Fred scored against bums like this every week, but as soon as Rice does it he's the worlds best midfielder 
Declan Rice
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How many times has Rice played against that type of opposition, though? West Ham have only just been in the Europa this season. Prior to that, most of his good performances have come for West Ham in the EPL or for England.
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Again, I'm fine with people showing those performances as why he's worth it. You just get posts like above going ridiculously overboard, even though they're playing against a pile of shite.
I think it is rather moot to discuss his qualities. I mean, he is quality, that is undeniable but I guess, what many, including me btw, find repelling is his pricetag. I mean, there is no debate, that the player isn't responsible for his pricetag and the evaluation of his playing qualities shouldn't take it into consideration. I guess, often when posters don't rate him, they mean, they don't rate him as much as it would justify the financial outlay.
Just have look at Leicester, they unearthed first Kante, then Ndidi, now potentially Soumare - all relative unknowns from France, well scouted who went on to become top players in the League. Now we have no other way than to go big for the proven English man? We don't have to spunk the money on anybody, our english contingent is quite big already. If we are going to pay that kind of money, go for Goretzka, Kimmich - don't know.
Look for somebody like Casemiro who combines everything that is needed in a DM with some extra traits. I don't see that in Rice at all. All I see is a good player, experienced in the league, playing for a hard-2-beat Moyes side that is well drilled defensively and compact in shape. We spent big on Maguire, AWB and Sancho - let somebody else burn that kind of money this time. Rice won't bring the defensively stability with him from Westham to United. It is a team sport, Rice is part of a team, he won't be able to replicate his play with us just plug and play. As a team, we will have to adjust. And if we are willing to adjust, maybe adjust right now and see, if we are maybe better off than we think, so we can spent money a bit more wisely.
Just have look at Leicester, they unearthed first Kante, then Ndidi, now potentially Soumare - all relative unknowns from France, well scouted who went on to become top players in the League. Now we have no other way than to go big for the proven English man? We don't have to spunk the money on anybody, our english contingent is quite big already. If we are going to pay that kind of money, go for Goretzka, Kimmich - don't know.
Look for somebody like Casemiro who combines everything that is needed in a DM with some extra traits. I don't see that in Rice at all. All I see is a good player, experienced in the league, playing for a hard-2-beat Moyes side that is well drilled defensively and compact in shape. We spent big on Maguire, AWB and Sancho - let somebody else burn that kind of money this time. Rice won't bring the defensively stability with him from Westham to United. It is a team sport, Rice is part of a team, he won't be able to replicate his play with us just plug and play. As a team, we will have to adjust. And if we are willing to adjust, maybe adjust right now and see, if we are maybe better off than we think, so we can spent money a bit more wisely.
Darling of the season for Redcafe, just like Sancho for the past 2 season.
How is he the darling when most people seem to rate him and don't want him? The people praising him are in the minority and have been for ages.
I would take Kalvin Philips over him, he's more of what we need. Don't think the Leeds rivalry will matter here, we bought Rio, took Alan Smith on a free and sold them Dan James so it's not beyond possible as some say. He'd be perfect sitting deep and protecting the back four.
It's absolutely amazing how the people who don't rate him seem butt hurt when he is performing every week
Like he can choose who he is playing against.
Literally adding goals and assists to his games on a more regular basis and showing a big middle finger to the Internet guys that don't rate him. Hitting the post yesterday aswell.
Continue to do it.
Like he can choose who he is playing against.
Literally adding goals and assists to his games on a more regular basis and showing a big middle finger to the Internet guys that don't rate him. Hitting the post yesterday aswell.
Continue to do it.
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But but..
The French darling Tchoumeni is better drawing 1-1 with Real Sociedad with the possesion of 36% all game.
Or Ndidi & Leicester losing 1-0 to Legia Warsaw.
These alternatives simply do not bloody perform and when they do its once in a while.
The French darling Tchoumeni is better drawing 1-1 with Real Sociedad with the possesion of 36% all game.
