I haven't seen him but doesn't Locatelli do what Rice does but with better passing range and much cheaper
Declan Rice
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People are missing what rice does compared to what Fred and mctom do.
Fred is a tackler yes, but not a sitter, he runs all over the place. Rice will hold his discipline.
McTominay is a box to box number 8 not a defensive number 8. People lump him and Fred together, but it’s only because he also sticks his foot in and helps out
If we want a pure DM then Rice is a good option IF we can negotiate a good deal throwing lingard in
Fred is a tackler yes, but not a sitter, he runs all over the place. Rice will hold his discipline.
McTominay is a box to box number 8 not a defensive number 8. People lump him and Fred together, but it’s only because he also sticks his foot in and helps out
If we want a pure DM then Rice is a good option IF we can negotiate a good deal throwing lingard in
This.
I would love to see the teamperformance with Rice as the sitting midfielder. Our options in front of him becomes very interesting as well.
Exactly.
I feel like people get scared of Rice because he isnt this passer Carrick was or even the Phillips guy is from Leeds.
Even if we miss that - it doesn't mean we exactly have what Rice would give us either; that shape and positioning of a CDM protecting the players behind him aswell as in front of him.
I feel like Ole knows what he is doing - Rice is something we miss in the squad and Ole will bring back/ test players like Garner/Hannibal/even that Norwegian CM for the other playmaking ability.
However, its clear that Rice is that no nonsense CDM that is able to defend his area by sticking to one area of the pitch - not run around chasing after the ball. Its actually quite rare to find.
I don't believe we need a pure DM and have never bought one before. And Solskjaer's preferred play style doesn't necessarily require one. I posted tweets a while back which stated that Solskjaer wants a midfielder who can play both the #6 and #8 roles, which makes sense if one wants to adopt a high tempo, fast transition play style, whilst also providing a counter pressing option along with overloading opposition defensive zones.
This team needs a player in the double pivot who will come in and provide a level of creativity that will bridge the gap between us and the best teams in Europe. A player who will provide craft/guile and a high level of line breaking ability whilst also being a help in defending his defensive zone in front of either the LCB or the RCB and also providing a counter pressing option. This profile of player doesn't exist in our first team. Hannibal Mejbri or Isak Hansen may turn into that type of player but IMO it would best if we focused on signing a Scholes rather than a Keane as things stand. Keane by the way was a box to box player too.
This team needs a player in the double pivot who will come in and provide a level of creativity that will bridge the gap between us and the best teams in Europe. A player who will provide craft/guile and a high level of line breaking ability whilst also being a help in defending his defensive zone in front of either the LCB or the RCB and also providing a counter pressing option. This profile of player doesn't exist in our first team. Hannibal Mejbri or Isak Hansen may turn into that type of player but IMO it would best if we focused on signing a Scholes rather than a Keane as things stand. Keane by the way was a box to box player too.
I agree with the requirement. Garner is a lot further along the experience road than either of the two kids you mention, and I think Mejbri is far more of a 'Pogba' type than Scholes. The Norwegian could be eventually but he is sometime off that stage. If we got another flexible midfielder along with Garner's return I think the squad would a lot better balanced ( plus a left footed central defender).
Rice would be a great edition but I suspect it wouldn't change how we set up. I think it will be Rice Scott/Fred. Rice hasn't got the athleticism or pace to be able to cover on his own, based on how we currently set up
Mejbri was a box to box #8 at Monaco. He's also a player that has a huge appetite to win the ball back. I'd say he's quite different to Pogba and IMO a bigger talent than Garner.
But having said that, I would hope we don't wait in the hope of seeing someone come good, and go out and sign a metronome rather than a combative type like Rice.
Keane is a complete package midfielder, he can dictate the midfield and also defending. Sure, his passing is not Scholes but he's still a very good passer and can play a progressive passes through the line, he's a press resistance midfield and can control midfield. The way how you think of Keane sounds like he is Fletcher or Henderson.
