Declan Rice

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Hammondo said:
Nonexistent last night. With 11 men they were completely beaten in midfield at home.
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Really?

From the extended highlights I saw it seemed like Lyon's attack was not happening centrally and so they had to go primarily use an attack from out wide. 23 shots lyon had against a 10 man West ham yet they only had 4 shots on target which was one more than West ham did with 10 men.

This was the stats that i saw on an article where Jack Wilshere was praising him for his performance yesterday.

* Against Lyon, Dec had 66 touches and made three tackles, four interceptions and two clearances. He made two dribbles and one key pass. From 45 attempted passes he recorded an 86.7% completion rate.*


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ha...ter-west-ham-vs-lyon-europa-league-clash/amp/
 
Bebestation said:
Really?

From the extended highlights I saw it seemed like Lyon's attack was not happening centrally and so they had to go primarily use an attack from out wide. 23 shots lyon had against a 10 man West ham yet they only had 4 shots on target which was one more than West ham did with 10 men.

This was the stats that i saw on an article where Jack Wilshere was praising him for his performance yesterday.

* Against Lyon, Dec had 66 touches and made three tackles, four interceptions and two clearances. He made two dribbles and one key pass. From 45 attempted passes he recorded an 86.7% completion rate.*


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ha...ter-west-ham-vs-lyon-europa-league-clash/amp/
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Well I watched the whole thing, with 11 men they couldn't keep the ball and they parked the bus. No one could get through all those players.

The point is he can only really give up the ball and defend against half decent team.
 
Hammondo said:
Well I watched the whole thing, with 11 men they couldn't keep the ball and they parked the bus. No one could get through all those players.

The point is he can only really give up the ball and defend against half decent team.
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Not a bad result to come off 1-1 against Lyon when they played 45 mins with 10 men though is it?

He is never going to sit their dominant with his key forward passing and possesion because he isn't that type of player. He isn't a Carrick, Neves or Phillips type of CDM.

For me his best ability is to protect the central attack of the opposition from penetrating the defenders and the goal. This is what he did for England reaching the Euro Final and is doing for West Ham in the PL and Europa League.


 
Bebestation said:
Not a bad result to come off 1-1 against Lyon when they played 45 mins with 10 men though is it?

He is never going to sit their dominant with his key forward passing and possesion because he isn't that type of player. He isn't a Carrick, Neves or Phillips type of CDM.

For me his best ability is to protect the central attack of the opposition from penetrating the defenders and the goal. This is what he did for England reaching the Euro Final and is doing for West Ham in the PL and Europa League.


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Thats not enough for a top club.
 
Hammondo said:
Thats not enough for a top club.
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It was perfectly fine for England to reach a Euro final.

And he doesn't play for a top club anyway. West Ham were 28% possesion yesterday.

That's not because of Declan Rice's midfield performance - that's how a whole West Ham team played and came out with a relatively good result for a ten man team because of his defensive ability in midfield.
 
Bebestation said:
It was perfectly fine for England to reach a Euro final.

And he doesn't play for a top club anyway. West Ham were 28% possesion yesterday.

That's not because of Declan Rice's midfield performance - that's how a whole West Ham team played and came out with a relatively good result for a ten man team because of his defensive ability in midfield.
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International football is a lower level of football.

Yesterday's possession was partly due to him, he did not help at all to get and keep the ball.
 
No chance this happens imo. Think he will cost a ridiculous amount, good chance he could take up the majority of our budget and this squad needs proper work, even the briefs from the board seem to suggest they are aware of the fact.
 
Hammondo said:
International football is a lower level of football.

Yesterday's possession was partly due to him, he did not help at all to get and keep the ball.
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Okay if you think Rice is the influence of a 28% possesion of a team that had 10 players for 45 mins then I guess that's how you watch football.

4 shots on target by lyon in 90 mins with West Ham having 3. That's either severely messed up by Lyon or done well by a 10 man West ham.

Most possesion won and the most interceptions.

And he did it without commiting a foul or getting a yellow because if he did - he would have been suspended for the next game aswell.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo.../declan-rice-yellow-card-suspension-lyon/amp/

I can see why Wilshere was talking well about Rice after the game and the stats were not exactly "non-existent" as you had mentioned.
 
Hammondo said:
Well I watched the whole thing, with 11 men they couldn't keep the ball and they parked the bus. No one could get through all those players.

The point is he can only really give up the ball and defend against half decent team.
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You clearly didn’t watch the game because in the first half they certainly didn’t park the bus.

Like I said in the other thread they defiantly matched Lyon in the first half.
 
He was average last night, I thought. Particuarly annoyed me when he headed the ball to no one and gave it away, then complained that the player wasn't where he put it without looking. Lyon were terrible as well and played right into West ham's hands all game.
 