Or Ndidi & Leicester losing 1-0 to Legia Warsaw.
These alternatives simply do not bloody perform and when they do its once in a while.
I mean, you've been all over Rice threads, and most likely you know the reason. People mostly don't want him at 100m or near that. But (if) at 30m, all in here will be in favor.
30m barely gets you 0.6 of a Fred or 1.5 Dalots, don't be ridiculous. By our own standards Rice is worth 150m pounds
30m barely gets you 0.6 of a Fred or 1.5 Dalots, don't be ridiculous. By our own standards Rice is worth 150m pounds
?? Nothing wrong with my statement. I said, at 30m, all in here will be in favor. Don't you think so?
I don't think all will be in favor at 50-60m price. Although i think this is a fair price, some might disagreed.
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Rio- Wasn't born and raised in Leeds so zero affiliation to them
Alan Smith- Leeds were in financial turmoil at the time so they had to sell and he had to leave to get his Boyhood club money
Dan James- Fringe player
Phillips, who is about to sign a new contract if the media is correct is born and raised in Leeds he's to them what Greenwood/Rashford are to us and none of those two would join City/Liverpool. There's even a video of him calling us "scum" round the internet. Getting him is nowhere near as realistic as you think
Yes I agree, I was just trying to spin it and point out how absurd numbers are in reality. Our club as a fact have been overpaying constantly and Rice for 50-60m would be a good price considering what we have paid for worse. In reality we would all want to get him for 25m pounds, but West Ham are no morons, they know what we have paid for worse and will want their money. They might settle for less from another club of course.
Ok forget his price tag. Are you telling me we can’t find anyone in this world that can do what he does or even better?
The only reason you talk about him is because he’s English and plays in the premier league. Literally no one outside of England considers him a great DM prospect considering how average total poor he was at the Euros.
See that’s the problem, the overhyping. Now he’s going to be a 10+ goals scorer and he will be England caption in 3 years time. It’s crazy
his price alone should rule him out
This is what many never take into account, the premium that's added on when we come in. It happens to all the richest clubs and these days the smaller clubs don't need to sell like they used to either.
On his quality, if Roy Keane is saying Rice is way ahead of where he was at this age, surely that's the best recommendation any player is going to get. Roy is hardly generous with his praise.
Rapid Wien or Real Madrid, the movement into the penalty area was great!
Fred scored 7 goals in 4 seasons,that's hardly every week.Fred scored against bums like this every week, but as soon as Rice does it he's the worlds best midfielder
Why do people like these midfielders who go into hiding when things get right in midfield? Him and Scotty McT would probably average 20 passes between them in away games against fellow big 6 clubs.
This debate is getting a bit polarised at times.
You see, I really believe he is the best solution to our CM issues even if he does cost £100m. His ability and character set him above any other realistic target. But that sounds over the top doesn’t it?
So we can have a few more posts saying he’s a donkey, can’t pass, and is only worth what we paid for Fred. Otherwise the universe will be dangerously out of balance.
You see, I really believe he is the best solution to our CM issues even if he does cost £100m. His ability and character set him above any other realistic target. But that sounds over the top doesn’t it?
So we can have a few more posts saying he’s a donkey, can’t pass, and is only worth what we paid for Fred. Otherwise the universe will be dangerously out of balance.
Yeah it’s typical of this place really, it’s black or white.
Truth is somewhere in the middle of the two sides you describe.
Imo I think he’s better than what we have but I also happen to think he’s nothing particularly special.
Most people go over the top in their negative description of him because he is definitely overpriced and to an extent overhyped, although he is still an improvement on what we have.
Would the Brighton lad be a more realistic target?
Yeah. I’m very pro-Rice but I can certainly sympathise with a more measured view such as yours.
