Declan Rice

[VP89]

I'm still wary on Rice, not sure what is so great about him. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[theklr]

Is Rice genuinely an upgrade to Fred and McTominay? And at least a 70M upgrade?

He is different than both of them, so it is not a upgrade per se

 

[Idxomer]

I'm still wary on Rice, not sure what is so great about him. Hope I'm wrong though.

I was watching him the other day and there was a simple pass between the lines to Lingard and he didn't even try to play it.

That really put me off him again. It's the kind of pass Carrick used to make with his eyes closed, this is the standard we should be aiming for.

 

[croadyman]

I was watching him the other day and there was a simple pass between the lines to Lingard and he didn't even try to play it.

That really put me off him again. It's the kind of pass Carrick used to make with his eyes closed, this is the standard we should be aiming for.

Could working with Carrick help improve that side of his game or should we looking elsewhere

 

[VP89]

I was watching him the other day and there was a simple pass between the lines to Lingard and he didn't even try to play it.

That really put me off him again. It's the kind of pass Carrick used to make with his eyes closed, this is the standard we should be aiming for.

Yeah, he's one of those players whose certainly good but I'm not seeing what he's going to offer over what we have.

 

[Champagne Football]

Rice is a good honest solid DM, who will never give less than 100% every game.
He's a leader and he would bring character to any PL dressing room.

Only this is that if he was from Bulgaria or Romania and his name was Riceovic, then his price would be 30 million. We'd be paying 70 million more than his true price if we bought him.

 

[Adisa]

Could working with Carrick help improve that side of his game or should we looking elsewhere

To me, there are things you just have or you don't.
I don't think we should compromise on quality. Whoever are DM of choosing is should be someone that is creative. I don't think Rice is that player.

 

[croadyman]

To me, there are things you just have or you don't.
I don't think we should compromise on quality. Whoever are DM of choosing is should be someone that is creative. I don't think Rice is that player.

Yeah I don't feel he is that DM with the forward passing we need either but surely if there was other names in the frame like we have seen at CB with Varane/Kounde/Torres then would have heard something about it by now

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah, he's one of those players whose certainly good but I'm not seeing what he's going to offer over what we have.

I’ve watched and posted about him a few times. Again my step son says he’s the best young player to come through for years and he’s a regular match goer.
His strengths are his dynamism and ability to break up play while taking responsibility to go on an attack through the middle. He’s not short on confidence.
Weakness: young and impetuous. Leaves holes at the back when he does charge forward. Good technique but nothing outstanding. Bissouma offers more but is less dynamic but more disciplined.
In a team like Utd with greater talent around, him bursting forward especially when we’re trying to break down a team that’s sitting back will reap dividends. Negative: he doesn’t always look to find a killer pass between the lines. It’s not his strength. Positive: he’s a beast to get past when sitting in front of the back 4.

It will depend on what role you’d like him to perform. Wouldn’t need a double pivot with him, he’s a lot stronger than McFred

 

[DWelbz19]

I'm still wary on Rice, not sure what is so great about him. Hope I'm wrong though.

Honestly, same. Unless the plan is to play Rice as a proper holding midfielder in the no.6 role with two midfielders ahead of him — which there are no signs or indications of us ever doing — this signing makes zero sense to me.

Having a midfield duo of Rice + Fred/McTominay might improve us a bit defensively, but there’s absolutely no improvement in goals or assists from the two (far fewer if he replaces McTominay), very little improvement on ball carries in the final third, but most importantly, very little improvement on passing and dictating the tempo of the game.

I want us to have a central midfield that lets us take games to big teams, man. Is that so much to ask for?

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Rice isn't like Carrick at all. I assume we'd be after him so we can play Pogba and Bruno ahead of him without compromising the defence as much.

 

[Bebestation]

I don’t understand the people who are trying to compare Carrick to Rice - they are two different players.

Carrick wasn’t making CL trophy winning performances until Hargreaves popped up next to him.

