Declan Rice | signs for arsenal

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Ronaldinho's snakebite said:
Some off them even claimed declan rice is better than prime Sergio busquet :lol: :lol:
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Who, prove it.

Pointing out one moron post from some twitter nuffy doesn't = overriding opinion. Lest that means that all United fans think Antony is better and has a higher ceiling than Saka, because that's absolutely something I read posted on here.
 
Casemiro is superb.

Part of the reason why Rice is so much more expensive is due to their relative ages. Rice has another five or six seasons in him before he hits the same age that Casemiro was when United signed him.

That's not to say he will ever develop into a better player. But it does mean that he's got that many more seasons of good football (and maybe some development too) left in him.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Casemiro is superb.

Part of the reason why Rice is so much more expensive is due to their relative ages. Rice has another five or six seasons in him before he hits the same age that Casemiro was when United signed him.

That's not to say he will ever develop into a better player. But it does mean that he's got that many more seasons of good football (and maybe some development too) left in him.
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Unless his confidence nosedives and he becomes so poor he can't make your first team. Then you've got more seasons of bad football.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Casemiro is a proven top level winner. 5 x CL's is it. Not comparable.
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There's no doubt who is the better player but I know lots of you guys weren't thrilled about signing someone entering their twilight years for that price. He has turned out good so far, but if he starts showing his age in this more physical league sooner rather than later, no one would be surprised either. His form dipped at the end of the season, IMO perhaps partly due to his age and running out of steam. We had the same issue with Partey (also 30yo).

Nickelodeon said:
No, I can’t give an example but time will show better players who could’ve been better deals. One of the young guys at Ajax or Benfica can have a brilliant season and suddenly be identified as the next best thing. Enzo Fernandes was a 15 million player last summer. A club should be paying such a large fee for a player if they are one of the best in their positions. I don’t need to see who else is out there to know that Rice is not a 100 million player.

I could be wrong, of course, but I feel Rice’s game has many technical gaps which just can’t be completely filled. There would be players who may suit Arsenal’s, or any top team for that matter, style better. From a ball winning perspective though, Rice is a great asset. It is only his stuff when he will be asked to pass well and pass accurately, his weaknesses will come. And also unlike Partey, he also doesn’t seem to have a long ranger in him. This may be my own bias or PTSD, Rice reminds me of Maguire when he carries the ball with the agility of a tractor.

Anyways, mine is just one of many opinions on the internet. Don’t let it distract you from a job well done by your board. At least they are assertive and have gone with a plan. Any signing can be a hit or a miss. And with Rice for such a big fee, Arsenal are showing a big team like intent. Whether Rice can prove himself to be worth that money could be one of the most important stories of next season.
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I was just curious because people keep saying how badly we're overpaying (which we are, I can't disagree with that) but then can't really give other alternatives on the same level as Rice who would be significantly cheaper. As you say Enzo's value skyrocketed x10 after the World Cup when not many people would have known him a year ago.

As for Rice in particular - I think he makes up for what he lacks in technical ability with his physicality, engine and leadership qualities. He has become an anchor in the England team and is a big reason for them enjoying the most success in ages. Southgate pretty much always picks him. That's no accident. I agree his passing is not great but Arteta hasn't really got much wrong so far, and I feel that he wouldn't be so desperate for Rice if he didn't fully believe he's the right player for his system.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Who, prove it.

Pointing out one moron post from some twitter nuffy doesn't = overriding opinion. Lest that means that all United fans think Antony is better and has a higher ceiling than Saka, because that's absolutely something I read posted on here.
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Surely someone taking the piss :lol:
 
DOTA said:
Unless his confidence nosedives and he becomes so poor he can't make your first team. Then you've got more seasons of bad football.
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I guess. But his age means he will have resale value.
 
GoonerGirly said:


Surely someone taking the piss :lol:
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I absolutely hate that posts like that get highlighted by anyone, never mind media companies. Some people just aren't smart enough to realise these are not overriding opinions.
 
DOTA said:
Only if the wages you are offering him are ones mid-table clubs can afford.
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Looks like will be about £250k/week so unlikely. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a Sancho situation.
 
He is never a 100m player to me. More like a 60m player. Even with age and English tax shouldn’t go higher than 80m.
 
GoonerGirly said:
Looks like will be about £250k/week so unlikely. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a Sancho situation.
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Rice is at least proven in this league, is a club captain and is a fully fledged international prior to his signing.

