Time to name and shame
120 million for the blandest option on the dinner plate!
Declan Rice
- Thread starter andersj
- Start date
Time to name and shame
Yeah Fergie would have signed him years ago I'm sure of it.
But is your midfield £100 million pounds better than last season?
If your objective is to improve your defending, yes. Similar profiles are either not moving (Rodri, Tchouameni,...) or not there yet (Caicedo, Zubimendi...)
If you need to score more goals, probably not.
He's so good Arsenal have 6 points less than at the same stage last season..:
https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2022-2023-spieltag/18/
It's also worth nothing, that if City win their game in hand they'll be only 3 points behind rather than the 4 last year after 18 games. Unfortunately it's Liverpool who have relatively improved a lot since last year...
Arsenal are still top of the table, and you can't improve on that. Merry Christmas!
You've conceded one goal less than this time last season. You've also scored 9 less. It's a team game so obviously that can't be put down to just him. But statistically and on the eye test is there much difference to last season?
I like Rice, wish we had him, but those who have decided 18 games in that he's been a £100 improvement are falling for media hype. Or simply just want it to be true.
I guess there isn't "much" difference but we were really good last season and a lot of people said we'd had our moment. Teams play differently against us this year vs the first half of last season (which is why we've been popping teams 6-0 in Europe and grinding out wins in the league). Rice is also a long-term investment, i.e. not just for this season - a much better idea than signing Casemiro, for e.g.
I love him, he's amazing.
Exactly this. I remember saying on here last season that whether you rate Declan Rice had basically become a litmus test of whether you knew anything about football and being attacked by 20 angry pitchforked CAFers telling me how overrated he is and only Manchester United would be dumb enough to spend big on him. Incredible footballer. Thank feck we have Amrabat though.
True he is a long term investment. Financially a better acquisition than Casemiro.
But before declaring he's definitely worth £100 million I think Arsenal have to win a few things. Or at least visibly improve on the pitch. Hasn't happened yet.
So far it's been £100 million to tread water.
Show me where I have gone back on said opinion?
He's so transformational Arsenal is a whopping 6 pts worse off compared to last season and WH has improved, you know who is a 100m midfielder with 100m performances? Bellingham.
correct
Arsenal had Xhaka - Partey manning the midfield last season. This year theres only Rice. Still just 1 point off of equivalent fixtures last season. Also no CL last season.
If that's the bar we'd better just leave it for two or three years.
It is strange how much more people are fixating on Rice's fee than Moises Caicedo, who was £10m more and been crap.
Rice is just muchh more talked about, a media darling. The vast majority of the talk is positive. It's been decided that £100 million is almost a bargain.
But yeah I think it should be left for two or three years before judging. Rather than 18 games where nothing has actually been achieved yet.
How is Rodri a similar profile? He plays a very different game.
Havertz actually has better defensive contributions than Xhaka last season
https://fbref.com/en/players/fed7cb61/Kai-Havertz
https://fbref.com/en/players/e61b8aee/scout/11566/Granit-Xhaka-Scouting-Report
He had 1 + 1 year option, so essentially 2 years. It’s the main reason why West Ham could still hold out for such a large fee.
That just shows the fallibility of stats. Xhaka knew exactly when to stay behind and when to move ahead, Havertz has spent the last three years playing striker there's no way he provides the defensive cover that Xhaka does. And lets say you believe that, it'll still be a like for like replacement for Partey who was brilliant in the first half of last season.
This is Rice's last 3 matches, go through it and see if you have the humility to change your mind. -
This is a huge difference that makes comparisons really difficult. Last season we had an amazing first half of the season which we couldn't sustain. Think Arteta has sacrificed a bit of that flair for more control this season. Last few games our attack seems to have gone up a level though. Hopefully our best football is still to come.
Injuries were the primary factor for not sustaining form though I thought?
Injuries and lack of depth played their part for sure. But we also lacked the experience to manage the pressures of a title run-in. Hopefully we've learned this season.
After a bit of an unremarkable start it feels like he's starting to find his feet and how he should function within the structure of the team. Does really well in braking up play and looks good in the defensive transitions as well. Pops up with the odd goal here and there also which adds up in the long run. Not sure if the improvement on Partey was really needed compared to other areas, but considering the latter's off-field issues the transfer is looking good. If Havertz can get a bit more involved as well I think they've done well enough over the summer window.
I do think Rice is better than Partey. And Partey is absolutely great on his day. But he's been out injured for most of this season and his absences have cost us badly in previous years.
Just talking broadly in terms of DM targets
He’s an outstanding player. I’m surprised at the vitriol directed at him.
I wonder how much of that stems from the price tag and associating those kind of figures with a dominant, dictating flair midfielder and won’t give him credit as he is stylistically quite a simplistic player.
Regardless, he’s a consistent 7/8 out of 10 weekly performer who shields his back four superbly, carries and uses the ball very effectively and, perhaps most importantly, has a transformative effect on the whole team and those all around him. Not comparing them ability-wise, but he’s the closest modern-day player to a Keane in the 90s/early 00s.
