Declan Rice

[Olecurls99]

If we don’t get frenkie, would it be worth paying a extra 20mil and going for this guy?

No. Modern day David Batty

 

[Rojofiam]

We’re not sure if we get FDJ and Garner and VDB are not in the same class as Matic and Pogba. The idea of our being competitive with those two in the team is pretty fanciful.

I’m taking Garner and VDB over Matic and Pogba in 2022 without a doubt.

 

[bringbackbebe]

If we don’t get frenkie, would it be worth paying a extra 20mil and going for this guy?

The idea of getting FDJ is he understands the way ETH wants to play and act as a pivot in midfield to execute his ideas pretty easily. Declan Rice will not be able to do that + carries the English premium. If he comes in for 40m & as a squad player, sure that's a great deal and he can compete with McTominay. At 90m and expecting him to be the center of our plan, it's ridiculous.

 

[OrcaFat]

No. Modern day David Batty

Well firstly he is already better than Batty ever was. Secondly Batty was a good player. Batty at his best would improve us quite a bit.

 

[ForeverRed1]

The idea of getting FDJ is he understands the way ETH wants to play and act as a pivot in midfield to execute his ideas pretty easily. Declan Rice will not be able to do that + carries the English premium. If he comes in for 40m & as a squad player, sure that's a great deal and he can compete with McTominay. At 90m and expecting him to be the center of our plan, it's ridiculous.

Well of course we want frenkie. That much is clear, it’s just a question if he was to stay at Barca. They are different players of course .. rice is still a player who would improve our midfield tenfold.

 

[OrcaFat]

I’m taking Garner and VDB over Matic and Pogba in 2022 without a doubt.

The idea is pretty hilarious. VDB has done exactly nothing. Garner has done exactly nothing. Matic and Pogba were both contributing something. I’ll eat my words if we see Garner and VDB start together in a single PL game.

 

[Rojofiam]

The idea is pretty hilarious. VDB has done exactly nothing. Garner has done exactly nothing. Matic and Pogba were both contributing something. I’ll eat my words if we see Garner and VDB start together in a single PL game.

VDB has done nothing, but Garner is a very good player, you’ll see. Pogba wasn’t contributing shit, he was detrimental. Matic was way past it by 2019. We lose nothing with their departures other than numbers. Same with Lingard, Mata and Cavani.

 

[Olecurls99]

Well firstly he is already better than Batty ever was. Secondly Batty was a good player. Batty at his best would improve us quite a bit.

I think we should set our sights higher than Batty ball

 

[Kostov]

West Ham would want 100m pounds and it's a no go. 60m pounds for him would be a fair deal considering the circumstances.

 

[dweb]

No. Modern day David Batty

At least Rice crosses the half way line.

 

[OrcaFat]

I think we should set our sights higher than Batty ball

I agree with that, of course. Current standard is a bit lower, unfortunately.

 

[OrcaFat]

VDB has done nothing, but Garner is a very good player, you’ll see. Pogba wasn’t contributing shit, he was detrimental. Matic was way past it by 2019. We lose nothing with their departures other than numbers. Same with Lingard, Mata and Cavani.

From what I’ve seen, Garner is decent but not title-challenging material (he does deserve a chance though imo).

Pogba was poor at times but at his worst was better than Donny. Matic was a shadow of his prime self but he still played a few decent games as long as he wasn’t required to play 90 mins or two games in a week. I don’t think anyone is really arguing that Matic and Pogba should have been kept; merely that Garner and DVB are worse.

 

[Rojofiam]

From what I’ve seen, Garner is decent but not title-challenging material (he does deserve a chance though imo).

Pogba was poor at times but at his worst was better than Donny. Matic was a shadow of his prime self but he still played a few decent games as long as he wasn’t required to play 90 mins or two games in a week. I don’t think anyone is really arguing that Matic and Pogba should have been kept; merely that Garner and DVB are worse.