Pirlo won’t be playing next to Pogba and Bruno Fernandes - he needs Gattuso.

Xavi won’t be playing next to Pogba and Bruno either and needs Busquets.

De Bruyne and Silva won’t last in partnership with Carrick in comparison to Fernandinho.

Rice is being bought to be a ball winning CDM.

Our replacement like for like for Carrick should be a replacement or competition for Pogba.

 

[Pexbo]

I don’t understand the people who are trying to compare Carrick to Rice - they are two different players.

Carrick wasn’t making CL trophy winning performances until Hargreaves popped up next to him.

Pirlo won’t be playing next to Pogba and Bruno Fernandes - he needs Gattuso.

Xavi won’t be playing next to Pogba and Bruno either and needs Busquets.

De Bruyne and Silva won’t last in partnership with Carrick in comparison to Fernandinho.

Rice is being bought to be a ball winning CDM.

Our replacement like for like for Carrick should be a replacement or competition for Pogba.

Carrick is much more comparable to Busquets than Xavi. Carrick was excellent at shielding the defence and read the game beautifully. Hargreaves played at most 15 or 20 games in midfield next to Carrick in a 7 year period we won the league 5 times and a four year period where we reached the Champions League final 3 times and went out in the semi finals once.

 

[OrcaFat]

I don’t understand the people who are trying to compare Carrick to Rice - they are two different players.

Carrick wasn’t making CL trophy winning performances until Hargreaves popped up next to him.

Pirlo won’t be playing next to Pogba and Bruno Fernandes - he needs Gattuso.

Xavi won’t be playing next to Pogba and Bruno either and needs Busquets.

De Bruyne and Silva won’t last in partnership with Carrick in comparison to Fernandinho.

Rice is being bought to be a ball winning CDM.

Our replacement like for like for Carrick should be a replacement or competition for Pogba.

For quite a while Carrick played in a midfield 2 with either scholes or Giggs. He was not the same sort of player as Pogba. I mean not at all. He was a very good passer, yes, but positional discipline, timing and reading of the game from a defensive point of view were his main strengths.

He was not like Rice either but, in terms of his role, he was more similar to Rice than to Pogba.

 

[Adcuth]

You are right.

Pogba- Bruno
-----Rice------

DvdB- Bruno
------Rice-----

Bruno---McT
-----Rice----

------Bruno---
Fred----Rice

Sell Fred and buy Kessie. Options would improve

 

[Bebestation]

For quite a while Carrick played in a midfield 2 with either scholes or Giggs. He was not the same sort of player as Pogba. I mean not at all. He was a very good passer, yes, but positional discipline, timing and reading of the game from a defensive point of view were his main strengths.

He was not like Rice either but, in terms of his role, he was more similar to Rice than to Pogba.

Carrick is much more comparable to Busquets than Xavi. Carrick was excellent at shielding the defence and read the game beautifully. Hargreaves played at most 15 or 20 games in midfield next to Carrick in a 7 year period we won the league 5 times and a four year period where we reached the Champions League final 3 times and went out in the semi finals once.

For Me Carrick’s most similar player is Xabi Alonso.

He is a CDM but he is a deep lying playmaker rather than a CDM ball winner that gives the team an element of central stability.

I don’t think Carrick is similar to Busquets (though I understand he has a better pass than Rice) - I just don’t see how Carrick, Xavi and Iniesta would be as anywhere near as consistent and defensively stable with a player like Carrick over Busquets.

It’s why even if Spain used Xavi, Iniesta & Xabi Alonso- they would routinely end up using players like Senna and Busquets aswell to provide that stability.

For me a Carrick type player doesn’t add a pure stability like a player like Rice does - what they do is add an element of tempo, creativity and intelligence to the Deeper areas of the pitch.

I can see why people crave that when we have McFred as our current partnership - but I won’t put down the importance of replacing Matic’s role in the squad for an element of defensive stability than deep lying creativity.

