Denis Zakaria / signed for Juventus

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I have only ever see him play the odd CL game here and there and a few games for the Swiss National team so I don't know much about him.

The fact Granit Xhaka kept him out of the Swiss team in the Euros worries me though. If that was down to fitness fair enough but if it wasn't then we need to look for better as Xhaka is bleeding rubbish.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
I have only ever see him play the odd CL game here and there and a few games for the Swiss National team so I don't know much about him.

The fact Granit Xhaka kept him out of the Swiss team in the Euros worries me though. If that was down to fitness fair enough but if it wasn't then we need to look for better as Xhaka is bleeding rubbish.
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Kalvin Phillips kept Bellingham out of the England team in the Euros.

Which of those would you rather at United?
 
padzilla said:
I am sure he is, be it training or talking a good game on Instagram, but the fact remains he has been nowhere near good enough on the pitch for quite some time and there is little to suggest that is changing anytime soon.

Given the world-record fee (!!!!!!) involved and the low standard of his performances, he is a genuine candidate for one of the worst signings in the club's history.
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Hyperbolic nonsense.

He's not been as consistent this season, part of that is down to the rather sporadic nature of the teams form this season, but to say he's no where near good enough is absolute hogwash.
 
Champ said:
Hyperbolic nonsense.

He's not been as consistent this season, part of that is down to the rather sporadic nature of the teams form this season, but to say he's no where near good enough is absolute hogwash.
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Are you his agent?

Your recollection of his time at the club seems at odds with reality but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, I hope he becomes the player you think is someday.
 
For 6-7M and the little wage he will ask (compare to Pogba and VDB) he would be a plus for the team.

We are short of midfielders and if Mc Fred are no there, we have only slowmotion Matic.

So knowing that we will lose some players this summer, for this amount I would sign him right now.
 
A bit funny that the player he is most similar to in top five leagues in Europe is McTominay, according to Statsbomb! Hopefully he is more of a 6 with natural defensive instincts than McTominay.

I remember Adnan mentioned him a few years ago as a player with qualities we need if we want to play with a high line. I guess he will be proven correct if Rangnick brings him in.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
I have only ever see him play the odd CL game here and there and a few games for the Swiss National team so I don't know much about him.

The fact Granit Xhaka kept him out of the Swiss team in the Euros worries me though. If that was down to fitness fair enough but if it wasn't then we need to look for better as Xhaka is bleeding rubbish.
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I think Xhaka has generally played really well for the Swiss. The bigger concern is probably that Remo Freuler, who is good but not great, also kept him out. And when he came on he covered ground well but didn't look anything special on the ball. Cheap, though.
 
andersj said:
A bit funny that the player he is most similar to in top five leagues in Europe is McTominay, according to Statsbomb! Hopefully he is more of a 6 with natural defensive instincts than McTominay.

I remember Adnan mentioned him a few years ago as a player with qualities we need if we want to play with a high line. I guess he will be proven correct if Rangnick brings him in.
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I wouldn't say I would be proven correct, but this profile of player is someone that can give the team defensive solidity in a high line. He's not gonna be someone that you look at to control the game in possession but rather he's someone that you buy to control the space in behind in a compact high block, off the ball. So when we talk about systems, then Zakaria provides a defensive balance off the ball, which should provide the platform for someone like Pogba to be more effective in the game. I personally would play a 3 man midfield, if we end up signing Zakaria this month, with Zakaria at the base flanked by two #8s. That should give us more control because the two #8s can also drop deeper in the build up phase.

But having said that, he didn't look the same player after returning from a very bad injury. And I haven't followed Gladbach since Marco Rose left, so I hope we do our due dilligence if we're to sign him. But we should look to sign someone, even if it means putting a plaster over it for 5 months. Boosting the midfield could potentially make a significant difference for the remainder of the season.
 
Bestietom said:
He is straight to the point. What have you got against him.
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Straight to moaning and whinging constantly. Most content is just media bollocks rehashed. Terrible terrible channel, some people must lead very sad lives if that’s entertaining to them.
If you’re him by the way your channel is turd.
 
Would love to know why our board is quibbling over a transfer that will amount to £6-7m for a position we definitely need to improve on and for a player that could improve us in said position.
 
The Corinthian said:
Would love to know why our board is quibbling over a transfer that will amount to £6-7m for a position we definitely need to improve on and for a player that could improve us in said position.
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They're probably not to be fair, but we've not got rid of anyone yet, so no one will come in before that.
 
Lash said:
They're probably not to be fair, but we've not got rid of anyone yet, so no one will come in before that.
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Why do they need to get rid first?