Yes, but I don't agree. I'm not saying that Garner and VDB are world class options (especially Donny, I think he's a nothing player that was -and still is- worshipped by Ole's biggest haters because they thought we had a world class player on our books not getting any minutes). What I'm saying is that Pogba was detrimental to the team in central midfield, whilst Matic was only useful for us in his very first season, and was a shadow of his former self by 2019. He did have some good games for us even after that, but losing him and Pogba doesn't really mean anything. They were never going to play an important part

 

[OrcaFat]

Yes, but I don't agree. I'm not saying that Garner and VDB are world class options (especially Donny, I think he's a nothing player that was -and still is- worshipped by Ole's biggest haters because they thought we had a world class player on our books not getting any minutes). What I'm saying is that Pogba was detrimental to the team in central midfield, whilst Matic was only useful for us in his very first season, and was a shadow of his former self by 2019. He did have some good games for us even after that, but losing him and Pogba doesn't really mean anything. They were never going to play an important part

Yes. I mean, I think we might be disagreeing about something inconsequential. I think I chipped in on this to support the idea that we need to recruit in CM. The idea that we can just play Garner and VDB instead just heightened my fears rather than allaying them.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yes. I mean, I think we might be disagreeing about something inconsequential. I think I chipped in on this to support the idea that we need to recruit in CM. The idea that we can just play Garner and VDB instead just heightened my fears rather than allaying them.

Yes, but I'm assuming that we'll sign de Jong. FDJ, McT, Fred, Garner and VdB wouldn't be as bad as people would make it out. Matic would be playing like 5-10 games a year if he stayed. And my opinion on Pogba is still that it's better he's gone.

Edit: Ten Hag has also mentioned that Eriksen could potentially play deeper than Fernandes, and not just be competition for the Portuguese. Whilst I doubt that will happen often (if ever), it might be another option on top of the others. FDJ picking up an injury would still feck our season, though. And McTominay too. He was a massive difference maker under Ole I felt like. So Garner has to show his worth anyways.

 

[OrcaFat]

Yes, but I'm assuming that we'll sign de Jong. FDJ, McT, Fred, Garner and VdB wouldn't be as bad as people would make it out. Matic would be playing like 5-10 games a year if he stayed. And my opinion on Pogba is still that it's better he's gone.

Edit: Ten Hag has also mentioned that Eriksen could potentially play deeper than Fernandes, and not just be competition for the Portuguese. Whilst I doubt that will happen often (if ever), it might be another option on top of the others.

Again, I don’t really disagree about Matic and Pogba in terms of they weren’t good enough any more but I’m thinking in terms of replacing two players in the elite bracket which they both were in the past and have never been replaced with players of similar calibre.

Every player declines and when you look to replace them you don’t set a bar one notch above their current shitty level. On the other hand, recruitment isn’t easy and if we can’t get the likes of FDJ we have to look at ways to make clear improvements on what we have, either by coaching (including bringing kids through) or pragmatic recruitment of second tier options. The argument of Garner etc then comes into it because you have to recruit players better than him to make it worthwhile. My opinion is that it wouldn’t be difficult to sign better players than Garner but I’m happy to give him a shot; either way we need to make a decision on keeping or selling him while his stock is reasonably high and it’s tough to do that without giving him minutes.

 

[Rojofiam]

Again, I don’t really disagree about Matic and Pogba in terms of they weren’t good enough any more but I’m thinking in terms of replacing two players in the elite bracket which they both were in the past and have never been replaced with players of similar calibre.

Every player declines and when you look to replace them you don’t set a bar one notch above their current shitty level. On the other hand, recruitment isn’t easy and if we can’t get the likes of FDJ we have to look at ways to make clear improvements on what we have, either by coaching (including bringing kids through) or pragmatic recruitment of second tier options. The argument of Garner etc then comes into it because you have to recruit players better than him to make it worthwhile. My opinion is that it wouldn’t be difficult to sign better players than Garner but I’m happy to give him a shot; either way we need to make a decision on keeping or selling him while his stock is reasonably high and it’s tough to do that without giving him minutes.

