beloved youth product, but so far LvG has included him as a super-sub from the get-go. He had the same role under Moyes. He's generally struggled when brought on in a starting role, which is to be expected of a 19 year-old.
3) Mata is NOT getting dropped, nor is he shifting out wide or anything of the sort. LvG has clearly defined the #10 role as belonging to Mata since his first match in charge.
4) Welbeck and Kagawa are not figuring in this team, period.
5) Rafael has been injured 75% of the time over the past few seasons. He is not simply going to walk back into a starting role.
6) LvG is implementing the 3-5-2. Like it or not, he keeps referring to this "philosophy" which is something he is not going to relinquish. He's going to build a side that will make it work.

Taking all these as givens...here's what I believe LvG's lineup will be:

-------------------DDG------------------
Jones/Smalling----Smalling/Evans----Rojo/Shaw
Valencia--Herrera--Fletcher/Carrick--di Maria
-----------------Mata-------------------
-----------Rooney-----RVP--------------
Click to expand...
If you think that the formation is his philosophy then you don't understand Louis van Gaal. His formations change, his philosophy always stays the same.

The philosophy is made up of many thing.

How do players think, how do players see football, behaviour, approach towards training, discipline, intelligent use of the ball and the space around the pitch and anticipating your opponents. These are all small parts of van Gaal's philosophy and it's so much more than a formation, it's a way of life for the team.
 
Classic 4231

DDG

Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw

Herrera Fletcher

Di Maria Mata Januzaj

Rooney/RVP​
 
HabeasC said:
I really don't think that the 352 does add enough width.

Too often you see Rooney or Welbeck going wide, whilst the wing-backs are stuck in a purgatory in between attack and defence.

They don't want to go too far forwards as they will be massively out of position and they don't stick back enough as they want to be more advanced. It leaves us with no wingers and CBs covering the wings defensively.

With the diamond and dynamic players like Di Maria, Herrera and (possibly) Vidal, we would have few issues with width.
Click to expand...

A 3-5-2 typically does add more width than a diamond system.

The extra centre half allows the fullbacks to play 10 yards further forward as proper wingbacks, so when implemented properly you have a constant source of width in a 3-5-2. More so than a diamond system in which the fullbacks have greater defensive responsibilities.

The dynamic players you mention could play in a 3-5-2 also, Di Maria's hybrid role from midfield would work in that system as well. Playing ahead of Jones in DM is not too dissimilar than playing ahead of Jones as an extra centre back, or Carrick. They're both very similar systems and the difference in terms of space in front of the defence can be minimised by playing a higher line or having centre backs - like Rojo or Jones - capable of stepping out and making a challenge.

To get back to the point it does tend to have more and easier width. That said it's clearly not working for us right now, we don't have the wingbacks for it - though Shaw and Rafael are injured and haven't had a proper shot - and the defence seems far too uncomfortable. The diamond offers the same benefits and logic to Van Gaal as the 3-5-2 but it would no doubt be easier to implement right now, with these players.

If we sign Carvalho in particular I think it's a no brainer that Van Gaal will try the diamond.
 
Di Maria, Ander and a non-De Jong type of sitting player sounds gung ho but maybe it'd work against 90% of teams and we'd have do something else against the best teams in the CL who would exploit the lack of defensive cover
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
That's about the best I have seen to be honest could work very well, think this could also work, & give us some genuine width.


De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Herrera ----- Carvalho
Rooney
Janujaz-----RVP----Di Maria


​
Click to expand...

I think the problem with Rooney there is that the way he plays it forces Di Maria/Januzaj to stay wide. Rooney 9 times out of ten will pick it up, make a half turn and then try to ping it wide. It will work a lot better with those two there but I think it would reduce the variability in how we could play. I don't think Rooney can bring either in to the came coming from outside to inside in the way Mata can.

That said wouldn't be suprised at all if that's what we went for, although I think LVG did say that if we went 433 he has to leave out one of Rooney/RVP so could be that he thinks that Rooney's game in that role is too limited as well.
 
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