Pogba, Lingard, Cavani and most likely Martial will be gone by the summer, so the first team squad will be trimming down in around 5 months regardless.
 
The Corinthian said:
Would love to know why our board is quibbling over a transfer that will amount to £6-7m for a position we definitely need to improve on and for a player that could improve us in said position.
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Because it most likely isn't the board quibbling over money, but whether he is actually the right player to bring in. He hasn't been as good since his leg break and he isn't really a classic CDM, more akin to Fred/McTominay. I'd hazard a guess that its more Rangnick, Murtough and Fletcher plus our scouting team making the decision.
 
macheda14 said:
Because it most likely isn't the board quibbling over money, but whether he is actually the right player to bring in. He hasn't been as good since his leg break and he isn't really a classic CDM, more akin to Fred/McTominay. I'd hazard a guess that its more Rangnick, Murtough and Fletcher plus our scouting team making the decision.
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Also he is out of contract in the summer, so he's going to be talking to other clubs and may not want to join in January as could get a more lucrative offer in a few months.
 
The Corinthian said:
Why do they need to get rid first?

Pogba, Lingard, Cavani and most likely Martial will be gone by the summer, so the first team squad will be trimming down in around 5 months regardless.
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Because you don't just keep adding to your wage bill and spending money for the fun of it. We're still a business.
 
Lash said:
Because you don't just keep adding to your wage bill and spending money for the fun of it. We're still a business.
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Our wages vary between 45-50% of our overall revenue.

In 6 months time, with the 4 players I’ve mentioned above, we’ll be releasing players collectively on close to £750k a week. So it’s not a cash flow problem or a spend problem.
 
The Corinthian said:
Why do they need to get rid first?

Pogba, Lingard, Cavani and most likely Martial will be gone by the summer, so the first team squad will be trimming down in around 5 months regardless.
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We won't manage to get rid of anyone this window anyway because we will be too proud to accept low offers, or loan offers that involve us paying a significant part of the players salary and no one is stupid enough to pay our dross what we want
 
Lash said:
Because you don't just keep adding to your wage bill and spending money for the fun of it. We're still a business.
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If its the difference between us getting champions league football or not then its a tiny amount to pay
 
The Corinthian said:
Would love to know why our board is quibbling over a transfer that will amount to £6-7m for a position we definitely need to improve on and for a player that could improve us in said position.
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If I had to guess, we'll pay 70m for Rice in the summer just to add even more overpaid players to the mix. What I hope is we'll be ambitious to build a finally legit midfield for Premier League.

Rice or Zakaria, we might still end with McFred for next season. Won't be surprised in the slightest.
 
Adnan said:
I wouldn't say I would be proven correct, but this profile of player is someone that can give the team defensive solidity in a high line. He's not gonna be someone that you look at to control the game in possession but rather he's someone that you buy to control the space in behind in a compact high block, off the ball. So when we talk about systems, then Zakaria provides a defensive balance off the ball, which should provide the platform for someone like Pogba to be more effective in the game. I personally would play a 3 man midfield, if we end up signing Zakaria this month, with Zakaria at the base flanked by two #8s. That should give us more control because the two #8s can also drop deeper in the build up phase.

But having said that, he didn't look the same player after returning from a very bad injury. And I haven't followed Gladbach since Marco Rose left, so I hope we do our due dilligence if we're to sign him. But we should look to sign someone, even if it means putting a plaster over it for 5 months. Boosting the midfield could potentially make a significant difference for the remainder of the season.
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One thing is certain, we are not achieving anything if we don't sign a midfielder this month. Whether Zakaria is that midfielder remains to be seen but even if we decide against him we need another.

And if we decide to write off this season this decision could turn out to be another of several watershed moments in our continued decline because missing out on the CL this season is going to be really costly and damaging to our long term aspirations.
 
The Corinthian said:
Our wages vary between 45-50% of our overall revenue.

In 6 months time, with the 4 players I’ve mentioned above, we’ll be releasing players collectively on close to £750k a week. So it’s not a cash flow problem or a spend problem.
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Wages are clearly not the only expense we have as a business. Why was it plastered about all summer that we won't get a DM unless anyone leaves? It's clearly an issue for us if you want to maximise your operating margin for the year, which obviously we would.

I haven't even got the fact that do we even know if he's good enough to warrant the wages or potential big signing on fee that he'll want.
Matt851 said:
If its the difference between us getting champions league football or not then its a tiny amount to pay
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Zakaria is not going to be the difference between us and getting champions league football.
 
andersj said:
A bit funny that the player he is most similar to in top five leagues in Europe is McTominay, according to Statsbomb! Hopefully he is more of a 6 with natural defensive instincts than McTominay.

