I think Ronaldinhio is way overrated in these drafts. It is almost as if it was Best or Garrincha on that left wing given how people are going on about him ripping the RB to shreds. Goofy did use the width very well but he also he spent a good chunk of the time operating in the middle.
Decades Draft Tournament : Theon vs paceme
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
I'm going with pace, the gap is too large for what is actually happening on the pitch.
Bar a few hiccups along the way, I'm impressed with how he has conveyed things. Any game with a side claiming to be playing total football could quickly descend into total confusion as to who is doing what, but that hasn't been the case here.
His high line has killed him, no question, but it was bound to be part of the package all along.
Bar a few hiccups along the way, I'm impressed with how he has conveyed things. Any game with a side claiming to be playing total football could quickly descend into total confusion as to who is doing what, but that hasn't been the case here.
His high line has killed him, no question, but it was bound to be part of the package all along.
Indeed, that's why I emphasised yesterday the difference between the defending and the possession aspects of a left-back playing wrong-footed at right-back. Defensively I would expect him to be as sound as on the other flank. Ronaldinho still has the upper hand, but it's not like a hot knife through butter or anything.
He's ripping into Netto because he's a central midfielder-who played left back a few times-who is now playing right back.
He's quite blatantly ripping into him. Why isn't he? Does Netto do a lot for you as a rightback?
Ronaldinho's peak was as high as any left winger in the draft. It was far higher than Giggs's for example.
Exactly, playing a midfielder at rb in an all time draft is a disaster waiting to happen really, particularly when the oppositions main strength is their wingers.
Ronaldinhio was never a proper left winger though. Far from it. In fact when I thinj of his best goals/assists/plays, most of them came operating through the middle. As a part of front three at Barca, he often roamed to the center and at times even swapped positions with Etoo.
He certainly wasn't a proper left winger because he played as more of a playmaker from the left - he did operate from the left though.
Just think of the number of dribbles he used to do where he would run from left to centre, he could go both ways and take a fullback on the outside just as often as he would cut into the middle.
Not gonna knock your opinion because we all have them, but IMO his peak at Barcelona is the best I have seen from a left winger. It was better than Giggs, Nedved, Stoichkov, etc
2005 vs Real Madrid - Got a standing ovation from the Madrid fans he was that good.
He started as a fullback but was too good to remain one and his skillset (from what little I know) fits the definition of someone who can perform as a total footballer. I really don't think that is the problem, the problem is Ronaldinho was just too good for anyone bar the very best defenders.
I do agree his peak was higher Theon, but prime Giggs would have a field day against a makeshift high line, more so than Ronnie. It's when facing a tight defence I would rate Ronnie higher.
He didn't get a few games at left back tbf. He spent most of his early career there, it's just nitpicking when people go on about which side the full back is supposed to be, as if netto only had one foot. I also agree that Ronaldinho is overated, not just in drafts but on the caf.
He was just a better player than Giggs, against a high line or a team sitting deep it wouldn't make a difference really.
Ronaldinho could slip in passes that Giggs could never do in his prime, his playmaking is on another level and he is at least as good a dribbler.
It does of course. What the feck do you want a left wing playmaker for against that tortoise highline? His only instruction should be "Run Toothy Run".
What are talking about you nutter. Do you actually think games pan out that way?
Paceme has a slow backline that is playing a highline, that doesn't take out all the elements of Ronaldinho's game that made him a better player than Giggs. He could slip through balls into Jairzinho or Greaves in a way Giggs couldn't - you're also repeatedly ignoring the fact that he was just as good a dribbler as Giggs.
So you're be fine with Roberto Carlos at RB and Javier Zanetti at LB?
It's an all time draft, vast numbers of players are available yet you have a full back playing on the wrong side, it's makes very little sense.
Zanetti actually did play quite a lot at LB. 
Zanetti actually did play quite a lot at LB.
And Giggs plays in CM a lot, you'de still have to be mad to play him anywhere other than LW in an all time draft though.
So much is made of players in familiar roles and set ups in this draft yet we have people defending a midfielder who occasionally played lb playing as a rb, ridiculous really.
It's been said already that for a specific man-marking role the player's natural, on-the-ball side is less important. Zanetti as Aldo says was world-class at left-back / left-wing-back for Inter as well.
Netto isn't doing a man marking job from what I can see, he's meant to be bombing into midfield apparently.