I think it's a bit unfair on Sancho to compare the two, he was just a kid and he has obviously not handled the transition to a huge EPL club well.
 
I don’t think Rice will turn out to be great or to be the key player to nudge Arsenal to a league title, but I also doubt he’ll turn out as bad as Maguire. As an Arsenal supporter I would be excited. I like Arsenal’s determination in the market. This is a statement that they’re pushing for more and it should be uplifting for them.

More than the transfers of Rice, Kovacic, and Mac Allister who most of us expect to fit in and work, I’m looking forward to seeing PL known but struggling/failing* players trying to prove themselves in other teams, like Havertz, Mount, Maddison, Tielemans.

* in the sense of not fulfilling their potential yet, not because they are crap.
 
I really don't care about the fee, Rice has to perform at a top level to help Arsenal, whether his price is 100m or 60m is just a matter of number, DM is a position Arsenal need a top player in, I get that it seems too much but if Arsenal succeed as a team and Rice performs well then that fee won't matter.

And transfer fees are crazy these days anyways, we paid something close to £85M for Antony, I love Antony but he ain't worth that much, Chelsea spunked £105m on Enzo, City paid 100m for Grealish, these are now normal prices sadly
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Rice is at least proven in this league, is a club captain and is a fully fledged international prior to his signing.

I think it's a bit unfair on Sancho to compare the two, he was just a kid and he has obviously not handled the transition to a huge EPL club well.
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TBF Sancho's wages aren't his fault. United should never given him that kind of contract after being unproven at this level and in the league. As you say, he was just a kid.
Yes Rice has earned his wage I think and is one of the best midfielders in the league.
 
GoonerGirly said:
There's no doubt who is the better player but I know lots of you guys weren't thrilled about signing someone entering their twilight years for that price. He has turned out good so far, but if he starts showing his age in this more physical league sooner rather than later, no one would be surprised either. His form dipped at the end of the season, IMO perhaps partly due to his age and running out of steam. We had the same issue with Partey (also 30yo).


I was just curious because people keep saying how badly we're overpaying (which we are, I can't disagree with that) but then can't really give other alternatives on the same level as Rice who would be significantly cheaper. As you say Enzo's value skyrocketed x10 after the World Cup when not many people would have known him a year ago.

As for Rice in particular - I think he makes up for what he lacks in technical ability with his physicality, engine and leadership qualities. He has become an anchor in the England team and is a big reason for them enjoying the most success in ages. Southgate pretty much always picks him. That's no accident. I agree his passing is not great but Arteta hasn't really got much wrong so far, and I feel that he wouldn't be so desperate for Rice if he didn't fully believe he's the right player for his system.
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There are circumstantial arguments to be made here regarding Southgate who also constantly picks Maguire and Kalvin Phillips. Surely, you wouldn’t trust his judgement there. Secondly, the reason I’m not naming any other players on the same level is because I don’t know. Like I didn’t know that Enzo or Caicedo would become 80-100 million players.

And I understand your sentiment because we’ve been in the position where you think that you’re getting a 50 million player for 80 million but it’ll all be hunky dory in the long run and also there aren’t viable options in the affordable price range. We thought the same with Pogba, Sancho and suddenly new options emerge every season. And I think Arteta has got plenty wrong in the transfer market, the recency bias is clouding the memories.
 
Nickelodeon said:
There are circumstantial arguments to be made here regarding Southgate who also constantly picks Maguire and Kalvin Phillips. Surely, you wouldn’t trust his judgement there. Secondly, the reason I’m not naming any other players on the same level is because I don’t know. Like I didn’t know that Enzo or Caicedo would become 80-100 million players.

And I understand your sentiment because we’ve been in the position where you think that you’re getting a 50 million player for 80 million but it’ll all be hunky dory in the long run and also there aren’t viable options in the affordable price range. We thought the same with Pogba, Sancho and suddenly new options emerge every season. And I think Arteta has got plenty wrong in the transfer market, the recency bias is clouding the memories.
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What transfer do you think Arteta has gotten wrong?

FYI these are his most expensive signings, not including the current window obviously as we don't how they'll turn out yet.
In mil Euros €
Ben White 58
Jesus 52
Partey 50
Odegaard, Zinchenko and Vieira all 35
Ramsdale 28
Gabriel 26
Kiwior 25
Trossard 24

Of that list only Vieira has not really shown his worth, and too early to say for Kiwior. He's also made big calls dumping the likes of Auba and Ozil who had become toxic.
 