I remember Adnan mentioned him a few years ago as a player with qualities we need if we want to play with a high line. I guess he will be proven correct if Rangnick brings him in.
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From the bits ive seen he definitely looks more like competition for McTominay in the box to box role than the DM that we actually need. For DM Tchouameni looks like the best option, Boubacar Kamara probably the best value option (contract ending, low cost)
 
Scholsey2004 said:
From the bits ive seen he definitely looks more like competition for McTominay in the box to box role than the DM that we actually need. For DM Tchouameni looks like the best option, Boubacar Kamara probably the best value option (contract ending, low cost)
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Kamara is fantastic and looks even more energetic than Tchouameni.
 
Lash said:
Wages are clearly not the only expense we have as a business. Why was it plastered about all summer that we won't get a DM unless anyone leaves? It's clearly an issue for us if you want to maximise your operating margin for the year, which obviously we would.

I haven't even got the fact that do we even know if he's good enough to warrant the wages or potential big signing on fee that he'll want.
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They're not the only expense, but they tend to be the largest and most substantial. We wanted a DM last summer, but spunked the squad place by getting Ronaldo at the 11th hour, a decision we're still suffering for now. Again, I'll reiterate, we'll be saving almost £750k (if not higher) of wages come five months time from doing nothing as well as opening up a further 4 squad places. It's not a cashflow problem, and it shouldn't be for a club of our size.
 
Champ said:
Instead of buying a player who won't improve us in the slightest??
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How do you know they wont improve us? You have a crystal ball?

Have you watched any of our matches this season? McFred has shown again and again, that we get hammered in the midfield more than 75% of the games this season, new system or not. Pogba has shown no consistency, and Matic can barely cover any ground.

another one who would rather continue with what we have until the end of the season. Maybe you still believe in your dreams that we are going to sign Neves, De Jong or Rice this January?
 
Lash said:
Wages are clearly not the only expense we have as a business. Why was it plastered about all summer that we won't get a DM unless anyone leaves? It's clearly an issue for us if you want to maximise your operating margin for the year, which obviously we would.

I haven't even got the fact that do we even know if he's good enough to warrant the wages or potential big signing on fee that he'll want.

Zakaria is not going to be the difference between us and getting champions league football.
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Can you tell me what next weeks lottery numbers will be please?
 
Jibbs said:
Kamara is fantastic and looks even more energetic than Tchouameni.
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I like Kamara a lot. On paper Tchouameni is statistically outperforming him in just about every facet of play though despite being a year younger. I'd be very happy bringing in Kamara though.
 
VP89 said:
To be fair, you don't know that
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True, but then we could just say anything because it could happen. Signing a DM who's never played in our league, only just coming back from a major injury, coming into a pretty low on morale squad - I'd say the odds are pretty stacked in my favour.
Matt851 said:
Can you tell me what next weeks lottery numbers will be please?
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You're the one who thinks signing a random player is going to some how propel us to CL football.
The Corinthian said:
They're not the only expense, but they tend to be the largest and most substantial. We wanted a DM last summer, but spunked the squad place by getting Ronaldo at the 11th hour, a decision we're still suffering for now. Again, I'll reiterate, we'll be saving almost £750k (if not higher) of wages come five months time from doing nothing as well as opening up a further 4 squad places. It's not a cashflow problem, and it shouldn't be for a club of our size.
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I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said on the fact that wages are most substantial, or the fact we'll free up wage budget in the summer, but it's just not how you would plan a financial year for a business. There's also no guarentee adding this person would help us in anyway, so why would gamble any more money on players until we offload the ones we know we don't want.
 
Lash said:
True, but then we could just say anything because it could happen. Signing a DM who's never played in our league, only just coming back from a major injury, coming into a pretty low on morale squad - I'd say the odds are pretty stacked in my favour.
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I mean he's 6m on the fee and not likely to be big on wages. He's in a position we need to strengthen in and he's played enough since his injury it seems.

I agree it's a risk given he hasn't fully realised his pre-injury minutes but for that sort of a fee and given what we have, I don't see how it's not goign to help us. Assuming the alternative is nothing at all.
 
VP89 said:
I mean he's 6m on the fee and not likely to be big on wages. He's in a position we need to strengthen in and he's played enough since his injury it seems.

I agree it's a risk given he hasn't fully realised his pre-injury minutes but for that sort of a fee and given what we have, I don't see how it's not goign to help us. Assuming the alternative is nothing at all.
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I agree if the alternative is nothing, but I think we have pretty fundamental problems to get over first before Zakaria will have any sort of influence in our squad. For example, I actually think chance creation currently is a huge problem for us and he's not going to help us with that - you might argue he could win the ball higher up the pitch, but in general our forwards and offensive players have not gelled at all.

