Declan Rice

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Adnan said:
Butt is maybe looking at the likes of Garner and Mejbri and taking a holistic view of our midfield options going forward, hence coming to the conclusion the current midfield is fine with more variety to come in the form of Garner and Mejbri.
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Yeah that’s what I took from Butts comments too. The fact that we haven’t really been properly linked to a midfielder also point to this. I’d say our transfer plan is to get Sancho and a CB in and then have a real good look at our younger midfielders in preseason.
Don’t think the importance of this preseason can be underestimated. First proper one in two years. Will also be without the major round the world travel we normally have and with a bit of luck we should have some of our new signings by then(Sancho).
Also I think we have a lot of young talent that will really benefit from a solid preseason with first team. Greenwood, Williams, Gardner , Mejbri etc.
I think once Ole has a look at them during preseason and we have sold some of our deadwood they will decide then weather or not to strengthen in the middle.

Same prob goes for RB. See how Laird and Williams look by the end of preseason before deciding on if we need one and the profile of one if we do.
 
He isn’t worth the price quoted but I absolutely love what he brings to the team.

That shape and freedom for the rest of the team to do as they please. Hardly a clear chance on the pitch when he is about vs when he is off it.
 
Jibbs said:
Both of them are at least 2 seasons away from becoming first team regular. That is if they make the grade.
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They're only as far away as the chances they're given. Mejbri for example would be playing first team football at Dortmund or RB Leipzig IMO.
 
Judas said:
Agree with this about Mejbri, I fully expect him to break into the first team if, and its a big if, he's given the chances.
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He's one season away from being a genuine threat in the first team. But he needs game time in the first team to get to that stage. And if we look at our current options in midfield, he should be given significant minutes.
 
Bebestation said:
He isn’t worth the price quoted but I absolutely love what he brings to the team.

That shape and freedom for the rest of the team to do as they please. Hardly a clear chance on the pitch when he is about vs when he is off it.
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England have been shit offensively for a long time now? Where is this freedom? Wouldn't it help the team if he could contribute with the ball at his feet instead?
 
Mainoldo said:
It was precisely my point. He can’t even play CM for Scotland.
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eh? that’s because they’ve got some decent midfielders and barely any defenders, not that he isn’t good enough.
 
cyberman said:
England have been shit offensively for a long time now? Where is this freedom? Wouldn't it help the team if he could contribute with the ball at his feet instead?
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I think this is the thing that people seem to be missing with Rice. We need someone who provides that base for the team but is also able to get the ball to the forwards so they can make the most of the solid foundation behind.

England are suffering the same as they did in WC 2018. A lack of creativity/ability in the middle of the park to get the ball to their very good front line.
 
youngrell said:
I think this is the thing that people seem to be missing with Rice. We need someone who provides that base for the team but is also able to get the ball to the forwards so they can make the most of the solid foundation behind.
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Aye, couple Rice’s defensive ability and positioning with Carrick, or hell even Matic’s ability to play between the lines and you’ve got a player that should be starting at an elite club.

It was telling just how much better Maguire was at this than either of England’s two DM’s.
 
cyberman said:
England have been shit offensively for a long time now? Where is this freedom? Wouldn't it help the team if he could contribute with the ball at his feet instead?
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Well said. Only in England does it seem to suffice that solely being good defensively constitutes an effective holding midfielder. Such caveman analysis it is unreal.
 
His inability to play a forward pass shows he's not what we need. We already have two CMs not great at playing the ball around. Matic was a much better CDM, it's a shame he doesn't have legs anymore.
 
Really needed to see him out there on his own instead of in a two. If Southgate didn't dare against Czech Republic he's definitely not going to do it in the knockouts.
 
I think he is a fantastic player, and I'd love to see him play for us if the price is right.

