Declan Rice
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Fred and McTominay can both make it as hard-working central midfielders, but as a defensive midfielder, they are not close to Rice.
No. His ground coverage is minimal compared to Kante. If anything, he’s going to get thicker, not quicker.
Not even close to Doucoure, Sissoko, Fernandinho, Henderson, Torreira, Guendouzi as a DM.
Reasons he’s not good enough as a DM and eventually be moved back to CB:
1. He’s not quick enough
2. His off ball movement is poor. He doesn’t open passing options for teammates.
3. His range of passing is limited compared to top DMs. Watch the players above. Watch Witsel on Dortmund, watch Veratti.
4. Touch is not great, and in that position, you need perfect touch (ask Fred).
I watched him specifically for long periods. He does have good anticipation and he is good at winning 50-50 balls and tackling.
I’m not saying he’s a failure, or won’t become a good CB, I’m saying he will never be a top DM. At knockout stages of CL, winning the PL, just don’t think he’s good enough.
He’s only 20, and he will improve, but he’s a CB with that skill set.
Fred has shown some promising stuff recently in that holding midfielder or deeper midfielder position. If he can keep up the good performance until end of season, we can let this transfer pass for this summer and focus on other area.
Good off the ball. I have my doubts on it though. We need much more than only simple things on it in that position
Yeah I think Rice and a creative CM would certainly be an upgrade on what we currently have there
Saul would be big money which would mean we couldn't get Koulibaly & Sancho too
If Rice definitely won't be as good as these players in a few years when he catches up with them in age, then how come you weren't on here 3 years ago constantly banging on about Torreira, the new midfield sensation at Sampdoria that we should sign, when Torreira was 20 years old like Rice?
The DM position is moving away from thumpers like Rice and more towards quick, skilled players who cover a lot of ground and are brave tacklers. I’m pretty sure Rice is not going to get quicker.
This is a thread on Declan Rice and how the forum rates him. I gave four reasons why I don’t see him becoming a top DM. I’m not sure lack of comments on Torreira four years ago is even relevant.
I could be wrong, but that’s my opinion. He’ll be a CB within 2-3 years.
Remember when Schneiderlin played a blinder against us...?
I'm quite impressed by Rice but it'll be a gamble if We go for him a.k.a I hope He's not the only one We'll go for if both Herrera and Matic won't be here next season.
I'm quite impressed by Rice but it'll be a gamble if We go for him a.k.a I hope He's not the only one We'll go for if both Herrera and Matic won't be here next season.
So who are the top clubs? Surely Liverpool are one. They're top of the league
Premier league
Liverpool
Milner :
12 games in CM, from those he averages 2.5 tackles per 90, 1.5 interceptions
and 1.2 clearances per 90 mins. 66.7 total passes, 1.9 key passes, 2.7 aerials per 90,
and 2 goals so far this season. Clearly a hard worker.
Fabinho :
17 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.5 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions
and 1 clearance per 90 mins. 67.5 total passes, 0.9 key passes, 2.2 aerials per 90,
and 0 goals so far this season. A decently hard worker.
Wijnaldum :
28 games in CM/DM, actually doesn't do a lot defensively. Has contributed more
in attack, running and on the ball. Not sure he does enough to be considered a
hard worker.
Henderson :
15 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.1 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions
and 0.5 clearances per 90 mins. 81.3 total passes, 0.4 key passes, 1.8 aerials, and
0 goals so far this season. Another decently hard worker.
Keita :
9 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.3 tackles per 90, 0.8 interceptions
and 0.2 clearances per 90 mins. 70.6 total passes, 0.6 key passes, 1.4 successful dribbles,
1.4 aerials and 1 goal so far this season. A third decently hard worker.
United
Pogba :
24 games in CM/DM, 1.5 tackles per 90, 0.4 interceptions and 1.2 clearances per 90.
60.5 total passes, 1.5 key passes, 1.8 successful dribbles, 3.8 aerials and
9 goals from the CM/DM position.
7 of the 9 goals were penalties, 1 from open play and 1 from a set piece.
I'd say at best he's in the same category as Wijnaldum, not doing much defensively but
good output going forward. Just not enough to be considered a hard worker.
Ander :
14 games in CM/DM, 3.6 tackles per 90, 2.7 interceptions and 1.4 clearances per 90.