As much as I'd love someone new in midfield so I didn't have to watch Fred's trampoline foot and Scott just boot the ball out into touch, just rushing out and getting Zakaria doesn't seem like a great idea. It's not like Gladbach were doing very well when he was there either.
 
Lash said:
I agree if the alternative is nothing, but I think we have pretty fundamental problems to get over first before Zakaria will have any sort of influence in our squad. For example, I actually think chance creation currently is a huge problem for us and he's not going to help us with that - you might argue he could win the ball higher up the pitch, but in general our forwards and offensive players have not gelled at all.

As much as I'd love someone new in midfield so I didn't have to watch Fred's trampoline foot and Scott just boot the ball out into touch, just rushing out and getting Zakaria doesn't seem like a great idea. It's not like Gladbach were doing very well when he was there either.
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The reason our attack play is poor, I don't think is actually because of our attackers.

I actually think our issue is that we cant sustain attacks because as Rangnick rightly put, we get flipped over on transitions so easily.

You can see the press is triggered when oppositions pass to the full backs, but the full backs always drill a pass into midfield where our midfielders fail to regain possession on heavy touches or they read the game poorly. Zakaria would help a lot in the decision making and off the ball work. His pass rate is really impressive on top, which we desperately need in the middle with McFred and Bruno carelessly throwing the ball away.

We have the right players offensively, I think we just need to keep the game in the oppositions third to allow them to keep sustaining attacks. But if the 3 behind them are considerably leaky then it ends up being a wild west match. That's why Rangnick put 3 in the middle and then changed to a diamond vs Villa. I think he's right to recognize it as an area of where we need to improve to control and therefore attack.
 
Lash said:
True, but then we could just say anything because it could happen. Signing a DM who's never played in our league, only just coming back from a major injury, coming into a pretty low on morale squad - I'd say the odds are pretty stacked in my favour.

You're the one who thinks signing a random player is going to some how propel us to CL football.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said on the fact that wages are most substantial, or the fact we'll free up wage budget in the summer, but it's just not how you would plan a financial year for a business. There's also no guarentee adding this person would help us in anyway, so why would gamble any more money on players until we offload the ones we know we don't want.
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I certainly didn't say it would propel us to CL football. However it could make a small difference in our points total which could push us over the line.

At the moment its not looking likely but none of the team we are competing with are great so we still have a chance

Currently the only DM we have is an immobile matic so if ralf thinks he could contribute then £6m isn't much and he could be a useful backup next season
 
That hate for McFred has amounted to people wanting anyone even if they have never seen them play or know feck all about them. He won't solve our problem as long as we play with two in midfield......
 
VP89 said:
The reason our attack play is poor, I don't think is actually because of our attackers.

I actually think our issue is that we cant sustain attacks because as Rangnick rightly put, we get flipped over on transitions so easily.

You can see the press is triggered when oppositions pass to the full backs, but the full backs always drill a pass into midfield where our midfielders fail to regain possession on heavy touches or they read the game poorly. Zakaria would help a lot in the decision making and off the ball work. His pass rate is really impressive on top, which we desperately need in the middle with McFred and Bruno carelessly throwing the ball away.

We have the right players offensively, I think we just need to keep the game in the oppositions third to allow them to keep sustaining attacks. But if the 3 behind them are considerably leaky then it ends up being a wild west match. That's why Rangnick put 3 in the middle and then changed to a diamond vs Villa. I think he's right to recognize it as an area of where we need to improve to control and therefore attack.
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I think that is a seperate problem with our attack, one I do not dispute. IMO our real issue is attackers can't keep the ball high up the pitch, let alone create chances. Rashford runs down blind alleys, Greenwood is one dimensional, Sancho is still adapting and is sloppy at times, while Bruno is horrifically out of form. On top of that, the wide players aren't really on the same page as full backs. So all of those things lead to easy turnovers and buckets of space our midfield can't protect well enough to stop us getting broken on.

Whilst I agree Zakaria could help us in one regard, I'm not convinced that he adds enough value to us right now to gamble on:

1) Having the same potential prior to his injury
2) Him being a significant upgrade in quality (Bundesliga tends to be very hit and miss)
3) Adapting to the league
4) Adapting to a squad in as poorer form as ours right now.

Anyway, if we get a few players out on loan or sell, I think the above is worth gambling on for the price. I just can easily see why we're not just pulling the trigger right now.
 
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