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Nickelodeon said:
There are circumstantial arguments to be made here regarding Southgate who also constantly picks Maguire and Kalvin Phillips. Surely, you wouldn’t trust his judgement there. Secondly, the reason I’m not naming any other players on the same level is because I don’t know. Like I didn’t know that Enzo or Caicedo would become 80-100 million players.

And I understand your sentiment because we’ve been in the position where you think that you’re getting a 50 million player for 80 million but it’ll all be hunky dory in the long run and also there aren’t viable options in the affordable price range. We thought the same with Pogba, Sancho and suddenly new options emerge every season. And I think Arteta has got plenty wrong in the transfer market, the recency bias is clouding the memories.
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I think that's the flaw in this type of thinking. Of course, players will emerge in the next year or two but that doesn't help this window for next season. And when they do emerge, their price tag will go up accordingly. Every club wants to discover the next great player and purchase him right before he emerges for a low price. But just targeting players that might emerge always comes with greater risk. They might not adapt right away to a new league, new city, new language. Or they might never fulfill that potential.

For me, after a season in the title race and finishing second, with the club finally able and willing to spend money after 15 years, that's the time to make a statement signing and be ambitious And Rice represents the best, safest option available. Already settled in London with his family, proven in the league, at the right age, more consistent on the tail end of the season in league and Europe (albeit a lesser competition) and said to be a leader, which contrasts greatly with the off-pitch issues with the current DM. I think the club are making the right choice even if the fee is high. Of course it might not pan out as Arteta expects, but I feel the risk of that is meaningfully lower than taking a gamble on some unknown player that none of us can name at the moment in the hopes of that unknown player emerging.

I'm finally happy with the club showing some ambition and getting the manager's preferred targets. Now, it's on Arteta to deliver. If he doesn't then oh well, at least I'm happy with the ambition shown for the first time in a long time.
 
Not sure how high his ceiling is, he's not a special player IMO, but I think he has a high floor. Worst case scenario, he'll still be a solid starter for years. I guess when you add that he's English, with a leadership mentality and 24, he's always going to cost a pretty penny. Over 100M is a REALLY pretty penny. Fair play West ham.
 
GoonerGirly said:
There's no doubt who is the better player but I know lots of you guys weren't thrilled about signing someone entering their twilight years for that price. He has turned out good so far, but if he starts showing his age in this more physical league sooner rather than later, no one would be surprised either. His form dipped at the end of the season, IMO perhaps partly due to his age and running out of steam. We had the same issue with Partey (also 30yo).


I was just curious because people keep saying how badly we're overpaying (which we are, I can't disagree with that) but then can't really give other alternatives on the same level as Rice who would be significantly cheaper. As you say Enzo's value skyrocketed x10 after the World Cup when not many people would have known him a year ago.

As for Rice in particular - I think he makes up for what he lacks in technical ability with his physicality, engine and leadership qualities. He has become an anchor in the England team and is a big reason for them enjoying the most success in ages. Southgate pretty much always picks him. That's no accident. I agree his passing is not great but Arteta hasn't really got much wrong so far, and I feel that he wouldn't be so desperate for Rice if he didn't fully believe he's the right player for his system.
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30 yo is the dreadful age to start declining from a player's prime ?
 
Arsenal have now spent (after Rice) an average of £150 million - in each of the 3 last seasons - without being in the C.L so I don't see why they should be less restricted by FFP than us
 
bosnian_red said:
Good signing. He's a quality DM at a great age that fits the age profile of their team. Interested to see what they do with havertz, as they need a link between rice and Odegaard IMO like City often did with Gundogan. With havertz, timber, rice this summer, thats a great window that should let them push on from last season and be able to maintain league level of around 80 points while competing across all competitions. Think they lack the elite, ruthless scorer to push 90 points though, and nobody in their squad has that level.
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I think if you assume Arteta is all in on the WM then the summer makes a lot of sense.

-Timber can play on the right of the 3 when Zinchenko is tucked into the midfield with Rice, or he can be the FB tucked in when Zinchenko isn't playing, with Ben White on the right of the 3. Saliba central and Gabriel to his left in either scenario.