His role is to become part of back 3 when in possession, his passing is decent not exceptional, but if you have Maguire, Lindelof, Pog, Shaw around him - I think we do get well covered there. He clearly has the intelligence and positioning ability to do a much better job than either of the 2 DMs we play. Him as a 6 would mean Pog can play alongside him, although he'd still have some defensive duties (which would be the case with literally any other DM that we sign though)
 
one thing for sure is nobody is spending anywhere near £60m + on this guy.

I hoped he’d step up in a better team and change my mind, nope.
 
2cents said:
Think most here are happy to acknowledge his obvious strengths, while having reservations regarding his obvious limitations (especially in the context of his price tag).
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Its exactly this.

To get West Ham to sell Rice its reported that we would have to pay as much as we ever have for any player. In the context of what he offers the team I, and many others, cannot understand why we would be seriously in for him.

Rice is good at the defensive bits of playing as a #6. However, his limitations as a footballer are plain to see. His passing is boring and unadventurous and sometimes puts the receiver in trouble. I'd argue Maguire and Lindelof are better forward passers. That's an issue, especially at the prices quoted.

Does our wobbly backline need protecting better? Yes. It does. We can't commit as many bodies as we'd like to the attack with the limitations in pace and power we have at centre back. However, we have a major issue with our midfielders not being press resistant. Something Leicester brutally exposed in the FA Cup, Liverpool did the same during the run in. Buying Rice will not solve that. Also, buying Rice help us against teams like Villareal who sit in and make us play on to them. As he can't advance the ball quickly, in a Carrick like fashion, his midfield partner e.g., Pogba, would still have to drop deep to get the ball. That gives stubborn opponents more time to regroup and prepare to face attacks, making it harder for us to use transitions or create overloads.

As I've said before, and I'll keep saying, United have never replaced Carrick. And I don't think the English Schneiderlin will get us any closer to doing that. Rice is a good player but not the one we need.
 
Mcking said:
He is a good defender, but a very basic footballer. We play a midfield two, and he is no where near who you would want in a two. We really have to avoid this one.
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2cents said:
Think most here are happy to acknowledge his obvious strengths, while having reservations regarding his obvious limitations (especially in the context of his price tag).
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It's very much like the Wan Bissaka transfer for me. The things Rice does well he obviously excels at, but his limitations are quite apparent. He isn't going to instantly become great at taking the ball on the turn, passing through the lines.

I've said it plenty of times in the thread, if our scouts are worth their salt at all, they should easily be able to find a competent defensive midfielder of a similar level for a much cheaper price. There's not really anything he does specifically well that merits the kerfuffle of signing him. His most significant traits are he's a leader for West Ham at a young age + he's quite injury-free. Nice, but there's more to it than that.

Alternatively, can our scouts find us a much more rounded player -- a new Matic, please. Someone find him from somewhere. He must be out there!
 
Overall stats from 3(2,5) matches so far; 7 progressive passes, 1 pass into the oppositions penalty area, 10 passes into the attacking 1/3. All matches where England have had the majority of posession.
Plays it safe, always and in all ways. My impression of him have so far been confirmed in that he is limited in possession and if you put him into a 4231 with Fred or McT we would not get any better in breaking oppositions down, especially the low-block teams.
 
Bebestation said:
He isn’t worth the price quoted but I absolutely love what he brings to the team.

That shape and freedom for the rest of the team to do as they please. Hardly a clear chance on the pitch when he is about vs when he is off it.
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Wait until England play a good team - he really isn’t what we (United) need. I don’t really understand what he’s supposed to be excellent at?
 
Adam-Utd said:
eh? that’s because they’ve got some decent midfielders and barely any defenders, not that he isn’t good enough.
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Im sorry would England play Gerrard CB because we had decent CM.

Your answering my point. He’s not that good. He’s not even considered Scotland’s main CM. Darren Fletcher would walk into this Scotland Midfield.
 
