Mctomminay looks better as a box to box player in my opinion
Declan Rice
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Would be a good replacement for Herrera. I'm all for it.
A United midfielder is going to be scrutinized like crazy, ranging from movement, vision, passing range, work rate, technique, creativity, positioning, etc.
If we watch and analyze every second of all his games and hold him to the same standards we do Pogba et al (because we need more midfielders of that kind of level to compete) then does he emerge as a true transfer target, or simply a flavour of the week? Tbh I don't know. I just don't think the player I saw on Saturday will be able to live up to that.
Maybe he's better in other games, but the game against United wasn't something that made me see a CL/ PL winning starter.
If we watch and analyze every second of all his games and hold him to the same standards we do Pogba et al (because we need more midfielders of that kind of level to compete) then does he emerge as a true transfer target, or simply a flavour of the week? Tbh I don't know. I just don't think the player I saw on Saturday will be able to live up to that.
Maybe he's better in other games, but the game against United wasn't something that made me see a CL/ PL winning starter.
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Yep. That's a minimum of £140m for Sancho
Rice is pure CDM or future CB.
His style reminds me of Masherano. He just cleaned out everything going into his area.
Schwenteneiger (?) was the better footballer. But there's none like him right now. Despite of Masch lack of passing ability, do people remember the Germany-Argentina final, where both were still the best players on the pitch?? You might argue that Masch was also the best player for Argentina on knock out stages. Makelele was such an important player for that great Madrid and Chelsea teams, just being a "limited" footballer.
Schwenteneiger (?) was the better footballer. But there's none like him right now. Despite of Masch lack of passing ability, do people remember the Germany-Argentina final, where both were still the best players on the pitch?? You might argue that Masch was also the best player for Argentina on knock out stages. Makelele was such an important player for that great Madrid and Chelsea teams, just being a "limited" footballer.
When we signed Carrick at 25 years old, many fans felt he wasn't good enough at the time for Utd. Rice has been the man of the match in the eyes of West Ham fans quite a few times this season. Gary Neville was the butt of every Utd joke in his first full season as he was so bad.
Rice is on track to become one of the very best DM's in the league in the coming years. The likes of Casemiro/Makele do/did not do the fancy stuff or make the hollywood passes too often, but finding a top top DM is essential to winning a title and currently we have a DM who is not up to that standard needed.
Rice looks a bigger overall talent IMO.
I wasn't saying that rice is box to box - people were saying that they saw mctomminay doing the same as Rice at CDM & to that I said that I think mctomminay is a better box to box player than a CDM.
Rice to me will become a Libero (not sweeper) - a CB that plays attacking at CDM & drops back from CDM in to CB when defending.
I see de Jong doing this for Netherlands already & he looks class at it even though he is clearly a generational talent.
What I've come to understand that I think people don't get is that Rice is a Matic replacement and not a Mcctominay or Fred replacement. Mcctominay and Fred are more of box to box players that can also play DM.
Matic is our only DM right now and if we were to sign Rice then Mcctominay and Fred will be our CM options that will be available to play the DM role when needed
Signing Rice though will absolutely create the need for another creator in the team. And this shouldn't be a problem as there will be several options around this summer.
We could get Neves and both of them play a double pivot in a 4-2-3-1 formation with Pogba in the number 10 role. Get Ndombele and play a 4-3-3 of Rice Ndombele and Pogba. Or get Bruno Fernandes and play a 4-4-2 diamond with Bruno in the number 10 role and Pogba Rice and Mcctominay at his back
Whichever of the above happens Rice will be vital in everything as he will give Pogba and the extra midfielder we get more freedom
Matic is our only DM right now and if we were to sign Rice then Mcctominay and Fred will be our CM options that will be available to play the DM role when needed
Signing Rice though will absolutely create the need for another creator in the team. And this shouldn't be a problem as there will be several options around this summer.
We could get Neves and both of them play a double pivot in a 4-2-3-1 formation with Pogba in the number 10 role. Get Ndombele and play a 4-3-3 of Rice Ndombele and Pogba. Or get Bruno Fernandes and play a 4-4-2 diamond with Bruno in the number 10 role and Pogba Rice and Mcctominay at his back
Whichever of the above happens Rice will be vital in everything as he will give Pogba and the extra midfielder we get more freedom
Oh boy!
https://en.as.com/en/2019/04/14/football/1555260233_242693.html
Real Madrid are interested in signing Declan Rice according to former West Ham defender, Scott Minto. The 20-year-old midfielder signed a new deal at the club recently that would keep him there until 2024 but as his star continues to rise, speculation surrounding his future continues.
Speaking to Stadium Astro after the Manchester United game on Saturday, Minto said "I’m hearing that even Real Madrid are knocking on the door and speaking to his family and I’m not going to tell you [who], it’s a reliable source."
Minto played with West Ham at the start of the century and turned to broadcasting after hanging up his boots. He used to cover Sky Sports' flaghsip LaLiga programme before they lost the rights to Spanish football.
Rice has been linked with Manchester United and a host of other clubs since emerging as one of the best holding midfielders in the Premier League. Real Madrid are planning an overhaul this summer and landing Rice would be a coup considering his recent form, age and projected development.
https://en.as.com/en/2019/04/14/football/1555260233_242693.html
Real Madrid are interested in signing Declan Rice according to former West Ham defender, Scott Minto. The 20-year-old midfielder signed a new deal at the club recently that would keep him there until 2024 but as his star continues to rise, speculation surrounding his future continues.
Speaking to Stadium Astro after the Manchester United game on Saturday, Minto said "I’m hearing that even Real Madrid are knocking on the door and speaking to his family and I’m not going to tell you [who], it’s a reliable source."