Him and Saliba have been Arsenal’s two standout performers and often compensate for the defensive frailties of Zinchenko. Made even more impressive by the fact Havertz is also more often than not, a complete non-entity in midfield (both offensively and defensively).
Rice would have been brilliant for us despite our malaise.
I wonder how much of that stems from the price tag and associating those kind of figures with a dominant, dictating flair midfielder and won’t give him credit as he is stylistically quite a simplistic player.
Regardless, he’s a consistent 7/8 out of 10 weekly performer who shields his back four superbly, carries and uses the ball very effectively and, perhaps most importantly, has a transformative effect on the whole team and those all around him. Not comparing them ability-wise, but he’s the closest modern-day player to a Keane in the 90s/early 00s.
Him and Saliba have been Arsenal’s two standout performers and often compensate for the defensive frailties of Zinchenko. Made even more impressive by the fact Havertz is also more often than not, a complete non-entity in midfield (both offensively and defensively).
Rice would have been brilliant for us despite our malaise.
So stats can only be used when it paints him in the best of lights, got it.
You Arse fans are so incredibly precious. Yes he’s a good player, and yes in hindsight getting him has been a good move because Partey spends this season crocked and if in the end you win the league then the money has been worth it, that doesn’t mean that anybody who thinks Declan Rice isn’t the best thing since sliced bread has to eat crows because he happens to do the one thing he’s good at consistently. West Ham didn’t fall apart, instead they’ve improved, and his integration has merely sustained your level, not elevating you.The Utd fans pining after him are even more pathetic, this is a team that can’t score for shite and somehow spunking £100m on a player who’s best in your last third is going to solve that?
Bit early to be blowing about him being worth 100m. It's only been a few months. Let's see where he is in a and how many trophies he has under his belt in a couple of years.
The vitriol is because people hate to have to climb down from a point they have previously defended on the internet. His profile was ideal, a big, strong, mobile, intelligent, technically capable midfielder, rarely injured, which the probability to give 7/8 years of top level play and immediately solve a long term problem. Now he is not going to do Bellingham things but he is the perfect player to give you the stability for guys like Bellingham to excel, and take the acclaim.
I don't know if he is worth 100m but he is certainly a very good, very accomplished player who shows no signs of slowing down for a top club in the league. Add that to his relatively young age and it's been excellent transfer business for Arsenal. The fact that Italy's players were astonished at him being subbed off in the Euros final says it all.
So it is a win win win for all three parties(Arsenal, West Ham and Rice) involved. He is expensive but he delivers what is expected of him. West ham took the money and improved the team. That's good business.
City must be kicking themselves for missing out. He would have been the perfect Rodri replacement/partner.
Name and shame all ye like, I'm sticking to my guns. He is shite and overrated !
It's not an apples to apples comparison of course. Last season was pretty injury free at this point whereas this season has been more injuries. A few others aren't quite as good as last year. Plus the Havertz experiment. So it's not just a case of Rice out vs Rice in. Overall, I see now way the team without Rice would be top of the table. He's definitely been an essential improvement and it's a long term investment.
Chelsea spent £400m and have 3 points less. We spent £200m and have 10 points less. Not sure what the point is.
Almost everything fell Arsenal's way last year, so as above, up to this point, it's impossible to compare. Nor would I be questioning Rice specifically even if they miraculously ended up 4th. He's genuinely consistent, and doesn't seemed phased by much from a mental perspective, minimal panicking from him.
Don't kid yourself, it's annoying as feck that he pops with these mega late injury time goals. But despite the poster above claiming they are "very different" - Pep would happily be popping him into Rodri's shoes when injured, unlike Kalvin Phillips. He'll prove to be one of those annoying bastards who's solid in any role, his mindset towards the game itself and his work ethic are as good as you could get.
Don't kid yourself, it's annoying as feck that he pops with these mega late injury time goals. But despite the poster above claiming they are "very different" - Pep would happily be popping him into Rodri's shoes when injured, unlike Kalvin Phillips. He'll prove to be one of those annoying bastards who's solid in any role, his mindset towards the game itself and his work ethic are as good as you could get.
The players added haven't added to the team from last year, all gone backwards. So far anyway.
In our case, very expensively backwards!
Except Liverpool who are better.
If Rice wanted to move north he would have gone to City where he is pretty much guaranteed to win stuff.
He wanted to stay in London where his family are, and Arteta sold him his vision.
Surely if we came knocking and he had to choose between Arsenal and us, he would choose us? We are a bigger club than Arsenal and he would slot right into our midfield knowing it's probably Case's last season here. Problem is we wasted the bulk of the budget unnecessarily on Mount - a player we don't need.
He wanted to stay in London for his family. If he didn't have issues with Chelsea, i'm sure he'd have signed for them if Arsenal didn't pay. As big as you are, some criterias are out of your control.