Sociedad are 2nd in La Liga and a much better team than Monaco so you would expect them to dominate possession (and frankly a draw is a good result for Monaco). Ndidi didn't even play for Leicester against Warsaw. Ndidi's been consistently among the best midfielders for defensive actions in Europe for most of his Leicester career, whereas Rice has never really excelled in this area. This season is the first one where Rice has started to show some really impressive statistics in any area, as he's always been pretty average before. Rice was also pretty poor against us imo. I'd be happy with any of the 3 and think all of them would be a significant upgrade on our current options. Rice's price is definitely excessive for what he's shown up to this point though.
Rice is x2 steps up from Fred, I cannot understand how people would not swap him for Fred and especially VDB
I don't think many would suggest he's not better than Fred. It's moreso that there are other potential options across Europe that would cost a lot less who would also be significant upgrades on our current midfielders
Skipp is better than him, how much would Levy want?
I agree on the price for sure.
But if United blew £90m on him and got Haaland next season I'd be happy. (plus replace Pogba if he leaves)
So long as we cleared the deadwood.
In hindsight, United should have maybe gone for Son a season ago and then maybe we wouldn't have had the whole Sancho situation and maybe now we would have had a decent CM this summer come in and a great side Premier League ready.
But is it realistic to expect us to spend £90m on him, £75m on Haaland (not counting agent fees) and also money to replace Pogba if he leaves (as he most likely will)? I mean we spent roughly £100m this season and this was considered by all acounts an incredible transfer window. Last season we spent roughly £60m. Based on that, it's hard to believe we would spend £200m+ in a single transfer window.
I get that.
But if we move on VDB, Martial, Jones and maybe one other (Bailey) that would cover Haaland or a CM roughly
Bailey
Not sure how anyone could expect us to pay for both Rice and Haaland next summer if given the opportunity. Haaland is probably the longer shot of the two.
But we should have these two being the stature we are as a club.
No, actually I'm not saying that. I'd hope we could find someone like Rice for a much cheaper price. Traditionally, we have always been good at finding gems every now and again. However, we have to be careful because there's players out there playing in foreign leagues who are nowhere near as good as people make out. With Rice, we'd be purchasing a player who knows the EPL.
I don't think there's any point respoding to your last sentence.
He’s a massive upgrade on what we have and should absolutely be our priority. 75m is the new 35m. Our midfield is completely dysfunctional. With potentially Pogba and Matic leaving in the summer, we’ll need two replacements and they should both be true CMs. Pogba is half a CM half a forward. I love the player but you have to pick one of him and Bruno. I don’t see you can invest so much in wages in a luxury player like PP.
Dream scenario is to get Haaland but we absolutely cannot afford to do so at the expense of not getting a top class number 6.
I like VdB but the manager clearly isn’t convinced. So if we can clear out Martial, Pogba, Matic and VdB in the summer and bring in Rice and Bissouma, integrate Hannibal and Diallo into true first team rotation, I think we’d have a much better squad for it.
We’ll likely need a striker unfortunately as I expect Cavani and Mata to leave too. I don’t know if the budget stretches to Haaland, but if it does we’ll have the wage capacity to handle it.
Dream scenario is to get Haaland but we absolutely cannot afford to do so at the expense of not getting a top class number 6.
I like VdB but the manager clearly isn’t convinced. So if we can clear out Martial, Pogba, Matic and VdB in the summer and bring in Rice and Bissouma, integrate Hannibal and Diallo into true first team rotation, I think we’d have a much better squad for it.
We’ll likely need a striker unfortunately as I expect Cavani and Mata to leave too. I don’t know if the budget stretches to Haaland, but if it does we’ll have the wage capacity to handle it.
Why would that be impossible ? We are taking £150 million give or take - we can off-load players like Martial, Henderson, Dalot and v.d Beek - that should cover at least half of it. Add to that - Cavani, Mata, Matic at least will leave - which should reduce our wages by probably close to £30 million a year.
I’m sure there are plenty better technical footballers for less money. His most valuable attributes are the least obviously visible - character and game intelligence. He’s physically very strong, athletic and improving technically.
I don’t think there are many with all the qualities Rice has. If there’s even one out there, we should buy buy buy. If we can. If not, we should get Rice.
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