DWelbz19 said:
It's very much like the Wan Bissaka transfer for me. The things Rice does well he obviously excels at, but his limitations are quite apparent. He isn't going to instantly become great at taking the ball on the turn, passing through the lines.

I've said it plenty of times in the thread, if our scouts are worth their salt at all, they should easily be able to find a competent defensive midfielder of a similar level for a much cheaper price. There's not really anything he does specifically well that merits the kerfuffle of signing him. His most significant traits are he's a leader for West Ham at a young age + he's quite injury-free. Nice, but there's more to it than that.

Alternatively, can our scouts find us a much more rounded player -- a new Matic, please. Someone find him from somewhere. He must be out there!
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Tchouameni from Monaco / Soumare / Carmavinga / Zakaria few alternatives
 
DWelbz19 said:
It's very much like the Wan Bissaka transfer for me. The things Rice does well he obviously excels at, but his limitations are quite apparent. He isn't going to instantly become great at taking the ball on the turn, passing through the lines.

I've said it plenty of times in the thread, if our scouts are worth their salt at all, they should easily be able to find a competent defensive midfielder of a similar level for a much cheaper price. There's not really anything he does specifically well that merits the kerfuffle of signing him. His most significant traits are he's a leader for West Ham at a young age + he's quite injury-free. Nice, but there's more to it than that.

Alternatively, can our scouts find us a much more rounded player -- a new Matic, please. Someone find him from somewhere. He must be out there!
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Can't disagree with this, we need someone better on the ball or someone on the cheap to play a squad role. The fee it would take to get him makes it impossiblew for us to sign him this season anyway.
 
sp_107 said:
Tchouameni from Monaco / Soumare / Carmavinga / Zakaria few alternatives
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Soumare to Leicester is reportedly already a done deal.

Mobile sitting midfielders who are great defensively and who also contribute in build-up play and ball progression as well as offensively are few and far between. Camavinga is an intriguing option, provided you think he can be a regular at a big club at his age. Personally I like Locatelli, although he ticks the offensive and creative boxes in a clearer way than the defensive ones.
 
croadyman said:
Can only see links to any of these kind of players picking up IF Pogba leaves this summer
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There's also the possibility that even if he stays, Pogba will primarily be used forward on the left. We may well need a quality central midfielder then.
 
justsomebloke said:
There's also the possibility that even if he stays, Pogba will primarily be used forward on the left. We may well need a quality central midfielder then.
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Would believe it could happen if there was actually some solid links to some but nothing at all
 
Adnan said:
They're only as far away as the chances they're given. Mejbri for example would be playing first team football at Dortmund or RB Leipzig IMO.
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You have a very high opinion for him. If this is the case he should be sent put on loan this year.
 
Think it needs Chelsea to go for him then Utd will be forced to look elsewhere however he looks the only midfield target
 
croadyman said:
Would believe it could happen if there was actually some solid links to some but nothing at all
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Yeah, you're right. If they're doing that, they've managed to keep it well below the radar. Could also be that DvdB is expected to step into a no 8 role, or that they are simply holding off until there is more clarity over Pogbas contract situation, or that they just see it as a lower priority than getting Sancho and CB done.
 
I am totally convinced that Mejbri can be a superstar for us. “ You can just tell “ I dread us not giving him a chance.
 
To the people who say Phillips is a better CDM - would you feel confident in playing Phillips with Henderson, without Rice vs the Germany’s, France’s and Italys?
 
Bebestation said:
To the people who say Phillips is a better CDM - would you feel confident in playing Phillips with Henderson, without Rice vs the Germany’s, France’s and Italys?
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Henderson is coming back from long injury Lay off so no though I rate Rice highly but Henderson has himself shown higher level of play as the deepest midfielder as well box to box at Club level which Rice is yet to show.

But as for your initial question I think Rice is better player than Phillips in that deeper role so he should get the nod .
 
gajender said:
Henderson is coming back from long injury Lay off so no though I rate Rice highly but Henderson has himself shown higher level of play as the deepest midfielder as well box to box at Club level which Rice is yet to show.

