Nothing shrewd about paying £100m+ for an English international who's been highly regarded for years
He'd be a really good signing, though, but I'd still prefer Caicedo who would surely be slightly cheaper, at least, and is younger, and better.
Declan Rice | signs for arsenal
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He'd be a really good signing, though, but I'd still prefer Caicedo who would surely be slightly cheaper, at least, and is younger, and better.
We could sign Caicedo AND Macallister for the same money as Rice.
Fair points. De Jong likely isn't available, but I'd prefer a midfielder of his ilk than Rice.
Rice is an excellent ball carrier, but I feel like his passing isn't much of an upgrade on Casemiro and I worry about their abilities overlapping.
No we couldn't. Caicedo would be pretty much the same as Rice. They'd both cost £100m.
Brighton wouldn't sell Caicedo for £70m to Arsenal in january and he's signed a new contract since.
De jong was bought to replace Busquets by Barca after being managed by Ten hag. He will kill it with Rice.
By buying Rice and Kane we're buying to new captains as well, those things matters.
Rice would be absolutely adored at OT with his playing style. The new Roy Keane. Yes, I said it.
He can't be moving clubs and not go to us. Fergie would move heaven and earth to get it done.
Rice would be absolutely adored at OT with his playing style. The new Roy Keane. Yes, I said it.
He can't be moving clubs and not go to us. Fergie would move heaven and earth to get it done.
If we are looking to replace our lesser midfielders, then we will need two.
De Jong and rice I think could be got for £150 million and the fact that Rice can play as a defender aswell is brilliant. We could get around £150 million for Mctominay, VDB, Fred and Maguire also, although I know it never works like this. Sell Sancho also.
GK: De Gea
DF: Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Malacia.
MF: Casemiro, De Jong, Rice, Bruno, Ericksen.
FW: Rashford, Kane, Martial, Antony, Garnacho, Diallo.
De Jong and rice I think could be got for £150 million and the fact that Rice can play as a defender aswell is brilliant. We could get around £150 million for Mctominay, VDB, Fred and Maguire also, although I know it never works like this. Sell Sancho also.
GK: De Gea
DF: Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Malacia.
MF: Casemiro, De Jong, Rice, Bruno, Ericksen.
FW: Rashford, Kane, Martial, Antony, Garnacho, Diallo.
But this is exactly what I mean. Buying first XI player is not really scouting. For top clubs they are usually well known/established players OR youngsters with widely recognized potential. This is about getting the right profile of the player X club needs (we're not particularly good at that aspect either).
What's interesting is getting those players who are on the verge of breaking into first XI, or have potential to do it in one/two seasons. We don't usually do that at United.
Martinez and Malacia were known by ETH so he brought them here. Not club scouting. What else do we have? We brought 30+yo Casemiro and Eriksen as a freebie, fair enough, good bit of transfer business but not based on scouting. Now we're looking to splash for Rice/Mount/Caicedo.
It's another topic that Ten Hag doesn't seem so keen on giving non-senior players a chance unless they light it up like Garnacho. Iqbal and Mainoo are nowhere to be seen, he prefers to play Bruno in CM and push Sabitzer up front rather than use those two I mentioned.
I am not against getting Rice but would be good to plan ahead 1/2/3 years with some good prospects. We always seem to be chasing our tail.
That is the biggest advantage for me, because in 2 years time we can phase out Casemiro and find a partner for Rice. This is IMO the right approach.
This is also the problem I have with De Jong. We get him, pair with Casemiro (looks like he doesn't have much left in the tank) and in one season we need to look for a partner for De Jong. And that IMO will be difficult, especially if both Caicedo (always preferred by me) and Rice (still OK) change clubs.
I think getting Rice is a smart move and I think Casemiro - Rice is significantly better than Casemiro - Eriksen. In one year time we can have Rice + 1.