Bebestation said:
Okay if you think Rice is the influence of a 28% possesion of a team that had 10 players for 45 mins then I guess that's how you watch football.

4 shots on target by lyon in 90 mins with West Ham having 3. That's either severely messed up by Lyon or done well by a 10 man West ham.

Most possesion won and the most interceptions.

And he did it without commiting a foul or getting a yellow because if he did - he would have been suspended for the next game aswell.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo.../declan-rice-yellow-card-suspension-lyon/amp/

I can see why Wilshere was talking well about Rice after the game and the stats were not exactly "non-existent" as you had mentioned.
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Just defending is not good enough, it was no different with 11 men.
 
Tottenhamguy said:
You clearly didn’t watch the game because in the first half they certainly didn’t park the bus.

Like I said in the other thread they defiantly matched Lyon in the first half.
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They barely had the ball first half, struggled to do 4 passes. Wasn't a huge difference first half to second half.
 
People should stop digging in the stats and actually watch games. Is not how many things players do, but how they do it. If you knew nothing about him, you would think he was an average in that match. Because its clear that there is nothing special about him. There are a lot of cheaper and better options across europe.
 
He's now reaching over hyped levels in the media also which will be a big crash for him when he joins a top club.

What he does he does well, but that's maximising a very simple game plan on the ball, and being good positionally amongst a solid organised defence.

All I can say is if he was as good as some people make out, the biggest clubs in Europe would want him. Why are none of the big hitters chasing him?
 
I don’t like the numbers I’m seeing, but he’d still absolutely be my first choice DM if it could be done. Future captain too. Near future at that. Rice plus Bellingham midfield is a great foundation I think.
 
Adam-Utd said:
He's now reaching over hyped levels in the media also which will be a big crash for him when he joins a top club.

What he does he does well, but that's maximising a very simple game plan on the ball, and being good positionally amongst a solid organised defence.

All I can say is if he was as good as some people make out, the biggest clubs in Europe would want him. Why are none of the big hitters chasing him?
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Which clubs need a CM badly enough to have any interest in him at the price West Ham would set?
 
Lash said:
He was average last night, I thought. Particuarly annoyed me when he headed the ball to no one and gave it away, then complained that the player wasn't where he put it without looking. Lyon were terrible as well and played right into West ham's hands all game.
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Yeah, an example of lacking composure under pressure. That weakness of his was on show last night. Is good carrying the ball forwards, but lacks the agility to turn under pressure and, despite his size, isn't the best at shielding the ball.
 
He only worth 60m at most if he is foreigner.
Even with English tax I won’t pay more than 70m for him.
 
Yagami said:
Yeah, an example of lacking composure under pressure. That weakness of his was on show last night. Is good carrying the ball forwards, but lacks the agility to turn under pressure and, despite his size, isn't the best at shielding the ball.
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I actually thought he was most effective higher up yesterday, weirdly the left flank, was full back-ish.
 
Feels to me a bit like the Grealish situation - there was a time and price it would have been a great signing, but that ship sailed.

150m? That's more than our entire squad rebuild is going to get :/
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Which clubs need a CM badly enough to have any interest in him at the price West Ham would set?
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IF he's as good as everybody makes out, surely you make space for him in any team no?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 
Womp said:
No chance this happens imo. Think he will cost a ridiculous amount, good chance he could take up the majority of our budget and this squad needs proper work, even the briefs from the board seem to suggest they are aware of the fact.
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He’s a good player but I agree with you that we shouldn’t blow most of our budget only on him. For his reported price, we could get 2 or 3 players instead.
 
I thought he was shite against Lyon. He considers himself world class. What a joke. He needs to show some humility and continue working hard. He's let the hype get to him.
 
His fan club just gets more and more ridiculous with every passing day. People just don’t understand that defensive midfielders will never command the sort of fees that regularly get banded about when it comes to Rice, they simply don’t have enough influence (however good they are) to justify 9 figure sums. That kind of money should only ever be paid for people who stick the ball in the net.
 
I've never once watched him and thought he looked like a player who you spend an exorbitant amount of money on.

West Ham are right to ward suitors off because he is vital to them and their growing aspirations, but a buying club, unless oil/state, should not be blowing an entire transfer budget on this level/quality of player, and that's not a slight on Rice as there are few players anywhere close to being justifiable as one-window, consummate purchases.

He's a £60m odd player at best and it's a different discussion at that kind of price point. He's got far too much to prove to be worth eye-watering figures, and by that, I mean north of £70m. West Ham and England are both negative, defensive teams who shell up and protect by numbers - the opposite of what offensive, expansive attacking teams do. There's a massive set of question marks against him in this regard. The entire thought process and approach to the game then, is the polar opposite of what Rice is making his name playing.