We have Pogba as our wide playmaker (recent matches) and Bruno as our advanced playmaker. None of those two are runners like VDB or Lingard, those two prefer to get involve in build up play mean deeper playmaker like Scholes probably won't be as effective as Keane. Thus, why Keane would have provide more balance for our XI vs Burnley, Roma & Spurs.
However, if we don't play Pogba but we play Rashford & Greenwood on wide instead, then Scholes probably more effective than Keane. Because Rashford & Greenwood don't get involve in build up play like playmaker. Beside, Ole has said before in his interview, if there is one player that he can take from the 1999 team into this current United team, it would be Keane.
Either way, whether it is Modric type of midfielder or someone who sits like Rice. I think whichever we sign will still improve our XI. I understand why we need Modric type because we have no playmaker/technical player in our double pivot but I also understand why we need Rice. Just like the poster above mentioned, none McT & Fred are sitter, Fred is more of a tackler, pressing machine midfielder, his defensive style is to prevent the ball to reach to dangerous area. But once it reaches to dangerous area, that's where you need a sitter like Rice to win it back and recycle the ball.
Rice & Fred pair will be similar to Matic & Kante pair at Chelsea when Conte won the league in 16/17. McT is more of a box to box, he's similar to Soucek. And beside, I have my high hope on Garner as our deep playmaker and I think pair of Rice & Garner in double pivot has potential together.
The issue with assessing a potential Rice transfer is that a lot of the qualities we'd be signing him for are difficult to measure from afar. Be that the positional sense mentioned above, the impact it would have on the structure/plans for our team or even how much the 22 year old can still improve. Those aren't really things that can be measured by comparing stats or just watching a few games.
I'm sure he's good enough to play in the right top side. I'm also sure he'll be very expensive. But I have no idea whether he'd be the right signing for us.
I'm sure he's good enough to play in the right top side. I'm also sure he'll be very expensive. But I have no idea whether he'd be the right signing for us.
Not convinced Rice is a 'sitter' though. I'd say he's more a better version of Scott and Fred combined. If we are to upgrade, I think we need proven World Class ability. We need someone whose played CL football and challenged in their respective league. For me Rice is the midfield version of Harry, looks better in his team and England shirt, but when he gets here, just looks like a bit of an upgrade to what we already have....
Keane was a defensive box to box midfielder who was more in the mould of a Vidal than a Xavi or Scholes. And I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion I'm making him sound like Fletcher or Henderson which is laughable.
Its got to be Camavinga if he’s going for 40 million and we are selling Lingard. It would almost be rude not to.
I get Longstaff vibes off him for some reason - horrendously overrated and overpriced. Would be worth a 30mn pound investment but nothing more
Camavinga would be the right profile of player, which would help us impose our game in central areas. But we'd have to be patient due to his age.
He's a regular English international/future captain who has West Ham pushing for the CL. You might value him at 30 but I’d say he’s closer to Maguire money. He’s a far better player than longstaff. I don’t think he’s exactly what we need though.
I suppose none of us know for sure, I just think rice is better than we think. Personal opinion off course.
time will tell if we actually go for him and sign him too
And by the time he’s matured we’d have to rebuild some of our team again. I’m convinced he’s obsessed with madrid anyway
Why? Totally different
Like most things on here I guess. I'm in no doubt Rice is a good player but at 22, I think we need proven World Class ability in any of our signings. We haven't got the luxury of City to be patient like they have done with Foden and nurse the talent incriminatory through.
I dont get how Pogba, Camavinga and Bruno Fernandes can play in a midfield 3 without us getting completely run down
The rumour mill is saying Bayern or the PL. I understand he’s not fully ready but we could also do with lowering the age of the cm options. Matic is done. Fred is 28. There’s room for Garner and Camavinga there next season, the only problem is will Ole play them enough next year. Camavinga for 40 and wait a year or two for him to naturally take over is the clever deal in my book. Future France regular. His price could double easily. If he flops we are always going to get most of our money back. If we pay 60/70 for Rice and he’s good but not great then that’s that
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Fernandes doesn't play in midfield.