Zanetti, against top quality opposition would be heavily criticised on the left in this draft, no doubt about it. Same with Roberto Carlos on the right, or Ashley Cole on the right etc etc.
Playing someone in a position they have never played before (or rarely) for the first time in an all time draft is poor IMO.
Zanetti, against top quality opposition would be heavily criticised on the left in this draft, no doubt about it. Same with Roberto Carlos on the right, or Ashley Cole on the right etc etc.
Playing someone in a position they have never played before (or rarely) for the first time in an all time draft is poor IMO.
In a team with Xavi and Pirlo facing a makeshit defensive high line I don't give a rats what Ronnie can do as a playmaker, he should be going for goal. As I said, those attributes I would really rate against a tighter defence and that would really set him apart from prime Giggs, not his ability to go on a mazy run with ball at feet.
It's a good thing Ronnie can do both things, except if you are asking him to do the wrong one.
Didn't see the bombing thing. As far as I'm concerned he is (or should be) doing a man-marking role on Ronnie. He would quite likely be complete dogshit on the ball though, unless he was two-footed which I have no idea if he was.
I see where you are coming from though but the thing is here no one is saying Netto is playing in his best role nor setting the world alight, he is just doing a specific job. Rooney at his best would play centrally but we've seen SAF shunting him to the wing if that is what the team required. In paceme's squad he is probably the one best suited to do it. Is he succeeding? Don't think so, but the fact he was a LB/MID is quite irrelevant to why he isn't succeeding.
I found it odd that's all, so many players to choose from its seems like a blunder to end up with Netto as RB IMO. Then it's labelled as 'nitpicking' if you 'go on about which side a fullback is meant to be on, as if he only has one foot' which is just ridiculous. We tend to place importance on familiarity of roles/teammates etc when voting in these drafts, a player playing where he has very rarely played before is bound to get picked up on.
Anyway, I look forward to you or gio playing Thuram as lb or something further down the line. Of course it will be fine as long you instruct him to man mark someone...
It's not the same thing with Zanetti. Zanetti can play on both flanks with equal ease, as he did at his prime and was as good. I'd never associate versatility with Giggs when talking about his peak since he was a true LW, but Zanetti at his peak displayed the same world class quality on both flanks and even at DM.
Now that would be mad, since he has performed equally well on both flanks.
Edit : Did Carlos or Cashley play on the right for a long duration and perform equally well? That's an insane comparison. Zanetti is not the first fullback equally good on both sides.
Zanetti has not "rarely" played at LB. He has played there plenty of times and done extremely well. There's no question that he would never be a problem on that side.
I think he would be, because he looks less familiar on that side, but anyway everyone can see my point, don't play players that have never or rarely played as a rb, as a rb!!
He doesn't really, at least to me he doesn't. Your point is valid but Zanetti doesn't fall into it, one of the most versatile players of his generation.
I was going to suggest you pick Zanetti at left fullback because there were some decent rigbt back options for your side I think. Definitely wouldn't have had a problem with it. Netto at right back on its own is a bit strange but in a fluid total football side it makes perfect sense in my view. The Soviets developed total football before the Dutch and Netto and Voronin were two of the first examples.
Ok enough about Zanetti, I just picked a name (and I was actually talking about swapping Zanetti and Carlos' positions if you had both, that would be madness but according to some it would be fine so long as they are man marking).
Basically fergus son. Shut up, you have no idea what you are talking about. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that my defence isn't the best, but you are just talking out of your arse and don't really have a clue about the system I've used b
Well you don't know what you're taking about 
you were talking as if Cryuff was a winger earlier!
you were talking as if Cryuff was a winger earlier!You're hardly Rinus Michels II either.
You've seen a great deal of Netto then? Tell me more about why he would be such a brilliant right back in that case, seeing as you have such a great understanding of total football and what's required to make it work.
You've seen a great deal of Netto then? Tell me more about why he would be such a brilliant right back in that case, seeing as you have such a great understanding of total football and what's required to make it work.
It would be madness indeed, no one disputes that, particularly with Carlos as his attacking play is his big plus and being wrong footed wouldn't help him in the slightest. For the record, the plan was Gerets but he got picked from under his nose that very morning while he was moving house.
I for one was more worried about de Boer on his favoured foot than Netto on the wrong one though. When I think "hopeless defending" I get flashbacks to de Boer at Barca. Dreadful. And the fact he was an arrogant cnut didn't help his case. "The new Koeman" my arse