-Havertz gets to play as a #10. He'd presumably rather play on the right like Odegaard, but he still gets to play as an AM.

-Rice is just a Partey replacement.
 
Coutinho, Mudryk, Hazard, Enzo, Pepe, Pogba,Jaoa Felix, Greizmann, Lukaku, Dembele, Kepa, James Rodriguez, Fofana, Morata, vlahovic, Melo are all really lucky to not have a british passport infront of this delusional fanbase.
 
Totally worth it! Now Moyesy lad come and take Maguire and McT off our hands for £50-£60million please...You know you want to!

Seriously though £105million is a joke for Rice.
 
If they kept Rice for 10years, which is entirely feasible given his style of play, then his transfer fee would be a bargain in the end, considering how much teams pay for players who have a shelf life of 2-3 years.

That's why I think the likes of Rio and Rooney were bargains, despite their fees being high at the time.
 
So, do we think he will be given the benefit of the doubt every time he makes a mistake, or doesn't perform when needed?

Or will his price tag just never get brought up ever again, except when he has a good game and the media fawn over him and we hear stuff like "£100m bargain...", "Looks like a £100m player..." Etc etc ?
 
Skills said:
The fact that he cost more than Bellingham is a bit crazy to me
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That is what gets me yeah - this just highlights how much Arsenal have overpayed for Rice. Bellingham is 5 years younger don't forget (and also in my opinion a much bigger talent).
 
GoonerGirly said:
Yes, it's mad. Which is kind of my point - the market is crazy now. With players like Tonali/Rice, you're also paying more for their potential and how good they're generally expected to be. If things work out well for us, Rice will be in our midfield for the next decade, hopefully winning things along the way. £100mil will look like a steal then. Everyone said Liverpool were overpaying for Virgil at the time but I'm sure no one is saying that now. Hopefully overpaying for Rice works out more like Van Dijk than Maguire.
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For what it's worth, I don't think Rice will become a Maguire. The problem with signing Maguire was that he suited our immediate needs, but then once the team started to improve on the whole his skillset quickly started to lack, and we signed better players in his position in Varane and Martinez quite easily and for less money. It was terrible planning from everyone involved in that transfer to spend that much on one player.

I do think that with Rice you might find yourself in a position where your rivals have better players than him, either now or by buying the next #6/8s who start to come into their own, probably for much less than what Rice is costing you. However, I can't imagine a point where he becomes completely obsolete and you need to replace him, like we've had to do with Maguire.

Rice will probably always be a great option at the base of a midfield 3 or in a DP for many years to come, especially if he's not expected to be a DLP type player. For me he'll eventually settle as a pure DM with a decent short passing game. I know people highlight his ball carries etc, but that's for a low block West Ham and an England team that mostly swat minnows at international level. Playing for Arsenal it'll be much harder for him to be useful in the middle and attacking 3rds, except from set pieces.
 
i can’t believe all arsenal fans think he’s prime busquets.
 
Skills said:
The fact that he cost more than Bellingham is a bit crazy to me
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Not really.

Bellingham is good - but the same stuff happened with Sancho.

An English player abroad gets the hype as the best English player for looking shiny abroad.
 
This is the kind of signing Manchester United used to make under Ferguson. Think Rio, Carrick, Rooney etc. Big money England internationals, pre-prime age. As an Arsenal fan I always used to think "bloody hell that's a lot of money" but all of them went on to become key players in multiple trophy winning teams.

Rice is expensive because he's a lock. He's a cracking player, well established as one of England's best midfielders and proven in the Premier League. We will get 5-7 good years out of him at a minimum. He will strengthen a team that just finished 2nd with its highest goals tally since the Premier League began. It's OK for us to be excited.

To be honest it is an insane role reversal to be watching United fans talking about how Arsenal are spending too much on a player. Too much? I've lived through a lot of Marouane Chamakhs. I simply do not care.
 
Judas said:
Still think it’s a weird choice to go to Arsenal on the back of one good season. Great signing for them though.
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Why is it weird?

I appreciate that City are clearly the better side and are coming off the greatest season ever from a Premier League side.

But after them, who else could he have gone to?

We play in London, which is seemingly a big plus for Rice and his young family.

Plus the age demographic of our squad is currently superb. We have only one key player, in Partey (30), that's over 27 years of age - and he may well be off anyway. So the majority of our players could all be playing together for several years.
 
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