I'm very confident ETH's abilities and I think this squad can easily get top4 with a world class manager. If we sign FDJ, next summer we can be looking for another world class midfielder / huge prospect to partner him. Be that Rice or someone else. Or maybe Garner / McTominay will be that player. Under the new manager a lot of players branded shit could come good imo. We've already seen Dalot and Martial actually playing really well in pre-season.

 

[OrcaFat]

I'm very confident ETH's abilities and I think this squad can easily get top4 with a world class manager. If we sign FDJ, next summer we can be looking for another world class midfielder / huge prospect to partner him. Be that Rice or someone else. Or maybe Garner / McTominay will be that player. Under the new manager a lot of players branded shit could come good imo. We've already seen Dalot and Martial actually playing really well in pre-season.

Yeah I’m on board with that!

 

[Marcus]

West Ham would want 100m pounds and it's a no go. 60m pounds for him would be a fair deal considering the circumstances.

We might as well pay the 17million owed to Frankie if we are willing to pay ridiculous money for Rice.

 

[Kostov]

We might as well pay the 17million owed to Frankie if we are willing to pay ridiculous money for Rice.

I'd be surprised if we didn't actually try that by now, the guy doesn't fancy Europa League and wants to stay by the looks of it.

 

[scottser]

Much like Harry Kane, I don’t know what ever possesses these super talented young players (at the time of signing) to sign huge, 5-6 year deals. What kind of competent agent allows a client to sign a deal that long?

I understand he likes West Ham, but he’s trapped himself there and is wasting years of his best playing days. Just like Kane.

The same ones who encourage them to play for England after declaring for Ireland youths.
Sad face

 

[WeePat]

At Ajax, FdJ was the CB/CDM-hybrid. I dont think EtH would want a type like Rice next to FdJ. Rather he would want someone who is comfortable pushing higher up the pitch, in between the opposition CB and MC and (almost next to Bruno when in possession).

When at Ajax he played with two 6’s, but with different tasks. FdJ was the «connector» (a word EtH recently used to describe Freds job), while Schone often pushed higher.

The perfect player next to FdJ would probably be someone like Kovacic. Or maybe Modric is in his prime.

They're very similar players, basically fulfilling the same function in a team. FDJ is a better passer though, while Kovacic is a better dribbler.

 

[Bebestation]

De Jong as a CB for Barcelona just proves to me that he is more a playmaker that roams in to CB but roams to CM and then even CAM positions rather than being a CB/CDM defensive hybrid player like Rice or even Martinez is.

All De Jong turns is becoming more static and being more a deep lying playmaker than a roaming playmaker. We buy his more deeper static partner and then he gets to roam all over the pitch to create the way he does/ten Hag says he wants to/like a shark.

 

[andersj]

They're very similar players, basically fulfilling the same function in a team. FDJ is a better passer though, while Kovacic is a better dribbler.

It appears that quite a few people seem to think so, and I think that is why they see Frenkie/Rice as a good match, but I am not sure that I agree. Not the way EtH deployed Frenkie de Jong (or van Gaal for that matter).

Both is quite "complete midfielders", box-to-box-players, but Frenke contribute alot more in the early build up and defensive third. Kovacic, on the other hand, contributes a lot more heavily in the final third.

I think their data from Statsbomb, looking at Frenkies performance in the CL campaign for Ajax in 18/19 and Kovacic this year in CL and PL support that:

- Kovacic made 84,5 touches/involvements per 90 min; 1,41 in the defensive penalty area, 14,3 in the the defensive third and 24,1 in the attacking third
- FdJ made 86,4 touches/involvements per 90 min; 4,22 in the defensive penalty area, 22,2 in the the defensive third and 14,2 in the attacking third

Kovacic also makes alot more passes into the penalty area than Frenkie de Jong. While FdJ appears to be a bit more progressive with his passing (probably due to be passing from a deeper position). Their is a similar pattern in their pressing numbers. Kovacic press more in the final third, while Frenke de Jong press more in the defensive third.