 

[Tallis]

Is Rice genuinely an upgrade to Fred and McTominay? And at least a 70M upgrade?

Not based on what I have seen from Rice, Fred and McT. But the Hype for Rice is so overwhelming that I am starting to question myself.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If we're buying Rice to use him in a double pivot next to Fred or McTominay, we're going nowhere next season.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I remember Carricks interception stats being out of this world, excellent reader of the game and passer. Miss him a lot.

 

[Drainy]

If we're buying Rice to use him in a double pivot next to Fred or McTominay, we're going nowhere next season.

Depends.

If we only sign Rice then that's a reasonable view, but if we also sign a good centre back and an experienced creative right winger then its a great summer and we are looking good.

Rice is a very solid upgrade on Fred as a defensive midfielder and would allow McTominay to push up into the opposition's area where he is a goal threat. If he were to play with Fred it would free him to harry and press, while we pick off the interceptions, which is Fred's only real plus point, in my view.

We're very weak to the counter and at set pieces, Rice would be a good addition to organising against both, as well as being strong in the air so a naturally better player for defending set pieces than Pogba or Fred.

 

[roonster09]

I remember Carricks interception stats being out of this world, excellent reader of the game and passer. Miss him a lot.

He was also very good tackler, he didn't get much credit for that as he was very calm and composed player on the pitch.

	Tackles Attempted	Tackles Won	Interceptions
2009-10	2.9​	2.3​	2​
2010-11	3.2​	2.2​	2.6​
2011-12	3.8​	3​	2.5​
2012-13	3.4​	2.3​	2.2​
2013-14	2.9​	2.1​	3​
Career Average - PL+CL+Europa
	3.4​	2.4​	2.5​

 

[Adam-Utd]

Not based on what I have seen from Rice, Fred and McT. But the Hype for Rice is so overwhelming that I am starting to question myself.

trust your gut, there’s been plenty of hype over english players before.

I think his style just appeals to people who who grew up with old school football. he’s a throw back type who’s strong in the tackle but that’s about where it ends.

he’s not a great passer, he doesn’t score regularly, he’s fairly athletic but nothing special in that regard.

he’s essentially a strong tackling midfielder, but is that enough for united?

in a counter attacking side like west ham where he sits deep infront of the back 4 he does a good job, but he’ll be required to push forward and be on the ball a lot more often. we’ve already seen how people say fred and mctominay aren’t good enough, i’m not convinced he’s going to be better .

 

[Pexbo]

For Me Carrick’s most similar player is Xabi Alonso.

He is a CDM but he is a deep lying playmaker rather than a CDM ball winner that gives the team an element of central stability.

I don’t think Carrick is similar to Busquets (though I understand he has a better pass than Rice) - I just don’t see how Carrick, Xavi and Iniesta would be as anywhere near as consistent and defensively stable with a player like Carrick over Busquets.

It’s why even if Spain used Xavi, Iniesta & Xabi Alonso- they would routinely end up using players like Senna and Busquets aswell to provide that stability.

For me a Carrick type player doesn’t add a pure stability like a player like Rice does - what they do is add an element of tempo, creativity and intelligence to the Deeper areas of the pitch.

I can see why people crave that when we have McFred as our current partnership - but I won’t put down the importance of replacing Matic’s role in the squad for an element of defensive stability than deep lying creativity.

They’re not comparable in terms of playing styles, I agree with that but you’re reducing Carrick’s game down to his ability on the ball which is completely wrong. The best way to explain his defensive work is using Vidic and Ferdinand as comparisons. You have players like Vidic who impose themselves on the game, they’re aggressive and like go in to every challenge with 110% commitment. Then you have players like Ferdinand who play the game in their head. Half the danger is countered by their positioning and they are cool and calm enough in most situations to hold off in a tackle and pacify the player into dead positions. They block angles, they wait for their moment and toe the ball away.