Minto played with West Ham at the start of the century and turned to broadcasting after hanging up his boots. He used to cover Sky Sports' flaghsip LaLiga programme before they lost the rights to Spanish football.
Rice has been linked with Manchester United and a host of other clubs since emerging as one of the best holding midfielders in the Premier League. Real Madrid are planning an overhaul this summer and landing Rice would be a coup considering his recent form, age and projected development.
Rather focus transfer budget funds on real quality and potential. We lack too much going forward and at the back to be spunking upwards of £50m on this lad. He’s not even remotely there yet and probably never will be.
Doubt they need him with casemiro to be honest.
How is on the ball compared to the Casemiro?
I feel Madrid got away with playing Casemiro because they had such incredible playmaking quality in their midfield in Kroos, Modric, Isco and, sometimes, James. We have nowhere near that sort of playmaking ability and hence need someone better on the ball IMO.
All those players you mentioned had help in the form of world class teammates & managers, and would have been massively exposed without it (except maybe Carrick). Our team cannot currently provide such help, so the players we go for right now ideally are supposed to be the world class players who provide the help for the backup/ prospect level players.
If Rice were to come here now, I don't think he'll develop very well due to that lack of world class talent around him to protect him; and imo that goes for any prospect level player we're trying to sign. There are quite a few many examples of this already: Zaha, Memphis, Martial (who seems to have stalled in his overall game, instead of kicking on), etc. Until we get true world class players, I don't think many prospects will do too well. Only those with rock solid mentalities will be able to succeed.
I think you have this the wrong way round, all those players provided the ptotection and possession that allowed world class players to shine.
Most probably Rice's agent just putting rumours out there to create some sense of urgency and hype up his client.
I don't really know much about Rice. It's based on our last game, and opinion of people here who've been watching him more.
I'm not against us getting a midfield controller. It's just I think our midfield is too soft. Every decent midfield can cut us like tofu.
Also, I don't think we'll be capable on getting toe to toe with other best teams midfield, if we want to go with controlling midfield route. Liverpool has shown us that you don't have to compete in midfield playmaking to win games. I think it's a lot easier to go with Liverpool's route, than for example, City's route.
Plus its helped their defense, which was our concern in the first half of this season when we were conceding far too many goals. Then we settled on the Ander - Matic partnership in front of defense, Lindelof found some form, Smalling got his first run of games for the season etc and we started to be more stable.
The more work done chasing the ball in midfield and reducing our opponents ease of getting the ball into their front players, the less work the defense and keeper have to do.
At the weekend we clearly tried to play a more offense based midfield with just 1 defensive minded player sitting and lots of players in central attacking areas - Pogba, Mata, Lingard
We ended up with 10% less of the ball and a lot of defending to do because Fred had an overwhelming workload. In that situation someone like Rice would have probably helped us. That said on the day Rice had Noble to his right a bit like the Ander role giving him a bit of help.
4 attackers in front, Noble holding a bit behind helping Rice a little who was the main deep midfielder protecting the defense.
So even someone that defensive minded might have needed a little more help than Fred was given.
Yeah, shut up Scott Minto. DHOTY award right there.
Yeah you're right that it goes both ways, they were all symbiotic partnerships. I just think that with the level of our team currently, the player for that position needs to be more than that. More like a Carrick, Busquets, or Verratti than a Casemiro, simply because we don't have the players to accommodate the more limited player types.
True, players like him definitely are useful in league winning teams, but we're not that level yet, which is why I don't think he'll flourish were he to come here right now.
I haven't watched Rice enough to comment really but from the little I've seen he looks like an excellent prospect for defensive midfield, he seems to play the simple pass rather than being unable to play the hollywood balls, which is a positive for me.
I would rather give Garner a chance than buy him for 50-60 million. Giving Garner minutes in some of our recent games gives me hope that we will not repeat mistakes.
Anyone remember Schneiderlin?
Anyone remember Schneiderlin?
You mean the established player who was in his mid 20s when we bought him? What are you suggesting? That we dont buy any more French players?
Hate the flawed logic that one transfer failed so we shouldn't try another one. Let's just not buy players at all.
Suggesting that I would rather promote our Academy players than buying unproven players. He was not established sorry to say, just a couple of performances and praises from Gary Neville, that is all he had. I don't remember one stand out performance by him in United shirt.
?
We bought him from Southampton for £25 million, aged 25 where he was regarded their best or one of their best players. He was also playing in midfield for France, 15 caps now all together. So yes he was established when we bought him
Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Mkhitaryan, Depaay, Fellaini, Kagawa, and so on, my point is why not promote one of academy's lad instead of experimenting again.
Because promoting a youngster before they have experience playing against men is experimenting. Signing someone who has already shown they can do what the job is, thats not experimenting
Buying from outside again and again (especially when it is not working) is also experimenting. Expensive and dangerous experimenting as their failure not only costs the club but destroys the atmosphere.
Then how did Liverpool assemble their team if its such a toxic atmosphere to buy players
?They were not failures like ours.Then how did Liverpool assemble their team if its such a toxic atmosphere to buy players
So basically, do it right
No my point is when one experiment is failing continuously, why not try the other for once.
Declan is. Just a flavour of the month player. Next it'll be another player we've never heard of.
Real want Rice? Sounds legit
feck me!
Now post a list of academy players who never made it.
I bet I know which list is longer.
Hes effective. Hes not some fancy name galatico. I think we need to change our mindset. Pogba spent more energy hugging the everton lad in the tunnel than he did in the game.
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