EDIT: For the record, I think De Jong is a brilliant player individually/in the right system. I am not sure if he's a good fit for United side. He would be paired with old Casemiro, we play low defensive line, don't press effectively as a team. He will be asked to do an awful lot of running/dirty work. I think Rice/Caicedo would be much better fit. ETH should let go this one IMO.
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We are not signing him, if we are spending 100m on a player it won't be on Beans, we'll spend that money on a Striker and a controlling Midfielder, ETH is no mug like some of you.
ETH in one of his Pressers said the English players were too expensive and over priced, we aren't signing any English players for ridiculous sums.
Quote me on this.
ETH in one of his Pressers said the English players were too expensive and over priced, we aren't signing any English players for ridiculous sums.
Quote me on this.
Daddy want want want 
Bruno is much better than Mount? Absolutely no way we should dropping Bruno, or prioritising Mount over Bruno. It's a regression. Mount doesn't make sense apart from the potentially decent fee given his contract situation.
I would assume that Bruno would be played out wide if you got both. Rice and Mount aren't going to be bench players. I suppose the realistic outcome is you get one and Bruno stays in midfield.
Why would a Major English Club ever spend money on Excellent young English player about to enter his prime , who could be mainstay of its midfield for better part of next decade why would they ever do such thing right .
Casemiro - Rice
Bruno - Mount
Eriksen - ?
He is building the future of United by learning through experienced players.
He is trying to do this with De Gea - keep him as back up/ trainer for our new young goalkeeper.
Edit: arguably even Kane & Ferguson as the rest of fanbase see it.
Bruno - Mount
Eriksen - ?
He is building the future of United by learning through experienced players.
He is trying to do this with De Gea - keep him as back up/ trainer for our new young goalkeeper.
Edit: arguably even Kane & Ferguson as the rest of fanbase see it.
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I am not so sure about it I get the feeling De Gea is leaving just a hunch .
I still think we'll get neither, for this precise reason, when we want a striker primarly.
Rice is a top young player. Cant understand how some poster are against this idea! Caceido is another great player and we can't go wrong with either. Both would cost 80-100m
I think when EtH came in you needed 1st XI improvement immediately hence Casemiro, Eriksen, Martinez etc it was open heart surgery on your first team and undeniably you've been much much better this season than last.
I think you might be being a bit harsh though, Garnacho was brought through this season, Mainoo has played a bit but he is still only 17, just the fact that your mentioning him and Iqbal as well shows there is quality there. Jurado at 17 is also highly rated and of course with Amad and Pellistri coming on I think there's decent options.
It's easy to get a bit disheartened with your own team especially as yours has been mismanaged and below par for such a long time. But if Pellistri were at Brighton along with Amad, they would have played more and United fans would be saying why don't we find people like this? The pressure of playing for a top 6 club means youth is always bought through a bit more slowly unless they are absolutely stand out like Rooney or Greenwood. Even Garnacho is still being eased in slowly.
I suppose the only time EtH has surprised me is in easier cup games when he hasn't given youth so much of a chance and gone with senior first team players, but you were in such a bad place at the beginning of this season and last season, that I presume he thought he needed experience to handle the pressure and the Carabao Cup win and the FA Cup final show that maybe he was spot on.
I think you're recruitment has definitely improved under Arnold and Murtough, though there is still quite a bit to prove.
Indeed, in fact most of our improvement came from getting those 3 players.
I named Mainoo and Iqbal just because they are part of the squad, but they might as well not be here. This season is to evaluate players by ETH so will be interesting what he does next with them, loan is probably their best option because they are surely not playing next season. Agreed about the second part of your post.
I don't know about the bolded part. This is one thing I didn't like from ETH, that it seemed like he has first XI and only injury is an excuse not to play. But maybe we don't win this Cup without them playing. This strategy almost run our team into the ground, but we will have more quality backup players next season I'm sure so not so fussed about it.