 

[TheNewEra]

Rather pay 80M for this guy at CDM then McFred, Rabiot or whoever the Glazers are looking at right now.

23 year old DM who will only get better, vs 18M on Rabiot? what a joke.

Glazers should be backing ETH with FDJ and a destroyer to fix the midfield.

 

[avgp_1]

He is lined up to join Chelsea next year, we ain't getting him

 

[Superunknown]

Rather pay 80M for this guy at CDM then McFred, Rabiot or whoever the Glazers are looking at right now.

23 year old DM who will only get better, vs 18M on Rabiot? what a joke.

Glazers should be backing ETH with FDJ and a destroyer to fix the midfield.

I like him a lot, too. But, West Ham won't be letting him go for that amount. They can get more than that. He's got a contract until 2024 and he's a huge player for them. We would be paying well over the odds, ridiculous money to get him in. It's a non-starter.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

Rather pay 80M for this guy at CDM then McFred, Rabiot or whoever the Glazers are looking at right now.

23 year old DM who will only get better, vs 18M on Rabiot? what a joke.

Glazers should be backing ETH with FDJ and a destroyer to fix the midfield.

I don't think EtH wants this type of player. Rice has been a big target for United for a while now, and plenty of rumors in the winter that the club were going all out on this transfer, regardless of who the manager is. EtH comes into United, and I haven't seen Rice's name linked to us once since. Especially considering what we are willing to pay for FDJ, and no one has come in for Rice, if we were interested still I would imagine we would be actively exploring this, and we aren't.

 

[mitchmouse]

I wonder if the people saying Rice isn't good enough are the same who were saying it will all be fine...

 

[mu4c_20le]

We have 0 chance to get him without CL. He's more Chelsea bound than Frenkie.

 

[SilentWitness]

I honestly think West Ham would push for a 100m type fee for him/a very very silly fee for him this summer. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a gentlemens agreement with him that he gives them this year and next year he's allowed to go, especially if they go backwards.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Hmm wonder what the Glazers prefer a 15 m signing or a fecking 100 m ?

 

[Adam-Utd]

He's just as crap anyway. Look at the way he lost De Bruyne and was jogging along as they scored the 2nd goal.

He'd be another 80m mistake.

 

[cyberman]

Can’t see why we should give up on Rabiot because of what he lacks going forward then sign Rice for over 100m

 

[sewey89]

Not a prayer he comes here. Feels like Haaland with City. We know he'll be going to a top team next summer and it won't be us.

Chelsea I suspect.

 

[GledTheRed]

Be a sideways step for him.

 

[sun_tzu]

When is the Europa qualification play off?

Might be worth a bid if they fail to qualify... offer the 85m we are apparently prepared to pay for dejong

Stick some addons on there if needed to get the deal over the line

We were crying out for a player like him at the weekend

 

[Rolaholic]

He is lined up to join Chelsea next year, we ain't getting him

Signing De Jong and Rice to replace Jorginho and Kante would be precisely what an ambitious and serious club would do.

Must be nice

 

[Bestie07]

He is lined up to join Chelsea next year, we ain't getting him

So Chelsea will sign him and de Jong? Boy have they stumbled onto a good American owner. Why did we have such horrible luck to end up with the worst of the lot

 

[hmchan]

I don't think EtH wants this type of player. Rice has been a big target for United for a while now, and plenty of rumors in the winter that the club were going all out on this transfer, regardless of who the manager is. EtH comes into United, and I haven't seen Rice's name linked to us once since. Especially considering what we are willing to pay for FDJ, and no one has come in for Rice, if we were interested still I would imagine we would be actively exploring this, and we aren't.

Just because Rice hasn't played in Eredivisie.