But as for your initial question I think Rice is better player than Phillips in that deeper role so he should get the nod .
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Ive always thought Henderson was best with his energy to play as a pressing midfielder or box to box - not necessarily the deepest CDM.

It’s just something I’ve been wondering- so many people put Rice down this tournament when game after game England don’t really get penetrated that hard whilst he is on the pitch. I’m not saying that he is there blocking everything- but nevertheless nothing really happens against England when he is playing.

He came off yesterday and the fullbacks suddenly didn’t get forward as much and we’re all over the place. The midfielders were deep one moment and high up the pitch next to the point that it was the Czech Republic that looked like they controlled the match in that 2nd half.

Like could we play with that set up against the big national teams? Felt there was no shape or organization to the England team in the second half when he came off.

I see many people think of him as this water carrier - but you look at the threads, no one is really dropping him for the future games when they show how England should be lining up now.

It’s just something I wonder - if he is shit or overrated or if these other players are really better - then maybe England will survive or do better without him.

I’m just not 100% sure about that.
 
Mainoldo said:
Im sorry would England play Gerrard CB because we had decent CM.

Your answering my point. He’s not that good. He’s not even considered Scotland’s main CM. Darren Fletcher would walk into this Scotland Midfield.
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You know better than everyone else. Congrats on the achievement.
 
Mainoldo said:
Im sorry would England play Gerrard CB because we had decent CM.

Your answering my point. He’s not that good. He’s not even considered Scotland’s main CM. Darren Fletcher would walk into this Scotland Midfield.
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Rafa moved Gerrard out wide the season when they won the CL. Moved him to RB during the final.
Scotland have no CBs. Its also why Tierney plays as a CB as well.
 
Raees said:
Well said. Only in England does it seem to suffice that solely being good defensively constitutes an effective holding midfielder. Such caveman analysis it is unreal.
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I'm not defending Rice's offensive abilities but in terms of United lets just say he is the player who can help fully unleash Pogba in a central role then he definitely brings offensive quality to the team although as a defensive player. As for England well they don't have a Pogba to unleash so its a bit of a moot point. Now I'm not saying he is the solution and I would much rather look for a cheaper better ball playing alternative (lets say Touchmeini or Locatelli for example) but I think the idea of Rice is more that he gives more freedom to others than what he provides attacking wise himself. To be honest my biggest plus point on him is him being an extra defender and attacker on set pieces (which is a huge huge problem for us) but obviously that isn't worth the price quoted and he isn't.
 
cyberman said:
Rafa moved Gerrard out wide the season when they won the CL. Moved him to RB during the final.
Scotland have no CBs. Its also why Tierney plays as a CB as well.
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Yesh it’s a great joke for me when I say Gerrard is a crap CM. He couldn’t even play there when it mattered in a Champs League final.

But I’m all seriousness he doesn’t play CM for Scotland because he’s just not that good to warrant playing there. If he was an elite performer he would start there. But to go back to the original argument. Declan Rice would not be filling in at CB for Scotland.
 
Mainoldo said:
Yesh it’s a great joke for me when I say Gerrard is a crap CM. He couldn’t even play there when it mattered in a Champs League final.

But I’m all seriousness he doesn’t play CM for Scotland because he’s just not that good to warrant playing there. If he was an elite performer he would start there. But to go back to the original argument. Declan Rice would not be filling in at CB for Scotland.
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Of course he is. Its ridulous to say he isnt good enough for that Scotland side. He just plays at the back because of his ability to carry the ball out in from a back 3 and his height. Plus the shit options at CB but decent options in mf.im Its like Tierney and Robertson in the same postion, theyre just finding a way of getting all of their top players on the pitch.
Rice is basically a 3rd CB in that England side anyway. Maguire had more passes into the final third last night than Rice had. Its semantics really.
 
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