How good he is in an eclectic sense genuinely remains to be seen; he's a common sense prime target for defence-first managers and teams who offer the pinnacle of what he's already making his name off playing, but other teams, for his price, really will be taking a leap of faith blowing so much on him.
 
Tavern in the town said:
His fan club just gets more and more ridiculous with every passing day. People just don’t understand that defensive midfielders will never command the sort of fees that regularly get banded about when it comes to Rice, they simply don’t have enough influence (however good they are) to justify 9 figure sums. That kind of money should only ever be paid for people who stick the ball in the net.
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I’d have paid it for prime Busquets, who does everything Rice does, but better, and then is in a different stratosphere altogether on the ball.
 
Hammondo said:
Agreed.
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I think we’d end up with another Maguire problem if we spent that big on Rice, he’d be an internet meme in no time with tonnes of short clip examples of him in tight spaces.

You’d have everyone laughing at how much Liverpool spent on Fabinho (a far superior player) and Chelsea on Kante, yet we spunked 80m on Rice, it’d make us a laughing stock again for our braindead recruitment policies.

And none of this is to say he wouldn’t be a handy player for any team to have around, he likely would.
 
Rice was fairly average on Thursday, and has been for some time.

Anyone viewing Thursday's match through the prism of statistics is totally missing the point on his performance and the way West Ham played.

West Ham essentially conceded the middle third of the pitch to draw Lyon and their high line forward with a view to breaking in behind, or going for a very deep press with the front 3 or 4 trying to take the ball within 30 yards of goal, and scored that way with ten men. West Ham were the only team pressuring the opposition 'keeper in the first half. Possession was roughly 60-40 to Lyon, but West Ham's was against a much more open defence, but most of it went to waste on the West Ham left. That's where Lingard will come back in, presumably.

Second half was 80-20 possession Lyon, but again Lyon rarely troubled the 'keeper.

Contrary to the media narrative, West Ham are not a one man team - and first and foremost, they are a team. The sum of the parts is greater than the quality of the individual components.

Half that team have been relegated at some point or spent many years in the championship.

The total cost of the XI that played was about £130m, which is peanuts for a team that has been top six for most of the last two years.
 
Watching him today makes me wonder, how is his club demanding 150m for him? He is a mediocre player. We should learn our Maguire and AWB lessons. If we pay to get him it means this club never learns.
 
Giggsyking said:
Watching him today makes me wonder, how is his club demanding 150m for him? He is a mediocre player. We should learn our Maguire and AWB lessons. If we pay to get him it means this club never learns.
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He isn’t a mediocre player at all, you need to take into account West Ham don’t rotate their squad so he’s probably knackered especially after playing a half in midweek with 10 men.

It’s safe to say Rice has had an important influence in West Ham’s performances in the last couple of years and to an extent England playing so well.

He is worth 50m that’s it.
 
Tottenhamguy said:
He isn’t a mediocre player at all, you need to take into account West Ham don’t rotate their squad so he’s probably knackered especially after playing a half in midweek with 10 men.

It’s safe to say Rice has had an important influence in West Ham’s performances in the last couple of years and to an extent England playing so well.

He is worth 50m that’s it.
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This is fair.
 
Tottenhamguy said:
He isn’t a mediocre player at all, you need to take into account West Ham don’t rotate their squad so he’s probably knackered especially after playing a half in midweek with 10 men.

It’s safe to say Rice has had an important influence in West Ham’s performances in the last couple of years and to an extent England playing so well.

He is worth 50m that’s it.
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You are describing Maguire. It is exactly what I mean. He is not a player we should build our midfield on.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I think we’d end up with another Maguire problem if we spent that big on Rice, he’d be an internet meme in no time with tonnes of short clip examples of him in tight spaces.

You’d have everyone laughing at how much Liverpool spent on Fabinho (a far superior player) and Chelsea on Kante, yet we spunked 80m on Rice, it’d make us a laughing stock again for our braindead recruitment policies.

And none of this is to say he wouldn’t be a handy player for any team to have around, he likely would.
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To be fair I think Chelsea and Liverpool fans would still joke that we spent 50 million on Fred
 
Giggsyking said:
Watching him today makes me wonder, how is his club demanding 150m for him? He is a mediocre player. We should learn our Maguire and AWB lessons. If we pay to get him it means this club never learns.
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Yeah can't keep on playing this ridiculous English premium, there are players on the continent who are cheaper and offer more all round.
 
Very good tonight. We won’t get him but I hope we blow our entire budget on him (partly to annoy the people who can’t or won’t see how damn brilliant he is).
 
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