I don't know why I tried to have a discussion with you, when you post a highlights video from youtube as some type of argument what type of player Tchouaméni is and say that people who rate him, are people playing Fifa. Like I told you, if you had watched Monaco's last 2 games, you would have seen Tchouaméni playing a very similar role to Rice for West Ham and being the best player on the pitch. Schneiderlin wasn't overrated. He was excellent for Southampton for 3 years and we rightly went for him. That he wasn't cut out for United and that his career went south, had nothing to do with his nationality and people overrating him based on that, sometimes transfers just go wrong. Putting Pogba in the same category as Bellion, Obertan and Silvestre is also ridiculous. He is far more talented and that it hasn't quite worked out at United is more so our fault and us being crap than Pogba's, even if he isn't without faults of his own. Finally, I don't think this generation of English players is overrated, but quite a few of them have it all to prove, similar to plenty of young French players.
Declan Rice
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I don't know why I tried to have a discussion with you, when you post a highlights video from youtube as some type of argument what type of player Tchouaméni is and say that people who rate him, are people playing Fifa. Like I told you, if you had watched Monaco's last 2 games, you would have seen Tchouaméni playing a very similar role to Rice for West Ham and being the best player on the pitch. Schneiderlin wasn't overrated. He was excellent for Southampton for 3 years and we rightly went for him. That he wasn't cut out for United and that his career went south, had nothing to do with his nationality and people overrating him based on that, sometimes transfers just go wrong. Putting Pogba in the same category as Bellion, Obertan and Silvestre is also ridiculous. He is far more talented and that it hasn't quite worked out at United is more so our fault and us being crap than Pogba's, even if he isn't without faults of his own. Finally, I don't think this generation of English players is overrated, but quite a few of them have it all to prove, similar to plenty of young French players.
He's clearly a very good player. The question is how good. With a 100 mill price tag you would think he would be up there with the best of the best - Kante, Casemero, Kimmich etc. Im struggling to see in him at this level but if he is then we should go and get him no matter the cost. Personally I think he might end up a Maguire. Good but not brilliant and constantly compared to his price tag.
I think he is definitely more talented than Maguire and therefore worth paying a big fee for. The issue is that we most likely need two midfielders this upcoming summer and considering what West Ham will demand, it might not be possible to get those 2 midfielders in, if one of them is Rice. Van de Beek and Pogba could be gone, Matic should be gone, which would leave us with Fred and McTominay, and possibly two young players in Mejbri and Garner, who might not be ready.
I've watched Tchouameni plenty of times - I showed you a YouTube video to show you how he plays, the positions he gets to, the positions his opposition get to and how he attempts a recovery tackle
Tchouameni in the last 2 games has played like Rice -
Is this again Clermont-Foot & through 0-0 draw was Nantes?
2 games he may have played like Rice against such teams - but I don't see how it's comparable to a player who has done it the whole season and after being a major part of reaching an England Euro final aswell.
From 2 games and most probably his games for France next to Pogba - you think he has played like Rice when I see Tchouaméni much more as a defensively capable CM throughout the season.
2 games and he plays like Rice. I just don't see why thats some sort of test, especially against the teams he did it against.
Well I've been on the Rice train since last summer. I'm sure more have hopped on since...he's been having an outstanding season.
Potential world class...Hammers fans would argue he already is.....West Ham's club captain (a leader which we could do more of)...still 22yrs old
buy.
Potential world class...Hammers fans would argue he already is.....West Ham's club captain (a leader which we could do more of)...still 22yrs old
buy.
Agreed.
Also the video the poster uses of Tchouameni making slide tackles is what happens in a team that looks to apply pressure high up the pitch, and when that pressure is by-passed by the opponent, then the most defensive players have to defend counters in 1v1 situations with space in behind to exploit for the opponent.
It's absolutely fine to rate Rice above Tchouameni, but to then belittle French players and their domestic league is a little silly when France have consistently produced great players who have gone on to win the biggest prizes in the game. This is a league that has consistently produced great players for decades and it's absolutely normal for people like myself to take a very keen interest in the league and their talents.