That’s how Carrick played as a defensive midfielder and for 90% of the time it was more than good enough. Criticisms came for Carrick when his style wasn’t right for the match and it exposed his weaknesses. When we needed a Keane to go into battle for us. That’s not a reflection of Carrick’s lack of quality as a defensive midfielder, it’s paper, scissors, stone. There’s matches in the late 90s/early 00s when we actually needed a Carrick rather than a Keane.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Depends.

If we only sign Rice then that's a reasonable view, but if we also sign a good centre back and an experienced creative right winger then its a great summer and we are looking good.

Rice is a very solid upgrade on Fred as a defensive midfielder and would allow McTominay to push up into the opposition's area where he is a goal threat. If he were to play with Fred it would free him to harry and press, while we pick off the interceptions, which is Fred's only real plus point, in my view.

We're very weak to the counter and at set pieces, Rice would be a good addition to organising against both, as well as being strong in the air so a naturally better player for defending set pieces than Pogba or Fred.

I'm just not a fan of Rice of at all from the few times I watched. I don't think he passes between the lines well enough nor do I think he's a good ball carrier from deep.

I would hope Ole targeting him means he wants to ditch the double pivot in midfield.

I don't think Rice/Fred nor Rice/McTominay in midfield is good enough.

I would love to be wrong on Rice though.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm just not a fan of Rice of at all from the few times I watched. I don't think he passes between the lines well enough nor do I think he's a good ball carrier from deep.

I would hope Ole targeting him means he wants to ditch the double pivot in midfield.

I don't think Rice/Fred nor Rice/McTominay in midfield is good enough.

I would love to be wrong on Rice though.

I agree with this.

I only want Rice if we are ditching double pivot.

 

[Hammondo]

I'm just not a fan of Rice of at all from the few times I watched. I don't think he passes between the lines well enough nor do I think he's a good ball carrier from deep.

I would hope Ole targeting him means he wants to ditch the double pivot in midfield.

I don't think Rice/Fred nor Rice/McTominay in midfield is good enough.

I would love to be wrong on Rice though.

If we are dropping the double pivot then we will need another midfielder as well as Rice

 

[Mr Smith]

To me, there are things you just have or you don't.
I don't think we should compromise on quality. Whoever are DM of choosing is should be someone that is creative. I don't think Rice is that player.

I think my worry is that player simply isn't available in the market right now so we'll settle for someone like Rice. For me we're looking for a Casemeiro or a Fabinho and I just can't think of a player in the market who is even close to that level.

My worry with Rice (as well as other options like Ndidi and Bassouma) is that while they're great ball-winners, they don't strike me as having the ability to break the press either with their passing or capacity to turn out with the ball at their feet. But we can't not upgrade on Scott and Fred. Using one of them would be OK, but with both they're just so limited.

 

[eire-red]

I really hope we don't sign Rice. For the money being touted, you want the finished article that's going to boss the midfield. All the top CDM's are so much better on the ball than Rice, I don't see what he'll bring that's different from the mediocrity that Fred and McTominay serve up to us on the ball?

I would rather spend that money on the likes of Neves and Camavinga, they probably wouldn't cost much more combined than Rice will go for, and he's just not worth it in my view. He's nowhere near as good as Fabinho, Casemiro, De Jong, Kimmich, Verrati, Rodri, Fernandinho (even at 35) but we'd end up paying top dollar for him.

I hate the idea that we can compete at the highest level with midfielders who aren't good enough on the ball. It's just not the case whatsoever, regardless of whether Rice will play in a pivot, holding midfielder, destroyer or whatever you want to call him. It's painfully obvious all season that we need someone who can start attacks from deep, and Rice is not the answer to that.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I really hope we don't sign Rice. For the money being touted, you want the finished article that's going to boss the midfield. All the top CDM's are so much better on the ball than Rice, I don't see what he'll bring that's different from the mediocrity that Fred and McTominay serve up to us on the ball?