I think the obsession with FDJ will take precedence, cannot see we would be in for both, I just hope we don't spend all summer pursuing FDJ again if it is a non-starter
I think Rice has many detractors on this forum, and obviously price tags come into it, but if we take price away, if we are playing 70ish games next season, how many games would we expect rice to start, either in place of Casemiro or Eriksen? because lets face it he is in front of Fred and McT, so 3 players to cover 2 positions for 70 games instead of 2 players? there is plenty of scope for Rice to be a hugely important player for us.
Are there cheaper options, undoubtedly, are there better options? we have been searching for years until Casemiro came along, I think Rice is the next best option, with the pedigree within the prem, but I am prepared to be shot down on that. I think also you have to look at attitude, not every player is going to fit into an ETH irrespective of ability, we also cannot afford to bring in players that will become a distraction or disruption (i.e. Neymar, Rabiot), so yeah they maybe cheaper options, but I think we can guarantee that Rice will fit in in terms of attitude and profile.
I am not a great fan of all the names touted around from other leagues TBH, how many actually come to the prem and succeed, not just for Utd but across the entire league, I know the financial landscape of the prem has changed and lower teams cannot be bullied into selling the way they once were, but I remember the amount of players we used to get under SAF from within the league, and I cannot help feel that overall in terms of success it is better to spend safe money, providing we are identifying the correct prem players, which I think we have been bad at post SAF before somebody brings up Maguire
I guess it all comes down to budget, which will come down to ownership, if we are spending £150-200m to try and get a CB, striker and midfielder as a minimum then Rice's price really impacts this, if ETH has more than £200m to spend I reckon we would be crazy not to push for him.
I think Rice has many detractors on this forum, and obviously price tags come into it, but if we take price away, if we are playing 70ish games next season, how many games would we expect rice to start, either in place of Casemiro or Eriksen? because lets face it he is in front of Fred and McT, so 3 players to cover 2 positions for 70 games instead of 2 players? there is plenty of scope for Rice to be a hugely important player for us.
Are there cheaper options, undoubtedly, are there better options? we have been searching for years until Casemiro came along, I think Rice is the next best option, with the pedigree within the prem, but I am prepared to be shot down on that. I think also you have to look at attitude, not every player is going to fit into an ETH irrespective of ability, we also cannot afford to bring in players that will become a distraction or disruption (i.e. Neymar, Rabiot), so yeah they maybe cheaper options, but I think we can guarantee that Rice will fit in in terms of attitude and profile.
I am not a great fan of all the names touted around from other leagues TBH, how many actually come to the prem and succeed, not just for Utd but across the entire league, I know the financial landscape of the prem has changed and lower teams cannot be bullied into selling the way they once were, but I remember the amount of players we used to get under SAF from within the league, and I cannot help feel that overall in terms of success it is better to spend safe money, providing we are identifying the correct prem players, which I think we have been bad at post SAF before somebody brings up Maguire
I guess it all comes down to budget, which will come down to ownership, if we are spending £150-200m to try and get a CB, striker and midfielder as a minimum then Rice's price really impacts this, if ETH has more than £200m to spend I reckon we would be crazy not to push for him.
I like Rice and, unlike Mount, I definitely think he's good enough to be a mainstay of our midfield for many years. I'm not sure he's the right player to partner Casemiro, though, and nor do I think it is worth spending £100m on a Casemiro rotation option.
If we want an alternative to Casemiro, I'd suggest we'd be better off looking at Edson Alvarez (reportedly Dortmund-bound) at less than half what Rice would cost and save the big money for the #8 & #9 positions. Ten Hag knows Alvarez well and he's a great tackler, really strong aerially and good on the ball.
If we want an alternative to Casemiro, I'd suggest we'd be better off looking at Edson Alvarez (reportedly Dortmund-bound) at less than half what Rice would cost and save the big money for the #8 & #9 positions. Ten Hag knows Alvarez well and he's a great tackler, really strong aerially and good on the ball.
Casemiro needs mobility next to him. The lack of tracking runners from our central midfield is a big concern. People talk about someone who can rotate with Casemiro, we need someone next to him, that can help him in our defensive 3rd. Casemiro's positioning is fantastic, and that in itself can snuff out a lot of danger, but once his line is passed he hasn't got the recovery pace to track the runner.