I could be wrong and Tchouameni may not translate his form to the EPL, but for me, he looks the perfect fit as the most defensive minded midfielder next to a ball player in a setup that looks to press high. Marca in Spain are reporting that Real Madrid see Tchouameni as the perfect replacement for Casemiro and you can see why when he completely dominates the opponent both on the ground and in the air like he showed in the last game.
You don't need to show me a youtube video to know how he plays, because I've watched him plenty. The fact that you don't rate him, makes me question whether you have actually seen him. Those 2 games were examples showcasing his skillset and that he isn't just a player Fred. Whether you want to dismiss the quality of the French league is up to you, but just because some players coming out of the Ligue 1 haven't lived up to their early promise, does not mean that Tchouaméni automatically won't as well.
Agree with everything here. Rather Madrid than any of our rivals I'd say.
I have just seen that Aurelien is rated at €40mil and Rice is rated at €75mil but I guarantee you if we go after the French kid then we will be quoted upwards of £60mil and this is where we always get taken for a ride.
Well I'm glad we have a solid alternative for overpriced Rice
Sorry but Schneiderlin was never a good signing, was neverf good enough, was over rated and did nothing much since leaving us either
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Tchouameni will cost around €60m imo.
Better defensively which presumably is where we would want him for
Find the comparisons still going on as ridiculous, why do we still need to produce stats. Rice in terms of reading the game and positioning is a far far better player than McTominay. He is still 23 and has improved every season and is now better going forward. There is no comparison or stats needed on this one. Unless your Scottish or ardent towards your clubs own players, or family name is McTominay, I expect 99% of fans would say Rice is a better player
I would suspect 99% would say Rodri, Kante and Fabinho are all superior to Rice and cost their clubs half the money.
What’s the point spending £100m on a player not even better than what our rivals have?
Not that I am saying he is at or will reach the levels, but both Robson and Keane were British tranfer records and actually not at the level Rice is currently when we signed them.
Yes the fee now will be crazy, but I feel you arent just signing a player here. You are signing one experienced in the premership, English and most importantly a leader and potential captain as well as appearing to havea great attitude.
He is over priced, but for West Ham I can see why they would demand that money and for me he is the right signing, so personally I dont mind what is spent. We have spunked a whole load of money on over rated, aveage players that are not the right fit for what we need the last few years. Whether or not you think Rice is over rated, he isnt average and he is certainly the right fit for us
I suspect you are wrong, Fabinho? Very good ithin that team but get out of here with such drivel, Kante I would certianly agree with...ther rest though 99% noSums up this thread perfectly.
Better defensively which presumably is where we would want him for
These stats look pretty similar to me, even considering the two players had slightly different roles. The presentation of these numbers are done in a way that is very misleading. Both Rice & McTominay had good games yesterday.
Rice as an option only depends on how much he's available for? 40m - absolute steal. 100m - absolute waste. You wouldn't want to pay 40m for McTominay would you though?
You missed the point, based on his performances for Southampton over 3 years he was a player worth signing, that it didn't work out, doesn't change that. Lots of transfers don't work out.
Yeah those stats are basically the same, it’s the green and red lines which are misleading.
I like both of them! Rice has some qualities that Tchouameni dont, but Tchouameni looks a lot quicker and more agile. For a more attacking team than West Ham that will be of value.
The question is who our next coach would prefer! If that coach is ten Hag, Potter or Pochettino I’m leaning towards Tchouameni based on the midfielders they have used so far. They would obviously make good use of Rice as well. But in a well organised team that dominates possession the best qualities of Rice, the positional awareness and reading of the game off the ball, might be off less value.
I also think we have a very underrated talent on our hands with some of the same strenghts and weaknesses as Rice in James Garner. He is not a physically mature as Rice was at the same age, but on the ball I would argue he is more talented.
There's a big difference between 85% pass accuracy and 90% when you're talking about 1000~ passes.