62.8 total passes, 1 key pass, 1.1 aerials per 90 mins. 2 goals so far this season.
Clearly a very hard worker
Fred :
11 games in CM/DM, 2.7 tackles per 90, 1.5 interceptions and 0.8 clearances per 90.
64.8 total passes, 1.1 key passes, 1.5 aerials per 90 mins. 1 goal so far this season.
Clearly a hard worker
McTominay :
5 games in CM/DM, 1.3 tackles per 90, 1.6 interceptions and 2.2 clearances per 90.
43.6 total passes, 0.0 key passes, 7.3 aerials per 90 mins. 1 goal so far this season.
Not that hard a worker in his premier league minutes so far this season.
Obviously he's had some good games against good teams in Europe so we know he can do
a bit better than he has done in the league so far. But those are just a handful of
games too so we dont know if hes going to be like his league performances, or those
big game performances if he's playing on a weekly basis.
Matic :
24 games in CM/DM, 1.8 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions and 2 clearances per 90.
67.4 total passes, 0.5 key passes, 3.4 aerials per 90 mins. He has 1 goal so far
this season.
Not a very hard worker. Generally he's been a harder worker when we have the ball
but this season he doesn't even excel in that area. He's only had a month or two
of form the entire season. So certainly not a hard working player.
So Liverpool who are top of the league currently have 1 hard worker,
3 decently hard workers and then Wijnaldum perhaps a bit less hard working
overall.
United who are 5th in the league currently have 1 very hard worker, 1 hard worker,
2 not very hard workers and McTominay who hasnt been that hard working in the league
but has looked decently hard working in Europe.
Seemingly the very hard worker is leaving the club in the summer for PSG,
at that point we'll just have 1 hard worker, if we're lucky 1 decently hard worker if
McTominay can play like he does in the europe each week and 2 not very hard workers.
So obviously we need one of the more hard working players around to replace Ander.
It doesnt have to be an extreme hard working player like he is, if Fred is also playing.
But Fred will need help.
Rice was one of the quickest players in midfield today. Fred and Pogba maybe a bit quicker
You have chosen the worst example. Liverpool is the only top team with a midfield like that.
And they can play like that because the system of Klopp hide their weakness and when you have players like Firminho ( Benzema 2.0) or defenders like Van Dijk and TAA, it's help a lot too.
We are closer to a Pulis side than a Klopp side ffs.
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So the top team in the league right now is the worst example. Brilliant
Who should we model ourselves on then? The teams behind them?
The reigning champions maybe?
A team that's won 4 out of the last 5 CLs would be nice..
So the team thats past it and struggling?
Their front three has the quality to produce something out of nothing is how they hide it. We have very good midfielders and our attackers find ways to produce nothing out of something.
Not true. How many of those are even DMs?
I like him. Get him.
Yeah, noticed this yesterday too. Especially in the first half, he looked surprisingly unsure where to move when in possession.
He had a great game though. High energy, won the ball a lot, at times very high up the pitch. Mostly luck that it didn't result in a goal. Tidy player.
Very impressive performance. Madrid started winning the CL since they had midfield balance with Casemiro as DM. And maybe we should be back on having British core in midfield, too.
I agree. We need to get a proper British core back in the spine of the team and Rice appears to be made of the right stuff. We need to ensure that Matic is a bench player at most next season.
Maybe it's just us with romanticism of the good ol' days.
It doesn't mean that we shouldn't sign non-British players, as we shouldn't limit the talent pool. I'd still love to have the like of KdB, Eriksen, and Kante too.
Thank God he's no longer Irish then!!
Good player, but I'd give him another year at West Ham, lots of players struggle after their break out season.
You generally don't get the British gems being linked away to other big clubs whereas there's always a feeling that continental Europeans etc always have one eye on the likes of Barca and Real. That's just my feeling.
Sorry, I should have said British and Irish
United have had some fabulous Irish players over the years and they are a big part of the fabric of the club.
Well with the lack of quality among british midfielders you won't get anywhere. I thought Rice was good yesterday, and maybe he could be a starter someday if he join United. But we will need to have world class midefielders along him if we want to compete.
I like him but I'm not sure he should be a priority. I think Fred is doing well as DM and we still have McT and Matic. McTominay is a United product and british, so I don't know why we would need Rice.