I would rather spend that money on the likes of Neves and Camavinga, they probably wouldn't cost much more combined than Rice will go for, and he's just not worth it in my view. He's nowhere near as good as Fabinho, Casemiro, De Jong, Kimmich, Verrati, Rodri, Fernandinho (even at 35) but we'd end up paying top dollar for him.

I hate the idea that we can compete at the highest level with midfielders who aren't good enough on the ball. It's just not the case whatsoever, regardless of whether Rice will play in a pivot, holding midfielder, destroyer or whatever you want to call him. It's painfully obvious all season that we need someone who can start attacks from deep, and Rice is not the answer to that.

He’s way better than McT & Fred on the ball. He’s not worth the money touted, but English/PL/United tax all apply.

 

[cyberman]

He’s way better than McT & Fred on the ball. He’s not worth the money touted, but English/PL/United tax all apply.

Not way better, not at all

 

[OrcaFat]

Not way better, not at all

I have to agree he is somewhat better than each of them at most (but not all) things.

Paired with either of them, he would improve us, if played as a 6 with McT or Fred as an 8, in broad terms.

Finishing second shows we are not miles away now. Granted, it’s a fairly big step to start delivering the consistency of City (or Liverpool the year before) but really we are looking at any marginal improvements as being worthwhile.

CM especially in defensive areas has been a weakness. A little more nous, composure and leadership in there will yield a lot of gains over the course of a season. It won’t be spectacular but could be worth 10 points, easy.

 

[Judas]

If Chelsea want him and Roman approves the deal this time that’s that. Slap in the face to Lampard though.

 

[Devil may care]

I'd heard he was a Chelsea fan and best mates with Mount, but I didn't realize he was in their academy until he was 15.

 

[Idxomer]

Hopefully, Chelsea signs him.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

If Chelsea want him and Roman approves the deal this time that’s that. Slap in the face to Lampard though.

Haven't they already got Ziyech, Werner , Chilwell and Silva and where interested in Havertz when Lampard was moaning about Rice?

 

[croadyman]

I'd heard he was a Chelsea fan and best mates with Mount, but I didn't realize he was in their academy until he was 15.

Yeah just maybe these links to Chelsea will send out loud alarm bells to actually push look outside of him and the Premier League in general, hasn't been concrete links to anyone else in this position and it's worrying to say the least. Do think there could well be something in what Romano was saying about a CDM hinging on what happens with Pogba & Donny.

 

[cyberman]

I have to agree he is somewhat better than each of them at most (but not all) things.

Paired with either of them, he would improve us, if played as a 6 with McT or Fred as an 8, in broad terms.

Finishing second shows we are not miles away now. Granted, it’s a fairly big step to start delivering the consistency of City (or Liverpool the year before) but really we are looking at any marginal improvements as being worthwhile.

CM especially in defensive areas has been a weakness. A little more nous, composure and leadership in there will yield a lot of gains over the course of a season. It won’t be spectacular but could be worth 10 points, easy.

But signing a DM isnt adding nuance, its changing how we play. What use is Rice when Maguire and another are stepping beyond him with the ball?
We also play 4-2-3-1 and in that formation neither midfielder can be a sitting DM. In a 4-3-3 we would use Rice but thst isnt how we play. We need better versions of Fred and McTominay, not a Declan Rice.

 

[Robindinho]

To the Bissouma thread.

 

[Adisa]

There's no point having a scouting department if you're paying stupid money for Declan Rice.

 

[Devil may care]

Yeah just maybe these links to Chelsea will actually push us to look outside of him and the Premier League in general, hasn't been concrete links to anyone else in this position and it's worrying to say the least. Do think there could well be something in what Romano was saying about a CDM hinging on what happens with Pogba & Donny.

Given how we operate it's possible but doesn't make any sense as Pogba isn't a DM and we have been playing him LW, and Van de Beek barely plays at all and when he does it's usually as a #10.