You aren't gonna find many that can make a pass better the Casemiro's yesterday!
Declan Rice has that "dominance presence "......You could observe it with Zidane or Steven Gerrard. Those kind of players. Rice has it. Not only the skill. But the physical presence
I rated him ever since England reached the Euro finals under Southgate.
He was the main reason that happened.
He was the main reason that happened.
Oh yeah I definitely rate him and we probably haven't seen the best of him yet
Casemiro is capable of amazing passes but he's not a consistent good passer overall, at least not during his time here.
That’s my point. It might be a meme but premier league proven does have value.
People that think equally performing non English players in lower leagues would be a better bargain don’t realize how tough it can be to adapt.
Sometimes it can work out but not always nor often. I can speak to if the money for Rice would be worth it given other positions we need to strengthen but Rice will massively improve our team I have no doubt about it
The Basmati Busquets belongs here!
Within 6 months he would be a regular starter
Are we all back on the "Rice is amazing" tip then
Am I the only one who thinks caicedo will only cost i the region of £50 million?
Rodri is their weakest link I feel, dont rate him at all, Rice is much better.
You think they reject £70M from Arsenal a few months ago, get him to sign a new contract, just to sell him in the summer for £10M less than they sold Cucurella for?!
Stranger things have happened. That horse becoming pope.
I wouldn’t be surprised if £60-70m would do it in the summer.
They rejected £70m in January because it would have derailed their season. When he signed that new deal there’ll have been either a clause or an agreement that a similar bid would be accepted in the summer.
Yes, if I was him I’d play for my life but behind the scenes it’s fecking Brighton and we are not Chelsea, I’d be scrapping for champions league football. I think he goes for £70 million maximum unless its chelsea who buy him.
Mainoo has been out injured since March and Zidane Iqbal hasn't really stood out in u21 games. Iqbal needs a loan next season imo.
Rice seems to be in such a weird situation where the media and possibly? his club behind the scenes have rated him as an £80 million+/£100 million+ player for years and years... While posters/fans of linked clubs underrate him and make out that he isnt that good a player. He's neither. Somehow he's overrated by the media, but underrated by football fans.
I'd take him for sure, I think Casemiro would love playing with him and would score more often being released to go forward and get on the end of crosses and chances. Rice could fill in for him defensively, can run with the ball and hold off challenges and he's an underrated passer - while obviously not a creative one who will play too many final balls, he's a guy who will spread play and start moves off well more in Carrick's style.
I wouldnt want him to be our main signing/move expensive investment, but if we were spending hundeds of millions of £ and another player was the big and most expensive signing I'd take him for a similar price to Mac Allister and Caicedo
I'd take him for sure, I think Casemiro would love playing with him and would score more often being released to go forward and get on the end of crosses and chances. Rice could fill in for him defensively, can run with the ball and hold off challenges and he's an underrated passer - while obviously not a creative one who will play too many final balls, he's a guy who will spread play and start moves off well more in Carrick's style.
I wouldnt want him to be our main signing/move expensive investment, but if we were spending hundeds of millions of £ and another player was the big and most expensive signing I'd take him for a similar price to Mac Allister and Caicedo
I agree. He is also a player that never lose the ball in his own half and potentially a very good player in the build up. Maybe more suited than Casemiro to receiving the ball deep and progressing it.
McTom for 30 maybe. VDB - never ever. Fred - never ever. Maguire - maybe with a huge bit of luck. The players did their best to make sure that there won't be a huge line queueing up for their services.
Only for players from Ajax.
All in all. Way too expensive. But if a club is incompetent enough to bring this guy in for 100 million, its us (or Chelsea I guess).
He is a good player though so nothing against him but the price is crazy. Also think that some "strategies" mentioned here are faulty - "Rice could free up Casemiro" yeah right, lets just hope the player who receives his international reputation by being a DM becomes an at least equally good CM at the age of 31. Solid strategy ^^
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