Like said, I've got 'Harry' vibes about Rice. Trust me, if Scott was wearing a West Ham shirt, he look different too. Lingard looks better in a West Ham shirt for good reason and people underestimate the pressure and expectations of playing for truly big clubs!! Rice is a Utd player, just not sure if the timing is right as we need experience more than potential at mo....
Keane is not Vidal, he is more Kimmich but physically on steroid. The fact you think he is Vidal is where you are wrong and confirmed my conclusion. If anything Fletcher is more identical to Vidal.
Can Pogba and Camavinga play in a double pivot?
Owen Hargreaves was a pure out and out defensive midfielder.
I think if Rice did a Maguire we’d be absolutely laughing. The only problem I have with spending that kind of money is that the player should be close to the finished article. We are paying world class money for a developing player. I have to say at this point in time whoever the scouts go for I’ll happily give the benefit to. Our transfers are much more likely to succeed these days.
Rice is better than McFred though and he'd be a goód signing if we could get him for a reasonable price. But I don't believe it's possible to sign him for a reasonable sum from West Ham.
Rice - Camavinga/Neuhaus, double pivot would be potentially very good. But I'd rather see us prioritize either Camavinga or Neuhaus as things stand.
Rice - Camavinga/Neuhaus, double pivot would be potentially very good. But I'd rather see us prioritize either Camavinga or Neuhaus as things stand.
Still personally think we'd be so much more solid with Rice than what we currently have. While we've been absolutely incredible at turning things around this season, history suggests falling behind every other match isn't a great strategy. The number of goals we concede that feel 'stupid' or 'sloppy' is staggering, and I really think having a desciplined, dedicated defensive resource there would transform us.
If you think about, we're the only 'big' team that doesn't. Casemiro, Fernadinho, Kante, Fabinho, Ndidi, Busquets etc. We have Fred. Who we all kind of have huge affection for, but literally 9/10 matches are also screaming at him for being out of position, not making simple passes and so forth.
Now, if Ole would still insist on playing a double-defensive pivot even with a defensive player, that might negate his value. But realistically it could really transform us.
If you think about, we're the only 'big' team that doesn't. Casemiro, Fernadinho, Kante, Fabinho, Ndidi, Busquets etc. We have Fred. Who we all kind of have huge affection for, but literally 9/10 matches are also screaming at him for being out of position, not making simple passes and so forth.
Now, if Ole would still insist on playing a double-defensive pivot even with a defensive player, that might negate his value. But realistically it could really transform us.
I read in several sources last week he has his heart set on Madrid
Your profile says you're 27 years old. And when we signed Keane you weren't even born or were a few months old.
There were many games in Europe where our midfield including Keane struggled against teams who were adept at retaining possession. The likes of Redondo for Madrid and the Bayern midfield at the time comfortably won midfield battles against us. So try not to argue just for the sake of arguing.
What role was he deployed in the 2008 Champions League final? If he was a pure out and defensive midfielder then he would've been deployed in a deeper role.
Very good post.
Its always been Madrid linked but they are skint. If it was any other time I reckon he’d have signed for Madrid already. I don’t think they will match the PL clubs if there is a desire to bring him to England as a starter. the agent has said publically they are very interested in the PL. I reckon we will end up with either Rice or Camavinga to freshen up the middle and Sancho for all across the front. I’m not getting sucked into full muppet mode but I can see us making stronger signings for the first 11 this year. At least I hope we do.
In style, perhaps. A massive downgrade in quality.
Keane didn’t boss everyone in the CL that would be impossible. But he did boss everyone in the PL
Completely agree mate. I'm also not sure how the particular conversation in question went down the route it went down.Keane didn’t boss everyone in the CL that would be impossible. But he did boss everyone in the PL
I think Fred is this seasons scapegoat. I don't think you get to second or finals with a poor midfield. I think we ignore what he does well and look forensically at the times he doesn't. When we don't win or play well, Scott and Fred and the go to players. They have contributed to our success, but I acknowledge may not be good enough for the next level. That said, they aren't on their own, and I'm not sure Rice is the next level either.
Partey went to Arsenal, and whilst injuries haven't helped, not sure he was as good as people thought either.....
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