Those stats are for the entire season and their per 90 minute average. So the pass accuracy average is from around 1000 passes.
Don’t know what more Rice could have done yesterday to win over the doubters. ‘There are none so blind as those who refuse to see’
Maybe 40 or so passes and considering Rice makes the majority of his passes 5 yards and sideways there isn’t much between them.
Got that read my other post.
Hes an excellent player. The question would be would he be enough on his own
Eg would
.............. Rice.......
...Fernandes Mctominay
Be good enough. Or Fred for mct whatever you prefer. If so then you could pay a higher fee
Eg would
.............. Rice.......
...Fernandes Mctominay
Be good enough. Or Fred for mct whatever you prefer. If so then you could pay a higher fee
I mean I don't know what to tell you, over the course of a season those stats are like 200 more successful passes. Football is often about fine margins and those small details, winning the ball back a couple more times a game, playing it forward a couple more times, making a couple more interceptions etc. all add up over a season.
We need two midfielders & his price has the British tax applied.
I think he’s a better option than Tchuameni purely because he’s used to the league & wouldn't need to adapt, but similar to Maguire, AWB & Shaw, I have concerns that his price tag will be factored into every match he plays.
Also, he’s not a DM - but if we got him we could play a deep lying playmaker next to him, similar to the Carrick & Fletcher days.
I still prefer Tchuameni unless we can get Rice for a much lower fee.
I think he’s a better option than Tchuameni purely because he’s used to the league & wouldn't need to adapt, but similar to Maguire, AWB & Shaw, I have concerns that his price tag will be factored into every match he plays.
Also, he’s not a DM - but if we got him we could play a deep lying playmaker next to him, similar to the Carrick & Fletcher days.
I still prefer Tchuameni unless we can get Rice for a much lower fee.
He's annoying to play against and you clearly see what he brings to the team. He would be great in our formation but wouldn't be enough to completely transform us. We'd have to buy him and someone more creative which makes spending 100m on him unrealistic.
In an ideal world, him and Bellingham would be great alongside Bruno but that's a 200m investment so we're better off looking for cheaper alternatives. We need a minimum of 2 cms this summer and ideally another striker.
In an ideal world, him and Bellingham would be great alongside Bruno but that's a 200m investment so we're better off looking for cheaper alternatives. We need a minimum of 2 cms this summer and ideally another striker.
They should have more than 1000 passes over a full season, though
Then because we are more than halfway through a season it would be more like 80 more successful passes not 200.
Well you’d need to be taking into consideration the fact Rice has played more than 500 more minutes than McTominay and I’d guess but not sure that would swing a lot of those stats in McTominay’s favour.Rice already has just looking at raw numbers and not per 90
Rice has become a really solid midfielder this season and has clearly outgrown West Ham but it's still a huge ask for him to transform our midfield on his own.
We need a couple of midfielders, and that's problematic for a club who typically make three first-team signings per season. It's all well and good splurging big money on Rice but we're setting him up to fail if we don't sign another who can play a bit next to him.
We need a couple of midfielders, and that's problematic for a club who typically make three first-team signings per season. It's all well and good splurging big money on Rice but we're setting him up to fail if we don't sign another who can play a bit next to him.
Rice already has just looking at raw numbers and not per 90
1222 passes and only 351 of them forwards?
Hopefully yesterday ended this stupid comparison with McTominay.
One hid for 90mins the other stood up like a captain.
One hid for 90mins the other stood up like a captain.
This isn’t correct. This season in the Premier League Rice is in the 82nd percentile for passing distance and the 75th percentile progressive passing distance. If you look at short range, medium range and long range passing he’s in the higher bracket for all those pass types attempted and completed. When it comes to non-creative passing its fair to say that Rice has been an elite passer in the Premier League this season. It’s something he’s significantly improved on this year. Also something that hints he’s a dedicated pro seeking to better himself, which is a good sign in and of itself.
https://fbref.com/en/players/1c7012b8/scout/11160/Declan-Rice-Scouting-Report
Spending 100m on him would signal that we still don't know what we're doing.
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