I think if we choose to sign only 3 players (CB, RB, RW) instead of 4 we can have more money to sign top players.
Toby would be a better signing than Koulibaly and we’ve a better chance of signing Messi than Sancho leaving Dortmund in the summer.
There’s enough on here to compete with Martial FC
I think this lad will one of those players that in future like Kante that people say, why didn't we buy him cause he only cost X amount. There's a crop of English talent coming through that if we can get them, we'll have something that can compete in a few years to come. I hope Ed stops chasing the big names, and looks what's in front of him in the league.
I wouldn’t be unhappy signing him, at 20 there’s enough potential there for carrick to work with
Unless we’re prepared to shell out for a ‘sure thing’ like veratti, every player is going to be a gamble
Unless we’re prepared to shell out for a ‘sure thing’ like veratti, every player is going to be a gamble
Sorry, I should have said British and Irish
United have had some fabulous Irish players over the years and they are a big part of the fabric of the club.
By which point if he doesn't struggle he'll be twice the price.
We should be buying this lad, 100%
I would say Madrid looked more impressive with a 3-man midfield of Alonso, Modric and di Maria than that of Casemiro, Modric and Kroos. A shame that Alonso wanted to leave as soon he won the CL at Madrid because he wanted to leave on high hence the reason why Madrid had to sign Kroos but unfortunately, Kroos isn't a no 6 like Alonso but a no 8/10 regardless of his similar slow stride to Alonso hence Madrid had to change their midfield set-up and bring in Casemiro to accommodate the two no 8 they have in Modric and Kroos however, I would say they weren't that impressive. They have just been lucky so far because I could remember how many times they were dominated by Barca's midfield and even in the CL, I recall Bayern dominating them in the midfield as well as missing countless of chances until Ronaldo eventually came to the rescue. Likewise against Barca in the league matches. The only time their midfield looked fantastic against Barca was when Kovacic was deployed in the no 6 role.
I could also recall Pjanic dominating their midfield also. Of course, Modric and Kroos have been good but it's no use when they often have to drop deep to get the ball due to the inability of Casemiro to progress the play to them upfield where they can constantly cause havoc. With the plethora of talents Madrid had in midfield, they were often forced to sit back and counter against Barca/Bayern while hoping that Ronaldo from his combination with Marcelo would eventually get something out of the match. That's not the way I want us to operate. Besides, we don't have a player like Ronaldo nor a prime Marcelo here.
I would like us to have a defensively solid playmaking no 6 in the holding midfield role with MCTominay and Fred/Pogba in front of him, similar to Juventus' 3-man midfield of Pirlo in the holding midfield role with Marchiso/Pogba and Vidal in front of him. That midfield despite Pirlo's age matched Barca/Spain midfield in the CL final and in the Euro but unfortunately, neither Italy nor Juve had the talents in the attacking area to hurt Barca or Spain. Besides, I recall Tevez missing lot of chances he should have put in, in the final. Only if Tevez was clinical, the story could have changed.
Likewise the German's 3-man of schweisteiger Kroos and Khedira during their 2014 world cup campaign despite the lack of quality forwards in the team (they had to resort to playing a no 10 like Gotze as a foward and Muller who was off form) yet the Germans won the campaign due to their midfield domination. A shame that schweisteiger retired after the world cup and they have yet to find someone to replace him so far.
My point is I don't want a player in the mould of Declan Rice in the holding midfield role for us. Besides, MCTominay didn't look out of place playing that same role against Liverpool and Crystal palace, if at all we would require a much more defensively astute player in such role in some games.
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I agree with this. I have watched him alot too. Made a thread about him a while back. I think he could work as a DM, but its not where he has the biggest potential. At least not for a top 6-club that wants to control the games with the ball. (But I do not agree that he is not quick.)
His passing is not great for a midfielder, but as a central defender, with a bit more time and space, he would be a brilliant passer.
Rice has decent stats for a 20 year old, but he's a bit of an ugly bugger.
Kevin Bridges?
He's committed only 19 fouls so far playing over 4,000 minutes. Surprising and one of Carrick's many strengths was tackling and making interceptions whilst committing very few fouls.
Wouldn't stand no chance against Anti-Martial FC though.
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